Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-CDRTB-5445

quote:

Just one day after the Bank of Canada sounded its loudest alarm yet over inflated home prices and the related risks posed by high household debt loads, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce published a poll that found only a minority of Canadians are worried about their debt.

�Contrary to concerns about debt levels across the country,� says CIBC, �more than 8 in 10 Canadians are not worried about their level of personal debt with the vast majority (85 per cent) taking steps to reduce what levels they have.�

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report...?service=mobile

quote:

�Low interest rates may be creating stronger incentives for some home buyers to supplement their down payments through additional borrowing, thereby allowing for lower monthly payments, because they can avoid mortgage insurance premiums and obtain longer amortizations.�

On this point, the central banking suggested that �financial system vulnerabilities related to household leverage and indebtedness are increased.�

It�s hard to pin it down, the Bank of Canada said, but �anecdotal evidence suggests that this practice is becoming more common in the context of a reduction in the maximum amortization period for insured mortgages from 40 years to 25 years, and as premiums for mortgage insurance rise.�

Lenders, in this case, probably wouldn�t be federally regulated because borrowing for a down payment is a no-no at that level.

It�s likely that this is modest in nature.

�It is reasonable to assume that given the new environment we might see some increase in borrowing towards a larger down payment,� said Benjamin Tal of the CIBC World Markets economics department.

�While there is no doubt that alternative lenders are playing a more significant role in financing housing activity (directly via the mortgage market and indirectly via credit toward down payments), the share of those players in total activity is still very small � but it is rising,� he added.

�So I think that the bank is right regarding this phenomenon, but I think the actual magnitude is still relatively small.�

# ? Dec 12, 2014 20:02

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:55

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...rticle22060567/

quote:

Oil, markets sink
As analyst Alastair McCaig puts it today, �panic is beginning to set in� across financial markets as the collapse in oil prices deepens.

His comments came as equity and currency markets faced fresh turmoil, with crude slipping further below the $60-a-barrel mark on a new price forecast and more economic signals from China. Iran�s oil minister added fuel to the fire with his suggestion that there may be $20 to go still where crude is concerned.

Stock prices sank, while the Canadian dollar plumbed new depths.

# ? Dec 12, 2014 20:48

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report...?service=mobile

quote:

The Bank of Canada has once again warned that high levels of household debt “present a significant risk to financial stability.” But rising consumer and mortgage debt remain major drivers of the economy This is not as it should be.

In a textbook capitalist economy, growth should be led by investment. Credit financing of investment increases demand in the economy, while also raising productivity. This sets the stage for higher wages, higher levels of consumer spending, and further rounds of investment.

The reality, however, is that the Canadian economy has been driven much more by the growth of household debt than by business investment for the past fifteen years. Data from the National Balance Sheet Accounts show that, since 2000, household debt has risen from 60 per cent to 94 per cent of gross domestic product. This has helped finance a housing boom and buoyant consumer spending.

Household spending has risen at a much faster rate than wages and incomes. This shows up in the frequently cited ratio of household debt to disposable (after-tax) income, which now stands at 166 per cent, up from 110 per cent in 2000.

Those who are not unduly concerned about growing household debt note that net worth has increased even more than debt, due mainly to rising house prices. And, given near record-low interest rates, the percentage of household income required to service debt has fallen to a very low level of just 7.1 per cent.

One problem with this benign view is that, as noted in recent reports on the Canadian economy by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development and the International Monetary Fund, elevated house prices are vulnerable to a significant correction. They have increased much faster than household incomes since 2000, and now average five times income compared to three times income back in 2000.

Another problem is that a significant proportion of household debt is in the form of consumer credit, which now amounts to 47 per cent of household disposable income. Unlike mortgages, this kind of debt is not balanced by a long-term asset.

Last and most importantly, averages can be very misleading since net worth is distributed highly unequally. Data from the recent Survey of Financial Security show that the top 10 per cent own almost one half of all net worth, while the bottom third own only 1 per cent of the total since their debts cancel out assets.

Younger households on modest incomes are often highly stretched financially, have little or no equity in their homes, are often carrying high levels of credit card debt, and are saving very little for retirement. When housing prices fall and/or interest rates rise, they will be highly vulnerable. By contrast to households, non-financial corporations are in good financial health, and have been net lenders to the rest of the economy in recent years. Credit market debt of non-financial corporations is 58 per cent of business equity, a ratio that has been stable for a decade, and these corporations are currently sitting on $656-billion of cash or what former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney referred to as “dead money.”

While the Bank of Canada has consistently said it hopes to see a “rotation” of demand from households to corporate investment, household debt continues to rise, driven by low interest rates and generally stagnant incomes. CIBC has noted a recent acceleration of consumer borrowing.

As the old saying goes, when something cannot go on forever, it won’t. Households cannot continue to borrow so as to spend more than they earn, and house prices cannot rise indefinitely compared to incomes.

We risk a major shock to the economy when the day of reckoning arrives, not least because business investment is unlikely to grow rapidly at a time when household demand is weak.

Some part of the economy, be it households, corporations or governments, has to be borrowing at any given time so as to put savings to use and to maintain overall demand. If households are stretched and business are reluctant investors, it will be up to government to save us from a downturn through increased public investment.

Andrew Jackson is an adjunct research professor at the Institute of Political Economy at Carleton University, and senior policy adviser to the Broadbent Institute.

# ? Dec 12, 2014 22:12

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadas-home-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-a-year/article22061271/

quote:

Canadian home prices fell in November from October, their first monthly decline in a year, the Teranet-National Bank Composite House Price Index showed on Friday.

The index, which measures price changes for repeat sales of single-family homes, showed prices fell 0.3 per cent nationally last month. They were still up 5.2 per cent from a year earlier.

Mazen Issa, senior Canada macro strategist at TD Securities, said the data showed �a necessary breather� in this year�s run-up in prices.

�But we do not foresee a protracted period of lower prices, with interest rates mired near historical lows and no inclination from the Bank of Canada to use monetary policy to reduce excesses in the housing market,� Issa said in a note to clients. �The more likely path for home prices in 2015 is to grind higher yet again.�

Analysts do not expect Canada�s central bank to raise rates until the second half of 2015. Canada escaped the U.S. housing crash that accompanied the 2008-09 financial crisis, and home prices have risen sharply, if not steadily, over the past five years despite the federal government�s moves to tighten mortgage lending rules.

The Teranet data showed prices fell in November from the month before in eight out of 11 cities.

The monthly slump was led by a 1.6-per-cent drop in Halifax, a 1.5-per-cent fall in Quebec City, and a 1-per-cent decline in Montreal. Prices fell 0.7 per cent in Winnipeg, 0.6 per cent in Ottawa and 0.3 per cent in Toronto, Calgary and Victoria.

Home prices were flat in Hamilton and Vancouver, and they rose in only one market, a 1.1-per-cent increase in Edmonton.

By contrast, eight of the 11 cities showed year-over-year price gains.

On that basis, prices were up 1.4 per cent in Calgary, 6.2 per cent in Edmonton, 7.0 per cent in Hamilton, 0.6 per cent in Montreal, 7.3 per cent in Toronto, 5.9 per cent in Vancouver, 1.4 per cent in Victoria and 1.5 per cent in Winnipeg.

They were down 1.8 per cent in Halifax, 0.2 per cent in Ottawa and 0.3 per cent in Quebec City.

# ? Dec 12, 2014 22:18

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Bring it on. I want prices to soar to astronomical heights.

# ? Dec 12, 2014 23:37

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

Bring it on. I want prices to soar to astronomical heights.

hopefully a soft landing just like Japan

# ? Dec 13, 2014 02:58

Brannock: Feb 9, 2006; by exmarx; Fallen Rib

etalian posted:

hopefully a soft landing just like Japan

What do you think a Lost Decade would do for Canadian art?

# ? Dec 13, 2014 04:07

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

etalian posted:

hopefully a soft landing just like Japan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBf71QUNOk

My brother finished everything with buying his house today. I wish I could be so smug about telling him to wait just a single year, but I cant. Hes still my brother and I dont want to push him even further away or add even more stress to what Im assuming is now a stressful situation.

His idiot friend that just bought a second house and was part of the reason my brother felt so pressured into buying though? Its loving on.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 04:45

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Furnaceface posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBf71QUNOk

My brother finished everything with buying his house today. I wish I could be so smug about telling him to wait just a single year, but I cant. Hes still my brother and I dont want to push him even further away or add even more stress to what Im assuming is now a stressful situation.

His idiot friend that just bought a second house and was part of the reason my brother felt so pressured into buying though? Its loving on.

If everyone else is doing it especially in "investments" it's a good money making idea.

Just think of all the happy investors who rushed off to buy IPO stock.

etalian fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:02

Hal_2005: Feb 23, 2007

Brannock posted:

What do you think a Lost Decade would do for Canadian art?

Google what happened to the Japanese university art and artifact collections. Spoiler: Russian and Saudi/Qatar buyers. They had a nice Stradavari, i threw a bid on it last year, the music director of Tokyo U cried when the winner picked it up. Thankfully the group of 7 is in private hands. The B-list ? I can't see The Walrus clique (aka: liberal/quebec oligarchs) splurging 120mm to keep it in Canada.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:24

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

I think he meant creation of new Canadian art, music, etc. Once it all clicks that no one's getting a gainful job, people start following their talents.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:27

Hal_2005: Feb 23, 2007

Cultural Imperial posted:

Come at me bro.

ps. great post

e: I don't intend on borrowing money from the bank right now or any time in the near future simply because I feel entitled buy a house at a price where I will be free and clear, or very close to. I don't drive a fancy car and I own it outright. I have no debts and I haven't carried a balance on an unsecured loan since maybe 2001. I graduated from university back when tuition was like $1250 per semester (or was that a year?).

Most of my rage in this thread stems from a massive entitlement complex that my quality of life is being diluted by people willing to shoulder large amounts of debt. When I see someone driving down the street in a new 3 series, parking in my rented condo's lot, I think to myself, yeah that loving rear end in a top hat is part of the problem and the reason I'm renting a place to live is because I lack 'vision', enough to think that 300k/600k/800k worth of mortgage debt is ridiculous even if the payments are affordable. Because holy gently caress, doesn't anyone want to live mortgage free anymore?

I totally agree. There were a frackton (see what I did there) of guys who lived on mega-leverage, or were tied to the beta-trade generated by luxury spending or discretionary demand for everything be it Kors purses to home contractors. What many do not notice is there was a huge divergence due to economic productivity. Ontario blew up because post-Harris they decided to double down on fiscal pork, biotech and tech; all of which have ZERO corporate governance standards in Canada. PriotXX, Corel, Boderbund and a whole host of other failheap challenges prove that. Hell, RIM is a shining example of pork at its best/worst. As such, most of the net transfer provinces, and by extension most of Canada has this opinion that they were entitied to the GDP growth of Alberta/SK/BC. Which for most of the 70,80 & early 90's were given jack poo poo. and enjoyed it while Quebec, Ontario and PEI/NB blew their brains out on mega-workfare programs (chalk lake??) and later, patronage projects (google the Trudeau to Bouchard corruption just peeking its head via the Saputo & Hells Angels patronage projects in the Lauentian valley).

The TLDR, is unless you have your head up Marx's rear end, even Poloz was walking back the statements in NYC today regarding what that LOGIT model shows. On average, if oil drops 10 bux/bbl, then we roughly take 0.3% off GDP. Our gdp is going to grow 2.1% next year. That was at 100 bux that study was done. So take a wild guess on what our GDP is estimated to be at next year. Now since our dollar is tied to our strength, and most of our manufactured goods are not made in Canada. If everything at Costco to Home Depot goes up by 30% since the CADUSD devalued by 10% plus margin markups to offset the losses in purchasing power (and gross sales), how much money do you think is going to be left in your budget, if on average you only saved 300 bux at the pump over the course of a year.

Consumer euphoria is at all time highs, as shown by the consumer index today, but that's usually a big rear end red alarm bell before a correction, because if you go back, the same thing happened before the big crunch in the 87. When everyone said they would spend a fuckton, and then all of a sudden they learned prices do not go down, but producers just enjoy fat margins, until they start to default. And I can't see Weston or the Empire guys going bust anytime soon.

But yes, I am serious, I'd love to get a goon survey, since after 1 day it seems nobody is stepping up (but this guy) to say if they are actually going to be cheering and thus, spending on big ticket items now that leverage and dollar value is going to be going up (significantly) in the next 10 days. We can also add securities into the mix. How many of you are going to go splurge on some cheap TSX stocks or Canada dollar bonds given we are now trading at record lows in valaution compared to everywhere but those shining OECD economies: Russia, China and Indonesia.

Edit to Peter because I dont want to thread poo poo:

- That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. If you can't get a wage job, what sort of talent will you be expected to follow ? Do you see a sudden increase in the employment of Italy or Greece suddenly 'following their dreams' ? How about Russia. I bet they have boatloads of guys just dying (sic) to get a job at the Beloshi after going to school for 7 years to be a engineer.

Hal_2005 fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:36

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

oh come on who gives a gently caress about group of 7? If I never saw another loving emily carr again it would not be soon enough

e: it warms my heart no one is weeping for CAN-LIT yet

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:37

Hal_2005: Feb 23, 2007

Cultural Imperial posted:

oh come on who gives a gently caress about group of 7? If I never saw another loving emily carr again it would not be soon enough

Ok. I lied, this is now the dumbest post I have seen. Unstick your head from your rear end and take a moment, and go check out what the national gallery insures some of those things for. Hint, each one has a value beneath the painting for novelty. Canada has (had) a frackton of good artists. And you can bet, if a highly leveraged city were to blow out because the transfer payments stopped, don't think those pieces are and will be scooped up. Go look at what happened to the Detroit state gallery when the Ford's didn't want to buy them back. Or go look at Christie's site for the last debitors auction on what Florence's trove went for. Art's not just about looking at paintings, but I'm guessing that's going to ruffle some Marxist feathers in D&D.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:41

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Sorry but i read your post as something as dumb as "wow you are an rear end in a top hat, go read about the glory of canada's long rich history as a shining light to culture and civilization, from the invention of peacekeeping to the discovery of basketball".

e: here's what i think about the glory and greatness of canadian 'art'

namaste friends fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:44

Hal_2005: Feb 23, 2007

Cultural Imperial posted:

Sorry but i read your post as something as dumb as "wow you are an rear end in a top hat, go read about the glory of canada's long rich history as a shining light to culture and civilization, from the invention of peacekeeping to the discovery of basketball".

Oh look, an adhomin because you ignored everything I said, but wanted to save face with a non-witty post. How original.

I was very clear. In state auctions, art is a very sought after commodity.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-08/chanos-among-art-buyers-in-miami-as-car-scraps-fetch-3-million.html

Since you want to go off the farm on a sidetrack, go watch the interview with Chanos by Stephanie Rhule. Then get back to me when you figure out what a buyers premium is, and how art is a better bolthole for black money or tax-advantaged players.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:47

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Furnaceface posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrBf71QUNOk

My brother finished everything with buying his house today. I wish I could be so smug about telling him to wait just a single year, but I cant. Hes still my brother and I dont want to push him even further away or add even more stress to what Im assuming is now a stressful situation.

His idiot friend that just bought a second house and was part of the reason my brother felt so pressured into buying though? Its loving on.

Barrie is awesome, congrats to your brother.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 05:52

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

If you think "modern" art (especially garbage like Pollock) has any value, cultural or otherwise, you're an idiot.

Modern Art was a CIA weapon against Soviet Realism, officials reveal.

quote:

This was the "long leash". The centrepiece of the CIA campaign became the Congress for Cultural Freedom, a vast jamboree of intellectuals, writers, historians, poets, and artists which was set up with CIA funds in 1950 and run by a CIA agent. It was the beach-head from which culture could be defended against the attacks of Moscow and its "fellow travellers" in the West. At its height, it had offices in 35 countries and published more than two dozen magazines, including Encounter.

quote:

In 1958 the touring exhibition "The New American Painting", including works by Pollock, de Kooning, Motherwell and others, was on show in Paris. The Tate Gallery was keen to have it next, but could not afford to bring it over. Late in the day, an American millionaire and art lover, Julius Fleischmann, stepped in with the cash and the show was brought to London. The money that Fleischmann provided, however, was not his but the CIA's. It came through a body called the Farfield Foundation, of which Fleischmann was president, but far from being a millionaire's charitable arm, the foundation was a secret conduit for CIA funds.

Rusted out shells of Camaros don't end up in the VAG today because they have any artistic value, it's the hangover from forty years of CIA propaganda funds stuffing art museums full of literal garbage.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:08

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Ikantski posted:

Barrie is awesome, congrats to your brother.

No, Barrie is the opposite of awesome. There is no work here aside from retail and fast food, leaving over 50% of the work force commuting outside the city for work. The city stopped building affordable housing and renal units years ago in favor of condos and Toronto-style housing lots. What few rentals you can find are all run by absentee landlords from Toronto. Its a bedroom community and a college town and once the housing bubble bursts this place is going to end up looking like Peterborough.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:13

JawKnee: Mar 24, 2007; You'll take the ride to leave this town along that yellow line

Hal_2005 posted:

I was very clear. In state auctions, art is a very sought after commodity.

the only valuation, haha

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:13

triplexpac: Mar 24, 2007; Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you

Furnaceface posted:

No, Barrie is the opposite of awesome. There is no work here aside from retail and fast food, leaving over 50% of the work force commuting outside the city for work. The city stopped building affordable housing and renal units years ago in favor of condos and Toronto-style housing lots. What few rentals you can find are all run by absentee landlords from Toronto. Its a bedroom community and a college town and once the housing bubble bursts this place is going to end up looking like Peterborough.

Is there anywhere to work in the GTA besides Toronto?

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:14

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

triplexpac posted:

Is there anywhere to work in the GTA besides Toronto?

I would have to assume so since so many people here make that trek 5 days a week (and its not a trip you take for funsies, the 400 is a death trap in the winter, especially between 88 and 89). Not as much as there used to be, though, if the rising unemployment is any indicator.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:21

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Furnaceface posted:

No, Barrie is the opposite of awesome. There is no work here aside from retail and fast food, leaving over 50% of the work force commuting outside the city for work. The city stopped building affordable housing and renal units years ago in favor of condos and Toronto-style housing lots. What few rentals you can find are all run by absentee landlords from Toronto. Its a bedroom community and a college town and once the housing bubble bursts this place is going to end up looking like Peterborough.

It's good for your brother that there are few rentals there, it makes his house less likely to depreciate. I know that a lot of people commute and that's why Barrie would be my choice if I absolutely had to buy a house in Ontario. You're 60 minutes from Toronto which is growing at 9% per year and nobody can afford to buy there. Barrie is growing at 5.5% a year and they have a low 5% unemployment rate. You get to live in a nice clean town in a house instead of a 2 bedroom condo and it's $150k cheaper. Barrie will look like Peterborough when Toronto looks like Detroit, that's probably not going to happen.

Edit: All this to say that it probably isn't worth fighting with your brother over it, Barrie is on the safer end of the spectrum.

Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:39

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Having spent considerable time working in Kitchener Waterloo, I can only imagine what a loving shithole Barrie must be. Only 60 minutes from Toronto!!?!?!? SIGN ME UP

# ? Dec 13, 2014 06:41

Dr. Witherbone: Nov 1, 2010; CHEESE LOOKS ON IN
DESPAIR BUT ALSO WITH
AN ERECTION

I know it's your gimmick and all, but your senseless hatefulness reeeaaaallly gets old, Cultural Imperial. Like, relishing the suffering of people 'cause they're stupid or just economically uninformed is straight out of the libertarian handbook. Congrats on being a rational actor, Galt.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Dec 13, 2014 08:32

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

what treasure! :allears:

why don't you go toss yourself onto a pyre of margaret atwood and robertson davies books

I relish the suffering and demise of overindebted retards because they're greedy and materialistic

# ? Dec 13, 2014 08:41

Dr. Witherbone: Nov 1, 2010; CHEESE LOOKS ON IN
DESPAIR BUT ALSO WITH
AN ERECTION

Bachman�Turner Overdrive.

Rupert.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 08:51

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 8 hours!

Stickin around

# ? Dec 13, 2014 10:18

Saltin: Aug 20, 2003; Don't touch

Cultural Imperial posted:

I relish the suffering and demise of overindebted retards because they're greedy and materialistic

Is it ok to be greedy and materialistic if you can afford to be? I mean the old fashioned way, with cash.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 14:07

EngineerJoe: Aug 8, 2004; -=whore=-

Cultural Imperial posted:

Having spent considerable time working in Kitchener Waterloo, I can only imagine what a loving shithole Barrie must be. Only 60 minutes from Toronto!!?!?!? SIGN ME UP

What did you do in KW?

# ? Dec 13, 2014 14:31

Blade_of_tyshalle: Jul 12, 2009; If you think that, along the way, you're not going to fail... you're blind.

There's no one I've ever met, no matter how successful they are, who hasn't said they had their failures along the way.

Just because he's the OP of this thread doesn't mean y'all have to leave him off your ignore lists.

Saltin posted:

Is it ok to be greedy and materialistic if you can afford to be? I mean the old fashioned way, with cash.

Sure, just grab some of Gail Vaz-Oxlade's books on how to budget, then you can properly fuel your rapacious hunger to consume all consumer goods.

(Seriously, grab some of her books. I'm trying to turn my finances around and she says some good poo poo.)

# ? Dec 13, 2014 14:54

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Stickin around

Real mature, Bradley.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 16:14

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Furnaceface posted:

No, Barrie is the opposite of awesome. There is no work here aside from retail and fast food, leaving over 50% of the work force commuting outside the city for work. The city stopped building affordable housing and renal units years ago in favor of condos and Toronto-style housing lots. What few rentals you can find are all run by absentee landlords from Toronto. Its a bedroom community and a college town and once the housing bubble bursts this place is going to end up looking like Peterborough.

I have family that I will be visiting in Barrie (Innisfil specifically). I can confirm that this poster is correct and Barrie does indeed suck.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 16:20

Demon_Corsair: Mar 22, 2004; Goodbye stealing souls, hello stealing booty.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Sure, just grab some of Gail Vaz-Oxlade's books on how to budget, then you can properly fuel your rapacious hunger to consume all consumer goods.

(Seriously, grab some of her books. I'm trying to turn my finances around and she says some good poo poo.)

If you are learning to budget, I can't recommend ynab enough. It's helping me pull my rear end out from under a big pile of debt.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 16:38

Franks Happy Place: Mar 15, 2011; It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dank of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by weed alone I set my mind in motion.

Blade_of_tyshalle posted:

Just because he's the OP of this thread doesn't mean y'all have to leave him off your ignore lists.

This right here.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 17:33

Ceciltron: Jan 11, 2007; Text BEEP to 43527 for the dancing robot!; Pillbug

Demon_Corsair posted:

If you are learning to budget, I can't recommend ynab enough. It's helping me pull my rear end out from under a big pile of debt.

Same here. It helped me put aside a bunch of money for a trip, and recover from said trip adequately.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 17:39

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

It's humorous looking at GTA listings with most condo mortgage costing around $1700 to $2200 before even adding all the extras like insurance, taxes or the monthly condo fee.

Meanwhile rents for one bedroom in central Toronto, which I assume is the most expensive parts:

Meanwhile in Vancouver:

One a side note the CMHC publishes free yearly rental reports than anyone can read up and is obviously a much more accurate way to track rental costs vs anecdotes/random online sites like numbeo.

etalian fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Dec 13, 2014

# ? Dec 13, 2014 17:49

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

B-b-but real estate always goes up! It's an unbeatable investment!

# ? Dec 13, 2014 18:37

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/politics/foreign-workers-microsoft-gets-green-light-from-ottawa-for-foreign-trainees-1.2870289

quote:

The federal government has granted an exemption to Microsoft Canada that will allow the company to bring in an unspecified number of temporary foreign workers to British Columbia as trainees without first looking for Canadians to fill the jobs.

A notice posted on the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website says foreign workers will receive specialized training in a new human resources development centre in the province. The tech giant will not have to perform a labour market impact assessment (LMIA) � a rigorous process that would include a search for Canadians who could fill the positions.

The exemption was granted under a provincial-federal agreement that gives a pass to companies that gain provincial approval.

The Canadian government argues the arrangement is the result of a significant investment by Microsoft that will create jobs for Canadians as well at a new 400-person training centre.

Nevertheless, some legal observers say the decision appears at odds with the government's promise to crack down on abuse in the system in order to protect Canadian jobs.

"There is certainly no justification that I can see that would support granting an exemption to a large number of foreign workers to come into Canada to take away jobs that could easily filled by Canadians," said Toronto immigration lawyer Lorne Waldman.

"On the one hand, the government is telling us they are protecting Canadian jobs; on the other hand they're signing agreements with big corporations in which they're allowing them to bring in foreign workers."

Two-year work permits

The government notice says the new training and development centre will focus on "software and engineering." The centre will add 400 jobs that will "include paid internships for Canadian students and long-term employees," as well as "bring international employees into 18-month rotational training positions."

The notice also says foreign workers will be given 24-month work permits to allow them to stay in Canada "until they are transitioned by Microsoft into a new position elsewhere."

A source familiar with the LMIA process says he's flabbergasted the government would allow the exemption, since it gives Microsoft a significant competitive advantage

The source, who works in immigration law, noted that many other tech companies also offer training but are not being given such an exemption. He said the trainees who come through the centre will not just be learning, they will be "developing product" for the company.

"It's fantastic that Microsoft wants to offer this [training centre], but a lot of companies offer unique opportunities [like this]," he said. "These are jobs in Canada that require work permits, and they could find Canadian graduates from computer science programs to fill them."

In an email, Citizenship and Immigration Canada spokesperson Sonia Lesage said the trainees are not going to be entering the Canadian workforce, and therefore won't be competing with Canadian workers.

"They are employees of a major international corporation who are being sent for training at the Centre of Excellence before moving on to positions at other Microsoft facilities," she wrote.

In a later email, Lesage said the international trainees will enter Canada under the International Mobility Program, while other foreign nationals at the facility "would be subject to all regular rules of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program or International Mobility Program (IMP), depending on their specific situation."

Waldman called this "doublespeak," because the International Mobility Program includes all programs that are exempted from the LMIA process. He said the online notice clearly states the exemption is being made for the Temporary Foreign Worker Program at the request of the province.

And, he added, the exemption sets a precedent.

"There is no other exemption that is specific to a corporation, and it does not fall within any of the other categories where exemptions are normally given," he said. "The effect is to create a new category: the Microsoft Exemption. And, if Microsoft can get one then why not IBM?"

U.S. immigration 'a factor'

Microsoft Canada did not immediately respond to questions about the deal.

But in an interview earlier this year with Bloomberg Businessweek, Karen Jones, Microsoft�s deputy general counsel, said the deal will allow Microsoft to bypass stricter U.S. rules on visas for foreign workers.

"The U.S. laws clearly did not meet our needs. We have to look to other places," she told the wire service. She went on to say Microsoft didn�t choose to expand in Vancouver "purely for immigration purposes, but immigration is a factor."

The source said that means the company will take advantage of rules governing intra-company transfers, which require employees to work for at least one year at a company subsidiary before being transferred to the U.S. He says the result will be a net disadvantage for Canada.

"So we're not getting any long-term benefit here � we're just a turnstile."

But the government argues the training centre will create Canadian jobs where there are none, saying it's "an important and beneficial development" for the country.

"Hosting the Microsoft Centre of Excellence in Canada will also provide training opportunities for Canadians and will create long-term jobs that would not exist otherwise," Lesage wrote.

The department did not indicate how many temporary foreign workers Microsoft intends to bring in each year, but said the number would increase "over time as the facility becomes fully established."

Foreign worker changes

Last June, when Employment and Social Development Minister Jason Kenney tabled reforms to the temporary foreign worker program, he emphasized provinces would not get a free pass when it came to the new rules, despite the longstanding side agreements or annexes that allowed this exemption.

At the time, his department wrote, "Annex agreements with provinces and territories are being changed so that employers that used to bring temporary foreign workers to Canada through these agreements will now be subject to an LMIA."

Kenney announced the overhaul after stories about alleged abuses surfaced in the media.

Since then, Kenney has been under pressure from small business groups, the restaurant and hospitality sector and provincial governments to ease up and once again allow more temporary workers in.

Waldman argues that the fact new Microsoft employees will be trained here means the company can't argue there's a skills shortage that requires them to bring in foreign workers.

"Why can't we have Canadian trainees hired by Microsoft? Why does Microsoft have to bring foreign trainees in to work in Canada without having to prove there aren't Canadians available for the positions?"

Because the Canadians you get in Vancouver aren't smart enough that's why.

# ? Dec 13, 2014 18:42

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# ? May 10, 2024 08:55

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Cultural Imperial posted:

e: here's what i think about the glory and greatness of canadian 'art'

Canadian art, eh?

Also, filed under "poo poo we already know": Vancouver being transformed by new wave of brash, rich Asians looking for safe place to �park their cash�

# ? Dec 13, 2014 19:41

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

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