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JerryLee posted:I always assumed the amount of volume could just be taken care of by a relatively small cadre of owner-operators pouring the resin. This is almost certainly the case. I would be extremely surprised if even the largest operations were more than 5-10 people. It's certainly possible they're making their employees work 18 hour days pouring an asbestos-melamine-lead hybrid resin but from their descriptions and communication I'd guess they're all individuals or small teams. And by Chinese standards they're probably making pretty good money even while undercutting by 50-80%. What's GW stuff cost independent shops when they buy wholesale? 50% of MSRP?
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Dec 16, 2014 06:58
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70%. Which is why you shouldn't buy from any retailer with a 25% discount.
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Dec 16, 2014 06:59
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:70%. Which is why you shouldn't buy from any retailer with a 25% discount. How do they make money with a 25% discount? High volume?
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Dec 16, 2014 07:07
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Therein lies the rub. Unless they are ripping you off with the postage they are probably using the money you are giving them to buy the goods of the customer before you. Edit: Obviously it's different if they are a place physically holding stock, but those tend to be 20% off at most. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 07:11
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ghetto wormhole posted:How do they make money with a 25% discount? High volume? It's probably the cross-selling of non-GW products that they are making their (hypothetical) actual profit on.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:33
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gently caress all of y'all. Broken Loose, Broken Loose, Broken Loose!
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Dec 16, 2014 07:45
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I've bought a heap of FW stuff and still continue to but my Chinese recaster bro is loving amazing for bits. With GW not doing it anymore and bitz stores being so hit and miss it's amazing being able to order a heap of Sanguinary Guard torsos (for my Honour Guard) or Grey Knight Terminator heads. FW is pretty good with their selection though and most of the kits are broken down into weapons and torsos so I think the only FW stuff I've gotten recast were some predator turrets. My legit forge world Contemptor was a real pain to clean and prepare though, same with my Hydra. Forgeworld are cool guys but their quality control is awful. I've had missing parts or miscasts on four orders (out of about six?) and my two China resin ones were perfectly cast and packed. The FW books are great though and the Badab War ones are just beautiful. Also every time I spend $70 on a loving iPad codex that makes me have to buy new Troops choices that helps smother any guilt I have.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:45
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:It makes zero financial sense to participate in this hobby at all. I am an adult man who budgets monthly for toys. Don't use lovely 'well it doesn't make any sense to pay FW prices when I can get more for cheaper!' logic to justify the fact you just want to have your cake and eat it, too. There is no need to 'save' money in this hobby. You do not have some overbearing need to get 3 Castellax for the price of 1. You're not some working class parent saving money to feed two kids for the price of one. You're a person who wants more toys for less money. There's no justification. "I am an adult that spends money on toys, therefore I have to spend the absolute highest amount of money per product because I'm a hard M  " Better go buy all your Space Marines from the Australian store then! Why get one off the US GW website for $75 when you could pay $110 from GW Australia?!? Morality of recasters aside, people will naturally buy goods and services where it is cheapest if they are aware of it. It's basic economics, for gently caress sake. Saying there's no justification for wanting to have more money in your bank account after a purchase is hilariously dumb. Are you seriously a masochist for high prices? Are you Super Neat Toy, by any chance? That'd explain a drat lot.
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Dec 16, 2014 07:55
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why
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Dec 16, 2014 08:03
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HiveCommander posted:
Sure, but are you really such a hyper capitalist that you have no interest in the well being of others or the sustainability of the market you are participating in? I don't think you can operate on the assumption of "morality aside" because context is super important here.
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Dec 16, 2014 08:11
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I'm friends with recasters and many are european expats that either found an existing Chinese supplier or are a hobbyist who moved to China and decided to hook his European homies up. The death of the bits market has been a major boon for them. Also its easy to tell the quality of what you are getting, even from images. Almost all the cheap ones with have garbage quality control/brittle/lacking detail come from a single source in China. I know nothing about that place and it could actually be a resin slave mine. There are smaller shops, however, that use resin imported from other countries, do their own casts, and are run by hobbyists. The quality here is much higher and one guy I know even spends hours fixing bubbles and cleaning mold lines before sending them off to get 'copied'. These are much more difficult to spot, but I honestly prefer their material over FW resin since its more elastic and there is no release agent.
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Dec 16, 2014 08:15
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HiveCommander posted:"I am an adult that spends money on toys, therefore I have to spend the absolute highest amount of money per product because I'm a hard M I'd include a cute graph of 'the point' and you somewhere miles below it but I think you'd not get that either. I don't want to spend as much money as possible. As a matter of fact, I want to spend as little as possible. However, my personal taste largely preclude me from buying second hand (I also prefer to support first-hand markets in things like this) and I am morally opposed to other people illegally reproducing someone else's product for personal gain. I also purchase most everything from my LGS, which offers no real discounts but still is run by a very nice man who I enjoy supporting. Despite all of this, I still want to pay as little as possible. Hell, I want to pay less than I do. However, as we've established, the avenues for doing so are closed to me, and quite frankly I am not financially burdened by paying what I do and I don't feel the need to compromise my morals in order to buy more pretend shootmans. The point is that there's no need for any of these things. If you want to save money by buying second-hand or from a discounted retailer, by all means, that's your prerogative. I choose not to, but there's nothing wrong with doing so. If you want to save money by buying recasts, you can do that too. I promise no one is stopping you. You're just supporting something lovely because you want to spend less money on a luxury. Also yes, I am SUPER NEAT TOY.
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Dec 16, 2014 08:15
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You are like the shittiest Daemon (or Candyman, or Bloody Mary, etc) dude. Anyways, GW is forcing Tyranid players to cut off their own dicks.
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Dec 16, 2014 08:20
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Cataphract posted:Sure, but are you really such a hyper capitalist that you have no interest in the well being of others or the sustainability of the market you are participating in? In the milieu of economic relations within and surrounding Games Workshop, it is the buyers of recasts who are the 'hyper capitalists' who have 'no interest in the well being of others [GW sculptors and other employees, I assume]' or 'the sustainability of the market'  <--- pretend I posted the animation where ironicat is growing until it takes up half the screen
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Dec 16, 2014 08:38
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Von Humboldt posted:You are like the shittiest Daemon (or Candyman, or Bloody Mary, etc) dude. Anyways, GW is forcing Tyranid players to cut off their own dicks. nigga deadass stop pressin me you bitches brought me here
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Dec 16, 2014 08:46
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Broken Loose posted:nigga deadass stop pressin me you bitches brought me here
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Dec 16, 2014 08:54
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Cataphract posted:Sure, but are you really such a hyper capitalist that you have no interest in the well being of others or the sustainability of the market you are participating in? REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:I'd include a cute graph of 'the point' and you somewhere miles below it but I think you'd not get that either. I don't want to spend as much money as possible. As a matter of fact, I want to spend as little as possible. However, my personal taste largely preclude me from buying second hand (I also prefer to support first-hand markets in things like this) and I am morally opposed to other people illegally reproducing someone else's product for personal gain. I also purchase most everything from my LGS, which offers no real discounts but still is run by a very nice man who I enjoy supporting. Despite all of this, I still want to pay as little as possible. Hell, I want to pay less than I do. However, as we've established, the avenues for doing so are closed to me, and quite frankly I am not financially burdened by paying what I do and I don't feel the need to compromise my morals in order to buy more pretend shootmans. Also, you should hit up your FLGS some time. Most stores I've frequented offer discounts to local gaming clubs or repeat customers. I recently moved to a city 6 hours away and still managed to find a local place that sells me stuff at a discount. HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 08:55
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Von Humboldt posted:You are like the shittiest Daemon (or Candyman, or Bloody Mary, etc) dude. I believe the technical term is "Beetlejuice"
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Dec 16, 2014 08:58
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Happy page 420.    Annual  about how Space Marines should be roughly this big: I can't place that shoulder pad, I swear I have at least two yet don't recognize it. Terminators should be even BIGGER. 
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Dec 16, 2014 09:13
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Does the teleport homer work when the models are embarked in a transport? Could you, theoretically, have the Stormravens fly in turn one, zoom 36 inches forward, and then call down three drop pods of Furioso Dreads from the goofy Elite detachment and have them charge at something you don't like? I mean, it would be entirely dependent on the first reserve roll going off, but if it's even possible to threaten something with a charge 60 inches from your board edge that'd be hilarious Drop Pods aren't assault vehicles so Dreads still have to wait a turn to assault (unless that OTHER formation makes Drop Pods assault vehicles). Also Locator Beacons only work if the model carrying it was on the table at the start of your turn so you can't really utilize them with this formation on Turn 1. A couple units of dirt cheap Infiltrating Scouts or Scout Bikers might make more useful drop pod beacons. Pacheeco fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 09:16
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Post 9-11 User posted:Happy page 420. Now you see, this, this is a good post. You should all learn from this post.
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Dec 16, 2014 09:40
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Post 9-11 User posted:
Those are some shoulders from the chaos terminators.
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Dec 16, 2014 09:49
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What game do you play? 420K
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Dec 16, 2014 10:00
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Pacheeco posted:Drop Pods aren't assault vehicles so Dreads still have to wait a turn to assault (unless that OTHER formation makes Drop Pods assault vehicles). Also Locator Beacons only work if the model carrying it was on the table at the start of your turn so you can't really utilize them with this formation on Turn 1. A couple units of dirt cheap Infiltrating Scouts or Scout Bikers might make more useful drop pod beacons. Drop pods are open topped and are therefore assault vehicles.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:02
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Cataphract posted:Drop pods are open topped and are therefore assault vehicles. Sadly I don't think it would override the assaulting out of deep strike rule. Does it say anywhere you have to disembark though? I have always just slammed the pod in there and poured the guys out.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:36
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Cataphract posted:For once I think Hollismason and I feel similarly. A big objection of mine is the fact that these recasts are likely made in factories employing terrible and exploitative working conditions. And whilst I sit here typing this on my iPhone I understand the hypocrisy; so much of what we consume in the west is produced in these conditions. I'm cognisant of that but I make, where I can, efforts to not be part of something that I see as an injustice. To be fair, I haven't visited either of course. However from dealing with them directly these operations strike me as just a handful of guys - probably related - working from a small rented industrial unit. I highly doubt there's any involvement of "exploitative working conditions" or anything like child labour. My employer has operations in China, and I've worked with people from the same area and heard a lot of stories about the local business culture. Generally the ones committing the biggest labour abuses are the Foxconn-sized operations who know the right government officials to 'talk' to. Smaller businesses will try to stay off the radar as best as possible by employing family members and keeping things quiet, because the alternative is basically bribes. I've heard quite a few amusing stories about the lengths even legitimate businesses have to go to in order to avoid this. Acebuckeye13 posted:I'll admit I bought a few recasts this past year, but I'm not gonna do it again. Just from a quality standpoint it felt as though it was a "You get what you pay for" situation, and if I'm gonna be spending a lot of money regardless I'd prefer to spend the extra cash giving myself some quality-control insurance and instructions. Also, you know, supporting the company that actually makes the rules. Three guys from our group got together and made a combined purchase around Easter. I picked up some Tyranid and Epic stuff, another guy got FW marines, and the last guy wanted a Warhound. We got a response to say they needed to produce some of the items, and the order would be sent in two batches. The first batch arrived two weeks later containing:
We emailed back with photos showing the error, and the caster said we'd get the rest of the pieces in the next batch. This package arrived over a month later after a few attempts at chasing. All my outstanding stuff was present and correct. A set of legs for the Warhound were included this time, although there were still some key pieces missing such as leg joints and toes. This time the recaster didn't respond to emails, and we had to leave it at that. The guy ended up ordering a proper Warhound from FW, and hasn't yet decided if he should restore the bootleg one or turn it into some cool terrain. Many people assume that casting quality is the main drawback to recasts, but this isn't true. What is off-putting is a combination of two other things; delivery times and lack of product knowledge. You can wait several weeks to see if you're actually getting what you ordered, and if there's any issues you'll then have to wait even longer for replacements. It can also be difficult to explain to people who don't understand the products, and packing errors based on this are common. Many of the items I bought came with random extra components; Venomthropes with Impaler cannons, Lictors with space marine backpacks. Nothing was missing, there were just extra pieces because any packing mistake ends up being duplicated as the recasters don't understand what they're selling. Would I buy recasts again? Probably, but after GW's recent turn-around I'd probably only bother with things I couldn't get from them; Epic models, bitz or limited edition / OOP stuff that people tend to gouge for on ebay. Not that I have any urgent need to purchase right now... my to-be-painted shelf is looking pretty hefty right now.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:40
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JackMack posted:Sadly I don't think it would override the assaulting out of deep strike rule. Does it say anywhere you have to disembark though? I have always just slammed the pod in there and poured the guys out. You can't assault out of a drop pod under normal conditions, but they're talking about the formation in the quote below. And yeah, you have to disembark when you come down in a drop pod. MasterSlowPoke posted:Next week on White Dwarf: Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Dec 16, 2014 |
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Dec 16, 2014 10:44
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Safety Factor posted:You can't assault out of a drop pod under normal conditions, but they're talking about the formation in the quote below. And yeah, you have to disembark when you come down in a drop pod. Roger. Apologies to all. I was too lost in fantasies of my devastator six inches from the enemy squad sitting in its drop pod egg firing out with AV 12 all around saving it from anti infantry fire.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:57
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My family has been involved in employment advocacy stuff over there. I'm across some hosed things that can happen in even a small operation.
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Dec 16, 2014 10:57
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Oh boy so they finally allow an assault from deep strike under really specific conditions on a Tactical Squad? I can't wait.
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Dec 16, 2014 11:20
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It's a step in the right direction for assault-based armies. A very small step, but it's at least something.
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Dec 16, 2014 11:28
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Post 9-11 User posted:
Chaos terminator shoulder pad.
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Dec 16, 2014 11:30
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will blow your mind.
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Oh wow. White dwarf has started to include free stuff again. The next two issues will each include half of an objective deck for cities of death!
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Dec 16, 2014 12:09
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I think this recasting chat is going OK because there's generally reasoned comments from all sides here and no going crazy. I know it's already been said but I really don't think anyone is poor-shaming anyone, and (at least this time) no one is trying to shame anyone for spending ££££s or $$$$s on their tiny man-dollies. This is a ridiculous hobby and the money would probably be better spent on liquor and drugs. At least with alcohol you're not left with shelves or boxes full of reminders of how much time and money you spent obtaining and painting little space dudes. I have some recast stuff, purchased from a goon via this thread. Partly because it was really cheap (unbuilt & unwanted models) and partly because I wanted to see it for myself. It's recast GW plastic stuff, not FW, and after having gotten the actual models I'd have to say I would have preferred to get used plastic models from someone on ebay - if you can even find Tervigons or Tyrannofexes there - or slowly picked up the odd one or two models in online sales. I prefer having plastic models because plastic glue is awesome for models. Have I looked at recast FW stuff? Of course, and it is cheaper. But for the 'extra' cost of getting the official models you get much faster shipping, email replies, very good customer support and most importantly you support the products you want to see (encouraging the bean-counters at GW to continue making that product). This year was the first time I picked up any Horus Heresy books and an Imperial Armour book and I'll definitely be getting more - at least all the HH books as they come out and the remaining IA books that apply to my armies. I have seen pictures on Facebook of people complaining about poorly-fitting Sicaran tanks and bent gun barrels, and I don't know if the guy never called FW customer service, but the recasters can only recast the bits they get, so if they're copying bent bits that's what everyone is getting. IMO, poor college students and starving artists (or people without juice for their kids) shouldn't be trying to expand their Forge World collection anyway, and FW staff say you can proxy whatever you want in a 30K game, so there shouldn't be any pressure to get the latest HH tank or bits - that probably comes mostly from internal desire or your fellow gamers. Long post but tl;dr I have some recasts and wish I would have just gotten the plastic models. Have some pictures of a Chaos Daemon Titan someone made with 800 Mantic figures:       Made as a student art project and for sale on ebay UK
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Dec 16, 2014 12:10
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Cataphract posted:Oh wow. White dwarf has started to include free stuff again. The next two issues will each include half of an objective deck for cities of death! drat, might have to pick both of those up for the campaign I'm taking part in... Is this part of a move to update that expansion?
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Dec 16, 2014 12:18
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Lord Twisted posted:drat, might have to pick both of those up for the campaign I'm taking part in... Is this part of a move to update that expansion? It's been reprinted in the Leviathan book, which is in softcover now. Definitely getting the next couple of WD mags now!
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Dec 16, 2014 12:20
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This is why recast chat never really goes anywhere. If you don't care where you get things from and are entirely motivated by cost to plastic crack ratio, you'll buy it. If you arent, you won't.
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Dec 16, 2014 12:38
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krushgroove posted:Have some pictures of a Chaos Daemon Titan someone made with 800 Mantic figures: Jesus, this is horrifying.
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Dec 16, 2014 12:46
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krushgroove posted:I think this recasting chat is going OK because there's generally reasoned comments from all sides here and no going crazy. I know it's already been said but I really don't think anyone is poor-shaming anyone, and (at least this time) no one is trying to shame anyone for spending ££££s or $$$$s on their tiny man-dollies. This is a ridiculous hobby and the money would probably be better spent on liquor and drugs. At least with alcohol you're not left with shelves or boxes full of reminders of how much time and money you spent obtaining and painting little space dudes. I'm pretty sure I saw this dude in a nightmare I had about End of Evangelion.
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Dec 16, 2014 12:51
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The daemon titan thing is actually legit creepy, well done dude.
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