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Most of what they call math in grade or high school is really just numbers. It's like instead of English you took "words" classes for 12 years. Unless you went to a particularly good high school it tends to leave you horribly unprepared for any higher math. Desuwa fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 03:28
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Desuwa posted:Most of what they call math in grade or high school is really just numbers. It's like instead of English they you took "words" classes for 12 years. This is absolutely true. What most schools teach as mathematics is really just tedious clerical busywork. It's a shame, because mathematics is really loving interesting. If we taught it closer to how we might a course on philosophy, students would a) be more engaged, and b) do better at university level. I encourage anyone who hasn't to read "Lockhart's Lament". I found it to be very cathartic.
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Dec 20, 2014 03:54
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The Evil Thing posted:This is absolutely true. What most schools teach as mathematics is really just tedious clerical busywork. It's a shame, because mathematics is really loving interesting. If we taught it closer to how we might a course on philosophy, students would a) be more engaged, and b) do better at university level. Of course, a flipside to this is that there's a lot of basic stuff that everyone uses that really is tedious clerical busywork. There's only so many ways to do arithmetic, and it's a vital skill that absolutely everyone has to master because it's used every day. Furthermore, because schools have to cater to the lowest common denominator, most school math involves making absolutely sure that everyone understands these basic, fundamental operations. And that requires repetition and rote memorization.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:15
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I think the response to that in the aforementioned mathematician's lament is that you may as well just use a calculator if that's all you're going to use math for. Teaching math "correctly" is just an impossible scenario. There aren't nearly enough qualified teachers to pull it off, and it'd require restructuring the entire curriculum (and all associated subjects like physics) and changing the public consciousness. The current system is staggeringly awful and perpetuates a constant stream of students who finish their education despising the subject, but at the very least it's feasible. EDIT: "It sucks, but at least it's possible" is the basis behind any sort of standardized institution, really. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 05:25
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DrSunshine posted:Of course, a flipside to this is that there's a lot of basic stuff that everyone uses that really is tedious clerical busywork. There's only so many ways to do arithmetic, and it's a vital skill that absolutely everyone has to master because it's used every day. Furthermore, because schools have to cater to the lowest common denominator, most school math involves making absolutely sure that everyone understands these basic, fundamental operations. And that requires repetition and rote memorization. I quite agree. Obviously, we need to teach people the basic skills to operate in modern society, and learning addition, subtraction etc. is no different from learning how to read, to use Desuwa's analogy. Multiplication is not something that naturally explains itself to us, so we genuinely do have to learn times tables by rote. Similarly, by the time we get to subjects usually covered in English, students already know how to read and write the alphabet, how words are spelt and basic to intermediate grammar. I don't expect a 10-year-old to do bracket expansion, but neither do I expect them to understand semicolon use. Equally, I'm struggling to think of examples where I'd actually need bracket expansion for just about any non-STEM occupation. Learning matrix multiplication was a PITA, and I doubt I'll ever encounter it again without seeking it out. SOH CAH TOA? Carpentry could be fun I guess. Secants? Unless you're planning on navigating a ship by the stars... Anyway, I dare say that's the core of most people's objection to modern mathematics education.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:38
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Maths is pretty interesting but the boring clerical step-following does put all but the more motivated people off. That being said maths isnt for everyone. Its one of those subjects that requires real passion out of the person in question when you do get to the higher end of it all. Any ways what 'intelligence' is representing in the gamer seems more like intuition than anything else. The speed at which you can process and get the gist of information. Like when super fast arithmetic is mistaken for a true grasp of mathematics or some nebulous definition of intelligence. The difference between it and wisdom is that wisdom comes with forethought and hindsight. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Dec 20, 2014 |
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Dec 20, 2014 16:43
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Desuwa posted:Most of what they call math in grade or high school is really just numbers. It's like instead of English they you took "words" classes for 12 years. It's really more about the teachers. Some math teachers really want you to understand what and why math is, others just want to herd this particular group of shitheads through another semester. Same with every class, really. I nearly failed my last English class because the teacher wanted to do a creative writing class but kept marking down my papers because I had "awkward sentences" when I was trying to write natural dialogue.
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Dec 20, 2014 17:15
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The Evil Thing posted:This is absolutely true. What most schools teach as mathematics is really just tedious clerical busywork. It's a shame, because mathematics is really loving interesting. If we taught it closer to how we might a course on philosophy, students would a) be more engaged, and b) do better at university level. So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it?
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Dec 21, 2014 07:12
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Soylentbits posted:So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it? Seconding this. I multiply large numbers in my head when I have nothing else to do and I've still never really gotten into the whole "greater beauty of math" thing.
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Dec 21, 2014 07:22
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I'd recommend cryptography as a math thing that's fun, I just finished an elective in it and it was full of "oh wow, that makes a lot of sense!" moments. Learning how RSA encryption works is surprisingly entertaining. EDIT: gently caress am I a nerd. This is a thread about a comic about a korean high schooler who gets video game powers, and I'm recommending recreational math.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:33
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Soylentbits posted:So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it? Check out Khan Academy. No matter what level you are at, from grade-school to early-mid undergraduate there is a lot of great stuff on there presented in a way that's both easy to follow, and interesting.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:39
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Less a suggestion for learning math and more for learning to appreciate it: read Math Girls. It captures part of what I enjoy about math better than any other work I've consumed. I suppose it might be the only I'm aware of that tries. Also apparently there's more than one volume? I'll have to look into that.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:40
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Soylentbits posted:So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it? I guess it depends on your sense of aesthetics and fun. Decision theory and game theory explore some interesting problems about human behaviour; mathematical analysis is all about making numbers and more abstract ideas do neat stuff; geometry is all about shapes and how they interact. A common analysis problem in a university first year exam would be "prove that the set of real numbers is uncountably infinite in size". Yes, proofs exist that you could memorise by rote, but it's not solvable by an algorithm students just plug numbers into.
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Dec 21, 2014 09:54
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Soylentbits posted:So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it? Grab something about "Discrete Math" or "Computational Geometry". Both have quite a few direct and interesting applications without requiring high mathematical theory.
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Dec 21, 2014 11:09
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So, like the integral of one over cabin d cabin is log cabin, right? That was actually on a kinematics exam I had a VA Tech. The grad student teaching the course had gotten his MS at UVA and was getting his PhD at VA Tech. One of the questions involved a "roll of toilet paper" UVA diplomas set against a wall with graduation about to start. How much force at what angle is required to start the graduation process. So, I guess math can be fun. I like simple things like calculating the formula for converting degrees C to F and such, calculating the formula for the volume of a cylinder, and how far a baseball thrown at such and such an angle with some initial velocity would travel. Anyway, maybe an increased Wisdom would help solve word problems like "If Bobby has 5 apples and Rebekah eats 3 apples, how many apples are left?" Hard to tell with game statistics because it's primarily all made-up poo poo anyway. Like really? Increased INT means a larger mana pool? Where is this actually proven in real-life? As far as I know, there's no such thing. For all we know, increased fat in your body means more mana (I think Robin Hobb has a book series that has this theme, really). Each game tends to treat stats different per type -- although they all generally follow the same basic set of rules -- probably established by the first MMO's out there. Maybe for The Gamer, it's that the rules existed via Gaia and game developers followed the "rules" without really knowing why. This manhwa is highly entertaining, but I could do with less training and more action. This last chapter seemed to indicate that Han Ji Han was more or less a complete physical bum prior to getting his Gamer ability and didn't do any martial arts or real physical training. He has zero fighting experience -- except for now he's practiced against undead and ogres. His best friend is rightfully concerned about Han Ji Han going out into the PvP world. We all know that's a completely different story all together too. Usually, when starting PvP you get your rear end handed to you by who have been doing it for a while before you catch on.
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Dec 21, 2014 13:41
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Dan7el posted:Anyway, maybe an increased Wisdom would help solve word problems like "If Bobby has 5 apples and Rebekah eats 3 apples, how many apples are left?" I've heard INT and WIS described as analogous to Strength and Dexterity, so a high INT lets someone memorize things quickly and then apply those things, while WIS is more linked to being clever and lets someone think through problems that aren't just solvable by a known formula. That said in D&D it's pretty much the exact opposite so who knows.
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Dec 21, 2014 14:01
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Soylentbits posted:So...any suggestion for learning non-clerical math for the fun of it? I'd suggest taking a stab at mathematical logic, also known as symbolic logic. It's a way of turning ordinary sentences into mathematical symbols and equations that can be analyzed logically. I find it fascinating and really helpful for reasoning, and the nice part about it is that it kind of "contains itself" -- it has everything you need to learn it, from first principles, so you don't need to know anything else, like geometry or algebra or calculus, to get started on it.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:33
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Thanks for the options. I've been through law school so logic isn't really a huge issue for me. Kind of hard to argue with math in novel and game theory form. That's sounds fun. But will doing these things increase the amount of fireballs I can shoot?
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Dec 21, 2014 23:44
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Soylentbits posted:Thanks for the options. I've been through law school so logic isn't really a huge issue for me. Kind of hard to argue with math in novel and game theory form. That's sounds fun. But will doing these things increase the amount of fireballs I can shoot? No, you'll have to get an industrial economy degree for that.
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Dec 22, 2014 01:20
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Just found this thread, today, and marathoned all 66 chapters. Holy poo poo this series is awesome! How often does it normally update? I know someone mentioned on the last page that updates have been slow lately due to some family issues with the author. Is it normally like a chapter a month, or a page every couple of days, or what?
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Dec 22, 2014 05:46
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Captain Bravo posted:Just found this thread, today, and marathoned all 66 chapters. Holy poo poo this series is awesome! How often does it normally update? I know someone mentioned on the last page that updates have been slow lately due to some family issues with the author. Is it normally like a chapter a month, or a page every couple of days, or what? It's about once a week, so you won't have to wait long. However there's more of a focus on the powering up than plot, so it takes a while to get from point A to point B storywise sometimes.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:48
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Ice Phisherman posted:It's about once a week, so you won't have to wait long. However there's more of a focus on the powering up than plot, so it takes a while to get from point A to point B storywise sometimes. Gamers do love their power climb followed by power trips. 
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Dec 22, 2014 10:32
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I just love the fact that he's the most realistic main character I've seen in a long goddamned time. "Oh, I've got super awesome powers and poo poo? Well, I'm probably still going to need a job, but I'd kind of like to use this power I have to help people out some, since doing that is pretty easy actually." Plus the way he works his powers to create new poo poo out of thin air really strokes the spergin' gland inside the D&D portion of my brain that's been dormant for so long. 
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Dec 22, 2014 10:38
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Ice Phisherman posted:It's about once a week, so you won't have to wait long. However there's more of a focus on the powering up than plot, so it takes a while to get from point A to point B storywise sometimes. Theres not going to be any plot. It'll be another 40 chapters of him grinding followed by 1 chapter of him beating everyone because he's so overpowered
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Dec 22, 2014 11:16
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Jose posted:Theres not going to be any plot. It'll be another 40 chapters of him grinding followed by 1 chapter of him beating everyone because he's so overpowered Yeah, it's like the author knows that a story's supposed to have conflict, but hasn't quite figured out what that's supposed to mean.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:44
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So far the only reason he hasn't been killed is because the two murder wizards are around.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:46
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Personally I feel like the plot is the grinding.
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Dec 22, 2014 22:06
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Personally, I feel like its the exact same as every other shounen thing ever, barring (good) exceptions, except it's more obvious. Every anime/manga ends up with a huge training arc that takes dozens of chapters and then the hero goes out and he's more powerful than anything else because he's the protagonist and that's just how it is. And if they aren't the most powerful in the world then it goes to another training arc after the current bit is done. In this it's just literally grinding, instead of just 'training arc'.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:20
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All of the stuff with numerical stats and stacking passives satisfies a shameful nerd itch.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:30
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There was a bit at the beginning where he was looking at different foods to see how they buff him and restore health. Later he was trying to quickly eat a loaf of bread and a carton of milk when he was damaged. I want to see more of that stuff.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:37
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There's a new one out: http://mangacow.co/The-Gamer/67/?all In this episode we get a history lesson.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:15
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Well that was mostly indecipherable. I appreciate the translator putting out work quickly but I don't know poo poo about Korean mythology and all of those clan names just start running together when I have no frame of reference to differentiate them.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:19
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At least Jee-Han's eyes were glazing over too, so we're not alone in getting lost. Cool to see a little more of the background. And way to freely give out important and potentially dangerous information, Jee-Han! You'll feel terrible if you just called out another hit squad on Sung-Ah. 
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Dec 25, 2014 21:59
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Yeah why the gently caress did that moron shout it out?
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Dec 25, 2014 22:52
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I think he still hasn't fully grasped the fact that his barriers are able to be easily entered by other people.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:32
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I like that France, Germany and Europe are considered separate factions.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:16
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The Evil Thing posted:I like that France, Germany and Europe are considered separate factions. To be fair, the French and Germans probably have similar feelings about the EU.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:18
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Poor Australia, South America, Africa, and Antarctica.
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Dec 26, 2014 11:36
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The Evil Thing posted:I like that France, Germany and Europe are considered separate factions. That's honestly kind of a clever political jibe. It's true in real life too.
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Dec 26, 2014 11:49
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I kind of love how in Korean comics whenever some world spanning organization is brought up Korea is always one of or the strongest countries.
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Dec 26, 2014 16:04
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