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Oh man are you going to have a meltdown because people tried to explain why they're annoyed with the changes?
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Dec 17, 2014 07:06
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Hollismason posted:You can have more 6 squads of Jump Pack marines, what the gently caress is your deal are you stupid or don't understand math? Hollismason posted:Troops This. The blood angels players don't have these because they didn't need to have them before. This is what you keep glossing over..
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Dec 17, 2014 07:08
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Everyone jumping up in peoples poo poo, the gently caress is wrong with you people this is suppose to be fun.Ignite Memories posted:This. The blood angels players don't have these because they didn't need to have them before. This is what you keep glossing over.. Oh come the gently caress on.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:08
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Legit warhams question: Does anyone know how the FW extra armour for the Chimera is supposed to go on? I can't figure it out and even though it's horrible quality, malformed and full of super thin miscasts, I paid the $17 for the goddamn thing and I'm going to put it on this chimera. For the record, the back of this extra armour panel just doesn't have any obvious fit against the track panel on the chimera. I'm either going to have to scrape off a shitload of tiny plastic rivets and sand the resin down to get a good smooth section to glue, or hope that a hundred tiny contact points will hold up.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:10
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Hollismason posted:Everyone jumping up in peoples poo poo, the gently caress is wrong with you people this is suppose to be fun. Because you're blatantly disregarding why people would be upset with the new codex that invalidated half their army lists. Yeah, there's some cool stuff in the new book, but people still have valid reasons to dislike it, not the least of which being that the cool new formations aren't even in the main book, but are split across three magazines and a campaign book.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:10
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Hollismason posted:Oh come the gently caress on. This is some grade-A arrogant no-true-guardsman bullshit right here.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:12
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I think you're arguing across purposes dude. I find a lot of that stuff exciting and I've really dug the 7th ed releases. I was super excited for the Blood Angel release, I was thinking to myself that I could get those guys out of storage and play some games with them. I can't because they changed a whole bunch of fundamental stuff and the army they released is patently different to the one I bought, painted and was familiar with. I actually fear for the chaos release now because my army only has plague marines as troops and I'm pretty certain those Plague marines are going to get permanently shoved into elites.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:13
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People are melting down all over because blood angel assault marines no longer have Objective Secured? Could it be a necessary balance against a jump pack unit? Naw, it's Machiavellian GW Corporate twirling their mustache and rubbing their hands together over selling more marine-with-a-bolter kits! Hollismason is right, you lot are scared of change.JerryLee posted:It's not a strawman if it's a reasonably close analogy. Ok, how about this one? AbusePuppy posted:All Cult troops moved to Heavy Support slot.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:14
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koreban posted:Legit warhams question: Does anyone know how the FW extra armour for the Chimera is supposed to go on? I can't figure it out and even though it's horrible quality, malformed and full of super thin miscasts, I paid the $17 for the goddamn thing and I'm going to put it on this chimera. This has a bunch of forward facing pictures of it on the Chimera itself, maybe that will help? http://theminiaturespage.com/news/172896 Cataphract posted:I think you're arguing across purposes dude. I find a lot of that stuff exciting and I've really dug the 7th ed releases. I was super excited for the Blood Angel release, I was thinking to myself that I could get those guys out of storage and play some games with them. I can't because they changed a whole bunch of fundamental stuff and the army they released is patently different to the one I bought, painted and was familiar with. See I know that's coming and I'm not bothered by it because I know there will be some formations and Special Detachments that allow me to have more if I want them. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:16
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Hamshot posted:People are melting down all over because blood angel assault marines no longer have Objective Secured? Could it be a necessary balance against a jump pack unit? Necessary balance argument is totally valid. It still sucks a bag of dicks that I can't play with my stuff anymore.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:17
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Cataphract posted:Necessary balance argument is totally valid. It still sucks a bag of dicks that I can't play with my stuff anymore. But you can.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:18
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Hollismason posted:This has a bunch of forward facing pictures of it on the Chimera itself, maybe that will help? Thanks 
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Dec 17, 2014 07:18
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Hamshot posted:But you can.*
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Dec 17, 2014 07:19
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Are there even any remotely overpowered jump infantry in the game atm? Chaos Raptors I know aren't that great, everyone seemed down on Vanguard as well, and I don't really hear anything at all about assault marines from C:SM so I assume they're not worth using either.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:20
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Hamshot posted:People are melting down all over because blood angel assault marines no longer have Objective Secured? No.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:20
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Also, the Tactical Squads for the Blood Angels are arguably beyond better than the standard Space Marine army ones. Seriously, the squads the same base cost, but you get a heavy flamer of course and furious charge.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:21
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Like I said earlier, the biggest problem with the formation changes is that there is currently not a formation to run any currently existing version of the previous Blood Angels army without either having to buy new things you never needed before or going unbound. It's not even an obsec thing, it's just the option doesn't exist at all otherwise outside of 'buy more poo poo you didn't need before,' 'buy expensive poo poo to run a formation that's over half your army,' or unbound. Even if they came up with some other rule and eliminated obsec from the adjusted formation, having a formation that could play armies that were otherwise legal literally a week ago would have been nice.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:22
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What about my Iron Warriors Basilisk
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Dec 17, 2014 07:24
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There's nothing to buy, The Black Library usually releases the formations in White Dwarf for free, or just pick up the White Dwarf, it's got Cities of Death cards in it. The formation you want , Angels of Wrath is in there. It's the one that's 2 Assault Squads and a Vanguard Veteran squad. That's a loving crazy awesome formation. 2 Assault Squads that don't scatter when placed near the Vanguard Veteran squad and also can deal out a massive number of ST4 hits. That's kick rear end. Like seriously the Meteoric rule is great. Immediately after deploying, any enemy units within 6" of any units of this formation suffer a ST4 AP- hit for each of their models which is with in 6 inches of a model from this formation. In addition these enemy units must move as if they are in difficult terrain until the end of their next turn This part suffer a ST4 AP- hit for each of their models which is with in 6 inches of a model from this formation It's pretty a good rule, 5 models with in range of 10 models of this formation, take 10 ST4 hits. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:25
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Hamshot posted:But you can. Well in my army I have 3 10 man assault squads, a bike squad and a landspeeder squad that I'd usually run. That's 5 FA choices now... It used to be 3 troops and 2 fast attack; something that would fit a FOC. Now, yes, I can run unbound or invest in a few units of scouts and tacticals to run them across multiple detachments but surely you can see that I might be a little bit bummed that I'm in this situation. When folks get a codex update they should be saying "oh wow, I love the new units. I gotta get one for my collection". But there's no new units and a bunch of stuff has been invalidated.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:28
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JerryLee posted:Are there even any remotely overpowered jump infantry in the game atm? Ask panascope about vanguard vets deep striking in, immobilizing his maulerfiend and dancing around his backfield 0wning the hell out of his chaos stuff. (my only experience bringing vanguard vets, ever)
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Dec 17, 2014 07:28
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Woah, Blood Angels can't take Assault Marines anymore?
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Dec 17, 2014 07:29
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Hollismason posted:There's nothing to buy, The Black Library usually releases the formations in White Dwarf for free, or just pick up the White Dwarf, it's got Cities of Death cards in it. The formation you want , Angels of Wrath is in there. It's the one that's 2 Assault Squads and a Vanguard Veteran squad. Oh, I understand that part! The problem is that if a Blood Angels player wants anything else, it hits the CAD/Allied troops tax that got mentioned before. Since Assault Marines and Death Company were just basic troop choices before without any manipulation, most BA players don't have tacs or scouts. That adds an expense if you want to use anything outside that assault formation without proxying or playing unbound. From a game design perspective, I can honestly kinda get the change, I just don't like that the execution requires 'unbound or buy models you never needed before.' Like I said, I think the vast majority of the bitching wouldn't have happened if they'd included a formation that altered the FOC to require and lean on Fast Attack in exchange for losing obsec. Then you'd have a FOC that pre-existing armies would match without forcing new purchases. EDIT: As a Dark Angels player, I'd actually be totally down for losing the force org manipulation so long as the book included formations for Ravenwing and Deathwing out of the box. I think that's the entire issue, this update doesn't have any support for the long running BA Assault troop paradigm. Dulkor fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:29
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Well if anything it's a pretty good Codex: Chaos Space Marine 4th Edition simulator, enjoy the streamlined design.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:31
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Cataphract posted:Well in my army I have 3 10 man assault squads, a bike squad and a landspeeder squad that I'd usually run. That's 5 FA choices now... It used to be 3 troops and 2 fast attack; something that would fit a FOC. They don't scatter, you ungrateful wretch. How dare you.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:34
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Day One loving DLC. And necessary supplements. I started this dumb hobby on Blood Angels, and this isn't tempting me back in.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:35
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honestly this is great because i remember how annoying it was when Chaos lost the legion rules. you could say i am enjoying this because "3.5 Chaos was poo poo and needed changing" and yet this is somehow different.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:38
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Somebody called me into the thread earlier. Here's my perspective. Can my genestealers take feeder tendrils, implant attacks, or enhanced carapaces? Can my warriors take spinefists, fleshborers, enhanced carapaces, or leaping? Can my carnifexes use 2 guns as was standard for a decade? Can they take rending claws, deathspitters, chitin, carapace, or enhanced senses? Can I take flesh hooks on any of my non-character units? When will I be allowed to use the grenade rules again? What about the Parasite of Mortex? Can I take that? Can I take Ymgarl Stealers? Is there a formation or DLC pack that lets me use my now illegal 4000 points of army?
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Dec 17, 2014 07:39
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Cataphract posted:Well in my army I have 3 10 man assault squads, a bike squad and a landspeeder squad that I'd usually run. That's 5 FA choices now... It used to be 3 troops and 2 fast attack; something that would fit a FOC. Why not just try out the formation and see if you like it. Angels of Wrath Formation 10 Assault Marines 10 Assault Marines 5 Vanguard Veterans HQ Troops Scout Squad w/ Land Speeder w/ Locator Beacon Scout Squad w/ Land Speeder w/ Locator Beacon Fast Attack Bike Squad 5 Assault Marines Nothing scatters on Deep Strike. I mean do you not own scouts? Blood Angel Scouts are pretty rad now, they get furious charge, come with 4+ armour, why would you not want to use a 11 point troop Objective Secured Squad that's like that? Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:41
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You are unfathomably dense.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:44
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Hollismason posted:Nothing scatters on Deep Strike. I mean do you not own scouts? I can't speak for Cataphract, but this is exactly the problem for the majority of BA players I know of (obviously I can't extrapolate too much from that, because, y'know, anecdote and all, but still). Pretty much everyone used DC and Assault Marines as troops. Now they literally can't run anything outside of unbound or stacking very specific formations without any support units unless they buy more models that they never actually needed to own before.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:45
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Hamshot posted:People are melting down all over because blood angel assault marines no longer have Objective Secured? Could it be a necessary balance against a jump pack unit? And no, jump infantry don't need to be "balanced." Jump pack units cost almost the same as Bikes do, but don't get +1 Toughness, don't get Relentless, don't get the free better-than-normal weapon, don't get Hammer of Wrath, and don't ignore terrain when charging. There's basically no reason to ever buy a jump pack when you could take a bike instead. Hollismason posted:See I know that's coming and I'm not bothered by it because I know there will be some formations and Special Detachments that allow me to have more if I want them. Or they won't, because BA didn't, either. Hollismason posted:Also, the Tactical Squads for the Blood Angels are arguably beyond better than the standard Space Marine army ones. Seriously, the squads the same base cost, but you get a heavy flamer of course and furious charge. The Heavy Flamer is cute, but not all that relevant as you'll usually want an anti-tank weapon. Furious Charge is what they get in place of Chapter Tactics and is typically inferior to it- I would argue that the Ultramarines, White Scars, and Imperial Fists CTs are all probably better than the Blood Angels one, although if you're only looking at their effect on Tactical Marines it's not by a large margin. The +1I bonus in the special detachment, on the other hand, is actually quite powerful, but that has other balancing factors with it. Hollismason posted:I mean do you not own scouts? In fact, I don't. They didn't fit well into my "all units have jump packs" army that I was running and that you still seem unable to grasp the concept of.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:45
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Gonna guess he doesn't own scouts. Or tacticals. Like most BA players don't, and are now being told they must if they want a FoC-legal army, good thing this handy dandy kit just happened to come out by some strange coincidence to service this new artificial need. Come on, figure it out
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Dec 17, 2014 07:47
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That is a pretty sweet Tactical Box, it's got a gently caress ton of stuff on those sprues, which is pretty cool , plus the new bases. The poses are a lot better as well. I'm thinking of actually getting it even if it does have all the Blood Angels icons. You can get 10 scouts on ebay for like 15 to 25 dollars, there. Done. Now pay your troop tax like everyone else. AbusePuppy posted:
Fine your life is over. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 07:51
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You're doing the Emperor's work here, Hollismason, really good stuff.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:52
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It is a pretty nice Tactical Squad box.
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Dec 17, 2014 07:56
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Goons ITT begrudgingly admit change in your emotional state the result of an outside stimulus; unable to conceive of a no-scout scenario
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Dec 17, 2014 08:00
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I think it's going to be great when the rest of the Exterminatus stuff get's released and there's a formation that's all jump pack. This is really cool Captain w/ Angels Wings Angels Wrath Vanguard Squad Assault Squad Assault Squad Reroll Scatter on the Vanguard, Vanguard land, Assault Squad lands with in 6 with no Scatter. Probably not as good as a Webway portal, but pretty sweet to pin point place your Meltaguns and the Meteroic rule that can wipe out a squad since it's per model. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 08:04
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It's been 2 years since I last played 40K, and I've fallen on hard times financially, so I've finally decided to sell off all my 40K stuff, but have absolutely no clue as to what I should ask for it all. I spent a huge chunk of my evening going through my stuff, a lot of which is still in it's sprues, and the majority of the models that are assembled are primered black. I'm wanting to sell it all at once, and not piece it out, as my schedule is hectic as hell, and I'd never get around to it. Click below for a wall of pictures, and a list of what I have : http://imgur.com/a/yjsDK As you can see, it's all Space Marines, with a mixture of Dark/Blood Angel specific models. Any suggestions as to what would be a fair to charge for it would be greatly appreciated! I'm likely going to take it to eBay, unless someone has a better suggestion as to where I could post it. I'm gonna miss my Warhams, though I'm going to keep the handful of models I actually finished painting...
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Dec 17, 2014 08:16
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iRoNgHosT posted:It's been 2 years since I last played 40K, and I've fallen on hard times financially, so I've finally decided to sell off all my 40K stuff, but have absolutely no clue as to what I should ask for it all. I spent a huge chunk of my evening going through my stuff, a lot of which is still in it's sprues, and the majority of the models that are assembled are primered black. I'm wanting to sell it all at once, and not piece it out, as my schedule is hectic as hell, and I'd never get around to it. Please consider a donation to the Blood Angels players here who have fallen on hard times, for only a few normal Tactical Space Marines or a Scout squad, you can get them back to rolling dice and living a full life as a Warham, after you send your donation in you'll get a fuzzy photo shop manipulated dick pic so you'll know that the Warham received your donation. Your donation will stop the tears of sadness. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 08:22
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