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Disinterested posted:Assuming such a person wasn't KIA, what would have been the outcome for a person like that in Denmark after the war? It's my impression that most people who survived the ordeal would try to disappear. For those involved with the Peter group (irregular milita helping Gestapo/SS retaliate against the Danish population after acts of resistance) or otherwise contributing to the murder or opression of Danes, harsh penalties up to and including death would be the reality. Social ostracism and harassment would probably result, as well. Our history is eerily silent on the matter, so you've inspired me to dig around a bit. I'll be back.
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Dec 21, 2014 19:08
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My grandfather was in World War 2 as a radio operator, and he had a lot of goofy stories that he ended up putting into a book. My favorite is how he accidentally got sent to the wrong camp when training, and he was in the then-classified radar training by mistake. He had to keep on explaining that he was in the wrong place, but the army kept on telling him not to worry and insisting that they'd find his papers. When they finally figured out that he didn't have clearance, they had to swear him to secrecy.
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Dec 21, 2014 19:34
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Two of my great-grandfathers served in World War II, and both passed long before my time. Only stories I have are what my dad passed on to me. One apparently drove a half-track, and during the Battle of the Bulge, was trying to catch some sleep in the cab. He heard some commotion in the back, stumbled around to yell at whatever GIs were in there to shut up, and found a squad of Germans trying to shelter down waaaaaay off from where they should have been. Everyone was very surprised, but the lost and increasingly frostbitten Germans apparently weren't keen on fighting any longer, and in any case, he was a little faster on getting his weapon up. He escorted them to the rear and then trudged back to his half-track. A few hours later, he had finally settled down when he heard someone in the back again. This time, he was prepared - he snuck around the half-track, weapon at the ready, and then flung himself at the back shouting for surrender. He found a very pissed off US officer who laid into him with just the worst string of curses. I always suspected that story was at least partly bull, but it's a good story none the less. The other didn't talk about the war, but would sometimes wake up screaming. My father stayed at his farm a lot. Once, when he was really drunk, he opened up a little about the war. He, too, was involved in the Battle of the Bulge. He was infantry. All he could remember was the artillery barrages on his position, and seeing pieces of his friends stuck in the trees, blown apart by shells landing in the next foxhole over. I have no reason to doubt that story, as much as I might want. 
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Dec 21, 2014 20:04
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My family memory comes from my dad's side of the family (mom's side, my grandfather was a...plumbing apprentice during the war, IIRC). Poppy was a cook. Went ashore with Operation Dragoon I think, also saw time in Italy. This is relevant because he *came* from Italy (American father, Italian Mom), and had only come to the states in 1938. All through the war, where was my grandmother (who he'd married in 1938)? In Italy, in Taurasi. Yes, you got that right - the plan was for Poppy to go over and then send for Nana when everything was ready and he was established. Well, he got drafted in 1940-41 or so. And then the war happened.  Nana had basically the entire village lying their asses off to the Fascists - "Nope, nobody here with American relatives!" - in hopes that they wouldn't figure out she was married to an American soldier.Apparently, when the Allies recaptured that part of Italy, the scene was like something out of a movie, with him banging on the door of his in-laws' house and reuniting with her. Nana came to the states as a war bride - a bit of a lie, but hey, close enough. So his war was spent in kitchens, basically. Plus, since he spoke Italian, I presume he was often his unit's translator. Eventually, he was encouraged to stay on with the Army after the war. Except...It went kinda like this: Him: "Sure! Where'm I gonna be stationed, since you say I get my pick of places if I re-up?" Army: "Germany!" Him: "Then, uh, nope. I'm mustering out." Army: "But it's Germany!" Him: "I want Italy so I can be with family, or I'm going byebye!" Army: "Germany! This is the army, Corporal!" Him: "Oh, what's that? I'm demobilized? Bye now!" Come 1946 he started having kids (my dad was born in 1948), so he was annoyed as hell when he got called up from civilian life for Korea. They did, however, make him a Warrant Officer along the way...As a cook, don't ask me what specialized skill cooks have that would require a warrant. He died when I was 5 though, so I never got the chance to ask him (or Nana, who died when I was 8) about the war. Which makes me sad.
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Dec 21, 2014 21:39
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Spacewolf posted:My family memory comes from my dad's side of the family (mom's side, my grandfather was a...plumbing apprentice during the war, IIRC).  quote:Come 1946 he started having kids (my dad was born in 1948), so he was annoyed as hell when he got called up from civilian life for Korea. They did, however, make him a Warrant Officer along the way...As a cook, don't ask me what specialized skill cooks have that would require a warrant. Making nice carbonara out of army issue dried eggs is an art. ...sorry
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Dec 21, 2014 21:46
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Oh war stories? Well, my grandfather was the equivalent of 4-F. Considering that kept him out of the IJA, and considering that my mom was born a few years after the war....probably for the best.
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Dec 21, 2014 22:30
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My grandfather was in the Italian Navy :iamafag:
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Dec 21, 2014 22:34
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HEY GAL posted:My grandfather was in the Italian Navy :iamafag: Go on...
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Dec 21, 2014 22:42
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HEY GAL posted:My grandfather was in the Italian Navy :iamafag: Clearly he was a good swimmer.
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Dec 21, 2014 23:28
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Groda posted:Clearly he was a good swimmer. Yeah, those Italian frogmen were pretty cool 
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Dec 21, 2014 23:28
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My great-uncle joined the second New Zealand Expeditionary Force, was wounded in Italy, invalided home, recertified fit for duty, sent to the Solomons, and wounded again. At this point the view was reached that he should not be sent back to Italy.
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Dec 21, 2014 23:43
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My grandfather and his brother were too young for WW2 and joined the Army together in 1947 and both went to Korea. My grandfather was an infantryman but at some point in the war he was chosen to guard some historian though things didn't change much for him, they got attacked all the time. Sometime after his deployment he went through Officer Candidate School and became an officer and was stationed in Germany. One day in Germany he was officer in charge of some kind of guard duty where he met Elvis Presley, who happened to be one of the soldiers under his command on that guard detail. My grandfathers brother was also infantry though after his deployment to Korea he became one of the first soldiers to go through Army Special Forces training when it was created in 1952. He personally knew most of the SF legends from the first few decades of SF. He would later also deploy for Vietnam, ultimately spending 25 of his 30 years in the Army as an SF soldier.
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Dec 21, 2014 23:58
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Groda posted:Clearly he was a good swimmer. Now there's a double entente!
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Dec 22, 2014 00:04
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My grandfathers were bth a bit too young to do much during the war - one of them was put into service in 45 (he was 13 at them time) to haul shells at a nearby FlaK battery. Had a grand uncle who was kinda nuts; a little grenadier who ended up fighting the war right up into April '45 before surrendering to US forces. He ended up in a POW camp in France and went from there right into the Foreign Legion and off to Indochina, lost his second war and then decided that he had done enough to deserve retirement. Never heard any big stories from him, just funny poo poo that happened to him and him declaring that jungles goddamn suck. Guess he jsut thought I was too young at the time and he died when I was 7 years old. Also had an old veteran in the village I grew up who would sometimes tell a bit to teenagers. Joined up in '42 into 1st Fallschirmjäger, ended the war as a sergeant. Old guy would at times get a genuine thousand yard stare when telling about the worse parts - guy went through Monte Cassino start to finish and watched most of his platoon getting wiped out twice over during the whole ordeal.
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Dec 22, 2014 00:08
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Actually visited my grandfather today, still kicking and ornery as ever at 92. He was a Marine sergeant in China, their unit was laying down communications infrastructure and preparing for an invasion of the Japanese home islands. Mostly playing cribbage over the telephone, though. There's a family joke that none of us would be around if it weren't for the a-bombs, it's pretty likely he would've been killed in the invasion. He got in some pretty deep poo poo with some of his superiors for giving the lone African-American guy in his unit jobs more involved than peeling potatoes.  They didn't marry until a few years after the war, but grandma had just finished her college degree in math and enlisted in the Navy WAVES auxiliary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WAVES). Her unit was in DC working to decode Japanese documents and liked to tell us about how they had several clotheslines full of recovered pages hanging to dry. She passed away a few years ago and recently one of my uncles has been digitizing her diary, it's some really great reading. One standout bit was at the end of the war when soldiers were coming home, one tried to kiss her on the bus. There was apparently a lot of that and other excitement going on, she was rather mortified 
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Dec 22, 2014 00:20
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Both of my grandfathers fought in WW2. On my father's side, he was conscripted and fought in Europe. He was in one of the later waves on Utah beach and carried a mortar baseplate as part of his duties. He often told me he was thankful for it because it felt like he could hide under it while under fire. He ended up with three purple hearts during the war and he gave them to me a few years before he passed away. According to him, he got the first when a German grenade ended up in his foxhole. He said he jumped out and it exploded and just barely scratched his foot. That was enough to give him a Purple Heart but he wasn't given any reprieve in terms of serving. His second Purple Heart, he said he got during a night raid. According to him, he got in a melee fight with a German soldier and the other soldier slashed him across the back with something. I don't know what but he had a scar to show for it. His third Purple Heart, he got during the opening days of the Battle of the Bulge. A mortar round landed near him and exploded, filling his leg with shrapnel. He was sent back to the US, discharged, and given a 40% disability. On my mother's side, my grandfather was 15 years old but faked his age and signed up for the Marines. I have no idea what he did during his time but my mom says he talked about manning a machine gun. After the war, they discharged him and when he turned 18, he joined the Air Force and was a mechanic. I didn't get to talk to him because he died before I was born from skin cancer.
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Dec 22, 2014 01:30
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My paternal grandfather was at Pearl Harbor. In 1942. He was a welder by trade, so ended up spending the war at Pearl repairing submarines. From what I've heard and seen he had a grand old time. My maternal grandfather was a replacement tank driver in the marines, and was in a Sherman zippo on Iwo Jima.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:32
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Mustang posted:My grandfather and his brother were too young for WW2 and joined the Army together in 1947 and both went to Korea. My grandfather was an infantryman but at some point in the war he was chosen to guard some historian though things didn't change much for him, they got attacked all the time. Occult Korean war?!  My grandparents didn't fight in the war. Really don't know what happened to mom's pop's family, but dad's dad is patriotic and brings up partisans from time to time. Should probably write a letter to ask him to tell me more, because I was never interested in it when I was a kid. No idea what he'll tell, tho, since I'm certain he was a forester and never did any freedom fighting. My dad got drafter into the Red Army and guarded some antenna in Siberia during the late Cold War.
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Dec 22, 2014 02:55
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dadside: Grandad's health would have precluded him from anything but deskwork and the Royal Canadian Mail needed to keep open anyway, so... Grand-uncle Albany volunteered, trained, crossed over to England and... the war ended. Chose to remain in the service, spent a few years living la vida loca in Britannia, to his mom's displeasure. momside: Grandad was too young, but grand-uncles Marcel and Ernest were conscripted by the Nazis because Lothringen ist Deutsch; Marcel said allez vous faire foutre, went into the maquis, got caught and sent to Dachau, somehow came back, but came back a little... wrong, shall we say. Grand-uncle Ernest decided maybe service was better than Dachau, got sent to the Eastern Front, captured and spent five years as a guest of Mother Russia. He returned years after the war, with fewer teeth and appendages (also a form of PTSD) but a strong need for vodka. Extra: I have great-grandfathers on both sides of WWI, a poilu and a German cook on the Balkan front.
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Dec 22, 2014 03:32
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My grandfather quit high school in his senior year to join the Army in '43, then came back after the war to get his diploma. He only got up to PFC and served in Europe, but I don't know specifically where. I don't think he was part of the landings at Normandy so perhaps some of the earlier stuff in the Mediterranean? I'll have to ask around. He died in the early '90s and I was way too young to treat "grandpa talks about getting shot at" like the living history it was .
FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 03:55
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Paternal grandfather spent the entire war on a US Navy ship (he never said what ship beyond that it was small) patrolling the Brazilian coast for u-boats, never saw a minute of combat. Maternal grandfather was in the Army, had just reached Hawaii getting shipped out when Japan surrendered. My father has an almost identical story to my maternal grandfather, just with Vietnam ending right as he was getting shipped out.
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Dec 22, 2014 04:45
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My maternal grandfather was an infantryman in the US 3rd Infantry Division and fought at Anzio and beyond. Apparently he operated a bazooka and was wounded multiple times, but unfortunately he died before I was 10 so I couldn't really get or properly appreciate any war stories he could tell - he did tell me one or two though and seemed to be proud of his time in the war, so it kind of sucks that he didn't live to be older since I'm sure he had some good ones. My paternal grandfather died right after I was born, but I heard he never told my dad or his brothers about his time in the service except that he was in the air force in the Pacific. I don't know much about him in general except that he was apparently a very intense and private person, so I can only really guess he was ashamed of it or was traumatized by it, or maybe it was perfectly normal and he just didn't like to talk about it.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:05
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My dad's stories about being in the army mostly involve getting promoted for having shiny shoes.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:19
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One grandfather joined up the day after Pearl Harbor. He wanted to join the Navy, but they were gonna make him take a physical., so he walked across the street and joined the Army instead. Ended up serving as a stenographer in an Army courtroom on Vanuatu. Apparently, when they first landed on the island, they didn't have enough food to go around so he and his buddies killed and ate a fruit bat. Other grandfather volunteered for the Army in '51 and ended up with the 24th Infantry Division in Korea. Ended up staying there for most of the war. His first job was to string field telephone wire from the forward observers to the gun batteries. His wire might have even strangled that New Zealand tank commander the thread likes so much... He said he slept with a .38 in his sleeping bag every night. Several people had been bayoneted while asleep and he wasn't gonna let that happen to him. He finished his short Army career as a Sergeant First Class teaching at a service school in Busan, a gig he apparently liked a lot more than his previous assignment. Great-grandpa fought on the Western Front with the AEF and picked up an Iron Cross off a dead German. Then he became a Polar Bear and fought Russians. At some point, he got gassed (not sure where or when) which hosed up his lungs pretty bad. Met my grandmother in a field hospital, where she was an Army nurse. When he came home, he got TB, became an alcoholic, and died young. Had three great-great-grandparents in the Civil War. Three brothers went off to fight for the Union. Half of one came back. Didn't stop him from having kids, though. Mustang posted:My grandfather and his brother were too young for WW2 and joined the Army together in 1947 and both went to Korea. My grandfather was an infantryman but at some point in the war he was chosen to guard some historian though things didn't change much for him, they got attacked all the time. Little known fact: North Koreans really hate historians. e: great-great-grandparents.... Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 05:30
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My grandfather was in the Holocaust in the Janowska concentration camp.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:38
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Bacarruda posted:Had three great-grandparents in the Civil War. Three brothers went off to fight for the Union. Half of one came back. Didn't stop him from having kids, though. Great-great-grandparents? Because I'd be very surprised if anyone's family made kids slower than mine, and my great-great-grandfather came over during the Civil War from Prussia. He had some sort of orders to get to Mexico and managed to lose them and end up as a meteorologist for the Union army and then end up on the Polaris expedition. By the time WWII swung around, one grandfather was 4-F from the results of a bus accident but still managed to drag himself up the Empire State Building's stairs every day after the bomber hit it and broke the elevators. He eventually wound up in the USO with my grandmother on that side. The other grandfather was over 40, but wanted to be a Marine, volunteered and managed to get them to put him through boot at Parris Island before sticking him behind my desk.
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Dec 22, 2014 05:43
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My grandfather served with the 112th Evacuation Hospital. He didn't tell stories, except about a comrade who accidentally jumped into a grease pit during an air raid siren. He was called up in 1943 or 1944 and did his training at Camp Barkley in Texas. He did go to reunions when they were nearby and I do have a four-page history of the unit that he was given at one of them. It's incredibly vague, but does reveal that they encountered Dachau survivors.112th History posted:We crossed the Blue Danube (which was muddy) up through Augsburg and started to see along the road and countryside numerous prisoners who had fled Dachau concentration camp. Our route led us past Dachau, through Munich, and then down the Autobahn that runs from Munich to Salzburg, Austria. On the other side of the family, my lowly Confederate private great-great-great grandfather was captured at Gettysburg and died at Point Lookout prison camp in Maryland. Several of his letters to his wife survived and were later transcribed.
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Dec 22, 2014 07:08
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I never spoke much to my grandfathers - one died before I was born, and the other spoke with an incomprehensibly thick accent (another dialect entirely, I think), and died later on. All I know for certain is that both of them served in the Nationalist Army during the Chinese Civil War, and that one of them lost an eye during it (the one who died before I was born, though not of the lost eye). They ended up moving to Taiwan with Chiang Kai Shek after the KMT was defeated. Beyond that I know little - I've heard bits and bobs about how my paternal grandparents used to be somewhat wealthy before moving to Taiwan, though, where my grandfather ended up becoming an orange farmer. The other grandfather, being the only literate (and, I think, educated) person in his village, spent his time helping the other villagers write letters for free while his wife bitched at him for not demanding a fee. Apparently quite a lot of people came to pay their respects at his funeral, though.
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Dec 22, 2014 08:59
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I really like reading all these family war stories. Brings home the human element again for me, its easy to forget that all those tank destroyers and planes were manned by real people who had real families. To contribute my grandfather used to talk a lot when I was young boy his time in North Africa, he married his wife and voulenteered at the outbreak of war and got deployed there. His reasoning was if you voulenteered you got a better chance of picking up a good job and deployment than if you got conscripted down the line. As an aside was that true? Particularly in the British army? Young me never thought to question why all the stories were only ever about North Africa when clearly the war went on much longer and you dont get to jusy go home job done after one campaign. After he died we found a bunch of his stuff and war records, turns out he was with one of the first units to get to Bergen-Belson something he never even mentioned to his wife. North Africa stories though he would talk about. At one point he was on a transport ship and he and his buddy had got up early and were sitting in the sun enjoying a bit of quiet time and just chatting. They realise its nearly time for some sort of inspection and they have to shave and get ready, not wanting to go yet they flip for it and his buddy loses, gets up and goes to shave. A couple of minutes later they come under attack and a shell of some sort blows off a chunk of the ship, right where they would go to shave, didnt even leave a trace of his friend. Cast_No_Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 09:38
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Disinterested posted:Go on... His older brother died in World War 1, and one day I'll find his records and learn how. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 09:59
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I never really knew my grandfathers as they both died before I was born. Still Family Myth and legend has the following: Maternal Grandfather: Was a medical orderly who served in a field hospital in Burma. Absolutely hated the rain due to spending way too much time in it during the war and refused to either buy or allow the rest of the family to buy anything Japanese made. Paternal Grandfather: Joined up as a TA(Reserve) in 1939 to avoid being conscripted and was assigned to the Durham Light Infantry. Was evacuated off the beach at Dunkirk then spent the next few years sat in England before going back as part of the Black Watch. (Which always struck me as kind of odd I thought the regimental system was very strong back then.) on D-Day. Fought his way across most of Europe with nothing interesting to tell. Was stationed in the British occupied bit of Germany where so family rumour had it he had a relationship with a german girl and knocked her up and supposedly we have a couple of cousins over there that no one knows a lot about because he only confessed it on his death bed. Supposedly had a chest full of medals but they all went to some other branch of the family and no one can remember what they were for. Oh forgot one but it's quite a sad story Maternal Great Uncle Conscripted in 1940 at 18 given a bunch of training as a mechanic by the RAF. Was supposed to be sent to Iraq or somewhere in the Middle East. Jumps on a plane that has to make an unscheduled stop in Cyprus. While there he catches Malaria and dies. Apparently he's still buried over there to this day. Ferrosol fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 10:04
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HEY GAL posted:Since I exist I the story's far less interesting than it could be: he transferred from his destroyer into the Merchant Marine before World War 2, deserted in Philadelphia, and made his way illegally to New York, where he already had family. He did serve during some of the colonial wars though, I remember hearing he had been to Libya but I don't know anything more than that. He started smoking at this time since all the men were enjoined to smoke, against malaria (it would keep the mosquitoes off). That's not as boring as it could be at all. Why did he do it - he always wanted to move to America, or Italy was too much of a poo poo show? - My paternal great-grandfather, I forgot to mention, fought in WW1 in the infantry. He fled home under-age from a relatively wealthy family and enlisted in approx 1916-17. There is some reason to suppose from the records that a very distant relative of mine fought as a marine at Trafalgar, given the relative rarity of my name and that marine's home town.
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Dec 22, 2014 10:42
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HEY GAL posted:His older brother died in World War 1, and one day I'll find his records and learn how. 20 tragic bucks on Isonzo.
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Dec 22, 2014 10:50
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My Dad's dad spent most of the war in what is now Pakistan as an RAF ground crew sergeant. He was involved with the Double Sunrise flights to some extent, not sure how much. My Mum's dad started the war in a reserved occupation as a shepherd, but when things got worse he joined the Royal Navy. Initially he was a gunner on HMS Anson doing convoy duty which he described as being utterly miserable. Looking for a safer, warmer and more land based posting he applied for a transfer to Montreal that he saw advertised on a bulletin board. Unfortunately for him "Montreal" turned out to be a commando training camp in Scotland, where he got trained for beach clearing duties for D-Day. Stories from this time period include trying to open tinned food with a Lewis gun (unsuccessful, food spread over about an acre) and taking plastic explosive home on leave to go fishing with (wildly successful). He landed at Sword beach and I think got as far inland as Pegasus bridge, but due to the horrifying nature of what he saw he did not talk or record any more than that. I know one of my great-grandfathers got gassed in WW1 but I'm not clear on the details. thatbastardken fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 10:52
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Bacarruda posted:Little known fact: North Koreans really hate historians. Oh god they might hack the thread! To soon? So yeah, If we're talking about relatives at war my grand father who is now ticking through his eighties was called up to serve in the Royal Navy towards the end around 44-45. I assume he was called up into the RAF for National Service after the war. My great grand father on my mothers side was in the Merchant Navy, he saw the siege of Tobruk and sailed one of these babies on D-Day. I think he also spent some time in a make shift Italian POW camp too. My great grand father on my dads side saw action in the Trenches during The Great War. According to my dad, he never talked much about it with him but then again why would you talk about that horrible stuff to a 7 year old. One of my grand mothers cousins was in the 7th Armoured Brigade fighting in North Africa. Sadly, It didn't go well for old Sidney and well I'm not really going to pursue that subject with the old dear. Oh and the Irish mother of my dear departed Nan (My mothers mother) own father was an Irishman serving in the Dragoons who volunteered and served in the opening days of the Great War. Lucky for me, both men on both sides survived. JcDent posted:My dad got drafter into the Red Army and guarded some antenna in Siberia during the late Cold War. And on the other side of the Iron Curtain in the eighties, my dad served keeping the peace in Northern Ireland and saw action during the Gulf War. According to him, aside from a few hairy moments where everyone thought things would get Serious with the Scud stuff patrol and off duty action in Northern Ireland was much more loving scary. And my Uncle was a Royal Engineer working with the British Army forces in Germany. Sadly I just know the bare facts, from what I gathered my old man like most off British soldiers off duty just tried to relax by drinking and did silly things he'd rather not tell his son and the rest of the people mentioned have sadly long passed. No silly human interest stories for me to share now sorry. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 11:09
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my dad posted:Anyway, I asked a question earlier in the thread if any Japanese tried to resist the regime during WW2, do you know something about that? No, if you mean the Japanese regime I don't know much about it. There is a cultural record that describes how some people malingered at their work or tried to avoid the many militarized elements of society in a sort of silent protest against the war and the government, but nothing that I'm aware of that rose above small individual actions of protest. However, as a sort of recompense, I'll address something that I think gets overlooked, probably because it doesn't present the most easy to digest view of the Japanese American internment. There is a lot of talk about the 442nd Infantry Regiment and the 100th Infantry Battalion, for good reason, but I think not much is said of the many Japanese men who not only did not volunteer for combat, but actively resisted the draft when it came. The patriotic and brave young men who were willing to fight for their country in the face of grave injustice is a very attractive aspect looking back on it, but at the time there were a lot of very mad people asking why they should feel compelled to fight for country that didn't seem to acknowledge them as citizens. In many of the camps societies were formed that flatly rejected the draft or presented a list of grievances to be addressed before the draft would be considered. Most of these folded in the face of government pressure in the form of promises of improved conditions if the men went to fight and the implicit threat of worse conditions if camps were deemed to be disloyal. Yet through out the war there remained a few stubborn hold outs who maintained that they would have their rights returned and would then fight, no other order of events would be acceptable. My own grandmother told me about how she herself told her younger brother not to register for the draft, to go off and fight for the people who had put his entire family in such a horrible place, told me in some ways she still regretted that he eventually decided to register and possibly leave them behind. Ironically he received a 4-F only to die in an industrial accident while on work leave from the camp. The patriotic ideals and anger and government compulsion and just general desire to be out of the camps that young Japanese American men had to grapple with at the time is something that interests me and again I think something not a lot of people want to think about in what is already a painful topic.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:13
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You had family in the camps? Jesus. Any stories about what that was like? One of my dad's childhood friends was born at Manzanar, and despite being a right-winger dad still refers to Japanese internment as our country's greatest shame.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:20
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quote:Anyway, I asked a question earlier in the thread if any Japanese tried to resist the regime during WW2, do you know something about that? There was a far left-resistance to the militarisation of society that occured after the Meiji restoration, including amongst Buddhists who resisted the state Buddhism of that time. The Imperial Japanese government was extremely far right for a longer time than, for example, the German government and as such had a much longer lead-time in quashing dissent, e.g. : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_15_incident You can see what happened to moderate critics of the regime: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatsukichi_Minobe I'll write a longer post when I get home to my books. Arguably, there was more right-resistance (of a kind) in Japan than left. It is easier to be a rightist insurrectionist in an absolute-puppet-monarchy, because you can rise up to try to impose the 'true will of the emperor'. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 12:02
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My paternal grandfather survived the Bataan Death March. He didn't talk much about the war, only that he was a medic for the guerilla band he fought with and that out of a class of 25 or so students that had just finished medical school in 1940, only 3 of them lived past the war.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:13
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Grand Prize Winner posted:You had family in the camps? Jesus. Any stories about what that was like? One of my dad's childhood friends was born at Manzanar, and despite being a right-winger dad still refers to Japanese internment as our country's greatest shame. Well there certainly were physical depravations (when I first broached the subject to my grandmother she didn't want to talk about it, "There was a horrid amount of dust" was all she had to say, so the desolate conditions left a mark), but the worst seemed to be the psychological and sociological depravation. The sense of being uprooted from your previous community and forced into this suspended state as life passed by in the outside world. At the time my grandmother said she agonized over the freshman college term she would have been starting in 1942 and the family in general thought of all the plantings and harvestings that they were missing as they sat around in the middle of nowhere. You couldn't take most of your possessions with you, so all anyone had were a few very portable family heirlooms and each other. Everyone had to rely on one another to provide structure. Governing councils, markets, socials and dances, baseball teams, all manner of things were kind of spontaneously organized, not just to pass the time, but to as trappings to give some sense of familiarity and grounding after a supremely jarring disconnect between what had been your life and then your present circumstance. After the war this manifested in a general reluctance to return to the place you were originally from. My own family left their old home near agricultural Fresno, CA to settle in Chicago. Part of this was the general pattern of post war migration in search of better paying jobs, but part of it was an inability to face their old lives and how much had changed. My grandmothers family had sold their home and stored their possessions in a neighbors barn for safekeeping. When the war was over they were told the barn had burned down and everything was gone. There's always been an amount of suspicion that it was all just sold off at some point, and how can you live there with those kind of feelings of mistrust and shame and anger swirling around? They moved, the whole experience was buried in the past and studiously ignored until I kept asking about it. The only time I remember her bringing it up on her own was in the aftermath of 9-11, when the first reports of hate crimes against perceived Arabs started to surface. She started crying and said that no one had learned anything from our country's past.
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Dec 22, 2014 12:18
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