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Tekopo posted:I dunno, Steve Jackson is not actually a bad guy. Ogre is a legit cool game and i kind of want the rereleased version.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:51
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goodness posted:You don't like adventure time?
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Dec 25, 2014 19:52
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goodness posted:You don't like adventure time? Yo. Next Munchkin expansions: Homestuck Gunnerkrigg Court My Little Pony Big Bang Theory Bazinga.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:54
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Homestuck and Munchkin are a good match: both have completely obnoxious fans and go on for years after they should have ended.
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Dec 25, 2014 19:57
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Adventure Time is a good show though. I can understand a dislike for people who over-identify with it, I guess, but that seems a little petty. I mean, if you're going to play Munchkin, why not play it with a theme that seems like it would be spot-on?
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Dec 25, 2014 20:00
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malkav11 posted:I wonder if Forbidden Desert is actually flat out better than Pandemic with expansions. I can't say I've played Forbidden Desert or Pandemic with In the Lab (and isn't there a third out/coming soon? Or am I thinking of the dice game?), so I can't personally judge, but it sounds like expanded Pandemic would be a richer experience, to me. Not that there aren't plenty of coop games I'd rather play over any of Leacock's trio, starting with Flash Point and culminating with Mage Knight. As one of the main problems of Pandemic that Forbidden Desert circumvents (card management), I'd call it a strictly better game. I own OTB and ITL expansions, and I still prefer Forbidden Desert almost every time. Its more thematic, simpler in play, cheaper, and plays up to 5 without needing an expansion. You'll get more options with base pandemic + OTB + ITL, but it'll cost a lot more, and is a weaker base. I'm not sure about other pandemic expansions. There's a solo one where you play as plague inc basically, but if I were new to the hobby, I'd wait for pandemic legacy, as that is the theoretical maximum for plays within a group on any pandemic game anyway. I jumped off the Pandemic wagon after realizing they were never gonna stop making expansions.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:02
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Somberbrero posted:Adventure Time is a good show though. I can understand a dislike for people who over-identify with it, I guess, but that seems a little petty. I mean, if you're going to play Munchkin, why not play it with a theme that seems like it would be spot-on? But that doesn't answer the question of why are you playing Munchkin? I love Adventure Time, but nature of the show means that it's going to be very hard to make a well-designed game out of it, and even if you did, most of the fanbase isn't going to really care how well-designed it is, just how many references and in-jokes you can squeeze into it.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:04
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Somberbrero posted:Adventure Time is a good show though. I can understand a dislike for people who over-identify with it, I guess, but that seems a little petty. I mean, if you're going to play Munchkin, why not play it with a theme that seems like it would be spot-on?
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Dec 25, 2014 20:09
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Zero_Grade posted:Petty? In the Board Game thread? Well I never! 
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Dec 25, 2014 20:12
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Paper Kaiju posted:But that doesn't answer the question of why are you playing Munchkin? Well yeah, don't play Munchkin. I hadn't really considered that, the game probably skews more towards the kind of Hot Topic/Cryptozoic interpretation of 'haha, so wacky!' that a lot of fans would find tedious.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:12
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Is there an internet law where all board games discussions lead to Munchkins?
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Dec 25, 2014 20:15
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The lesson here is that Munchkin is terrible even as a joke recommendation.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:17
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Nerds can't shut up about it being bad. Also, lots of people have enjoyed munchkin as a step up from monopoly, and it can indeed be fun if mechanics and fairness and ending are not important.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:18
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Zero_Grade posted:Petty? In the Board Game thread? Well I never! Ludicrous. The TG hivemind would never allow such a thing.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:34
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Got some board games for christmas: Galaxy Trucker, Forbidden Desert and Pandemic: Contagion. I hadn't heard of that last one before I got it, is it any good? I also got Seasons and one of the expansions for my GF because she loves Seasons a ridiculous amount. Very excited to be building a sizable board game collection!
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Dec 25, 2014 20:43
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MildManeredManikin posted:Got some board games for christmas: Galaxy Trucker, Forbidden Desert and Pandemic: Contagion. I hadn't heard of that last one before I got it, is it any good? I also got Seasons and one of the expansions for my GF because she loves Seasons a ridiculous amount.  One of us, one of us!
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Dec 25, 2014 20:47
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How does being a spy work in Spyfall? I haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet but I am kinda confused about how it works. Since everybody but you are looking at the card in their hand to think of questions to come up with, while you need to look at the spreadsheet of possible locations to figure out what location you all are in, while not having anyone notice that you are looking at that sheet instead of your card... 
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Dec 25, 2014 20:48
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Echophonic posted:
Ah yes. I've been slowly buying games, but it takes a long time to do it without a bunch of money. I think I can budget myself out to one $50-60 game every two weeks now. Unfortunately I want to get Kemet next so that's going to take a month.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:53
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Tekopo posted:I dunno, Steve Jackson is not actually a bad guy. I learned how to play Chez Geek from he and his wife. They're quite nice. But he makes some bad games.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:55
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Deviant posted:I learned how to play Chez Geek from he and his wife. They're quite nice. He also really hates the fact that he's most well known for Munchkin, a game that he knows is poo poo and doesn't like.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:56
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Deviant posted:I learned how to play Chez Geek from he and his wife. They're quite nice. I think it's maybe fairer to say he makes one bad game with endless permutations. Unless you're counting GURPS in there or something.
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Dec 25, 2014 20:56
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BonHair posted:Nerds can't shut up about it being bad. Also, lots of people have enjoyed munchkin as a step up from monopoly, and it can indeed be fun if mechanics and fairness and ending are not important. I mean it's a cheesy party/drinking game that barely has rules. If you go into it expecting it to be Mage Knight then you might be disappointed. People can still enjoy The Hobbit as a book even though it's extremely simple and written for children compared to Dune.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:01
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There's better party/drinking games that aren't targeted to a specific audience, though. Munchkin is exclusionary by its very nature. EDIT: Also loving hell, it's right in the second post of this thread. This NEW thread. Please read that post. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 25, 2014 |
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Dec 25, 2014 21:03
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Kai Tave posted:I think it's maybe fairer to say he makes one bad game with endless permutations. Unless you're counting GURPS in there or something. Erm, what? He made Ogre/GEV, Car Wars, Illuminati, The Fantasy Trip (an early RPG which predated D&D), Killer and Star Fist. All very different games, and mostly good.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:20
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Jedit posted:Erm, what? He made Ogre/GEV, Car Wars, Illuminati, The Fantasy Trip (an early RPG which predated D&D), Killer and Star Fist. All very different games, and mostly good. Uh, yeah. That was what I was saying. Steve Jackson doesn't really make "some bad games," he makes one bad game (Munchkin) that has endless spinoffs. The rest of his catalog is generally well regarded unless you happen to be one of those people who instinctively goes "ugh, GURPS."
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Dec 25, 2014 21:22
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I think Car Wars is the perfect example of my usual issue with Steve Jackson games: No concept of elegance within rules. Yeah, you can pare things down, and the style (same with GURPS) is "here's all these ideas, use whatever", but there's something to be said about having a specific, concise set of elegant rules, an entry-point that is definitive, without being limited or constrained. Basically, what I'm saying is that I tried to teach myself the rules to Car Wars and failed miserably.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:23
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andrew smash posted:Ogre is a legit cool game and i kind of want the rereleased version. quoting myself but apparently you can now get the new old version of ogre (roughly the same as the 70s version, just hex chits and paper maps, none of the humongous kickstarter edition stuff) for like 2 bucks on amazon. I bought one.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:24
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Anyway, I played the wargame expansion to Bohnanza, and thought that it was OK, but I can't see myself playing it over the base game. Although I did screw up a few rules, so maybe getting those right would make it more fun.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:35
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Oh, you like simple/light game X? Maybe you would like game Y that is much longer and incorporates X as a mini game! (Was not a fan)
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Dec 25, 2014 21:40
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Tekopo posted:There's better party/drinking games that aren't targeted to a specific audience, though. Munchkin is exclusionary by its very nature. Right in the second post where it says just because you think a game is bad doesn't mean it is bad/not fun for other people?
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Dec 25, 2014 21:48
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goodness posted:Right in the second post where it says just because you think a game is bad doesn't mean it is bad/not fun for other people? And just because you think the game is fun doesn't mean it is fun for other people.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:51
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goodness posted:Right in the second post where it says just because you think a game is bad doesn't mean it is bad/not fun for other people? But the point is, people saying something is poo poo doesn't stop people from playing it. But saying 'No it's fun and it's good in parties' says nothing. It's empty of actual information.
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Dec 25, 2014 21:54
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I don't like Munchkin because the gameplay is shallow, the jokes are stupid and the game takes far too long.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:00
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The real problem with Munchkin is that people spend just enough time and money on it to think they need to justify that expense to people online.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:10
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S.J. posted:He also really hates the fact that he's most well known for Munchkin, a game that he knows is poo poo and doesn't like. But he sold out to the mighty dollar and produced it anyway. FE: I would to cause $$$$
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Dec 25, 2014 22:12
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Some Numbers posted:I don't like Munchkin because the gameplay is shallow, the jokes are stupid and the game takes far too long. Gameplay is shallow, but that sometimes is not a bad thing. In a party situation, you don't want a game that is going to be too difficult to learn/too cerebral to play. But Munchkin hits the stop in which the rules actively detract from the enjoyment: this is mostly due to the end-game unfortunately, which drags indefinitely/until people are out of 'gently caress-you' cards. Also, if the game ONLY works in a party/drunk situations, why is that the case? Why are there games that work perfectly well in both a 'party' atmosphere as well as outside it (Cash 'n' Guns seems to spring to mind mostly). How can it be a strong recommendation if the only enjoyment you can derive from a game is when you need a social lubricant to actually make it work? Munchkin is also a game that leads to outright un-fun situations if people are getting screwed. Munchkin is a game where doing badly/getting unlucky can directly affect how much influence you have in the game. And telling someone that he is a bad sport because he feels down because the game isn't allowing him to progress is kind of crappy. I think Munchkin can be a step, but at least to me it can lead to dead-ends in terms of people progressing to better stuff. It might be a step up from the likes of Monopoly, but it is a small step and doesn't stop the thoughts of 'board games are still the random luck-fests that I played when I was young'. With so much out there, why settle for Munchkin when there are much better stepping stones, both in terms of party games and just games in general?
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Dec 25, 2014 22:16
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Ropes4u posted:But he sold out to the mighty dollar and produced it anyway. Same. I'm surprised he hasn't used that to just... make other, better games though. But I know their #1 priority is keeping Munchkin poo poo in stock.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:18
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Tekopo posted:Yes, because it's meant to allow discussion. Why do you like Munchkin? You are free to enjoy whatever, but if you are going to recommend something, have something to back it. And yeah, people are posting 'YEAH DON'T PLAY MUNCHKIN', and I wish people would stop doing that rather than explain why a game like Munchkin is bad. People just post "YEAH DON'T PLAY MUNCHKIN" because the conversation about why Munchkin isn't a good game isn't interesting. The choices you make during your turn are rarely interesting or especially meaningful. There's little agency in your decisions, most choices are either obviously beneficial or not. A flow-chart could play the game as well as anyone. The victory mechanic doesn't reward playing well and turns the game into a slog because you just attack the winning player until you can't. The amount of variance in the door deck and the treasure deck means that difficulty of the challenge you encounter is not reliably proportionate to the reward you receive.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:19
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Somberbrero posted:People just post "YEAH DON'T PLAY MUNCHKIN" because the conversation about why Munchkin isn't a good game isn't interesting. The choices you make during your turn are rarely interesting or especially meaningful. There's little agency in your decisions, most choices are either obviously beneficial or not. A flow-chart could play the game as well as anyone. The victory mechanic doesn't reward playing well and turns the game into a slog because you just attack the winning player until you can't. The amount of variance in the door deck and the treasure deck means that difficulty of the challenge you encounter is not reliably proportionate to the reward you receive. And I find your points interesting, but that's just me, I love talking about board games, good or bad 
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Dec 25, 2014 22:22
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Tekopo posted:Alright, let's expand on that. Some of the good points about Munchkin is that, within a group that understands the source material, it leads to a good 'in-feeling' because everyone understands the jokes and can revel in them. In a close knit group that is really into a particular theme (Adventure Time, Cthulhu etc) this is great, but it creates problems in more public/open groups, especially ones that don't draw from the main nerd demographic and draws more from a demographic that doesn't immerse itself into the details of nerdy obsessions. This is my situation, actually. It's also what I meant by Munchkin being exclusionary. I will quote this in perpetuity every time this discussion rears its ugly head.
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Dec 25, 2014 22:23
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