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Lightning was objectively the first ff female protagonist, and I'm glad of it
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Dec 22, 2014 04:45
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I hope Ali Hillis voices some recurring, but largely inconsequential character in FFXV.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:47
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ImpAtom posted:No matter how many times people bitterly try to insist Ashe was the protagonist of FFXII, it isn't ever going to be something Square-Enix actually considers as true. She fits the description best. The Occuria don't choose to talk to Vaan or Basch. She's the one who has the decision of revenge vs. compassion placed in her lap, and she changes the most as a character. I honestly wouldn't say FF12 is a game that has a clear, single protagonist, but Ashe is the best candidate.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:48
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Vash is objectively the protagonist of ff12 and I'm glad of it
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Dec 22, 2014 04:50
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bloodychill posted:The look on Krusty's face is pretty much the same look I get on my face whenever I see Toriyama say anything. How does that guy get his bosses to ever take him seriously? Toriyama managed to ship stuff more or less on time when all the the other major directors forgot how to make games. Next to an expensive vaporware pet project and a spectacular failure of an MMO launch, he's a god drat visionary.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:51
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Gamma Nerd posted:She fits the description best. The Occuria don't choose to talk to Vaan or Basch. She's the one who has the decision of revenge vs. compassion placed in her lap, and she changes the most as a character. A character having a strong plot role and that character being considered the main character, especially in terms of marketing, are not the same thing. The lateness of which Ashe joins the party alone would disqualify her as 'main character' even if you discount Vaan as both Basch and Balthier join earlier and drive the early game plot while also having their own storylines connected with the overall story. Regardless, no amount of bitching is going to make S-E not consider Vaan the main character of FFXII. He's the dude front and center on the advertising, the guy they used as the rep in Dissidia, and the guy who cameoed in other games. (Well, him and Balthier.)
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Dec 22, 2014 04:52
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Endorph posted:FF6's cast was an ensemble - Terra and Celes assume protagonist roles, but so do Locke and Sabin. World of Balance began with Terra and World of Ruin began with Celes. It is mostly Terra's story. As for 10 and 12, 10 is Yuna's story and 12 is Ashe's. If you can say that "10 is Yuna's story as much as 7 is Vincent's" or the same about Ashe with a straight face, you got some problems with understanding narrative or honesty.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:52
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bloodychill posted:World of Balance began with Terra and World of Ruin began with Celes. It is mostly Terra's story. FF10 literally, onscreen, has people say that it is Tidus's story. He is the narrator, his dad is the final boss, and he is the primary driving force behind character change in the game. FF10 is about Yuna's journey but it is about how Tidus changes Yuna's journey more than that. Arguing she is the protagonist is really stretching the point just to bitch about a random quote of Toriyama's.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:54
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ImpAtom posted:If you're going to make that argument then Cloud isn't the main character of FFVII. v Terra shares many of the qualities you listed as well. Toriyama saying Lightning was the first just reeks of another selfish attempt to shove her even farther down everyone's throats.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:54
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Tidus is the main character of FFX, good christ. This ain't a Vaan situation where removing him barely changes anything.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:54
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Hear my story. Or hear another character's story, I guess it really doesn't matter -- Tidus, Final Fantasy X (2001)
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Dec 22, 2014 04:56
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bloodychill posted:World of Balance began with Terra and World of Ruin began with Celes. It is mostly Terra's story. Tidus is the main character. This isn't even a Vaan situation where you have to make the 'well, he's the viewpoint character' argument, Tidus is the main character. He might not get as much development as Yuna, but his actions change the course of the story, and he is directly tied to the core plot. The 'this is your story' thing is a running thing, for chrissakes. As for 12, Ashe is the one driving the plot, but that doesn't make her the protagonist. The protagonist is not whoever changes the most, or whoever impacts the plot the most. There are plenty of stories, especially once you get out of games, where the protagonist is mostly passive: an observer of the events of the story, not a driving force of them.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:00
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Final Fantasy 16's ultimate aim will be to make YOU, the player, the main protagonist of a custom built story based on the details of your present life. How depressing, pointless, and ultimately unfulfilling would it be?
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Dec 22, 2014 05:02
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ImpAtom posted:FF10 literally, onscreen, has people say that it is Tidus's story. He is the narrator, his dad is the final boss, and he is the primary driving force behind character change in the game. FF10 is about Yuna's journey but it is about how Tidus changes Yuna's journey more than that. I'm not going to argue that Tidus isn't a protagonist but ultimately more than any other entry in the series, it is very much a case of two leads and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:03
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toriyama is so evil, selfish, and warped that he is literally rewriting history to make his waifu more prominent - an actual thing an actual person believes
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Dec 22, 2014 05:05
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Endorph posted:toriyama is so evil, selfish, and warped that he is literally rewriting history to make his waifu more prominent - an actual thing an actual person believes I would play that jrpg
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Dec 22, 2014 05:07
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Endorph posted:10 is Yuna's story as much as 7 is Vincent's in the sense that neither of them are the protagonist. A narrator is not necessarily a protagonist and vice versa. I would also argue that Tidus' assertion that it is his story is one of an unreliable narrator.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:07
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Cake Attack posted:I would play that jrpg
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Dec 22, 2014 05:08
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Endorph posted:toriyama is so evil, selfish, and warped that he is literally rewriting history to make his waifu more prominent - an actual thing an actual person believes Who actually believes this? I just think he's a weird creep who keeps roses for video game characters he wrote.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:08
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bloodychill posted:I'm not going to argue that Tidus isn't a protagonist but ultimately more than any other entry in the series, it is very much a case of two leads and there's nothing wrong with that. I get what you're saying but in the case of FFX I can't agree. Yuna, without Tidus, would have not changed the story much at all. Tidus was the catalyst for her change and the eventual ending to the plot is Tidus-focused to an almost absurd degree. She's an important character but I can't really say she carries the story as a co-protagonist any more than Garnet or Rinoa does. FFX-2 does a lot for her character by allowing her to actually carry the story and make it about her pretty unambigiously. FFX is so much about Tidus because he is the outsider and his outside views have a huge impact on the world and the development of the characters around him and it is ultimately his sacrifice that ends the story. Yuna kind of falls into the niche that a lot of JRPG heroines do. She's the one the story is about but not the main character. She falls into the niche of characters like Colette from Tales of Symphonia or Alice from Shadow Hearts where she has the plot mojo but the male lead is the 'main character.' I think it's a holdover from JRPG's anime roots. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 05:14
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Level Slide posted:I hope Ali Hillis voices some recurring, but largely inconsequential character in FFXV. I'll start the petition for Scout Harding in FFXV.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:14
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bloodychill posted:A narrator is not necessarily a protagonist and vice versa. I would also argue that Tidus' assertion that it is his story is one of an unreliable narrator. and why is he the only one you get to rename and why, when recounting the early development of the game, did yoshinori kitase (the game's producer) offer this quote quote:In the original plot draft for Final Fantasy X, Tidus was a plumber with a job of piping construction and dispatching underwater fiends with the attitude of a young, angry Japanese gang member. This was changed because Yoshinori Kitase felt it would have made for a "weak main character". here's another quote quote:For most of Final Fantasy X, Tidus's thoughts and feelings are narrated to the player by his monologue where Tidus recites the game's events in a diegesis. This was included because Nojima was initially concerned with "establishing a connection between the player and main character." like, the developers considered him the main character, dude. Death of the author and all but of course Toriyama, someone who works at square, isn't going to consider Yuna a co-protagonist when nobody involved in the development of the game did. PS: i would have totally played super yakuza brothers bloodychill posted:Who actually believes this? Get Innocuous! posted:Toriyama saying Lightning was the first just reeks of another selfish attempt to shove her even farther down everyone's throats.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:14
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actually gently caress arguing about the literary definition of protagonist, who wants to write a yakuza plumber tidus fanfic with me
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Dec 22, 2014 05:16
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Endorph posted:actually gently caress arguing about the literary definition of protagonist, who wants to write a yakuza plumber tidus fanfic with me Isn't that the plot of FFXV?
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Dec 22, 2014 05:17
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ImpAtom posted:Isn't that the plot of FFXV?
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Dec 22, 2014 05:18
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Has there ever been a Yakuza themed character in a FF game? They should do that. E. I guess XV
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Dec 22, 2014 05:19
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This has nothing to do with protag issues, you just hate TidusSkeezy posted:Has there ever been a Yakuza themed character in a FF game? They should do that. What do you think the Turks are
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Dec 22, 2014 05:20
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Skeezy posted:Has there ever been a Yakuza themed character in a FF game? They should do that.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:21
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ImpAtom posted:I get what you're saying but in the case of FFX I can't agree. I think that's a pretty fair argument. My only counter is that we can't be certain how Yuna would act without Tidus and that all the major plot points focus on the interaction between and change in their personalities and views. Definitely more so than with Zidane and Garnet, who have a similar dynamic.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:24
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Oh ahaha I forgot about the Turks. drat.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:27
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bloodychill posted:I think that's a pretty fair argument. My only counter is that we can't be certain how Yuna would act without Tidus and that all the major plot points focus on the interaction between and change in their personalities and views. Definitely more so than with Zidane and Garnet, who have a similar dynamic. At very least I think we can say Yuna would have sacrificed herself. A huge chunk of the early game involves Yuna being almost absurdly self-sacrificial. That is what her plot with Seymour is and all that. She is someone who is sort of conditioned from birth to think that giving her life is her duty and it takes Tidus to snap her out of that and break the Final Summoning cycle. (At least until FFX HD's stupid audio drama!)
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Dec 22, 2014 05:34
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Beyond Chaos turned the Banon/Ultros segment into an RPG escort mission. Banon has R.DRAIN but for some reason is hurt by the healing. He is also missing Pray, so I can't rely on him for much. Terra is my damage dealer with R.Group, Sabin is my healer/support with magic and R.Drain (which thankfully works) while Edgar ended up spamming his Lagomorph skill for full party healing. I suppose I could have popped Morph on him, but eh. Hella tough fight. I am floating by with R. Group, we'll see how long that lasts me. Time to meet Celes and see what the madness has done to her.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:59
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SSNeoman posted:Beyond Chaos turned the Banon/Ultros segment into an RPG escort mission. Banon has R.DRAIN but for some reason is hurt by the healing. He is also missing Pray, so I can't rely on him for much. Terra is my damage dealer with R.Group, Sabin is my healer/support with magic and R.Drain (which thankfully works) while Edgar ended up spamming his Lagomorph skill for full party healing. I suppose I could have popped Morph on him, but eh. I had an even worse situation; all Banon had was Rasp and Item and was similarly hurt by healing. And now I'm stuck on the Phantom Train who isn't undead in my randomization. 
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Dec 22, 2014 06:05
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Endorph posted:actually gently caress arguing about the literary definition of protagonist, who wants to write a yakuza plumber tidus fanfic with me an immigrant handyman with a distinctive accent kidnaps kazuma kiryuu's adopted daughter and he teams up with an effeminate punk with spiky highlighted hair to rescue her cmon gimme something difficult
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Dec 22, 2014 06:10
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The White Dragon posted:an immigrant handyman with a distinctive accent kidnaps kazuma kiryuu's adopted daughter and he teams up with an effeminate punk with spiky highlighted hair to rescue her But as they're making their getaway via airship, Goro Majima picks up a sniper rifle and lands a critical hit on the spiky highlight-haired punk. As the handyman cradles him in his arms the punk coughs, "please," as he hands him a photograph, "take care of my son." It is a picture of Lightning in overalls wearing a newsboy cap.
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Dec 22, 2014 06:24
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Kyrosiris posted:I had an even worse situation; all Banon had was Rasp and Item and was similarly hurt by healing. ...also apparently he turned Fanatic's Tower into some kind of super dungeon with Ragnarok at the top, according to his response to my tweets at him. E: also the one piece of advice I'd give is to keep at least one of everything, because the Colosseum is randomized and Chupon is gone so maybe you want to grind your way from Leather Hats to X-Potions to Ice Shields to Pearl Lances or whatever. DACK FAYDEN fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 06:26
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SSNeoman posted:Beyond Chaos turned the Banon/Ultros segment into an RPG escort mission. Banon has R.DRAIN but for some reason is hurt by the healing. How does that even...?  Even if he was randomly undead, he still shouldn't be damaged by using drain moves.Also, Ashe is certainly the "main character," as she is the entire focus of the game, including driving the plot, character growth, important decisions, bringing the entire team together, etc. Vaan is a viewpoint character/narrator, but is totally inconsequential. But ImpAtom is right in that Square will never admit it and will keep putting Vaan in all cameo roles, because focus testing (or baseless executive assumptions?) shows the fanbase loves androgynous teenage boys, and all the kids will want to see Vaan in everything. Adults and political drama are boooor-ring! Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 06:36
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actually balthier was the most popular ff12 character
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Dec 22, 2014 06:38
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i love androgynous teenage boys e: I mean fran, i liked fran, yeah
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Dec 22, 2014 06:42
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Cake Attack posted:i love androgynous teenage boys 
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Dec 22, 2014 06:43
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