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spacetoaster posted:I'm totally willing to overlook the decades of executions (judicial and extra-judicial), torture, etc, etc if I can get a cheap new vacation spot where it's warm. I'm assuming that's why all of you are so cool with this possibly going down too? I'm excited for the Cuban people to finally be able to vacation in Miami, too.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:14
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Puerto Rico is already a pretty sweet pretty warm vacation spot. I don't think anyone's salivating over normalized relations thinking of all the sweet Cuban sandwiches they can eat now.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:30
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greatn posted:I don't think anyone's salivating over normalized relations thinking of all the sweet Cuban sandwiches they can eat now. Speak for yourself buddy.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:45
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spacetoaster posted:I'm totally willing to overlook the decades of executions (judicial and extra-judicial), torture, etc, etc if I can get a cheap new vacation spot where it's warm. I'm assuming that's why all of you are so cool with this possibly going down too?
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Dec 18, 2014 23:59
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MariusLecter posted:Speak for yourself buddy. Ironically, Cuban sandwiches outside Cuba are way better than the ones in Cuba. The roast chicken and pork, though? That's gotta be in Cuba, because for most of the best stuff, you need access to sour oranges instead of some ersatz combination of lime and orange juices. Food's definitely getting better down there, largely due to the capitalistic influences of the paladares. There are now restaurants in Havana that I would consider better than anything I can get in the city of Calgary, and holy gently caress isn't that just embarrassing (or, if you're Cuban, a reason to have a lukewarm feeling of pride)? EDIT: In further "holy poo poo, isn't that ironic?" news, I was actually in Cuba watching CNN when I first heard about the NSA surveillance scandal. Yeah, the mean commies won't let people have sat-phones, but the defenders of freedom are equally likely (and much more capable) of monitoring transmissions. Not to mention that the US government would disable GPS and possibly a great deal of the Internet infrastructure they control if they saw a valid national security reason to do it, which is something the Cubans cannot do if people are allowed access to sat-phones. This is an eventuality they have to consider when living a short way from a superpower that has been trying to gently caress them over for more than half a century. PT6A fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 00:00
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Northjayhawk posted:Rand Paul has now weighed in. The only candidate on the GOP side who might be a reasonable option said that the embargo has not worked, and that opening up trade is probably a good idea. The Cuban voters and also playing to the, "Obama did it, so it is the worst thing ever," portion of the Republican electorate.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:08
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spacetoaster posted:I'm totally willing to overlook the decades of executions (judicial and extra-judicial), torture, etc, etc if I can get a cheap new vacation spot where it's warm. I'm assuming that's why all of you are so cool with this possibly going down too? Yeah you should definitely take a vacation to the United States! The last execution in Cuba was 2003, torture probably hasn't happened since the 60s (except in Guantanamo).
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Dec 19, 2014 00:13
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Yeah you should definitely take a vacation to the United States! Nope, doesn't fit the cheap. edit: Also we do a lot of our extra-judicial executions in other countries, so you gotta check the list.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:15
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:torture probably hasn't happened since the 60s (except in Guantanamo).
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Dec 19, 2014 00:35
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V. Illych L. posted:Havana Club is a legit rum. It's easily the best in its price range and it boggles my mind that you yanks don't have it readily available. Havana Club is very good, but Flor de Caņa is more than adequate as a substitute.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:47
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I have no evidence to support this belief TheImmigrant posted:Havana Club is very good, but Flor de Caņa is more than adequate as a substitute. Flor is good but its gotten a lot more expensive in the past couple of years since they launched a big US marketing campaign.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:50
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Mans posted:The United States has neither cheap hotels nor great beaches, specially compared to what Latin America has to offer. This deal isn't in Cuba's favor at all. US has great beaches, and Cuba is not at all cheap for tourists. Great place to visit still, despite awful food and expense. Best Cuban food is in Miami.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:59
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Yeah but it's probably true. I'm not even gonna say my totally unfounded assertion is definitely true, just probably true. Like, 51% true.
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Dec 19, 2014 01:05
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greatn posted:I don't think anyone's salivating over normalized relations thinking of all the sweet Cuban sandwiches they can eat now. I'm more salivating over the chance to have access to Cuba's fauna for research purposes. 
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Dec 19, 2014 01:21
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420DD Butts posted:I'm excited for the Cuban people to finally be able to vacation in Miami, too. Don't they do that already?
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Dec 19, 2014 01:53
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spacetoaster posted:Don't they do that already? Tough to get a B visa when there's no US embassy in your country.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:00
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TheImmigrant posted:Tough to get a B visa when there's no US embassy in your country.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:03
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greatn posted:Puerto Rico is already a pretty sweet pretty warm vacation spot. I don't think anyone's salivating over normalized relations thinking of all the sweet Cuban sandwiches they can eat now. Yeah, but Puerto Rico isn't synonymous with "sex tourism" like Cuba is.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:27
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So, how is Cuba going to afford to purchase 100k barrels/day of oil, when Venezuela ends the subsidy? That's a whole lot of cigars to export.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:35
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There are more people in this thread supporting the continuation of the embargo that I thought there would be.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:35
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Grapplejack posted:There are more people in this thread supporting the continuation of the embargo that I thought there would be. And the Washington Post editorial board described the "worst-case scenario" being that Cuba transitions into a Vietnam in the Caribbean. That's the worst-case scenario? That sounds like a pretty good scenario. Do they not realize Vietnam is transitioning into a soft, defacto ally? But I can also see why a particular brand of leftist would fear that, too. I wonder how the socialist groups are taking it. It's got to cause some whiplash. In their minds, Cuba is the last unreformed and defiant symbol of the old Marxist way, when Cuba has been trying to move away from that for awhile. And now it's breaking bread with the big, bad guy. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 02:45
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420DD Butts posted:I'm more salivating over the chance to have access to Cuba's fauna for research purposes.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:53
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Omi-Polari posted:Do they not realize Vietnam is transitioning into a soft, defacto ally? Vietnam has extenuating circumstances, namely: a big country just to its north that has openly stated claims on territory Vietnam also claims. Cuba does too, but for some reason I don't see that particular case lending itself to becoming a "soft, defacto ally" in quite the same way.
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Dec 19, 2014 02:59
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Vietnam has extenuating circumstances, namely: a big country just to its north that has openly stated claims on territory Vietnam also claims.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:08
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N00ba the Hutt posted:I'm really excited for the possibility of being able to more easily communicate with scientists in Cuba. It's possible for Americans to visit for educational purposes now, but there are a lot of hoops to jump through, and there's little incentive for Cuban scientists to publish in the English language journals that are more widely read here in the States. As a consequence, I think there are some pretty wide gaps in knowledge that can be patched with a little talking back and forth. I had a chance to chat a bit with some Cuban fisheries scientists and managers at a conference in Mexico this year and I was really impressed with the quality of their research and fishery management schemes. Light years ahead of most of the Caribbean, but then, I suppose it's a bit easier to do some serious regulation in a command economy... Either way, it'll be good to just open the flow of information back and forth a bit more, especially for researchers who work in the Caribbean. Yeah, being the largest island in the Caribbean and yet being mostly cut off from the free flow of scientific knowledge from the US is a real shame. As it stands, I'd have an incredibly difficult time collaborating with researchers in Cuba to do any kind of ecological field work, but if relations are normalized there will be a great wealth of experience available to both countries and a lot more opportunity for researchers to move back and forth. It's exciting times, for sure.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:09
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N00ba the Hutt posted:I'm really excited for the possibility of being able to more easily communicate with scientists in Cuba. It's possible for Americans to visit for educational purposes now, but there are a lot of hoops to jump through, and there's little incentive for Cuban scientists to publish in the English language journals that are more widely read here in the States. As a consequence, I think there are some pretty wide gaps in knowledge that can be patched with a little talking back and forth. I had a chance to chat a bit with some Cuban fisheries scientists and managers at a conference in Mexico this year and I was really impressed with the quality of their research and fishery management schemes. Light years ahead of most of the Caribbean, but then, I suppose it's a bit easier to do some serious regulation in a command economy... Either way, it'll be good to just open the flow of information back and forth a bit more, especially for researchers who work in the Caribbean. I'm also wondering about the Cuban medical community. I've always read about how Cuba's medical schools are very competent and produce a a lot of quality physicians. How long before some of those doctors make their way into the U.S. health care system? Could they be a huge benefit in making up for the scarcity of general practitioners.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:11
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Omi-Polari posted:The United States has claims on Cuban territory? Let me introduce you to this little-known place called Guantanamo Bay.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:19
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VitalSigns posted:Let me introduce you to this little-known place called Guantanamo Bay. The US has no claims beyond a leasehold at Guantanamo Bay.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:33
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radical meme posted:I'm also wondering about the Cuban medical community. I've always read about how Cuba's medical schools are very competent and produce a a lot of quality physicians. How long before some of those doctors make their way into the U.S. health care system? Could they be a huge benefit in making up for the scarcity of general practitioners.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:38
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Is it really a lease if the owner has no way to assert any rights over the property save starting a war and the original agreement was forced to get out from under a military occupation?
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Dec 19, 2014 03:38
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VitalSigns posted:Is it really a lease if the owner has no way to assert any rights over the property save starting a war and the original agreement was forced to get out from under a military occupation?
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Dec 19, 2014 03:39
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Oh, there's no way the U.S. is giving up Gitmo. But the idea that the U.S. and Cuba are going to fight a war over it is sort of insane, and both governments and their defense ministries know it. I'm sure its status will be in the cards once bilateral negotiations come up in a few years, though. As a comparison, British negotiations with China over Hong Kong is more appropriate that comparisons to disputes between Vietnam and China over sea territory. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Dec 19, 2014 |
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Dec 19, 2014 03:44
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So I'm not all the way up on my history on the subject, but... is there really any way people can be mad about normalizing relations with Cuba on a human rights basis of some sort, when America does like billions of dollars worth of trade with Saudi Arabia, a country that still executes people for sorcery?
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Dec 19, 2014 03:53
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VitalSigns posted:Is it really a lease if the owner has no way to assert any rights over the property save starting a war and the original agreement was forced to get out from under a military occupation? Yes, it is. Unless Cuba wants to nullify their independence from Spain, then they're more than free to force Gitmo from our cold, eternal grasp.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:56
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ChairMaster posted:So I'm not all the way up on my history on the subject, but... is there really any way people can be mad about normalizing relations with Cuba on a human rights basis of some sort, when America does like billions of dollars worth of trade with Saudi Arabia, a country that still executes people for sorcery? Source: Aladdin
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Dec 19, 2014 04:06
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ChairMaster posted:So I'm not all the way up on my history on the subject, but... is there really any way people can be mad about normalizing relations with Cuba on a human rights basis of some sort, when America does like billions of dollars worth of trade with Saudi Arabia, a country that still executes people for sorcery?
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Dec 19, 2014 04:08
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ChairMaster posted:So I'm not all the way up on my history on the subject, but... is there really any way people can be mad about normalizing relations with Cuba on a human rights basis of some sort, when America does like billions of dollars worth of trade with Saudi Arabia, a country that still executes people for sorcery? Sadly we don't have a lobby of Saudi ex-pats convincing Congress that SA is the awful place that it is when it comes to basic human rights. Instead we have the Israel Lobby telling Congress that they need to vote for continuing to let them bomb poor people.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:11
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VitalSigns posted:Let me introduce you to this little-known place called Guantanamo Bay. We control Guantanamo. We have no claims on anything we don't control.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:13
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I think he meant to say that the current Cuban regime has never agreed that the US has legitimate claims on Guantanamo Bay.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:14
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think he meant to say that the current Cuban regime has never agreed that the US has legitimate claims on Guantanamo Bay. Yeah, but that's a lot different than the China situation where China claims things that other nations currently have - there's no real risk of the Guantanamo situation coming to blows. Frankly once relations thaw enough I expect we'd hand it back, we don't really need coaling stations anymore.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:21
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