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It seems super hard for Hollismason to understand, but here's an analogy just for him; I have never had any desire to own Pyrovores for my Tyranids. They are lovely and ineffective. If GW was to shift it around so my only troops choices were Rippers and Pyrovores, I'd be mad as hell. Why? Because that's not my narrative for a Tyranid swarm. I like being able to field my swarms of gaunts alongside Carnifexen to smash through enemy lines, not Ripper Swarms and near-useless Pyrovore explosions killing off my own Rippers before they can even cross the center of the board. Hell, my narrative was already slapped in the face pretty drat hard when GW doubled the points cost of the base Carnifex back in 5th, because the new Trygon kit just game out. I was furious, since the 9 Carnifexen I had assembled and painted were practically useless in comparison to the new kit. Not the same, but it isn't too far off. BA players are being forced to retire a large chunk of their armies because GW want to sell the new BA tactical squads. They stopped the army working the way their fans liked playing it and are forcing tactical squads and scouts upon them, which looks pretty similar to how Trygons were forced on me back in 5th when 'Fexes were given the middle finger. Assault Marines were a big part of their chapter identity, especially considering their Primarch had wings. Cataphract posted:When folks get a codex update they should be saying "oh wow, I love the new units. I gotta get one for my collection". But there's no new units and a bunch of stuff has been invalidated. 
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Dec 17, 2014 16:19
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Diggin' this. Are the LW/BS part of the kit now, or are they still hilariously overpriced bits?
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Dec 17, 2014 16:24
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spacegoat posted:Diggin' this. Are the LW/BS part of the kit now, or are they still hilariously overpriced bits? They are part of the kit now, you get 3 sets of 2 bone swords and 3 lash whip arms. It is a really flash sprue now. I haven't assembled any nids since 4th ed and the new kits are a pleasure.
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Dec 17, 2014 16:37
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I never knew people cared so much about Assault Marines of all things. 
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Dec 17, 2014 16:56
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Wait aren't vanguard veterans the guys with assault packs? Doesn't that mean that the formation posted earlier of assault marines and vanguard veterans mean you can field an all-jetpack army with a bunch of special rules?
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Dec 17, 2014 17:00
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Sykic posted:I never knew people cared so much about Assault Marines of all things. I think people care about out-of-nowhere, unwarranted changes to a unit that had a heavy focus in their previous codex, yes, no matter what the unit is called.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:01
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spacegoat posted:Diggin' this. Are the LW/BS part of the kit now, or are they still hilariously overpriced bits? Thanks. LW/BS are finally in the kit. If they weren't I'd have made them by hand. Here's an update with the next Warrior I just finished with a better look at the Boneswords: 
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Dec 17, 2014 17:02
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Curses, I thought I was being clever with trying to buy a pair of Scion legs and torso for my sole remaining hotshot lasgun set, but when I find an affordable French bitz store with good shipping prices there is no torso pieces available at all.  Although it's slightly funny that the shipping costs from Australia is cheaper for me than ordering the same bitz from the UK.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:03
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Mange Mite posted:Wait aren't vanguard veterans the guys with assault packs? Yes. Without ObSec For extra cost to get the formation rules AND codex. Needing HQ and 2 troops still if you don't want to be unbound.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:03
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Lord Twisted posted:Yes. So in other words all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about GW throwing my entire army into the trayash is over buying an extra book and two boxes of troops to be battleforged and not unbound? OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 17:07
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Mango Polo posted:I think people care about out-of-nowhere, unwarranted changes to a unit that had a heavy focus in their previous codex, yes, no matter what the unit is called. And also a a six-fold increase in the price of rules. Mange Mite posted:So in other words all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about GW throwing my entire army into the trayash is over buying an extra book and two boxes of troops to get some other special rules? Rapey Joe Stalin posted:...we should all be fine with paying out ~£152 ($239 US) on rules so that we can use an army which cost £25 for the rules last time round. Because dataslates and formations are that great. He also thinks we should then be okay spending another £97 ($152) on new model kits to make up for the 'or whatever' gaps those rules still leave.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:10
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Yes, apparently all the Blood Angels players played all Assault Troops all the time, which is a loving terrible army. The entire army got Furious Charge and a Detachment that gives them the old furious charge, and got better Tactical Squads. The Assault squads got better as well. The options you have as a army now with the multiple different detachment types is awesome. Now there's multiple very viable ways to play the army and people are complaining.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:11
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All the codexes sound retardedly overpriced, but why not just keep playing 6th edition then?
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Dec 17, 2014 17:12
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That Fleshtearers Strikeforce is pretty impressive 
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 17:13
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PierreTheMime posted:Thanks. LW/BS are finally in the kit. If they weren't I'd have made them by hand. Nice. How are you running these guys? It's tempting to put all the biomorphs on them as they're a point-sink to begin with, but I'm thinking AG might not be worth it over/in addition to TS. I also see people recommending Rending Claws in addition to the Boneswords, but I'm not sold on that.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:14
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Mange Mite posted:All the codexes sound retardedly overpriced, but why not just keep playing 6th edition then? Hollismason posted:Because in the grim darkness of the future there is only endless tears and the whining of Assault Marine troopless Warhams. gently caress off.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:22
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Mange Mite posted:So in other words all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about GW throwing my entire army into the trayash is over buying an extra book and two boxes of troops to be battleforged and not unbound? Doesn't this come to around $130 to continue playing Blood Angels? Also having to make cuts and additions you didn't need/want? To put it bluntly, that $130 could buy you a Warmachine starter army. Games Workshop is doing a pretty good job of pricing themselves out of the market.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:23
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spacegoat posted:Nice. How are you running these guys? It's tempting to put all the biomorphs on them as they're a point-sink to begin with, but I'm thinking AG might not be worth it over/in addition to TS. I also see people recommending Rending Claws in addition to the Boneswords, but I'm not sold on that. Lashwhip, Bonesword, Scything Talons, Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks. Attached to a Prime with the same. WS6 I7 S5 AP3 attacks are nice.  While Furious Charge is nice, the real reason for AG is Fleet, since you need to be near-guaranteed a good run roll the turn they arrive and a good movement/assault roll when they attack. Toxin Sacs is not especially important unless you believe you're going to be coming up against Wraith* models or other tough units and against MEq it's essentially wasted. The change to Poison means that S4 against T4 doesn't reroll to wound and T4 is the most common Toughness out there, so you're wasting points more often than not. Rending Claws is okay, but again it depends on who you're targeting. S5 on a charge is good enough to glance/pen most vehicles in assault and if you are really hoping that a ~17% chance for the AP2/an extra d3 is going to save you, you probably shouldn't be assault that target anyway. It's not terribly expensive, but its also not terribly useful. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 17:23
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Every time an issue like this is brought up the yeasayers try to dismiss it individually, like "oh well an all assault marine army is stupid so you should just deal with it because you bought a stupid army", and no matter how many times we explain that it's part of a larger pattern of disrespect to the consumer they never seem to get it. The assault marines aren't really what we're bitching about. It's the pattern of behavior. We say things like "these changes are indicative of a general toxic approach to business" and get back crap responses like "no you're wrong about assault marines because now you can buy this and this instead" or "you're overreacting, just resign yourself to having lovely scoring units if you don't want to spend another $150" It's such a willfully ignorant response.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:39
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It's not about assault marines, it's about ethics in tabletop gaming.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:40
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Marginalize the consumer all you want, but a business that drives away its customers deserves to fail.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:43
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For real though you should just say "I'm mad because these prices are getting ridiculous and you have to keep buying stuff" instead because focusing on one particular and honestly pretty minor issue because to you personally it's the straw that broke the camel's back just makes you sound kind of nuts.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:44
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Can't wait for the next SM update. Let's remove troop bikes and keep them locked in FA. Unless you get the White Scars supplement AND this sexy new formation, hmhm yeah~~
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Dec 17, 2014 17:45
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We are constantly saying that. Assault marines are the most recent instance of this behavior, and the reason we're talking about it today. How do you not get it still?
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Dec 17, 2014 17:46
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Ignite Memories posted:We are constantly saying that. Assault marines are the most recent instance of this behavior, and the reason we're talking about it today. How do you not get it still? Because most people naturally tune out people who complain that x is too expensive.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:48
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Ok? So maybe just acknowledge that you want to waste more money on this than some other people might. These models are a significant time investment, as well as financial. Just because you don't have poo poo you'd rather be spending your time and money on doesn't mean that it's good business practice for GW to invalidate other people's purchases and time investment.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:51
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I am just grateful I bought a bucket load of black reach orks back in the day. I can put together any new models from plasticard and ebay rescues. Ya'll need to stop playing armies that require money. I was pissed off that I can no longer run all biker armies without going outside the codex. I feel greasy playing unbound armies. I got so few secure objectives cards last time that I can't help but think obsec isn't worth worrying about.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:58
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Are you out of your loving head? You just had a Major campaign release that's all about playing your army and having fun with it. Like the release is literally dedicated to nothing but Blood Angels and their struggle. It's not even finished. Exterminatus still has to come out and it has 20 more formations. Like what? " I don't want to play awesome thing"  That's what so aggravating about it. You just got a major release, tons of new options for your army that are still on the way and you are complaining. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 17:59
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"This problem is larger than the blood Angels issue" "But guys, don't you see how great the blood angels are gonna have it when you alter your collection to fit the requirements of these cool new rules?" Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 18:02
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The release isn't even finished.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:03
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Hollismason posted:That's what so aggravating about it. What's so aggravating is that you don't get the loving point.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:03
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goons posted:Retiring chunks of army because of a rulebook update Oh boo loving hoo. Anyone who has been in the game for a while has this happens every edition change or rulebook update. I started playing mechanized IG and razorspam GK and both those armies got poo poo on when 6th dropped and are completely useless in 7th with the AM/GK codexes. I get to look at my three hydras, six assault cannon razorbacks, nine chimeras,a ton of custom melta/plasma guardsmen, trip rifledreads, and 60 GK power armor guys and sigh. My manticores got shelved because I couldn't protect them anymore from all the great long distance shooting Tau and Eldar could put out. Tau had to swap all their railsides to missilesides, Nids had to pick up flyrants and crones, marines needed bikers and centurions, Deldar need scourges like woah, it happens every release and if you chase the meta at all you wind up doing this all the time without even army hopping. The game changes, it is a good thing.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:07
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The fact that this is happening to everybody is exactly the loving problem, not a mitigating circumstance. Or are you really that completely defeated? So thoroughly stockholmed that you see your hundreds of dollars of wasted investment as a good thing?
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Dec 17, 2014 18:08
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I will go ahead and just call Shield of Baal Exterminatus releasing some type of formation or detachment allowing all Jump Pack marines, then the bitching will be how they have to buy the expansion.Ignite Memories posted:The fact that this is happening to everybody is exactly the loving problem, not a mitigating circumstance. It's happening because of the Objective secured rule, they don't want Jump Pack marines having it, they don't want Nob bikers having it. They're moving everyone away from this and making Troops actually USEFUL. They're making up for it through the release of supplemental volumes of campaigns which are awesome and formations. Get used to it this is the par for the course for the rest of the game. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 18:09
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Hollis, I just got back into the hobby for reals this year and every time you post you are so exasperatingly obtuse and argumentative that it kind of makes me regret that decision just a little more inside. If I had come into this thread looking to start playing at this time, this flame war would quite likely have contributed to me deciding not to get into it again, and you are the number one cause of that with your blatant refusal to see past the party line and weird need to keep sticking your dick into the beehive. Think about this for a second: you are actively making people not want to participate in a hobby that is supposed to be fun and which is the entire focus of this thread.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:11
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Dude, I'm the one arguing that we should not be endlessly bitching about these things and am enthusiastic about like Everything. Maybe you should go back and read what is actually going on. Cause it's like a bunch of posters bitching about getting cool new things and not liking changes.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:14
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Ignite Memories posted:The fact that this is happening to everybody is exactly the loving problem, not a mitigating circumstance. Its been happening for 20 years.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:14
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As someone who hasn't played their first game yet, if my first opponent was like Hollismason I'd seriously consider quitting the hobby.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:16
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Ignite Memories posted:The fact that this is happening to everybody is exactly the loving problem, not a mitigating circumstance. It's not an investment. Investment implies you will get a reasonable return on your money. It's a collection. And collections sit on shelves or sold when they aren't getting used. And yes. The same thing happens in any game with a competitive component that gets new content. Now useless stuff gets shelved until it comes back. At least with models you get something cool to look at for a while until it becomes useful again (or turns into parts for terrain/basing) instead of boxes of cards or something you mouse over in your player storage. An Angry Bug posted:As someone who hasn't played their first game yet, if my first opponent was like Hollismason I'd seriously consider quitting the hobby. Someone who is enthusiastic about the new release instead of crying about GW going for a money grab/ruining the game/faction/gently caress this I quit? You are a strange person. e:\/\/\/\/ That sounds about right. We have had a few people quit 40k to go complain about other games.\/\/\/ Naramyth fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Dec 17, 2014 |
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Dec 17, 2014 18:20
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 01:47 |
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This is only somewhat related to the extended conversation going on here, but I have some friends that run a game store and they constantly update me with how 40k is dying in their area and Dust is blowing up. My buddy has just recently told me that it feels like all the people who rage quit GW (or 40k specifically) are winding up in these other groups and then just bring their bitching and complaining to those groups. He calls them "Dust Busters". It makes me chuckle to be honest. So he was talking about people on a FB group about Dust comparing Dust to 40k and complaining about GW (you know... the usual). So I decided to go look. It's kind of like a traffic accident with a fatality for me. You don't WANT to look, but you kind of HAVE to look... anyway I came across this really eloquent post: quote:40k has 2 meny faults in it now and its a money pit becose of how much u need and the stuped priceing for it £25+ for 5 man box or £30+ for 3 man box it nuts, even the look of the modal now, they get more statice with each new set dust on the other hand looks great they look like there doing something, at the end of the day a 5 year old could tell that 40k is rubbish and needs an over hall every thing in the origanle post is right i have played 40k for 16 years it is not what it used 2 be far from it there is no fun left in the game for me be cose i spened most of my time in the rule book looking up useless rule i have not got passed tern 3 i god nows how long and that ant have a bad player to go agest its just slow I'm not typically one to rip on someones spelling or grammar during a post. But Jesus Christ... I think this only gets this bad if you are TRYING.
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Dec 17, 2014 18:22
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