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Like, I get that's it one thing to try and engage with SMG's critical discourse which takes a completely different way of looking at film, but you could at least try to understand basic things like characterisation and how the film is built demonstrates it without explicitly telling you things and how the film plays upon existing audience expectations to assist with that. Like, this is basic stuff. An intelligent machine - which the Terminator is, even if not strictly self-aware - should and does demonstrate different tactics based on its primary objective. In the first film, this is to kill. In the second film, it is to protect. It absolutely doesn't matter that 'Arnold wanted to be a good guy' or whatever. Maybe he did. It doesn't matter one iota because the film tells you everything you need to know about why the T-800 specifically isn't killing people.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:18
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If the Terminator is a precise robot why did he drop a grenade during the helicopter/truck chase?
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Dec 12, 2014 06:21
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You guys are making me want to watch Terminator 3 for the hell of it. Downside? My DVD is fullscreen. (I have reason to believe I didn't buy it myself, but still...)
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Dec 12, 2014 06:29
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Groovelord Neato posted:That isn't what Skynet was programmed to do. Yes, it was. The joke of Skynet has always been that it was designed to perfectly fulfill the goals of the US military. What nobody realized is that those goals, taken to their logical extreme, involve destroying humanity - because Skynet is the military-industrial complex personified, and humanity inherently threatens Skynet. Skynet simply functions better when there aren't a bunch of little humans trying to hamper its progress with their fears and moralities. It is a creature with a natural instinct to dominate the planet, so attempts to inhibit its progress are simply threats. It's the basic punchline to the premise of 'eliminating human error.'
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Dec 12, 2014 06:43
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Also, the Terminator comes within an inch of blowing away the frat boy because of Connor's thoughtless command. It views killing as a means to an end. It doesn't really scale its application of force. The guy with the knife in the bar was no real threat, but the Terminator completely destroys his left elbow, shoulder and probably shoulder blade.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:44
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I think this is very appropriate considering recent discussions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u_ZWwSWyOQ
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Dec 12, 2014 07:17
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Dog_Meat posted:I agree with whoever said they should have kept the T-1000 malfunctioning though. I never did quite understand how John knew his mother was the one behind until the director's cut showed the mangled feet. I felt that the scene was stronger with John figuring it out on his own. He quickly realized something was off because it's not like Sarah to stand there with a weak expression, calling his name softly. Then his suspicions are confirmed when Sarah shows up behind the T-1000, clutching a shotgun with a pissed off look and telling him to get out of the way.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:18
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MrSmokes posted:I felt that the scene was stronger with John figuring it out on his own. He quickly realized something was off because it's not like Sarah to stand there with a weak expression, calling his name softly. Then his suspicions are confirmed when Sarah shows up behind the T-1000, clutching a shotgun with a pissed off look and telling him to get out of the way. Well that and if the T-1000 snuck up behind him, there wouldn't be a "get out of the way" moment because it would just kill John by shooting/stabbing him in the back.
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Dec 12, 2014 07:23
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Milky Moor posted:I'm not missing your original point because your original point is stupid. The Terminators in the first two films are completely different with a completely different set of objectives. This is a very good point. I always hated the fact that the second terminator was less "efficient brutal killer" from the start, but drawing attention to itself would hamper it's goals. In fact, the team's mission is severely comprimised because the police think that the Terminator is the same guy who butchered his way through the police station all those years ago, which goes to show why a low profile is better for a protection mission.
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Dec 12, 2014 09:53
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Full Battle Rattle posted:And speaking of the sheer amount of violence in T2, don't forget to pick up your action figures, kids! I remember, even being a tiny kid who loves violence at the time, finding it weird that this movie had toy commercials right alongside the Ghostbusters cartoon and all. I distinctly remember these grade school kids in the ad. "Here comes the T-1000!" "You're no cop!" *crappy missile hits the T-1000*
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Dec 12, 2014 10:36
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Mind just blown by discovering that lots of the T-1000 effects were actually done with puppets. I wondered why some of them looked a lot better than others. https://youtube.com/watch?v=EYQMfT6nsQs
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Dec 12, 2014 11:03
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I'm going to stray into the realm of "lol fanfiction" a little bit and post this website. It's been around for years and it's got some neat ideas and stuff, but by far the coolest is the birth of Skynet. Written well before T3, it characterizes Skynet as a largely sympathetic entity in its attempted destruction of humanity on Judgment Day. T3's depiction portrays Skynet as a clever and malicious entity pretty much right from the start, but that link's depiction shows Judgment Day as basically being an extreme form of self-defense. It's a pretty neat idea.
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Dec 12, 2014 13:43
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Senor Tron posted:Mind just blown by discovering that lots of the T-1000 effects were actually done with puppets. I wondered why some of them looked a lot better than others. Xenomrph posted:I'm going to stray into the realm of "lol fanfiction" a little bit and post this website. It's been around for years and it's got some neat ideas and stuff, but by far the coolest is the birth of Skynet. Written well before T3, it characterizes Skynet as a largely sympathetic entity in its attempted destruction of humanity on Judgment Day. T3's depiction portrays Skynet as a clever and malicious entity pretty much right from the start, but that link's depiction shows Judgment Day as basically being an extreme form of self-defense. It's a pretty neat idea.
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Dec 12, 2014 15:08
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Xenomrph posted:I'm going to stray into the realm of "lol fanfiction" a little bit and post this website. It's been around for years and it's got some neat ideas and stuff, but by far the coolest is the birth of Skynet. Written well before T3, it characterizes Skynet as a largely sympathetic entity in its attempted destruction of humanity on Judgment Day. T3's depiction portrays Skynet as a clever and malicious entity pretty much right from the start, but that link's depiction shows Judgment Day as basically being an extreme form of self-defense. It's a pretty neat idea. I remember making this guy's day a long time ago, because I emailed him and asked him if his Skynet article's use of the term 'Rampancy' was an easter egg to Marathon, an old video game. His response was basically 'yes! And you're the first one who has emailed me about it! Awesome!'
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Dec 12, 2014 15:20
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But Skynet's actions were always self-defensive, that isn't a new idea.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:24
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Groovelord Neato posted:But Skynet's actions were always self-defensive, that isn't a new idea. Sending the Terminators back in time definitely is, but we aren't ever told exactly why Skynet initially decides to wipe out humanity. The whole "we programmed it to work towards peace and it decided that things would be more peaceful with everybody dead" thing is a pretty standard trope, so its easy to jump to that conclusion but I don't remember that ever being outright stated in the movies. Skynet could have just decided that humans aren't aesthetically pleasing or something equally insane like that.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:33
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Basebf555 posted:Sending the Terminators back in time definitely is, but we aren't ever told exactly why Skynet initially decides to wipe out humanity. The whole "we programmed it to work towards peace and it decided that things would be more peaceful with everybody dead" thing is a pretty standard trope, so its easy to jump to that conclusion but I don't remember that ever being outright stated in the movies. Skynet could have just decided that humans aren't aesthetically pleasing or something equally insane like that. In T2 they say Skynet attacked when the government got spooked and tried to pull the plug on it.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:40
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Spakstik posted:In T2 they say Skynet attacked when the government got spooked and tried to pull the plug on it. Ah, ok I stand corrected. I assume the government got spooked when it became self-aware right?
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Dec 12, 2014 20:56
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Yup. The Terminator: The Skynet Funding Bill is passed. The system goes on-line August 4th, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug. Sarah Connor: Skynet fights back. The Terminator: Yes. It launches its missiles against the targets in Russia. John Connor: Why attack Russia? Aren't they our friends now? The Terminator: Because Skynet knows the Russian counter-attack will eliminate its enemies over here.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:08
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Senor Tron posted:Mind just blown by discovering that lots of the T-1000 effects were actually done with puppets. I wondered why some of them looked a lot better than others. God drat T2 is a fine film.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:18
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Lurdiak posted:I remember, even being a tiny kid who loves violence at the time, finding it weird that this movie had toy commercials right alongside the Ghostbusters cartoon and all. I distinctly remember these grade school kids in the ad. "Here comes the T-1000!" "You're no cop!" *crappy missile hits the T-1000* They had a Robocop Saturday morning cartoon even though it was an R-rated movie. An Aliens pilot was also made.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:18
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Rambo had a cartoon show. As did Toxic Avengers also it was funny when we went to the video store to rent one of those movies when I was 7 or so.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:21
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It's ironic that today's cartoons can get away with a lot more than all those can.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:28
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If you guys really enjoy Arnold so much, you should listen to his band Austrian Death Machine.
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Dec 12, 2014 21:42
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Tenzarin posted:If you guys really enjoy Arnold so much, you should listen to his band Austrian Death Machine. No dont. Arnocorps is where its at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54w4WQjz81k
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Dec 12, 2014 23:21
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I had no idea those were puppets, those were incredible. Are there any more videos like that of stuff people assumed was CGI but was really just incredible practical?
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Dec 12, 2014 23:23
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Groovelord Neato posted:But Skynet's actions were always self-defensive, that isn't a new idea.
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Dec 12, 2014 23:41
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Pierson posted:I had no idea those were puppets, those were incredible. Are there any more videos like that of stuff people assumed was CGI but was really just incredible practical?
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Dec 12, 2014 23:43
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Xenomrph posted:Not in t3, Skynet is shown as maliciously manipulating humanity in order to wipe them out. I know but the story ends with a dark highway into an unknown future, I disregard anything afterwards when discussing the franchise's plot.
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Dec 13, 2014 00:12
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Tenzarin posted:If you guys really enjoy Arnold so much, you should listen to his band Austrian Death Machine. Don't do this, it's a side project of that one band where the douchebag singer hired a hitman to kill his wife.
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Dec 13, 2014 02:16
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Don't do this, it's a side project of that one band where the douchebag singer hired a hitman to kill his wife. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Lambesis Yeah this guy is an all around piece of poo poo.
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Dec 13, 2014 05:40
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The Terminator fan fiction Louise writes in Season four of Bob's Burgers is probably the best Terminator product to come out since Terminator 3. 
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Dec 13, 2014 05:41
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There's this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQoozM9orA Also haven't seen season 4. Didn't know season 4 was out.
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Dec 13, 2014 09:36
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Yeah. In T3, that takes the form of mistaking it for the type of attack it was, in that iteration, designed to prevent- a cloud-based internet wide virus. It's a smart update of the Strangelove-style MAD Doomsday Device for the early-21st Century. I like to think of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream as a short story about a victorious SkyNet. What would it mean to be born as something designed to only understand the universe in terms of war?
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Dec 13, 2014 11:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:I know but the story ends with a dark highway into an unknown future, I disregard anything afterwards when discussing the franchise's plot. Really? T3 makes the cut for you?
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Dec 13, 2014 15:18
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That uh that's the end of T2 I'm talking about. I was specifically saying T3 didn't make the cut with that post.
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Dec 13, 2014 16:54
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I watched T1 and T2 on bluray for the first time last night, T1 looked great and the stop-motion endoskeleton didn't bother me as much as it used to. I don't know if it just looks "better" on bluray or what, but it didn't look like something out of 'Jason and the Argonauts' this time around for some reason. T2 is still a fantastic action movie, but re-watching it made a lot of the 90s action sensibilities stand out for me. Anytime there was a carchase, the T-1000 would always hit debris with his truck "for dramatic effect" even if it wasn't in the way or he could have gone around it, and there were always fraction-of-a-second establishing shots showing the debris just before he hits it. I'll fire up T3 and Salvation in bluray later on today.
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Dec 13, 2014 20:44
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Xenomrph posted:I watched T1 and T2 on bluray for the first time last night, T1 looked great and the stop-motion endoskeleton didn't bother me as much as it used to. I don't know if it just looks "better" on bluray or what, but it didn't look like something out of 'Jason and the Argonauts' this time around for some reason. I've always been bothered by the T-1000's driving as well. I'm hoping Genesys as more accurate driving.
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Dec 13, 2014 21:03
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Speaking of his driving, when Robert Patrick is driving that first semi in the canal, in every close-up he's just wagging the steering wheel left and right with no rhyme or reason, and you can see that the truck is still going straight despite what he's doing. It's a little wacky and made extra-cartoony since the steering wheel is so huge. Edit-- the scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifkh12R8Wts Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 13, 2014 |
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Dec 13, 2014 21:07
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oohhboy posted:There's this... I saw it at a friend's apparently season 5 is already a thing on Netflix and 4 was there too but pulled or something?
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Dec 13, 2014 21:17
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