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chitoryu12 posted:I think the statistics show that to be pretty false. The number of guns in America gets played up a lot, but it's extremely rare for an officer to actually get shot and the chance of them being killed by a gun isn't even 1/100th of one percent. But the false fear gets played up to scare officers into believing that their lives are at risk, and so they start gunning people down practically on instinct.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:35
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straight up brolic posted:Im in the UK this year and I can confidently say that their police force makes me feel much safer than I do in the United States. When you come to a cop looking for help in the United States they immediately treat you as a suspect, in the UK they don't give people as hard a time. Far less adversarial. That reminds me of yesterday when I got a good look at the new Dutch police uniforms for the first time and me and my friends were discussing it briefly. They went from this:  To this:  A couple of officers were walking past and stopped a couple of meters away from us, which gave me the opportunity to really take a good look at them and I told my friends that while the new look is definitely more aesthetically pleasing, it does have a certain dystopian/authoritarian feel to it. Especially the caps give it a more tactical/oppressive feel. The cops overheard me and one of them kind of shrugged in agreement. Still, even with the new uniforms the Dutch police are generally very approachable even if you have minor questions, but then again, I'm white so I can't comment on the non-white Dutch experience with cops in a major city like Amsterdam or Rotterdam.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:43
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On the subject of traffic fatalities, the US compared to other industrialized nations is significantly behind yet I'm a little surprised with lack of public outcry. I tried looking into the numbers more but it seems the the vast majority of accidents are due to alcohol or wreckless driving. Is that accurate?
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Dec 24, 2014 23:45
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straight up brolic posted:what statistics? The big post I made on the last page that showed how many officers in the US died (both in total and from shootings by suspects) in 2013, compared to how many people the police kill. 0.022% of all police officers in 2013 died from any cause and 0.006% were shot to death. In comparison, the FBI used data from 1/22 of all police agencies in the US in 2012 and found that at least 400+ "justified shootings" were committed by police each year. Civilians are barely killing one-hundredth of a percent of police officers, but extrapolating from the existing statistics indicates that police are killing civilians at a rate roughly equal to the US criminal murder rate. The police are literally killing more civilians than vice versa by orders of magnitude.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:48
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Here is the story of Jefferson Davis and the great West Point eggnog riot of 1826.quote:One member of the class of 1828, Jefferson Davis, the future president of the Confederacy, had a history of being arrested or censured for leaving his post to drink at the taverns: he was the first student to be arrested for going to Benny Haven. Another time he drunkenly fell 60 feet down a ravine, his friends shouted after him to respond if he wasn’t dead. When a group of Davis’ friends suggested they flout the superintendent’s new law and throw a Christmas Eve rager the night of December 24, 1826, Davis was on board. Their choice of holiday beverage: the notorious eggnog.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:50
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A promising fellow from the start, then.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:53
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Joementum posted:Here is the story of Jefferson Davis and the great West Point eggnog riot of 1826. You forgot quote:Jefferson Davis had missed everything. (His prized future general Robert E. Lee also attended West Point at this time, but he declined to take part in the party.) Instead of following his friends and resisting arrest, Davis stumbled to his room, retched a little, and passed out cold.
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Dec 24, 2014 23:59
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Tab8715 posted:On the subject of traffic fatalities, the US compared to other industrialized nations is significantly behind yet I'm a little surprised with lack of public outcry. No. Very few traffic fatalities involve wreckless driving.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:02
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Yeah, driving is just incredibly dangerous in general. Think of how many people you know who have been in fender benders, crashes, wrecks, etc. I am betting very few one of the parties was like driving down to wrong side of the road or drunk. But you probably still know a lot of people in accidents.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:07
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Berke Negri posted:Yeah, driving is just incredibly dangerous in general. Think of how many people you know who have been in fender benders, crashes, wrecks, etc. I am betting very few one of the parties was like driving down to wrong side of the road or drunk. But you probably still know a lot of people in accidents. Let me just say, think of how much accident rates will increase as the boomer population ages in their suburban life
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Dec 25, 2014 00:09
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My Imaginary GF posted:Let me just say, think of how much accident rates will increase as the boomer population ages in their suburban life Please don't tantalize me.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:17
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fool_of_sound posted:Please don't tantalize me. Its an unaddressed issue with long-term impacts which have not been considered for calculating pension fund and social security funding rates and unfunded liabilities. I've got a cobbling of the main points from my notes on the issue, was thinking about posting them in a thread on class mobility in America and the impending financial, morbidity, and mortality issues from poor zoning and boomer tendancy to live in suburbs. As it relates to cops, expect to see an increase in rates of murder/suicide, suicide-by-cop, and gerontological murder of officers to occur between present and the 2050s, before rates level off.* *rates not equal in all types of residential neighborhoods. Suburbs in red states have higher rates than suburbs in blue states; see gun ownership by demographic for details
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Dec 25, 2014 00:24
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Taeke posted:That reminds me of yesterday when I got a good look at the new Dutch police uniforms for the first time and me and my friends were discussing it briefly. To my eyes, they've gone from a typical formalish cop uniform to something that reminds me of school crossing guards. Particularly the safety fluorescent yellow-green stripes.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:28
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Joementum posted:Here is the story of Jefferson Davis and the great West Point eggnog riot of 1826. Our Favorite Son 
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Dec 25, 2014 00:32
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Yeah all euro (or typical British?) cops look a lot more like safety workers to me than more militarized. Its the neon coloring that does the trick. Definitely a lot less imposing.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:34
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Nintendo Kid posted:To my eyes, they've gone from a typical formalish cop uniform to something that reminds me of school crossing guards. Particularly the safety fluorescent yellow-green stripes. And the holstered sidearms.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:35
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Joementum posted:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fjlXo5nT-o
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Dec 25, 2014 00:51
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comes along bort posted:And the holstered sidearms. The cops wearing the old uniforms are also packing heat, if you look closely.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:52
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Nintendo Kid posted:To my eyes, they've gone from a typical formalish cop uniform to something that reminds me of school crossing guards. Particularly the safety fluorescent yellow-green stripes. My immediate response was that they looked like referees, I'm sort of shocked that people think that caps and vests looks more authoritarian than typical cop gear.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:14
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At this point instead of lapel cams for please officers, maybe we should buy lapel cams for young black man and train them to turn them on whenever they see a police officer.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:18
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greatn posted:At this point instead of lapel cams for please officers, maybe we should buy lapel cams for young black man and train them to turn them on whenever they see a police officer. http://www.wecopwatch.org/
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Dec 25, 2014 01:25
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Taeke posted:That reminds me of yesterday when I got a good look at the new Dutch police uniforms for the first time and me and my friends were discussing it briefly. I'm not seeing it at all dude, they both look like regular old uniforms to me (though what fishmech said about the bottom ones looking like school crossing guard uniforms rings weirdly true)
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Dec 25, 2014 01:27
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I think the new uniforms look a little like future uniforms in movies, and future cop movies are usually dystopian. But they look pretty drat cool.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:42
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people that look like bike cops are less frightening
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Dec 25, 2014 01:44
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Joementum posted:2. A judge has dismissed Sheriff Joe's lawsuit against Obama, ruling that Joe does not have standing to sue the President over his executive actions on immigration. I was not aware of this earlier, but it's worth mentioning: the lawyer for the plaintiff (Sheriff Joe) in this case was Larry Klayman.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:53
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greatn posted:At this point instead of lapel cams for please officers, maybe we should buy lapel cams for young black man and train them to turn them on whenever they see a police officer. We thought he was going for his gun, it turns out he might have been trying to turn on his camera. No charges will be filed against the officers involved.
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Dec 25, 2014 01:55
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I like their vests. 
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Dec 25, 2014 01:55
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greatn posted:I think the new uniforms look a little like future uniforms in movies, and future cop movies are usually dystopian. But they look pretty drat cool. I guess this is the association I have because I've never really been familiar with crossing guards and stuff that weren't just parents wearing an orange vest. The fluorescent stripes was actually something I mentioned to my friends, the green colour making it a bit more amiable or whatever, and if it were red or orange it would've really been a lot more aggressive. The old cap is obviously more traditional and I think the new, more compact vests together with the new caps make them look a lot more tactical, something I don't associate with the police at all. General cops on the beat never had a need a to either look or be tactical, like at all, and I guess it reminds me of the militarization of the US police. Although, like I said, I agree with the rest of you that it's a lot more pleasing to the eye. Sorry for the Dutch police derail in the US politics thread everyone. 
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Dec 25, 2014 02:04
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They probably have jackets for the winter anyway. This is clearly a summer uniform. The framing of the two photos is likely part of the deception. The guys at the top are making bored/silly faces, totally unassuming and candid, and walking through dreary weather with shopping bags. One of them was caught mid-bite of his lunch. They look like a bunch of regular guys walking to work. The trio in the bottom photo, however, are noticeably more intense. The woman in the lead looks stern and authoritarian, likely from whatever situation she's trying to handle right now. The guy in the back is resting his hands on his belt, which inspires thoughts of American cops who use their holstered guns as convenient armrests. Because they're not wearing jackets, their Kevlar vests are fully visible and add a more militarized look. But the important part is that they're in the middle of doing their job, while the folks in the older picture look like they could be off-duty. If the bottom photo had them smiling and chatting at a cafe table over lunch, it would look a lot different.
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Dec 25, 2014 02:13
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Quote of the day, "Christmas is so extremely important. And not just for Christians — of course that’s the foundation of our faith, the birth of Christ — but also for those who just want to celebrate, to have a holiday that they can unite around, and today, unfortunately, people feel that they have to be so politically correct around that holiday, Christmas, that the joy of Christmas I think is diminishing, but it’s not too late, you can get that back, and we can keep working together to get the joy back into Christmas by putting Christ back into Christmas." ~ Sarah Palin, on the Fox News Todd Starnes All-American Christmas Special.
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Dec 25, 2014 02:23
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, "Christmas is so extremely important. And not just for Christians — of course that’s the foundation of our faith, the birth of Christ — but also for those who just want to celebrate, to have a holiday that they can unite around, and today, unfortunately, people feel that they have to be so politically correct around that holiday, Christmas, that the joy of Christmas I think is diminishing, but it’s not too late, you can get that back, and we can keep working together to get the joy back into Christmas by putting Christ back into Christmas." ~ Sarah Palin, on the Fox News Todd Starnes All-American Christmas Special. Even by her standards that's amazingly stupid. Easter is the foundation of the Christian faith, its the sacrifice and fulfilment that matters
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Dec 25, 2014 02:37
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Is it bad that I could tell that was a Palin quote before my phone finished loading it? She has a distinct, erm, speechifying syntax.
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Dec 25, 2014 02:40
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Joementum posted:I was not aware of this earlier, but it's worth mentioning: the lawyer for the plaintiff (Sheriff Joe) in this case was Larry Klayman. Dana Milbank had an amusing column about this. quote:Klayman faced his near-certain defeat with aplomb. He asked the judge to move “quickly” because “however you rule, it’s probably going to the Supreme Court.”
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Dec 25, 2014 02:43
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Dr. Red Ranger posted:Is it bad that I could tell that was a Palin quote before my phone finished loading it? She has a distinct, erm, speechifying syntax. It's all just one run-on sentence.
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Dec 25, 2014 02:52
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chitoryu12 posted:They probably have jackets for the winter anyway. This is clearly a summer uniform. The first picture is actually how you'd see the police walking/acting generally. From my experience, the police here are generally really relaxed and you know, just public employees doing their job. When I saw them the other day they were ambling along just like that, except in their new uniforms. It's an entirely different culture, of course, and always having seen the police as kind of goofy peace keepers that at worst had to break up a fight or give a stern talking to shoplifters the new uniform kind of struck me as... I don't even really know. For reference though, these are apparently the long sleeve jackets:  I guess, for me, the lesson I can take away from this conversation is how lucky I am to live in a country where I can openly talk (and give somewhat disparaging remarks) about the new police uniforms within earshot of them wearing it without feeling even the slightest bit threatened. Hell, in the past I've been busted for stupid poo poo like public urination and drunkenly and angrily argued with the police about the unfairness of being given a 120 euro fine for taking a leak against a tree in the middle of the night in a back alley while it was raining, and the cops actually agreeing with me and tearing up the ticket, telling me to be safe riding home on my bike. I once saw a friend getting in a bit of a shoving match with a cop because he was emotional after his girlfriend got into a fight but after we pulled him away, calmed him down and he apologized to the cop they were understanding and let him off with a warning that it's generally a bad idea to shove a cop. (Which is, for me as an outsider, what makes these kinds of threads both really, really interesting and sad/frustrating at the same time.)
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Dec 25, 2014 02:55
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Police officers actually being pleasant and treating citizens as human beings is just one of the many things that encourages me to seriously consider moving out of the United States. Ever spend time around American cops, Taeke? It's not fun. At almost any point for any unassuming thing you've done, even what you may not realize is illegal, you can be stopped and fined or arrested. If you're even vocally belligerent, it would be considered justified to tase, pepper spray, or simply wrestle you to the ground and scrape your face against the concrete. Officers are taught that anyone could potentially be a threat, to the point where simply moving too fast or holding something dark that they can't see clearly can result in you being shot dead on the spot. Minorities, especially black men (and ESPECIALLY younger ones, like teens to early 30s), get the worst end of the stick. When looking at how often male teens in the US are shot by the police, black ones are 21 times as likely to be shot. The same link includes a quote from an NAACP report on Oakland shootings: 37 of 45 police-involved shootings had black suspects, none had white ones, 40% had no weapon found at the scene, and 0 officers were charged. The lack of oversight continues up through practically the entire criminal justice system, as we've seen with cases like Eric Garner or Michael Brown where you can be shot while unarmed and fleeing/surrendering or even strangled to death on camera and the grand jury won't even bring an indictment. McCulloch can openly act like Darren Wilson's defense attorney despite being the prosecutor of the case and keep his well-paying job, even when he admits to having purposefully allowed a false witness to testify and stated that he won't charge her with perjury. And don't go into the Ask a Copgoon thread unless you want to be fantastically angry and realize just how many members of this forum are threats to human life.
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Dec 25, 2014 03:07
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On this Christmas Eve, let us all reflect on the final legislative act of Congressman Mall Santa, Kerry Bentivolio (R-MI). Before heading back to his reindeer farm, the Representative dropped H. Res. 779 on the last day of action in the 113th Congress. Shine on, you red-nosed diamond!
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Dec 25, 2014 03:07
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Taeke posted:The first picture is actually how you'd see the police walking/acting generally. From my experience, the police here are generally really relaxed and you know, just public employees doing their job. When I saw them the other day they were ambling along just like that, except in their new uniforms. It's an entirely different culture, of course, and always having seen the police as kind of goofy peace keepers that at worst had to break up a fight or give a stern talking to shoplifters the new uniform kind of struck me as... I don't even really know. That would most likely land you on the sex offender list here in the states. 
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Dec 25, 2014 03:22
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Pohl posted:That would most likely land you on the sex offender list here in the states. How many people really wind up on the SO Registry for public urination? That's what every dude with orange letters on his license says.
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Dec 25, 2014 04:38
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Joementum posted:On this Christmas Eve, let us all reflect on the final legislative act of Congressman Mall Santa, Kerry Bentivolio (R-MI). Before heading back to his reindeer farm, the Representative dropped H. Res. 779 on the last day of action in the 113th Congress. Thankfully, he's as weird as Thaddeus McCotter that no one will forget him any time soon.
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Dec 25, 2014 04:41
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