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AlternateNu posted:I don't think enemy fetches are in FRF because it would completely alter the mana base for standard before they become released en bulk. (DTK, yes because of the symmetry.) Just imagine what that would do to the metagame and the cost of enemy fetches in standard until DTK comes out. (Not that Wizards gives an overwhelming poo poo about the secondary market.) This is something I didn't think about, but yeah, I'd think this makes it less likely for the enemy fetches to be in FRF. Still not impossible, but less likely. Maybe they could say that since they were technically from an unreleased set, they aren't Standard legal until the set in question gets released? That would be confusing to a certain low-information segment of the customer base, though, so it's probably a nonstarter. forbidden lesbian posted:I don't think they're allowed to do good artifact mana anymore Eh, it depends what you consider good. Everflowing Chalice was "good" in context (and wouldn't be that bad for ramping towards Ugin, incidentally). Generally speaking, if it ramps in the midgame rather than on turn 1 or 2, they're more okay with it providing a sizable amount of ramp.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:22
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Ugin seems like a perfectly fine Control deck wincon, especially if you know your opponent has plenty of answers to Elspeth. He's slightly slower than Pearl Lake and affects the board way more.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:40
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JerryLee posted:This is something I didn't think about, but yeah, I'd think this makes it less likely for the enemy fetches to be in FRF. Still not impossible, but less likely.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:42
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I think Ugin won't be great in standard, and G/r tron wants Karn more imo, but he may have a shot in U-tron. He's obviously a control style walker, what with having both a board wipe and a steady clock. U-tron already plays sundering titan as an 8 drop, and oblivion stone might as well be too. Mindslaver basically costs 10 cmc and the deck needs 12 mana + academy ruins to lock and still manages to do it frequently. Wurmcoil engine is the only wincon you'll see on t3 in U-tron, the rest dont usually get played until they can be protected by counters which means 7+ mana. I may drop sundering titan and try Ugin for a while. Tron lands in m16 would make me crazy excited though.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:43
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Panoramic tron lands would be very dope. Put me in the g/r tron doesn't want ugin pile. Sending tron pieces into the future is too good. If you really want his -x, steel hellkite is ok.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:53
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I think they are going to release colored duals. It won't be a mountain or island though just colors. joats fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 21:20
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The place I would be least surprised to see him would be in legacy and vintage MUD, assuming they have need of a coloured board wipe/weak creature kill.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:34
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Count Bleck posted:I would jump for joy at the opportunity of black bordered, not awful looking Urza Lands. Or not life, given I sold my set I used in MWC loving ten years ago. Sob.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:57
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TheKingofSprings posted:The place I would be least surprised to see him would be in legacy and vintage MUD, assuming they have need of a coloured board wipe/weak creature kill. There is approximately a 0% chance this sees play in legacy or vintage
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Dec 25, 2014 22:16
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Sampatrick posted:There is approximately a 0% chance this sees play in legacy or vintage I mean being straight up worse than Karn doesn't help.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:22
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean being straight up worse than Karn doesn't help. Its especially unlikely that the deck with 4 copies of Misha's Workshop will play it. Cloudpost might play it, but even then it has much better options it would rather play.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:24
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean being straight up worse than Karn doesn't help. It's a different card than Karn, let's not rehash the "strictly better" arguments. Might be fun to try in cloudpost or legacy MUD, but probably not. Being able to -2 him and wipe out all the delvers, pyromancers, and pyro tokens all at once is pretty nice though.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:58
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Fingers McLongDong posted:It's a different card than Karn, let's not rehash the "strictly better" arguments. Might be fun to try in cloudpost or legacy MUD, but probably not. Being able to -2 him and wipe out all the delvers, pyromancers, and pyro tokens all at once is pretty nice though. I almost corrected you there, thinking that the -X was EXACTLY X, but wow, it's X and under. I like him more now. And I liked him quite a bit before.
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Dec 25, 2014 23:01
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Fingers McLongDong posted:It's a different card than Karn, let's not rehash the "strictly better" arguments. Might be fun to try in cloudpost or legacy MUD, but probably not. Being able to -2 him and wipe out all the delvers, pyromancers, and pyro tokens all at once is pretty nice though. I am not really sure how neatly it slots into mud, like is karn played in it without my knowledge? cloudpost is better but i really don't think its a legacy card.
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Dec 25, 2014 23:18
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forbidden lesbian posted:I am not really sure how neatly it slots into mud, like is karn played in it without my knowledge? cloudpost is better but i really don't think its a legacy card. Karn sees play as a 1/2 of in quite a few MUD decks.
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Dec 25, 2014 23:25
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At least someone else got my humor on MODO. They tapped out to monstrous a Fleecemane and I fake-out tapped for Hero's Downfall (which I didn't really have) just to gently caress with them and they thought it was funny rather than giving me a bunch of swear words in chat.
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 23:56
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I could see Ugin seeing some play in standard if we get some better control options in the same set. Games are currently going fairly long anyway and a card that can be multiple wraths, even at 8 mana, seems pretty great to me. Edit: Well not pretty great. 1 of potential for sure. Possibly also a couple in the sideboard.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:28
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Fated Retribution is 7 mana and sees play in that U/W Control deck that's been floating around. I can see Ugin serving double duty as another Wrath effect and as a finisher there. I guess it might be annoying to lose your Banishing Lights though.
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Dec 26, 2014 00:43
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TheKingofSprings posted:Karn sees play as a 1/2 of in quite a few MUD decks. I see Ugin as a consideration for that slot in Legacy MUD at least. Ugin doesn't savage hands but MUD decks rarely have a colored permanent at all besides Welder and bolting every turn isn't a nice thing to do to your opponent.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:19
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Ugin seems v. good
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Dec 26, 2014 01:38
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TheKingofSprings posted:Karn sees play as a 1/2 of in quite a few MUD decks. Which MUD decks? I've never seen a MUD deck that opted for Karn; at least, not a winning list.
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Dec 26, 2014 01:57
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TheKingofSprings posted:Karn sees play as a 1/2 of in quite a few MUD decks. I did not know that, that's cool.
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Dec 26, 2014 02:00
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Krigen posted:No game store or event anywhere near me keeps the basic land in the hand, what bizzaro rules are you drafting under? It's so that players can actually get basic lands in their collection, for things like redemption.
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Dec 26, 2014 02:21
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Just had to sit through a 20 minute game 1 storm durdle which I ended up forcing the Yogmoth's Will at the end of. Poor guy used up his entire clock up too. e: Also Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge Holiday Cube MVP cards Gyshall fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 02:37
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forbidden lesbian posted:I did not know that, that's cool. As it turns out, an active Metalworker reads "cast literally any colourless poo poo you want from hand" E: I really wish Ugin just costed 7 though, as is he's not significantly more backbreaking than Karn, and that would be fair even now if it were printed. I guess they had to do it to make him parallel Bolas though.
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Dec 26, 2014 02:40
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TheKingofSprings posted:As it turns out, an active Metalworker reads "cast literally any colourless poo poo you want from hand" They did it because of mono green devotion. That deck is going to be spiking one-sided boardwipes with built-in wincons from here till sunday.
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Dec 26, 2014 02:51
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I Love You! posted:They did it because of mono green devotion. That deck is going to be spiking one-sided boardwipes How?
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Dec 26, 2014 02:56
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Two sided, one sided board wipes.
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Dec 26, 2014 02:59
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TheKingofSprings posted:As it turns out, an active Metalworker reads "cast literally any colourless poo poo you want from hand" Ah yeah, it's easy to forget that Metalworker mana can be used for non-artifacts. How did that card see print
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Dec 26, 2014 03:00
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It's fairly tame among the other engines in that block.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:01
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Rinkles posted:How? It will keep Ugin in play, which is a board in itself, i guess is what I meant.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:04
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But like others have pointed out, it doesn't have the inevitability of a true finisher. There will be some decks that won't be able to beat a resolved Ugin, but I think a lot will.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:12
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Rinkles posted:But like others have pointed out, it doesn't have the inevitability of a true finisher. There will be some decks that won't be able to beat a resolved Ugin, but I think a lot will. A Lightning Bolt every turn is pretty inevitable. Why do you think Delver is such a good creature?
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Dec 26, 2014 03:18
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Rinkles posted:But like others have pointed out, it doesn't have the inevitability of a true finisher. There will be some decks that won't be able to beat a resolved Ugin, but I think a lot will. You can play Ugin onto a full board and he will be the only thing left by the time the turn ends. That's scary as gently caress for a PW especially when the best defense against walkers is typically having a full board.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:20
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Rinkles posted:But like others have pointed out, it doesn't have the inevitability of a true finisher. There will be some decks that won't be able to beat a resolved Ugin, but I think a lot will. It's nice, but it seems really bad in control mirrors against a card like Pearl Lake Ancient, which can recur lifegain & evade both modes of removal.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:24
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suicidesteve posted:A Lightning Bolt every turn is pretty inevitable. Why do you think Delver is such a good creature? Because it can't be attacked. Because it costs one mana. Because it can hold a Jitte/Sword of. I Love You! posted:You can play Ugin onto a full board and he will be the only thing left by the time the turn ends. That's scary as gently caress for a PW especially when the best defense against walkers is typically having a full board. This is pretty nice though. Him being at worst a pernicious deed at a 2 mana discount seems good. I think in standard right now, he hits everything but the Delve guys and a few Krakens? Gensuki fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 03:25
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Snacksmaniac posted:It's fairly tame among the other engines in that block. Please tell me more, this is all from before my timeTM
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Dec 26, 2014 03:27
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Not being able to do poo poo about an eldrazi titan is a big deal though. A resolved Karn can send Emrakul to hell. You don't want to -x it into range of aggro either. He's still cool, don't get me wrong, but I'm not seeing a place for him in modern. I can be wrong though. Delver is 1 mana. I don't think he fills the same role as an 8 mana planeswalker at all.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:28
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Yeah, I guess my best comparison is think of how crippling Sarkhan is when played against a board with a single enemy creature on it. Now imagine that same scenario except it works no matter how many creatures/walkers are in play. And has built-in token protection.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:28
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And he devours token and heroic decks. (E:b) Sarkhan seems like his natural nemesis: takes a beefy chunk out of Ugin whether it's from the loyalty loss of the wipe or the hasty counterattack (likely lethal after a wipe). E:though tbh sarkhan is scary to most planeswalkers Rinkles fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 26, 2014 |
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Dec 26, 2014 03:30
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