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The original's pretty good about it. 1-3, 1-4, and 1-5 all have very non-obvious culprits at first.
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Dec 3, 2014 23:59
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If you didn't finger von Karma the second he walked into the room I don't know what to say
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Dec 4, 2014 00:03
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A Steampunk Gent posted:If you didn't finger von Karma the second he walked into the room I don't know what to say I dunno, it was the first ace attorney game, so I didn't think that they would have the prosecutor be the culprit at first. Man, when does the trilogy come out? I want to replay these
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Dec 4, 2014 00:05
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dmabels big day posted:I dunno, it was the first ace attorney game, so I didn't think that they would have the prosecutor be the culprit at first. december 9th i think
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Dec 4, 2014 00:05
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Gant was a similar character pulled off with some successful degree of subtlety but von Karma was such a smirking obviously evil psycho I took one look at him and went 'yep'
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Dec 4, 2014 00:10
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It's okay for the culprit to be obvious sometimes, imo
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Dec 4, 2014 00:11
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Gant was a similar character pulled off with some successful degree of subtlety but von Karma was such a smirking obviously evil psycho I took one look at him and went 'yep' dude did you not hear the evil organ music theme song
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Dec 4, 2014 00:12
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A Steampunk Gent posted:If you didn't finger von Karma the second he walked into the room I don't know what to say
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Dec 4, 2014 00:18
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Cake Attack posted:It's okay for the culprit to be obvious sometimes, imo oh I agree, von Karma was great Volt Catfish posted:dude did you not hear the evil organ music theme song cheerfully bumbling moreso than evil. It's called 'who's up for swimming?'
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Dec 4, 2014 00:18
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In retrospect it sounds vaguely ominous but the first time you hear it, it sounds like a jolly old dude's theme.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:23
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Gant was absurdly obvious before he even said anything. Apart from his character design and music there was also the pattern they established by that point where if one character was introduced later than everyone else that character was the culprit. e: I mean I think the important part is the process of finding out how it's them and proving it, but don't pretend that AA has ever been good at hiding who the culprit is.
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Dec 4, 2014 00:52
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Gant was absurdly obvious before he even said anything. Apart from his character design and music there was also the pattern they established by that point where if one character was introduced later than everyone else that character was the culprit. I don't know, it took me a while to figure him out at the time.  In retrospect I'd suspect him immediately because I'm familiar with the series' codes and everything. They play a little bit with that in AA:5 by the way, with Blackquill's sister (Aura ?) who's got both an ominous theme and a late appearance. It's an obvious red herring but hey, at least they try. Regy Rusty posted:It's not and never will be. However there's a really quite good fan translation available and you should play that! Yeah I heard about it a while ago but I though they'd stopped at case 3 or something, that's great news ! I don't have a flash cart though, do I have to buy one to play it ? Quest For Glory II posted:I dont want to hear about your sexual fantasies about Manfred von Karma 
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Dec 4, 2014 01:54
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Will Powers had the right idea when you cross examined him in 2-4. "No! Stop! Everyone you do this to becomes the culprit!"
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Dec 4, 2014 02:57
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Ace Attorney is a lot less "who dunnit" and a lot more "how dunnit" and about figuring a way to prove it. That said, I do wish they'd stop just showing you the culprit. At least give me a little doubt, no matter how obvious the murderer is.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:10
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Suspicious Cook posted:Ace Attorney is a lot less "who dunnit" and a lot more "how dunnit" Part of that, I think is due to how usually there are only 3-4 new witnesses in any given case, and with a few exceptions, previously established characters aren't the culprit. There's usually not a wide enough pool of characters to choose from. But when they pull it off, they pull it off extremely well.
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Dec 4, 2014 03:32
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I think you guys may be overselling the obviousness of the killers a teensy bit. I guess the first game was pretty straight with the villain being evil-lookin' and introduced later, but for the other games: Justice for All: Tutorial villain was a tutorial villain, and Acro was pretty transparent as well. Ini Miney and Morgan were suspicious, but mostly by virtue of being the only possible suspects. "Director" "Hotti" is introduced much later than them, though! Matt Engarde was suspicious in retrospect, but deff not obvious. Trials and Tribbles: Okay, Dahlia was clearly evil, and Maggey told you that Tigre did it as soon as you meet her. 3-3 is explicitly a howdunnit case. 3-2 had Desirée as a red herring and admittedly 3-5's killer showed up a day later than everyone else, but he was definitely the least expected in the series. Apollo Justice: Kristoph showed up in the last case's opening movie, and you already knew he was a villain at that point. Once he didn't show up to have some other role, he was pretty clearly it. You were also told that Daryan did it, so I guess they were aiming for another howdunnit, but whatever, nothing in that case made sense. They did try to make Eldoon a red herring, but every game up till now had a "innocent woman is totally evil" twist by its second case, and Alita was a pretty transparent case. Valant was a solid red herring in the flashback case, and the game did have a loving brilliant tutorial. Investigations: Tutorial told you who dunnit, case 2 was April May mk. V, and 3 was really lacking for viable killers as well. 4 also only really had one suspect, because detective Badd had definite "not a villain" vibes. Alba was kind of unexpected by virtue of flying under the radar, and Shih-na/Callisto was a good twist! Prosecutor's Path: Horsey was pretty obvious. Blaise Debeste was also clearly a villain, but the conflict in that case was finding a way to take down the guy who legally could fire and arrest you on a whim. Gus Takovsky/Gustavia was a bit of a weird case, since his only role outside of the very beginning/end was to basically announce that he's the killer if Katie isn't. Case 2 had a big red herring, and case 5 was pretty unexpected even if the game gave you enough hints to figure it out. Dual Destinies: First two cases told you the killer outright, and L'Belle was pretty clearly the killer even if they hadn't. He was also the only killer to be introduced late! Case 3 was pretty obvious (to everyone but me). DLC case had an innocuous killer and a red herring, but enough hints to pin the former. 4-5's killer was unexpected by most, I think. Okay, so like half the cases, less if you discount tutorials. My point still stands. 
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Dec 4, 2014 11:58
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I was spoiled that AAI2 had a mastermind. But for some reason up until the end I was convinced that it was Sebastian DeBeste. Or Ray Shields. Obviously I am an idiot.
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Dec 4, 2014 12:16
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Yeah I heard about it a while ago but I though they'd stopped at case 3 or something, that's great news ! I don't have a flash cart though, do I have to buy one to play it ?
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Dec 4, 2014 14:29
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Nate RFB posted:You can if you want. I used to use a DSTT flash cart, but it didn't work with AAI2 with the translation patch. As a result I wound up buying a new one (a Supercard DStwo) which did. However you could also emulate it, which I'm going to guess is what most people did. Thank you for the compatible cart, I usually play AA when I go to bed so an emulator isn't going to be very convenient. I have an iPad though, if that stuff is reliable ? It looks shady though so I might stick to a good old cart.
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Dec 4, 2014 15:06
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The trilogy is out on 3ds now
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Dec 10, 2014 07:59
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I'm playing Trilogy and I just reached case 3 of the first game. The colors are dull and weirdly smooth, some animations are a bit stiff, and the letters are not completely aligned in some of the textboxes. Now for my opinions on the cases: Case 1 is super easy. Sahwit is terrible at lying and Payne is rather wimpy, though I did like his screechy objections. From everything that he has done, you would think that White is a major villain, yet he went down in the second case. Is he ever mentioned after this case? Also Mia won the case, not me. Edgeworth is a huge jerk that apparently forges evidence, making wonder how he became so beloved by Dual Destinies. I guess the answer would be later in the game. I wonder what case 3 will be like?
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Dec 10, 2014 20:03
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Slightly disappointing. But yeah, that's the rough beginning of the serie alright, so the first case is of course easy.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:05
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Edgeworth was written as an unlikeable jerk in AA1 so don't feel too bad about not understanding why he's one of the most popular characters in the franchise. Takumi decided to make him likeable starting from the second game onwards, so that's where that characterization comes from.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:06
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Jazama posted:I'm playing Trilogy and I just reached case 3 of the first game. The colors are dull and weirdly smooth, some animations are a bit stiff, and the letters are not completely aligned in some of the textboxes. case three is way better, with regards to actually doing ace attorney things
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Dec 10, 2014 20:17
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The fourth case is by far the strongest of the first game.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:20
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five is cool too actually
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Dec 10, 2014 20:21
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Really, the first two cases are kinda the weak point of AA1.
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Dec 10, 2014 20:40
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Moving around Global Studios is a bit tedious. Wish I could quickly go where I want.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:19
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That's a problem Dual Destinies fixed, yeah.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:26
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The first two cases are completely different from the rest of the series, in terms of tone. Case 3 and 4 are a lot closer to the rest of the series, and case 5 was made after the trilogy was already finished and has references to the later games.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:30
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Are there glaring problems to the 3DS trilogy? I bought the first three on Wii when they came out, but I much rather have em on 3DS now since my Wii is kinda phased out. I know the 3DS version is basically a port of the iOS version, but apparently that version was actually alright aside from looking a bit off and having some animation problems. Just wanna make sure the 3DS trilogy isn't a shoddy mess.
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Dec 10, 2014 21:37
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Jazama posted:From everything that he has done, you would think that White is a major villain, yet he went down in the second case. Is he ever mentioned after this case? He's probably alluded to every now and then but not really, no, he's pretty much gone for good. That was always one of the weirdest things about AA1 and really the whole series to me; you'd think the guy who killed Phoenix's mentor would be an important character with some kind of long-term relevance but, no, he's just a one-and-done villain of the week.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:31
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There's at least a little connection to the DL-6 incident, though, and the movie made that connection even stronger.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:36
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Jazama posted:Moving around Global Studios is a bit tedious. Wish I could quickly go where I want. yeah I forgot how bad it is, especially the poo poo with the script. Waffleman_ posted:That's a problem Dual Destinies fixed, yeah. At the cost of not being able to examine things for flavor text, it wasn't worth it at all.
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Dec 10, 2014 22:53
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Waffleman_ posted:There's at least a little connection to the DL-6 incident, though, and the movie made that connection even stronger. The movie also changed White's look from glamorous America-weaboo to Ozzy Osbourne impersonator and turned him into a journalist for some reason. The movie's a really faithful adaptation though and I did like how Miike tied Case 2 more into the plot of Case 4.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:04
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The one thing about the movie I don't like is that I don't agree with the tone Miike chose. Making it more dramatic kinda ruined characters like Maya and Gumshoe.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:22
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maya was sadly enough really bad in the movie, phoenix owned tho!
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Dec 10, 2014 23:25
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Maya's character was gutted and even her big moment, rescuing the final piece of evidence from Von Karma was removed. Gumshoe was turned into some prettyboy cop. These facts alone kept me from enjoying the movie. At least Larry was great? 
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Dec 10, 2014 23:42
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The steel samurai is so amazingly cool and good. Edgeworth tells Will Powers that he's a huge fan and Phoenix calls him a liar. I'm willing to bet that Edgeworth was a fan of the steel samurai since day one, and his change of heart is actually due to being unable to pursue a case against his hero.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:15
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mabels big day posted:The steel samurai is so amazingly cool and good. Edgeworth tells Will Powers that he's a huge fan and Phoenix calls him a liar. I'm willing to bet that Edgeworth was a fan of the steel samurai since day one, and his change of heart is actually due to being unable to pursue a case against his hero. This is canon.   Well okay maybe not the last bit.
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Dec 11, 2014 00:40
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