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Kaal posted:
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Dec 21, 2014 07:00
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Yawgmoft posted:Is it blaming the victim when you blame their superiors for increasing the likelihood of harm?
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Dec 21, 2014 07:04
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Yawgmoft posted:Is it blaming the victim when you blame their superiors for increasing the likelihood of harm? Uh yeah. It's still victim blaming.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:05
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They shouldn't have worn out the community's trust.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:07
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StabbinHobo posted:This guy was clearly a scumbag opportunist looking for some way to go out looking better than "guy who just murdered his girlfriend"
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Dec 21, 2014 07:08
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Thundercracker posted:Uh yeah. It's still victim blaming. How so? Rent-A-Cop posted:I think it's disingenuous to blame anyone for the acts of a lone nutter. This guy had some kind of break with reality that made him into a kamikaze in search of a target. If it wasn't two cops who got killed it would have been someone else. Agreed. Unless this guy has a manifesto somewhere, the guy's actions are really haphazard and don't really seem to have a pattern or purpose.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:38
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In the PNW we dealt with this when a guy ran up in a Forza Coffee and merked 4 cops before they could react. Consequences included: -A manhunt across multiple counties resulting in the suspect being killed without a chance to surrender (fair enough I suppose, but of course there were the usual "he was driving away/I saw him make a motion for his waistband" fake justifications) -A long memorial parade of cops from many different states blocking traffic for hours as they cruised the streets of Lakewood like a convention of mobsters -People replacing their porch lights with blue LEDs, so that no more cops would be murdered -A bunch of the suspect's friends and family being sentenced to years in prison for "harboring" him -Nothing e: Oh and Mike Huckabee got flak for pardoning him in 2000 
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Dec 21, 2014 08:19
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Remember kids, never call the cops even if you think that someone needs help. The cops never help:quote:It started when a friend concerned for Chadwick's emotional well-being called Missouri City police to Chad's Sienna apartment where he'd been distraught, drinking and unknown to anyone, had gone to sleep in the bathtub. But here's the real beauty of it all: quote:But while Chadwick was cleared by both a grand jury and a petit jury, unless he wins an unlikely appeal, his civil lawsuit won’t even get to a jury. Last month, a federal district court judge dismissed every one of Chadwick’s claims on summary judgment, finding that the claims either didn’t amount to a constitutional violation or that the government entities he sued were protected by sovereign immunity — the prosecutor by absolute immunity and the individual officers by qualified immunity. The opinion includes this surreal (but, unfortunately, legally accurate) line: Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 08:33
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People are already spreading around a petition to get DeBlasio removed from office. Absolute madness.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:05
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KomradeX posted:People are already spreading around a petition to get DeBlasio removed from office. Absolute madness. e:nm
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Dec 21, 2014 09:10
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KomradeX posted:People are already spreading around a petition to get DeBlasio removed from office. Absolute madness. What insane leaps of logic does one need to do to change "sometimes I fear for my son's safety, there needs to be reform" to "I want police officers to get killed"?
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Dec 21, 2014 09:14
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Yawgmoft posted:What insane leaps of logic does one need to do to change "sometimes I fear for my son's safety, there needs to be reform" to "I want police officers to get killed"? Because that is the assigned strawman for anything other than full-throated support. They were saying it before these police were killed, now they just get to go in front of cameras and say it.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:17
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I think it's disingenuous to blame anyone for the acts of a lone nutter. This guy had some kind of break with reality that made him into a kamikaze in search of a target. If it wasn't two cops who got killed it would have been someone else. I wish people wouldn't say stuff like that in regards to murders like this. I don't think this guy or the Boston bombing guy or that cop who went on a rampage out in Cali, etc are "lone nutters." To say so is a way of dismissing everything and not trying to figure out why in America problems are solved by violence again and again and again. Especially this one. Guy said on instagram he was going to go kill cops today. If he was Muslim and said the same thing we'd be calling it a terrorist attack. I don't really think people making ideological killings are people who "just snapped." Yawgmoft posted:What insane leaps of logic does one need to do to change "sometimes I fear for my son's safety, there needs to be reform" to "I want police officers to get killed"? Cops live in a really weird bubble where not agreeing with them all the time is the same as wanting them all to get shot in the streets. And they wonder why the public doesn't like or trust them? axeil fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 09:33
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Yawgmoft posted:What insane leaps of logic does one need to do to change "sometimes I fear for my son's safety, there needs to be reform" to "I want police officers to get killed"? They don't like he responds positively to the black community. Like this is and people have a disturbing near fascistic tendency to just support the police without question. People are calling De Blasio pathetic because of Pataki's "sick twitter burn"
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Dec 21, 2014 09:46
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Trabisnikof posted:
That's absolutely absurd.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:50
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So when are the NYPD going to arrest De Blasio/De Blasio's friends/family on made up charges?
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Dec 21, 2014 10:01
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axeil posted:I wish people wouldn't say stuff like that in regards to murders like this. I don't think this guy or the Boston bombing guy or that cop who went on a rampage out in Cali, etc are "lone nutters." To say so is a way of dismissing everything and not trying to figure out why in America problems are solved by violence again and again and again. axeil posted:If he was Muslim and said the same thing we'd be calling it a terrorist attack. I don't really think people making ideological killings are people who "just snapped."
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Dec 21, 2014 10:08
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:So when are the NYPD going to arrest De Blasio/De Blasio's friends/family on made up charges? I imagine the police department will stage a coup at least by New Years
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Dec 21, 2014 10:09
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:So when are the NYPD going to arrest De Blasio/De Blasio's friends/family on made up charges? Apparently there's no constitutional protection against this, even though protection against arbitrary and coercive government is the entire loving point of the piece of paper.
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Dec 21, 2014 10:10
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axeil posted:I wish people wouldn't say stuff like that in regards to murders like this. I don't think this guy or the Boston bombing guy or that cop who went on a rampage out in Cali, etc are "lone nutters." To say so is a way of dismissing everything and not trying to figure out why in America problems are solved by violence again and again and again. Precisely. Even if the perpetrators are acting alone, their actions are part of a very clear and disturbing pattern that is pretty much unique to America. And this pattern is merely a symptom of deep and fundamental problems in American society -- problems that are becoming worse everyday.
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Dec 21, 2014 10:12
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There are going to be so many more Mike Browns and Eric Garners thanks to this rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 21, 2014 10:27
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Watermelon City posted:There are going to be so many more Mike Browns and Eric Garners thanks to this rear end in a top hat. That's what pisses me off the most. He just condemned dozens of peaceful protesters and random people walking down the street to extra-judicial police execution now.
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Dec 21, 2014 10:30
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KomradeX posted:I imagine the police department will stage a coup at least by New Years Nah, the idea is that you arrest then release over and over or stage raids on the "wrong" address. It's easier to target family members and friends of family members than De Blasio directly. For instance, how would they feel if their secretary can't show up because the police made an "honest mistake" and raided their apartment, and whoops, looks like we destroyed all their possessions in the process! Better yet, target their kids. 
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Dec 21, 2014 10:39
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Rand alPaul posted:That's what pisses me off the most. He just condemned dozens of peaceful protesters and random people walking down the street to extra-judicial police execution now. It's always because of something. I'll be interested to see the shooting statistics from this point forward. Oh that's right, there are no reliable police shooting statistics!
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Dec 21, 2014 10:45
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Rand alPaul posted:That's what pisses me off the most. He just condemned dozens of peaceful protesters and random people walking down the street to extra-judicial police execution now. That sort of assumes that the police have no choice but to resort to such brutality in response and also absolves the police of responsibility for their brutality. Incitement only goes so far, any increase in such acts is the fault of those who commit them.
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Dec 21, 2014 10:54
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Kaal posted:Agreed. Those two cops weren't any more "tragic heroes" than the guy who got strangled to death while quietly working to feed his wife and six kids, but you can already see the media warming up for a sloppy police BJ story. As someone who has lost a friend who was a police officer to an ambush, gently caress you. I hope you never need the police. Maybe if Eric Garner had looked for as many jobs as he had arrests for selling loosies, he would be alive.
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Dec 21, 2014 13:59
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Psikotik posted:As someone who has lost a friend who was a police officer to an ambush, gently caress you. I hope you never need the police. Maybe if Eric Garner had looked for as many jobs as he had arrests for selling loosies, he would be alive. You're both acting like callous shitheads, tbh.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:04
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Psikotik posted:As someone who has lost a friend who was a police officer to an ambush, gently caress you. I hope you never need the police. Maybe if Eric Garner had looked for as many jobs as he had arrests for selling loosies, he would be alive. Eric Garner was just increasing liquidity in the tobacco market and filling a demand of the people for individual cigarettes.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:06
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Psikotik posted:As someone who has lost a friend who was a police officer to an ambush, gently caress you. I hope you never need the police. Maybe if Eric Garner had looked for as many jobs as he had arrests for selling loosies, he would be alive. I hope I never need the police either. I'm in New Orleans staying with a friend who an hour before I arrived had some methed out white dude try to break into her apartment, it's been about 14 hours now and the cops have yet to show up. I'm very thankful they haven't.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:10
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Psikotik posted:As someone who has lost a friend who was a police officer to an ambush, gently caress you. I hope you never need the police. Maybe if Eric Garner had looked for as many jobs as he had arrests for selling loosies, he would be alive. What a delightful America you're imagining. If you don't want to be murdered by police in broad daylight, then you'd better have a job. You're like the Johnathan Swift of bootstrapping. Also, as someone who lost a friend, you'd think you could maybe use some basic human empathy and not blame Eric Garner for his own murder.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:16
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Naked Lincoln posted:What a delightful America you're imagining. If you don't want to be murdered by police in broad daylight, then you'd better have a job. You're like the Johnathan Swift of bootstrapping. Do you need a larger shovel to put words into my mouth ? The police didn't walk up to Eric Garner with murder on their mind like the guy in Brooklyn who shot two police officers last night. I have plenty of empathy and I am all for second chances, but putting yourself in a stupid situation for the 32nd time and something tragic happening is your own fault.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:26
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When the MIT officer was killed in the aftermath of the Boston Marathon bombings, people insisted on calling him a hero. Knowing Sean as a person, the only words that seemed appropriate were some form of "tragedy" that an innocent, loving, and genuinely good person was killed for no reason. Hearing him described as brave or heroic is sickening, especially when he was idly sitting in his patrol car, when it completely ignores the human being he was and lifts up his public service to blind hero-worship simply because he was a cop. When someone pushes for calling these officers brave, heroes, and whatever else for what amounts to being assassinated unknowingly it serves no purpose other than to further some abstract goal of public opinion completely orthogonal to the victims as people.Psikotik posted:I have plenty of empathy and I am all for second chances, but putting yourself in a stupid situation for the 32nd time and something tragic happening is your own fault. 
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Dec 21, 2014 14:32
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30.5 Days posted:I apologize for misunderstanding the case, then, but it seemed as though they were saying that if probable cause for a search arises entirely out of a misunderstanding of the law then the search is still valid. Seems as though an officer can always, then, justify a search. The misunderstanding has to be objectively reasonable. "I thought that the law required BOTH your tail lights to work" is a mistake a lot of people (myself included) could make. Compare with "I totally didn't know I needed a warrant to bust down that guys door." SCOTUS isn't as unfailingly pro-police as people are making them out to be. Compare this case, for example, with the recent cell phone case (with which I agree) that says you have to get a warrant to look through someone's smartphone.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:40
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Psikotik posted:Do you need a larger shovel to put words into my mouth ? Indeed, after a certain number of nearly harmless misdemeanors such offenders should be expunged for the good of all! Let those criminal scum know the righteous, choking hand of Justice! P.S. Keep digging that hole dipstick.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:43
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Rhesus Pieces posted:That's what's really galling about this to me. McCullough must know he's untouchable, so he's just standing up and giving everyone both middle-fingers, gloating about committing outright injustice as a state prosecutor. Normally I would say it's not uncommon to have a witness give "unexpected" testimony, and sometimes you have no choice but to put on a witness who would probably lie because part of their testimony is true. (Eg. I'll use one of my own cases...brother of victim in gang shooting was eyewitness. Can verify how many shooters, what shooters wore, how his brother died, etc. etc. but when asked "Did you recognize any of these men?" will say "Nope!" because snitches get stitches. We knew he was lying about that, but he was telling the truth about other things, and the jury will be instructed that they are free to believe all, some, or none of a victim's testimony.) HOWEVER, the diary entry was all kinds of red flags, and I doubt I would have called that particular witness. The one thing I will say in their (mild) defense, is that at least they included the racist diary bits to help the grand jury decide how credible she was. I doubt her testimony was taken seriously.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:53
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Psikotik posted:Do you need a larger shovel to put words into my mouth ? No, they walked up to him with oppression and bullying on their minds. The prevalent attitude cops take to men like Garner is to put them down. They saw him not as a fellow citizen and instead as a dog that might need to be put down. Not much of a difference between that and outright murder. What does that have to do with a reprisal killing halfway across the city? Both would have been prevented by proper policing and respect for life.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:13
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Psikotik posted:Do you need a larger shovel to put words into my mouth ? Eric Garner is just as dead as those two police but guess which dead bodies are going to be treated with actual respect by the justice system. I'm not sure why low level crime involving evading taxes means you are putting your life on the line unless you are making the implicit assumption that cops are animals that can't control themselves from randomly killing people through incompetence and/or malice. Those cops didn't deserve to be shot, but the point of a justice system that treats people equally is that people are satisfied with the results. When you blatantly and callously treat certain people worse and others better, and then mock the ones that are being screwed, eventually this sort of thing is going to happen. That guy pulled the trigger, but institutional racism on the part of the police and justice system of America set up these events. I really don't want people to think I'm excusing the murders or anything, Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 15:33
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Counterpoint: Eric Garner is now a nationally recognized name. Contrast with "two dead cops". Without googling, what are their names? I don't know.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:35
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Psikotik posted:Do you need a larger shovel to put words into my mouth ? You don't need murder in your mind when you're just a cog in the oppression machine. Just keep bullying people and oops one day a black guy dies. No biggie.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:35
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ActusRhesus posted:Counterpoint: Eric Garner is now a nationally recognized name. Contrast with "two dead cops". Without googling, what are their names? I don't know. I'm pretty sure we'll all know in a week. Also Garner being a nationally known icon is because he's become a symbol of police violence and immunity from prosecution. I'm sure most people in the US don't know who John Crawford is or the kid who was killed in Utah for holding a fake samurai sword (I admit I forgot without looking him up). Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 15:36
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