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Femur posted:What about gerrymandering? Is that suppression or just bad system? It's different from voting suppression but it's the same sort of thing: you're deliberately leveraging the system to attempt to produce undemocratic results.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:23
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Joementum posted:The White House just announced that it supports passage of the budget agreement. No veto threat. Not much room for Pelosi now. Out-loving-standing.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:24
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zoux posted:The two things that will turn people conservative are owning property and having kids. Only the first. The second at most makes them more supportive of anti sex offender policies. Being that the first is less and less likely with millennial a we're covered.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:24
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I hate this country. I see that google has an opening for a java developer in their sweden office, maybe I should toss out a resume.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:25
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Also I don't get why Democratic states would engage in "voter suppression" under that extremely loose definition. I don't think that it's the system that's keeping the third parties down; if every man and woman in America voted, the winners would still come from one of the two major parties.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:25
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zoux posted:The two things that will turn people conservative are owning property and having kids. Having recently done both, it's only made me even more terrified of conservatism.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:26
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Mr Speaker, I support this bill. Now let me not explain why I do and just spend two minutes thanking everyone under the sun rather than actually talk about the issues.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:26
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Banner week for Obama here. Not terribly surprising since it was the Tea Party that saved us from his last godawful compromise.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:27
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Talmonis posted:Having recently done both, it's only made me even more terrified of conservatism. Give it time.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:28
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Quote of the day, "You're a good man, Santa." ~ Pete Sessions to Kerry Bentivolio.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:28
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Actually, I believe that owning property in this day in age is something to make you more scared of republicans if you know what they are actually doing, because you know that they are sabotaging the economy in any way they can and by owning property you are now one firing from possibly being unable to pay your mortgage and get your new house foreclosed upon using forged paperwork.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:31
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Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:33
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Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Sure, he's backed into a corner, but that doesn't make the result any less lovely.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:36
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zoux posted:Give it time. I didn't buy my house for the equity, or as an "investment". I bought it to have a place to live the way I wanted to. We live in a pretty integrated neighborhood with a school literally down the street. It's going to take more than home values going down when more minorites move in to get me to think tearing down the EPA is a good idea, or trust the police to be anything more than well dressed rednecks. Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Actually come out against it. Say something. Call out the bullshit. It doesn't mean you have to threaten the Veto, but actually take a loving stand for once in his life.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:37
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The next 2 years really are going to be nothing but Obama signing whatever pile of poo poo the republicans throw at him as long as it doesn't gut the ACA. Amazing.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:37
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Radish posted:Banner week for Obama here. So, Obama is saying that he would not veto this particular spending bill? What the gently caress is he thinking?! Also, is Harry Reid going to actually approve of this? Couldn't him and Senate Democrats make changes and then send it back to the lower house? Or is that being forfeited in exchange for some bullshit horse trade just so the Democrats are not quite as hosed when the new Republican Senate gets seated?
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Dec 11, 2014 19:38
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Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Even if that were his position, he could keep his loving mouth shut instead of undercutting his party's House leadership.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:39
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saintonan posted:Even if that were his position, he could keep his loving mouth shut instead of undercutting his party's House leadership. It is not necessarily clear that Peloisi opposes this - she may see no better outcome but as the House Democrats have to face elections and Obama does not, wants Obama to be the bad guy here. Remember, this deal was negotiated by someone in the Democratic caucus in Congress, who signed off on it. I don't know that that's what's happening, but you've got to remember the Democrats in Congress may not be as opposed to things in there as they'd like people to believe.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:43
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saintonan posted:Even if that were his position, he could keep his loving mouth shut instead of undercutting his party's House leadership. No, no you see Obama is unable to take a stand on anything because
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Dec 11, 2014 19:43
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Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Not be an awful person and veto the loving thing forcing republicans to cut some of this poo poo to get democrat votes.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:45
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saintonan posted:Even if that were his position, he could keep his loving mouth shut instead of undercutting his party's House leadership. Why? What does the House leadership offer him? What can they do? If the House doesn't pass this bill, where does that leave Obama? A temporary funding bill which pushes the problem into the next Congress that will go out of their way to gently caress it even more? At that point, with both houses of Congress likely passing a funding bill which is even more damaging than the current version, the inevitable shutdown won't be laid at the feet of the GOP, it'll be solely on the POTUS. Does that sound like a good idea to you? He's hosed either way, so are we, and it's because we are a terrible electorate. Boon fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 19:46
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evilweasel posted:It is not necessarily clear that Peloisi opposes this - she may see no better outcome but as the House Democrats have to face elections and Obama does not, wants Obama to be the bad guy here. Remember, this deal was negotiated by someone in the Democratic caucus in Congress, who signed off on it. She is opposed to it.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:47
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Not be an awful person and veto the loving thing forcing republicans to cut some of this poo poo to get democrat votes. They won't do that they will shut down the government and blame it on the D's and because the D's are inept that poo poo will stick to them like it didn't to the GOP.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:47
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Zeitgueist posted:Hey you wanted them to address the looming financial aid crisis, right? Well in a strange way, this will help with the financial aid crisis. I mean, it helps the same way that you stop overpopulation by nuking a city, but less student loans + more strongarm debt collection will at least close the budget shortfall. Let's just get the national debt down to 0 so we can then cut congress in half and put it in the freezer.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:48
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Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Dissolve the government, call for new elections of all executive and legislative seats. At this point just run with it, worst case is every branch being solid R, which still leaves us where we are now. Although, I'm pretty positive the president doesn't have that kind of power.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:48
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pathetic little tramp posted:Well in a strange way, this will help with the financial aid crisis. I mean, it helps the same way that you stop overpopulation by nuking a city, but less student loans + more strongarm debt collection will at least close the budget shortfall. Let's just get the national debt down to 0 so we can then cut congress in half and put it in the freezer. They also decreased funding to the IRS.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:50
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DrProsek posted:Dissolve the government, call for new elections of all executive and legislative seats. He doesn't, what the hell?
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Dec 11, 2014 19:51
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The Brennan presser opened with some Giuliani-level 9/11 talk.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:53
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evilweasel posted:It is not necessarily clear that Peloisi opposes this - she may see no better outcome but as the House Democrats have to face elections and Obama does not, wants Obama to be the bad guy here. Remember, this deal was negotiated by someone in the Democratic caucus in Congress, who signed off on it. I suspect at least 30-40 aren't very opposed to it at all. I'm really objecting to the timing more than anything else. There's plenty of time after this passes the House (assuming it does) and heads to the Senate for the White House to signal acceptance. Doing it while House Dems are still active seems like callousness at best. Boon posted:Why? What does the House leadership offer him? What can they do? The House leadership is the same party as the White House. If you're suggesting Obama should just say "gently caress everybody" and go rogue, then the next two years will be interesting, indeed. As to your second point, a lot depends on what Senate rules go into effect. If it still essentially takes 60 votes to push something through the Senate, then Obama doesn't necessarily have to be alone on a political island. It may still end up that way, as EW says, if it's more politically expedient, but it's not inevitable.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:54
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Evil Fluffy posted:This is a shocking and not at all expected move from Obama.
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Dec 11, 2014 19:56
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Khisanth Magus posted:I hate this country. I see that google has an opening for a java developer in their sweden office, maybe I should toss out a resume. You should be making every attempt to get out of the US if you're able, because there's zero chance of seeing any improvement in your lifetime. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 19:58
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Boon posted:If the House doesn't pass this bill, where does that leave Obama? A temporary funding bill which pushes the problem into the next Congress that will go out of their way to gently caress it even more? At that point, with both houses of Congress likely passing a funding bill which is even more damaging than the current version, the inevitable shutdown won't be laid at the feet of the GOP, it'll be solely on the POTUS. Does that sound like a good idea to you? This bill is pushing the problem into the next Congress, anyways. Which means that an even worse bill is assuredly going to be passed next time around. Since this is their last chance to take a stand, Democrats would have been well served by doing so here. Instead they proved they're just Republicans-lite.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:00
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When was the last time a funding bill was signed with a minimum of fuss? I literally can't remember the last time the GOP didn't take the country hostage.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:03
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Joementum posted:The White House just announced that it supports passage of the budget agreement. No veto threat. Not much room for Pelosi now. Nice! Filing away for the next time we do the "Obama is not actively bad just limited by realpolitik" dance. Remember kids, we always have the option for full communism.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:06
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Oxxidation posted:You should be making every attempt to get out the US if you're able, because there's zero chance of seeing any improvement in your lifetime.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:07
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420DD Butts posted:This bill is pushing the problem into the next Congress, anyways. Which means that an even worse bill is assuredly going to be passed next time around. Since this is their last chance to take a stand, Democrats would have been well served by doing so here. Instead they proved they're just Republicans-lite. Yeah, next September when there is less time for ongoing fuckery and a larger spotlight leading into the 2016 campaigns. And no, I'm not suggesting Obama go rogue. I'm suggesting that it is in Obama's and our best interest that this bill be passed before kicking the can to late-January and allowing the GOP to control what could be CR's surfacing every 3 months and an ongoing threat of shutdown. What the hell is Obama supposed to say that hasn't already been said anyway? People have chosen their sides and they don't give a gently caress. You guys act like people already voting against their interests are just going to go "oh yeah Obama's right, I've been so stupid these last 4 years!" Boon fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 20:08
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Rygar201 posted:Everyone who is currently pissed at Obama, what would you have him do? Veto a bill funding the government, for a year, and then get pushed in to an even worse position once the 114th is sworn in? I'm genuinely curious. Yes? Keep vetoing the bills and hit the news channels stating how Congress is refusing to fund things they've already passed and that he's not going to help them sell out the country to their corporate backers. He wouldn't do this because he's just as much of a whore as people like Boehner and if he doesn't end up to the right of HW Bush and closing in on Bush jr by the end of his 2nd term I'll be stunned. The next two years are going to be Obama signing off on GOP desires and having the Democrats take all of the blame for it. I can't wait to see a Republican win the White House in 2016 and the senate go nuclear on everything else so that we can be done with stupid claims like the Confederacy lost the civil war.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:09
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Talmonis posted:Having recently done both, it's only made me even more terrified of conservatism. Khisanth Magus posted:Actually, I believe that owning property in this day in age is something to make you more scared of republicans if you know what they are actually doing, because you know that they are sabotaging the economy in any way they can and by owning property you are now one firing from possibly being unable to pay your mortgage and get your new house foreclosed upon using forged paperwork. Grater fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 20:10
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Oxxidation posted:You should be making every attempt to get out of the US if you're able, because there's zero chance of seeing any improvement in your lifetime. The rest of the world isn't doing great either. The Anglosphere is currently heading right as fast as it can and the breaks don't work. Europe is in still politically chaotic due to economic crisis which isn't going away any time soon. The Scandinavian utopia countries are one bad election away from throwing everything they got right in the trash and joining the race to the bottom.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:10
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Grouchio posted:Wait what will this do again? And why does OBAMA support it? It prevents a government shutdown and funds the government for another year, but has a lot of poison pill riders attached by Republicans, such as allowing more investment in coal-fired power plants, increase contributions limits to political party committees, and rolling back derivatives regulations in Dodd-Frank. Obama supports it because it funds the government for an entire year, the government won't shut down tomorrow, and he thinks he will get a much worse deal when the Republicans get a 10 vote boost in the Senate and a 24 vote bump in the House. He's going to sign it because he thinks preventing a shutdown and getting a terrible deal is safer than risking a shutdown and possibly getting a worse deal in a month.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:11
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