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Veskit posted:I feel like if life insurance was something you needed then someone would have brought it up by now. Someone did, that's what made me think of it. However if you think I don't I'm definitely open to input.
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Dec 17, 2014 02:09
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Veskit posted:I feel like if life insurance was something you needed then someone would have brought it up by now. I think a newborn on the way and a wife with otherwise shaky career prospects is a superb reason to get life insurance. I don't know that 750k is really necessary though. I'd think 250 or 500 would be sufficient but it depends how long he'd want his family covered for in the event of tragedy. Knyteguy, are you taking out policies for both you and your wife, or just you as a primary earner?
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Dec 17, 2014 02:12
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Can you give more details on the insurance? That is more than I was quoted and I'm 28/M/non-smoker too. I haven't looked since July though. I also think it's extremely needed. His wife would be hosed if he died, and he if she. I'd say you probably should get 750k on you and 400-500k on her. Rule of thumb is 10x income. Nannies are frigging expensive. E: I wasn't thinking about differences state to state. I just pulled a quote for myself, Banner as the company, 20yr/750k, $28.88/mo=$330/yr. I put in NV and got the exact same rates too. Why are you so much more expensive?! SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 02:24
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Christ almighty yes, if you have a kid you need life insurance. For you and your wife both - just because she might not be working doesn't mean she isn't going to be pulling $$$$ worth of weight in taking care of the kid.
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Dec 17, 2014 02:25
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SiGmA_X posted:Why are you so much more expensive?! I can't project, but I can tell you past psychedelic use hosed up my premiums when quoted.
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Dec 17, 2014 02:34
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Yeaaaah, I'm not seeing anything wrong with life insurance to take care of his wife/kid if something happens to him, honestly. I do remember it being brought up by others in this thread before, and their arguments made sense to me.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:01
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I've seen it and my friends have lived it. Get life insurance if you have kids and aren't independently wealthy.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:06
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BossRighteous posted:Knyteguy, are you taking out policies for both you and your wife, or just you as a primary earner? Ideally both of us, but I think she'll be cheaper. I'd like my family covered for life if possible, especially if my wife continues to work. Her lifestyle would be more modest than ours currently is. SiGmA_X posted:Can you give more details on the insurance? That is more than I was quoted and I'm 28/M/non-smoker too. I haven't looked since July though. Tobacco use in the past 1-3 years and the death of a parent under 60 (it was heart related but I'm not sure it meets their criteria, currently trying to get clarification in the insurance thread). The only quotes I surely qualify for is "standard" here (worst level) w/ no tobacco use in the past 12 months: https://www.zanderins.com/term/instantquote.aspx One health level up it seems to be about $13 cheaper. Maybe I'm analyzing the situation incorrectly? E: Insurance thread tells me to call an agent. I will do so, because the early parent thing is non-natural apparently. So I guess let's consider the quote a good ballpark for now? Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 03:17
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Buying poo poo - no matter how boring sure gets Kynteguy going. God forbid he spend this time figuring out childcare or whether or not his wife will keep her job. If you end up spending $100/month to insure each other or whatever that's $1200 you could use for something that could actually happen. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html We've got a social safety net - despite not being a very good one, that if one of you died the other wouldn't starve. I don't think there is any reason to carry life insurance given your other much more pressing concerns.
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Dec 17, 2014 03:55
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n8r posted:If you end up spending $100/month to insure each other or whatever that's $1200 you could use for something that could actually happen. 
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Dec 17, 2014 04:03
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n8r posted:We've got a social safety net - despite not being a very good one, that if one of you died the other wouldn't starve. I don't think there is any reason to carry life insurance given your other much more pressing concerns. You know he's in the US, right? Also, have none of your friends ever had kids, then died? It's a serious bitch if you don't have any money. And, the weirdest thing, you can't control whether it happens!
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Dec 17, 2014 05:06
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n8r posted:Buying poo poo - no matter how boring sure gets Kynteguy going. Honestly this is what bugs me. In his mind he's a fantastic Min/maxer but in reality he's just really good at the Max part.
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Dec 17, 2014 05:22
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You guys do realize that people in FAR worse shape recover from KG level financial situations all the time. For families - especially single women with children there are pretty significant safeguards in place. KG's debt situation really isn't that dire either, he just needs to stop wasting so much drat money. Someone in KG's financial situation cannot afford to waste $1200 on such long shots.
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Dec 17, 2014 06:28
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I think it's relatively okay that knyteguy gets life insurance. I'm lucky enough to have 6x salary (12x if I die at work) free through my job. I paid for it prior to that. $60-$100 does seem pretty expensive. I do however also agree that knyteguy is always looking for something to spend money on. And it's one of his biggest problems. It's always something he has to have. He's got 10 reasons why the definitely need it (or why it was worth it if he already bought it). I guess it's better life insurance than a ps4. Or 3ds. Or whatever system he was wanting to buy a few months ago.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:22
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Don't buy life insurance until you figure out child care.
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Dec 17, 2014 14:23
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Knyteguy posted:Ideally both of us, but I think she'll be cheaper. I'd like my family covered for life if possible, especially if my wife continues to work. Her lifestyle would be more modest than ours currently is. While I do think you need life insurance, these posts made me curious about social security benefits death benefits so I looked up mine online and this is what I found. Using my numbers (you should check yours by registering online at ssa.gov because everyone is different), If I had a kid and I died when the child was under 18: 1. My spouse would be paid $255 one-time. 2. My spouse would be paid $2079 per month until the child turned 16. 3. My child would be paid $2079 per month until the child turned 18. 4. My total family benefit cannot exceed $4854 per month, so a second child would only generate another $696 per month and a third child would generate nothing. 5. The child benefits are generally non-taxable because of the way taxes work. So maybe you need less life insurance than you think. Droo fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 16:06
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What are the odds that KG has bought life insurance by the next time he posts in the thread? 50/50?
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Dec 17, 2014 16:44
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Droo posted:While I do think you need life insurance, these posts made me curious about social security benefits death benefits so I looked up mine online and this is what I found. My grandfather died when my mother was 8, and my grandmother setup a UTMA (maybe it wasn't a UTMA back then), into which she put all the money for my mom. It fully paid for my moms 5yrs of college and 2 degrees, living expenses, etc. Granted this was the late 60's/early 70's and my mom was savvy with money (read: cheap, she lived with her older sister while she went to college for the first 2yrs before meeting my dad).
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Dec 17, 2014 20:48
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SiGmA_X posted:Humm, that's rather interesting, and would reduce the needed AMOUNT of life insurance for KG, but possibly not so much for KGWife. I don't know what her death benefit would be, but the same situation would apply - if KGWife died then KG would get social security survivor benefits as well. Using my own numbers again, instead of $2079 per month that my wife would receive if I died, it would be $1893 per month if she died (times 2 for the child, just like my example above). This is because social security is incredibly progressive. Basically, when calculating social security they first adjust all past contributions by their inflation index so that all values theoretically look like 2014 values. Then they start adding up your contributions based on the following: 1. Calculate your average indexed monthly earnings (AIME) over the top 35 years of your working life 2. Add 90% of AIME up to $816 3. Add 32% of AIME between $816 and $4917 4. Add 15% of AIME above $4917 So in other words, comparing someone who averages 30k a year to someone who averages 100k a year: $30,000/12 = $2500. (0.9 * 816) + (0.32*(2500-816)) = $1273 $100,000/12 = $8333 (0.9 * 816) + (0.32*(4917-816)) + (0.15 * (8333-4917)) = $2559 So someone makes more than 3x as much and get about double the social security. My point is, even if KGWife makes significantly less money than he does, the survivor benefit won't scale directly to that ratio.
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Dec 17, 2014 23:06
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SiGmA_X posted:Humm, that's rather interesting, and would reduce the needed AMOUNT of life insurance for KG, but possibly not so much for KGWife. Full time nannies are spendy. They will need to run the numbers for both of them. I think some life insurance is needed anyway - burial costs, paying off debt, and setting up a safety net of some size. IMO. I agree with this. I can't do an SSA estimate on my income, because the social security office has my birth date wrong somehow, and I haven't gotten around to fixing it. The SSA office here sucks and I need to stop being lazy. Seeing this reminds me that I need to do this, so I'll make an effort to take care of this within the next month when I can take a vacation day, Luckily I have a passport with the correct information. Also guys I have child care all locked up, and I have had it locked up for a few months now. I've mentioned a few times in here my sister will be watching our kid guaranteed, and the price is around $300-$400/mo depending on how many days we actually need, which we can't really plan for yet since my wife's schedule is so dynamic. I've also posted scenarios where my wife stays home from work, which I feel like we all discussed pretty thoroughly with our current position. Other than that I'll lessen the insurance, but I still want life insurance. Maybe we can get it down to $30/mo or something and you know what if it's that big of a deal I'll take it from my discretionary. I've been bringing up my want for life insurance in here for months, though not as prominently as now. I've been thinking about this for awhile, and riding my bike home yesterday night gave me some time to reflect on it. That said thanks for the input both ways.
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Dec 18, 2014 02:52
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Utilizing family for child care can either be amazing or terrible. You know your family better than us. But be prepared to spend money on a per day rate if your sister bails or isn't feeling well, or flakes out for any other reason. Other than that you should probably be okay.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:21
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Bugamol posted:Utilizing family for child care can either be amazing or terrible. You know your family better than us. But be prepared to spend money on a per day rate if your sister bails or isn't feeling well, or flakes out for any other reason. Other than that you should probably be okay. Hm good point on the day to day thing. I'll try to sock a little away in anticipation. My sister is a nanny by trade though so I'm hoping she provides the same level of professionalism as she would any paying client. Also I think I missed saying it in my last post, but those ssa benefits are pretty great. I just want some extra money to ease the loss for my family if not for providing them a means to survive. A lot of input on here has me reconsidering is paying for my son's college for example, and ssa benefits wont cover that. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 03:49
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Knyteguy posted:Also guys I have child care all locked up, and I have had it locked up for a few months now. I've mentioned a few times in here my sister will be watching our kid guaranteed, and the price is around $300-$400/mo depending on how many days we actually need, which we can't really plan for yet since my wife's schedule is so dynamic. I've also posted scenarios where my wife stays home from work, which I feel like we all discussed pretty thoroughly with our current position. So what happens on that day when your sister is ill? Or out of town on Holidays? Or any number of other things which can come up and prevent her from doing it?
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Dec 18, 2014 04:00
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If your childcare is not available you take sick days or whatever your work offers. I'm curious what $300-$400 worth of childcare buys KG on a per hour basis. Is it buying 40 hours worth of childcare or 80? How is your sister going to provide for herself if you're only paying $10 / hour? Scanning back some old posts in the thread it seems like you wife is still making ~$13/hr? How is this going to pencil out so you're actually money ahead instead of just having you wife stay home. What are the details of your plan KG - saying you've got it handled is a lot different than explaining to people in here how you've got it handled. Another side question: how long have you been at your job? I'm guessing over a year at least? Is your resume/linkedin up to date? One way to really help your delivery/costs in general is to find yourself a better job with better benefits. Given your abilities you may be able to job hop pretty rapidly up the pay scale if you play it well.
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Dec 18, 2014 06:48
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n8r posted:If your childcare is not available you take sick days or whatever your work offers. I'm curious what $300-$400 worth of childcare buys KG on a per hour basis. Is it buying 40 hours worth of childcare or 80? Yep pretty much this. I get a week of sick time a year, and I can use vacation days if I need to do so as sick time. I've been at my job 2 years this coming May, so 1 year 8 months rounding up to January. I actually just updated my LinkedIn a week or two ago. My resume isn't up to date, but I can probably just copy my LinkedIn data pretty much exactly when I add my current job to it. I'm confident I could job hop, but that would probably involve moving. Reno isn't the best city for developer jobs. However I work with a pretty niche product at my current company, so if I continue to learn it there's a chance I could do what my boss does (and he is currently training me to do), and potentially contract like he does. He made $250,000-$300,000/yr for quite a few years @ $150/hr. That's like 40 hours of billable hours a week. So job hopping carries some long-term opportunity cost is what I'm getting at. If we save a whole bunch in benefits in the short term, we'd still need to consider that. My sister does full time schooling online, and with her current income she's getting Pell grants and stuff to help cover a little living expenses. Plus she lives with my mom so she doesn't have to pay rent. Also she also has a baby on the way due a couple weeks after us, so I think she'll do whatever she can to ensure she's getting pay from us. With my wife having a day off in the middle of the week it means we don't need a 5-day baby sitter. Plus we have help from my mom who is off on Fridays (though we can't rely on her every Friday), and both of our Grandmothers (emergencies). So probably closer to 3 days a week she'll need to watch our baby most days. As far as the math of my wife staying at home vs my wife working, it's actually pretty significant. Mostly because of insurance. I'll post the math in a following post since this is getting too long already.
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Dec 18, 2014 17:43
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OK looking back on November really put some stuff in perspective while trying to find that math post. I was way the gently caress stressed out (I can feel the tension I was feeling then just reading my posts), so sorry for lashing out at anyone. I think I did a poor job explaining some stuff back then. Like someone said I agree that moving was probably a baby practice run, and we did pretty poorly, but at the same time I would have been more open with everyone if everyone wasn't piling it on just right then. Or I should have stepped away from the forums for a day or two, because the banter back and forth didn't really help me, and it didn't really help any of you. Am I off here? Looking forward, when the baby comes I think I'll create maybe a "stress fund" of maybe $600? ($100/mo for 6 months?). This will be used for pizza if we just absolutely feel like we need it, couple hours at the hot springs, whatever. We could put $100/mo in there now from discretionary, and just bend the rules and fill up the rest when the baby comes. I was thinking we could just stick with our $150/mo discretionary (since we're supposed to get $200 according to budget) and boom that'll cover the savings. What do you guys think? No clue if this is some terrible idea or not, but I think a little breathing room will be helpful once the baby is here, especially since my wife will continue at her job (or at least continue working). Before everyone jumps on me about relieving stress without spending money, sure. But is $100/mo unreasonable for a little mental health fund on top of other stuff (we have a goal to take daily walks for example)? Again this will be MOSTLY funded out of our discretionary. I'm trying to be accountable here, and if anyone has other ideas please offer them up. I guess we could aim for $100/mo from each of our discretionarys now too, but I don't know if we can do that. Anyway moving on (hopefully no hurt feelings we all yell at each other in here right?), here's the math of my wife working or staying home vs working: Knyteguy posted:OK the formula talk got me thinking: Bold note: see!  (just kidding!  guys.)
Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 17:58
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Aren't you concerned that people said "how are you going to save money when your income goes down and your costs go up?" and you answered by saying "I'm going to spend more money."?
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Dec 18, 2014 18:04
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Horking Delight posted:Aren't you concerned that people said "how are you going to save money when your income goes down and your costs go up?" and you answered by saying "I'm going to spend more money."? Can you clarify? I'm not following here.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:08
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You're adding to your discretionary because your reaction to you might be stressed out by having a baby has now turned into I should spend more money. The gently caress is wrong with you sometimes knyteguy. No don't make a stress fund. if you're going to get life insurance then 100% do not increase your discretionary money also god drat.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:42
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Veskit posted:You're adding to your discretionary because your reaction to you might be stressed out by having a baby has now turned into I should spend more money. The gently caress is wrong with you sometimes knyteguy. The stress fund would be a discretionary savings fund, funded almost-to-fully completely by cutting discretionary now. Nowhere in that post did I say I was going to increase discretionary. In fact I said once the baby is here we may cut discretionary in half which more than covers life insurance. And I'm just throwing ideas out there.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:46
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Just use the blow money you have now to relieve your stress, don't add more confusion.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:54
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Knyteguy posted:The stress fund would be a discretionary savings fund, funded almost-to-fully completely by cutting discretionary now. Nowhere in that post did I say I was going to increase discretionary. In fact I said once the baby is here we may cut discretionary in half which more than covers life insurance. Knyteguy posted:Looking forward, when the baby comes I think I'll create maybe a "stress fund" of maybe $600? ($100/mo for 6 months?). This will be used for pizza if we just absolutely feel like we need it, couple hours at the hot springs, whatever. We could put $100/mo in there now from discretionary, and just bend the rules and fill up the rest when the baby comes. I was thinking we could just stick with our $150/mo discretionary (since we're supposed to get $200 according to budget) and boom that'll cover the savings. What do you guys think? No clue if this is some terrible idea or not, but I think a little breathing room will be helpful once the baby is here, especially since my wife will continue at her job (or at least continue working). You have your current budget, and then you increased your discretionary spending by 100 dollars, to call it your "stress fund" and then you also added in life insurance. Thus, you did increase your discretionary spending, while also increasing your overall spending. You can't just go well my discretionary spending is supposed to be 200 dollars each after adding life insurance gently caress dude. Stop playing mind games with us and yourself to increase your spending it's grading.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:58
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Knyteguy posted:Yep pretty much this. I get a week of sick time a year, and I can use vacation days if I need to do so as sick time. And what if your sister can't handle two newborns, when one of them is her own that she's caring for 24 hours a day? Or what if your mom can't handle having two babies in the house, when she's already had some coping issues? You REALLY need to price out child care, and have at least a month's worth in reserve. Your plan sounds terrible.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:59
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Veskit posted:You have your current budget, and then you increased your discretionary spending by 100 dollars, to call it your "stress fund" and then you also added in life insurance. Thus, you did increase your discretionary spending, while also increasing your overall spending. You can't just go well my discretionary spending is supposed to be 200 dollars each after adding life insurance gently caress dude. No I'm not trying to increase our spending. Look at all of the details. quote:Scenario 1: My wife stays at home while she picks up a new skill whenever she can (maybe 6+ mos), and not working at all. , and we priced Gold tier Healthcare.gov plan at ~$600/mo. Savings ~$600/mo after cutting discretionary by $100 ea/mo. We could potentially save $200/mo more if we chose the worst tier of insurance, and there are some plans in between. I'm still talking those exact same scenarios. I completely disagree that life insurance is discretionary. If you don't like the idea fine, but stop being a dick about it. It's literally a wash or even positive savings and no different than having an "entertainment, restaurant, motorcycle savings" instead of "discretionary savings". It's a little convoluted but people do that all the time to help keep spending in check on certain things. That's all I'm trying to do. I'm trying to accept the behavior that "I spend money when stressed out" and make it so it stays within the confines of the budget.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:11
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Knyteguy posted:No I'm not trying to increase our spending. Look at all of the details. I did. You increase you discretionary spending to 200 bucks each, then you take out 50 dollars each for a stress fund, and you buy life insurance. What am I missing.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:16
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April posted:And what if your sister can't handle two newborns, when one of them is her own that she's caring for 24 hours a day? Or what if your mom can't handle having two babies in the house, when she's already had some coping issues? You REALLY need to price out child care, and have at least a month's worth in reserve. Your plan sounds terrible. I've priced out child care already. It was awhile back, but it was around $700 per month. If we absolutely must use that child care then my wife will stay at home, and we'll be able to make a little up using cloth diapers. While working towards building some skills over the year or so, or the business takes off, or I freelance at night for $20-30/hr or something (maybe more, but I've made this much freelancing and I wasn't as skilled). Again though my sister is a nanny by trade, going to school for childhood development and childhood education, and wants to start a daycare. Scenario 1 though if absolutely nothing else works out. That'd be best for the family over the small amounts my wife may make part time at minimum wage + daycare and disposables. At least I think so.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:18
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Knyteguy posted:I've priced out child care already. It was awhile back, but it was around $700 per month. If we absolutely must use that child care then my wife will stay at home, and we'll be able to make a little up using cloth diapers. I wouldn't assume saving by using cloth diaper. From what I understand the first child and buying the set of diapers means you don't save all that much money. Plus this means your daycare provider needs to use them as well, and handle them, which is usually a pain. (Edit: I now hooked that you'll use them only if your wife stays home). Plus if you're out and about it's hard. So most of your savings on the initial kid are spent on disposables. Now second kid, you might save 50% or so if you're lucky. From the people I know, only the ones who really want to make it work keep doing it since it's quite a bit more of a pain.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:23
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Veskit posted:I did. You increase you discretionary spending to 200 bucks each, then you take out 50 dollars each for a stress fund, and you buy life insurance. What am I missing. Our discretionary should be $200/mo. Remember? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3586966&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=37#post435592821 We're now at a $300/mo grocery budget, and $150/mo discretionary. The discretionary being lower this month was only temporary to help ease the pain of a moving month. It should be $200. You'll notice too that our rent is higher in our budget than we actually pay, too. Our discretionary allotment has only been getting leaner over the months. So please stop telling me I'm trying to hide spending. I'm simply trying to come up with a plan of action that fits both our strengths and our weaknesses while making progress. If I wanted to spend whatever in discretionary money I'd close the thread up and stop posting. I think this thread would go more smoothly if everyone would stop trying to armchair analyze every single thing I do and come up with motivations, instead of just asking if I made a math mistake or something. I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to try.
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Dec 18, 2014 19:28
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MrEnigma posted:I wouldn't assume saving by using cloth diaper. From what I understand the first child and buying the set of diapers means you don't save all that much money. Plus this means your daycare provider needs to use them as well, and handle them, which is usually a pain. (Edit: I now hooked that you'll use them only if your wife stays home). Plus if you're out and about it's hard. So most of your savings on the initial kid are spent on disposables. Now second kid, you might save 50% or so if you're lucky. From the people I know, only the ones who really want to make it work keep doing it since it's quite a bit more of a pain. OK, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the insight. Diapers is pretty much the one cost I'm totally unsure about. I know cloth diapers new are roughly $75, and for used maybe $50 or so? Does anyone have anecdotal data on the cost of disposables? I should probably draw out a scenario 4 for wife staying at home and disposables, and just make it extra careful and go with prescription formula. I'll re-post the 3 scenarios plus the new one this evening. n8r maybe you're right, maybe I should try to swing into a new job. I'll reflect on it some more and start seeing what the local Craigslist is offering (Stackoverflow Careers sucks for this area).
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Dec 18, 2014 19:32
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Knyteguy posted:OK, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the insight. Diapers is pretty much the one cost I'm totally unsure about. I know cloth diapers new are roughly $75, and for used maybe $50 or so? Does anyone have anecdotal evidence on disposables? I should probably draw out a scenario 4 for wife staying at home and disposables, and just make it extra careful and go with prescription formula. I'll re-post the 3 scenarios plus the new one this evening. If you can get by with store brand diapers it might be cheaper, but keep in mind they might leak or not fit well, and just not be worth it. A newborn is going to go through quite a bit of diapers in a day, at least one per feeding plus additional. So ~20 a day, at $.10-.15, so $2-3 a day, roughly $50-90 a month to start depending on diaper cost. As your child gets larger/older they use less diapers, but they cost more. At a few years old the cost goes down more as they start potty training and such. I don't know much about cloth diapers and the costs, but they are usually $20-30 a piece, and you are going to need a bunch if you don't always want to be running the washing machine. Plus all the different sizes. You're talking into the thousands here. Apparently most kids go through roughly 7,000 diapers before they are potty trained. Average cost of say $.20, that means ~$1400 total. I think you should be budgeting at least $200 a month just for diapers/wipes/formula/pacifiers/incidental/disposable items. Edit: Even with cloth diapers you buy liners and inserts as well. MrEnigma fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 18, 2014 |
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Dec 18, 2014 19:39
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