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In It For The Tank posted:Victarion's SUPER VOLCANO HAND stands testament to the power of blood magic done right. Remind me about this?
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Dec 8, 2014 05:43
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Speleothing posted:Remind me about this? In AFFC, Victarion's hand is wounded in combat when he catches a blade. By ADWD, the hand has become infected and, no matter how much the ship's maester cleans it, the wound festers. The Iron Fleet comes across Moqorro in the ocean and fishes him out, and the Red Priest promptly claims that, without his help, Victarion will die. Victarion allows Moqorro to perform an unspecified ritual which leaves his hand blackened and burned, but supernaturally powerful. Artist's rendition:   
In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 06:03
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The power of the Red Priests is pretty interesting, it's definitely part of the "returning magic" of the world and at times it's pretty clear even they don't know what's going on or why - Thoros was shocked when he brought Beric back to life, and Melisandre seemed to admit privately that her magic used to be all tricks and illusions but it's becoming increasingly real. I have to wonder if Moqorro even knew the ritual was going to work, or if he's simply such a true believer that he did it anyway and his faith happened to be rewarded. It's been suggested before that the Seven of Westeros may be fake since we haven't seen any evidence of their power, unlike most other gods in the setting, or that they have "people power" in the sense that the masses of believers are what "empower" people like the High Sparrow. Still, I wouldn't be too surprised if the magic returning thing eventually causes followers of the Seven to demonstrate some actual miraculous powers. Dolash fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 06:18
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Is there any magic that doesn't work via blood and/or sacrifice?
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Dec 8, 2014 06:33
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Warging and some types of prophetic dreams and visions come to mind. Unless you count warging as a blood thing because it seems to be hereditary, in which case just some types of prophetic dreams and visions.
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Dec 8, 2014 06:39
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And fireballs of course.
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Dec 8, 2014 08:14
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Normy posted:And fireballs of course. Only if you consider alchemy/chemistry magic.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:12
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The alchemists use spells to produce Wildfire, when they're making batches for the Battle of Blackwater Bay one of them remarks to Tyrion that they've produced a lot more than they were expecting because for some reason (Dragons) their spells are suddenly way more effective than usual.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:17
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There's also Melisandre's Minor Microwave that makes chicken dinners out of wargs.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:25
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KIM JONG TRILL posted:Only if you consider alchemy/chemistry magic. Something something technology something something magic.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:28
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I think he's talking about the elf girl's Magic Missile spell, not alchemy.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:29
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Leaf was throwing fantasy incendiary grenades, although the actor's throwing motion and the editing were so poor that they might as well as have been fireballs. That was such a bad scene.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:33
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God I had completely forgotten about that horseshit. Blocked it out I had. Though to be honest I was way more irritated by the changes to Tyrion's / Shae's / Tywin's encounters.
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Dec 8, 2014 10:39
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In It For The Tank posted:Warging and some types of prophetic dreams and visions come to mind. Unless you count warging as a blood thing because it seems to be hereditary, in which case just some types of prophetic dreams and visions. What with the blood sacrifice to the old gods in ye oldie times they could have just built up massive stores of ancient blood mana.
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Dec 8, 2014 11:33
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As a tree, Bran will likely be fed blood when sacrifices are made to the trees. The fact that less people are still carrying out the old rites is likely why there are far less Greenseers still kicking around. Also don't forget the pile of bones inside Bran's new home. Blood has been spilling in there for a long time.
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Dec 8, 2014 13:40
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Magic goes hand in hand with human sacrifice in every example we've seen.
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Dec 8, 2014 15:20
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Does it actually matter if it's King's blood, or will any blood do? Or is it a mix of blood + faith/perception that increases the magic's strength?
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Dec 8, 2014 15:37
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Did the warlocks use blood and sacrifice at all?
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Dec 8, 2014 16:55
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Trivia posted:Does it actually matter if it's King's blood, or will any blood do? Or is it a mix of blood + faith/perception that increases the magic's strength? Melisandre thinks it does, that's pretty much the only bit about King's Blood and magic in the book. People consider Drogo's funeral pyre to be a confirmation of the Fire + King's Blood formula as he was supposedly a king himself, but it's all guess work really, can also be argued that Fire + Blood is only the formula to raise dragons, which is somewhat corroborated in "The world of ice and fire", and we know for certain that the Valyrians didn't use King's Blood for their spells, they used the blood of slaves, so who knows. Normy posted:Did the warlocks use blood and sacrifice at all? They were trying to sap Dany's life force, so it seems like it's not a completely different form of magic, for what it's worth.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:01
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Dolash posted:The power of the Red Priests is pretty interesting, it's definitely part of the "returning magic" of the world and at times it's pretty clear even they don't know what's going on or why - Thoros was shocked when he brought Beric back to life, and Melisandre seemed to admit privately that her magic used to be all tricks and illusions but it's becoming increasingly real. I have to wonder if Moqorro even knew the ritual was going to work, or if he's simply such a true believer that he did it anyway and his faith happened to be rewarded. I think that none of the religions in the book are real in the sense that there is/are some kind of God(s) with power. Religion (specifically the Red God and the Drowned God, and to a lesser extent the Old Gods in the North) are a narrative way for the people to explain what they cannot explain through common sense, that doesn't necessarily mean there are Gods involved, it just means that the rituals work.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:36
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I am reading the third book and got to the part where Tywin tells Tyrion he's going to marry him off to Sansa, how it's his best shot because no one wanted to marry Tyrion, and man why in god's name did the richest man in Westeros have such a hard time marrying off his son? You'd think there would be lesser families tripping over themselves trying to ingratiate themselves to the Lannisters, even knowing that Tywin cares very little for Tyrion.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:05
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Calaveron posted:I am reading the third book and got to the part where Tywin tells Tyrion he's going to marry him off to Sansa, how it's his best shot because no one wanted to marry Tyrion, and man why in god's name did the richest man in Westeros have such a hard time marrying off his son? You'd think there would be lesser families tripping over themselves trying to ingratiate themselves to the Lannisters, even knowing that Tywin cares very little for Tyrion. Because he's a Dwarf? No one wants to make their daughter into a laughing stock by marrying her to a Dwarf. Remember this is a society where a lot of people thought Bran would be better off dead than crippled.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:20
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Calaveron posted:I am reading the third book and got to the part where Tywin tells Tyrion he's going to marry him off to Sansa, how it's his best shot because no one wanted to marry Tyrion, and man why in god's name did the richest man in Westeros have such a hard time marrying off his son? You'd think there would be lesser families tripping over themselves trying to ingratiate themselves to the Lannisters, even knowing that Tywin cares very little for Tyrion. It's likely that Tywin wouldn't have had a hard time getting Tyrion a wife. Tywin cares about prestige and respect, he doesn't get any of that by marrying his dwarf to a nobody and paying for the privilege. He needs a marriage that brings something to the table as a marriage to an heir is essentially an alliance between families. The heir to the north is a suitable match and there's no one around to object. Tywin didn't really want Tyrion to marry though. He wanted him to be irrelevant and not harm the name too much while Tywin works on getting Jamie out of his oaths and into making some heirs of his own.
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Dec 11, 2014 01:22
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Trivia posted:Does it actually matter if it's King's blood, or will any blood do? Or is it a mix of blood + faith/perception that increases the magic's strength? The only blood magic we have seen actually work was from Targaryan blood. I don't know if it's Targaryan or Valayian blood that works, but it doesn't seem to matter since the Targs are the only Valaryians left. I don't think you can just yell out " I'm King of this house" and have your bloodcount as king's blood.
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Dec 14, 2014 08:06
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I tend to lean more towards it being a belief thing (which is why I include Drogo's blood as king's blood for the Pyre ritual), just because the "Blood of Old Valyria" in modern day Targaryens is so diluted that, in the current generation, even full-blown incest Targs like Dany are only like 10% pure Targaryen.
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Dec 14, 2014 08:21
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Also don't forget that the blood of Valyria runs strong in Lys. I too think it's a belief-centric thing. Varys' earlier quote about the nature of power is thematically appropriate as well.
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Dec 14, 2014 14:00
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The valyrians were feeding slaves into their volcanoes to build up their mana stores. The slaves weren't valyrians themselves. Given that the whole "King's Blood" thing comes from Melisandre who is almost certainly misinterpreting a vision she saw of Drogo's funeral pyre I really don't think it's such an important element.
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Dec 14, 2014 14:09
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Your Gay Uncle posted:The only blood magic we have seen actually work was from Targaryan blood. I don't know if it's Targaryan or Valayian blood that works, but it doesn't seem to matter since the Targs are the only Valaryians left. I don't think you can just yell out " I'm King of this house" and have your bloodcount as king's blood. Edric Storm's Baratheon blood might have worked on Stannis' leech curse, if that counts 
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Dec 15, 2014 17:31
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Calaveron posted:I am reading the third book and got to the part where Tywin tells Tyrion he's going to marry him off to Sansa, how it's his best shot because no one wanted to marry Tyrion, and man why in god's name did the richest man in Westeros have such a hard time marrying off his son? You'd think there would be lesser families tripping over themselves trying to ingratiate themselves to the Lannisters, even knowing that Tywin cares very little for Tyrion. you answered your own question.
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Dec 15, 2014 17:53
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loquacius posted:Edric Storm's Baratheon blood might have worked on Stannis' leech curse, if that counts Arguably Mel was just looking into the future. The way she phrases it though, it sounds like she can see multiple futures and maybe can direct it so a particular future is chosen (like Anathem).
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Dec 15, 2014 18:02
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Cirofren posted:Tywin didn't really want Tyrion to marry though. He wanted him to be irrelevant and not harm the name too much while Tywin works on getting Jamie out of his oaths and into making some heirs of his own. Exactly this. It's not even that he would have had to marry Tyrion to some nobody and "pay for the privilege". I am sure any secondary house allied to the Lannisters would have absolutely been thrilled to marry off a daughter to Tyrion, regardless of him being a dwarf. With Jaime in the Kingsguard, Tyrion is the sole heir to loving Casterly Rock. And women in this world are basically currency anyway, so it is not like most of these guys really give a tenth of a poo poo about their daughter's honor, especially if they have sons to produce their own heirs. And remember, Tywin married his cousin from a branch family, so it is not like he was 100% about making the most beneficial marriage every time to win the game of thrones. Tywin did not give a poo poo about Tyrion, so he didn't want to waste any effort at all to find him a suitable match. He might have done it eventually just to put an end to the boozing and whoring if he got annoyed enough, but otherwise he was happy to ignore him. He used Tyrion like a chess piece when he married him to Sansa, it had nothing to do with Tyrion's happiness and everything to do with the benefit to House Lannister. All the "this is your best chance" talk and whatever was just naked manipulation: "you are an ugly loving dwarf, take what you can get" mixed in with a little "well you want to help the family, don't you" to really sell it.
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Dec 15, 2014 19:18
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Tywin offered Tyrion to Elia Martell.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:25
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Mortabis posted:Tywin offered Tyrion to Elia Martell. And what a strange world they'd live in if they'd married. One of the fun parts of ASOIAF is definitely the intersection of soap-opera levels of family drama and geopolitics.
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Dec 15, 2014 20:47
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Dolash posted:And what a strange world they'd live in if they'd married. One of the fun parts of ASOIAF is definitely the intersection of soap-opera levels of family drama and geopolitics. This would have given Rhaegar's coup all the support he could need. The Dornish would have stuck with him I think, and so would have dragged Tywin into a more active role. Or, depending on how Daddy Stark's Sothron ambitions fit into Rhaegar's plans it would have tipped Westeros into an early civil war. Or the mad King would have had them all executed.
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Dec 15, 2014 21:30
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loquacius posted:Edric Storm's Baratheon blood might have worked on Stannis' leech curse, if that counts Baratheons have Targ blood, from their maternal grandmother I think. Very diluted at this point, but it's still there. That's why I think Stannis;s shadow baby worked.
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Dec 16, 2014 21:34
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Baratheons have Targ blood, from their maternal grandmother I think. Very diluted at this point, but it's still there. That's why I think Stannis;s shadow baby worked. Baratheons are like double-Targ. Their founder Orys Baratheon (who married the daughter of the last of the storm Kings after killing her father) was Aegon the Conqueror's best-mate and probable bastard-brother. Robert's grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen, one of Aegon the Unlikely's (Maester Aemon's younger brother) kids which makes him Dany's second cousin. Which I think makes the current Baratheon stock more Targ than Aegon totally-not-a-Blackfyre.
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Dec 16, 2014 21:59
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Double targ is a bit of a stretch given Orys Baratheon died over 250 years previous to events of the series. The Martells and Daynes have better claim to being related to the main branch of House Targaryen. However, following the logic that all possible male claimants take precendence over the females (sorry, Daenerys) and Jon and Aegon can be dismissed on grounds of doubt, this does make Stannis the legitimate claimant to the throne. Hail Stannis!
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Dec 17, 2014 01:27
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Talking about Stannis, I have a really bad feeling he won't survive the upcoming battle. There's NO way Bolton can lose the upcoming fight unless he decides "Hey, you know what would be cool? I'll just leave my huge heated fortress to go out and battle in the middle of a blizzard!" which, as we know is something Roose would never do (I know he sent out the Freys and some of Manderly's knights but most of his forces are inside WF). People often point out to me that Manderly is plotting treason but he's currently knocked out and Roose knows he's plotting to depose him so I don't see that working out well for him. Stannis has less men, is starved and his army's morale is plummeting rapidly, how the gently caress is he going to win? Not to mention Roose has one of the most formidable fortresses in the world. I hope they do the battle in S5 or at least show us what Stannis has up his sleeve. Because I think it's the end for him unfortunately.
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Dec 17, 2014 01:45
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I picked up The World of Ice and Fire and have been randomly reading up on histories, and two things jumped out at me: When the First Men arrived at the Iron Isles they found a throne sitting on a beach, which the author mentions as having sparked legends of a possible 4th race on Westeros... Mermaids and There was a hastily written note following the burning of Summerhall by some maester, however most of his words were lost as he spilled his inkpot over the letter. What is decipherable, however, heavily suggests that Duncan was able to save (a possibly mad) Aegon, which I hope lends credence to my theory that Duncan, Egg, and Little Duncan left Westeros to have adventures is other parts of the world 
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Dec 17, 2014 02:14
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BillBear posted:Talking about Stannis, I have a really bad feeling he won't survive the upcoming battle. There's NO way Bolton can lose the upcoming fight unless he decides "Hey, you know what would be cool? I'll just leave my huge heated fortress to go out and battle in the middle of a blizzard!" which, as we know is something Roose would never do (I know he sent out the Freys and some of Manderly's knights but most of his forces are inside WF). People often point out to me that Manderly is plotting treason but he's currently knocked out and Roose knows he's plotting to depose him so I don't see that working out well for him. Stannis has less men, is starved and his army's morale is plummeting rapidly, how the gently caress is he going to win? Not to mention Roose has one of the most formidable fortresses in the world. Is this book GoT, cuz I don't remember this from the show?
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Dec 17, 2014 02:15
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