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V2's multiplayer is terrible. There has been plenty of discussion of this very issue as both Zearoth's and Rincewind's fantastic threads enter V2.
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Oct 22, 2014 01:38
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Soylent Pudding posted:So just like real life? Perhaps, but V2 players have far better information than the actual Victorians did. Everyone would go into it knowing exactly what would happen if they didn't smack Prussia down, pronto. There'd be no illusions as to Austria or France's abilities.
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Oct 22, 2014 01:42
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Agean90 posted:The way I see it a Vicky 2 multiplayer game would need an agreement not to play as any of the big great powers except the ottomans and spain as those 2 are more like secondaries with pretensions. Would that include China + Japan? MP Viccy would seem to need a lot of rules and whatnot to work
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Oct 22, 2014 01:45
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Yeah, Paradox MP games are usually "game-y" trash even when it works right. Entire world ganging up on one person at a time stuff.
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Oct 22, 2014 06:01
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David Corbett posted:France is a great counterpoint. It starts very strong, but every day that goes by hurts you because of your lovely birth rate - especially compared to the highly fecund Germans next door. You have to play the early game aggressively with them, in my opinion, to make sure that Prussia never gets off the ground. I used to follow a few multiplayer Victoria Revolutions games back in the day. What usually happened was that Germany and France tended to be friendly because it would take both of them to beat down the UK. I specifically remembered a game in which the Franco-Prussian war consisted of a single German division occupying Paris to trigger the end of the war. There was other games in which France and Germany would make deals depending on exchanging colonies. It's probably not worth it for France to keep down Germany, because it means Russia can start taking chunks off of Prussia and Austria. While Germany and France fight, they exhaust each other making them less of a threat to the UK or Russia. A different game, but don't underestimate diplomacy in a game.
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Oct 22, 2014 07:12
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Try to grab as much Canadian land while it's still colonial to save on infamy/warscore costs. Bonus points if you somehow manage to nab all of the uncolonized parts of North America. Really you can feel free to ignore Infamy, because the AI won't be able to do much against you, and you're already in direct conflict with Great Britain anyways. A good preventative navy helps, though. Also, try to grab as much land as you can before they release Canada as a dominion because I don't think you can justify a CB against a dominion.
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Oct 22, 2014 09:44
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Agean90 posted:The way I see it a Vicky 2 multiplayer game would need an agreement not to play as any of the big great powers except the ottomans and spain as those 2 are more like secondaries with pretensions. Kinda defeats the purpose of Victoria 2 if the MP isn't filled with great powers politiking. Also Multiplayer V3 will be the death of my life.
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Oct 22, 2014 09:55
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David Corbett posted:I bet whomever was unlucky enough to play Prussia would be all kinds of hosed, since literally nobody else wants to see Germany form. Not as hosed as the guy playing China, what with the normal reaction to the thought of China pulling off westernisation.
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Oct 23, 2014 03:17
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gently caress you UK. Despite all this occupation, I was still unable to get enough warscore because I never fought their armies. And Colonial holdings don't contribute to warscore. I ended up shipping armies to South Africa and added Suez into the wargoal before they finally peaced out. Then France and the USA got all mad when I tried to complete Sinai. I never got any sort of "Liberate all of India" from the UK decision. So it was just going to be me trying to set up long slog after long slog. And considering that even by 1917 I hadn't really invested anything in Naval tech. Yeh. that was never going anywhere. I freed Azerbaijan though!
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Oct 29, 2014 00:21
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Praise the new thing called ticking warscore  Amusingly, there was one game in which I fought GB as an unciv really early and won. I was Siam, went for the usual "Annex Johore because Gold lol" thing, and the the perfidious Brits invaded me. Running around in a Jungle, why laughing at their attrition (it was so early they didnt have medicine or much military tech yet) actually worked. The next wars worked much less well, if you are an unciv, the difference between you and the civilized nations is actually smallest early in the game. A decade from the game start, civilized militaries improve by leaps and bounds, while yours dont.
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Nov 2, 2014 20:46
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Mightypeon posted:Praise the new thing called ticking warscore
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Nov 3, 2014 14:16
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Veloxyll posted:Was there a patch that lets it just keep on ticking up to 100%? because mine had stalled the hell out at just not enough. I think it caps out at 40 or something or maybe it's per objective? Either way I got screwed over when I was playing as Siam. I was going to grab some more territory from the Dutch and I invited Britain to help me out. Britain's long time rival Germany joined in for the Dutch. The war was inconclusive because while I could get enough war score to demand the colony from the Netherlands, I couldn't negotiate with them directly because Germany was now war leader for the Dutch, and I couldn't get the concession from Germany because Britain had dropped a bunch of stupid demands too because it was the war leader on my side. I had to start over and not invite Britain, who actually managed to lower my war score by continuously failing to invade Germany.
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Nov 6, 2014 09:24
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If you are going for colonies, which are fairly cheap warscore wise, it usually works. IIRC, (it has been some time for me), each inidividual war goal may be capped at 40% or so, but if you formed india from crown from the gutter, you can always add more wargoals, giving you more warscore! I have repeatedly liberated all of India without going anywhere west of Aden.
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Nov 6, 2014 19:27
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Mightypeon posted:If you are going for colonies, which are fairly cheap warscore wise, it usually works. Don't forget that adding wargoals just for the warscore drops your prestige if you don't actually get them in the peace treaty. Also, I thought ticking warscore caps out at or close to the WS score you need for the state.
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Nov 6, 2014 20:08
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Veloxyll posted:
This is why India sucks in Vanilla.
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Nov 7, 2014 00:51
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theblastizard posted:This is why India sucks in Vanilla. Everything sort of sucks in Vanilla. I remember early on that most of India would assimilate and become British. Also, if you didn't bring down the hammer on the UK within like 10 years of the game starting, then good luck ever beating them. And the rebels were out of control too. I swear the vanilla version of any Paradox game feels like an open beta that you have to pay for.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:10
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Phanos posted:Everything sort of sucks in Vanilla. I remember early on that most of India would assimilate and become British. Also, if you didn't bring down the hammer on the UK within like 10 years of the game starting, then good luck ever beating them. And the rebels were out of control too. I swear the vanilla version of any Paradox game feels like an open beta that you have to pay for. India still sucks in HoD though. By vanilla I meant unmodded, sorry for being unclear.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:13
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theblastizard posted:India still sucks in HoD though. By vanilla I meant unmodded, sorry for being unclear. Oh, I totally agree. I remember Vanilla, no expansions Vicky 2 being especially bad though. But after using NNM for so long, I don't think I could even go back to playing unmodded Vicky 2.
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Nov 7, 2014 01:21
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I remember playing Vicky 2 on release. I didn't know that you could queue up move orders, so I spent hours manually rebel stomping 
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Nov 7, 2014 04:58
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OK, I realize I have a very loose definition of 48 hours, but I've been kind of swamped lately. I should have time to update tomorrow.
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Nov 7, 2014 05:19
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Phanos posted:Everything sort of sucks in Vanilla. I remember early on that most of India would assimilate and become British. Also, if you didn't bring down the hammer on the UK within like 10 years of the game starting, then good luck ever beating them. And the rebels were out of control too. I swear the vanilla version of any Paradox game feels like an open beta that you have to pay for. So many rebels. I think when the Republicans, or possibly Jacobians, re-took India there were stacks of 100k+ troops in India. So for forming India via crown in the gutter, is it just a case of Liberate Country/free people and pick India or?
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Nov 7, 2014 07:49
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Veloxyll posted:So many rebels. I think when the Republicans, or possibly Jacobians, re-took India there were stacks of 100k+ troops in India. Forming India via crown from the gutter is a bit more complicated. Step 1: become a GP. Step 2: wait for one of the Indian minors to fall to Indian Pan-Nats. You will be offered crown from the gutter: you will annex that minor and become India, but you'll get a bunch of political reforms and lose a ton of prestige. Then, every time you sphere an Indian minor it'll apply for annexation and, of course, you'll have cores on everything Britain has. The really tricky part is Step 2 because you can't force that. By ~1900 Indian states will be undergoing revolutions every few months but few people would want to wait that long.
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Nov 7, 2014 07:56
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Patter Song posted:Forming India via crown from the gutter is a bit more complicated. Step 1: become a GP. Step 2: wait for one of the Indian minors to fall to Indian Pan-Nats. You will be offered crown from the gutter: you will annex that minor and become India, but you'll get a bunch of political reforms and lose a ton of prestige. Then, every time you sphere an Indian minor it'll apply for annexation and, of course, you'll have cores on everything Britain has. Also good luck getting all of your states from Britian.
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Nov 7, 2014 13:11
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I brought the game because of this thread, and I've finally had this realization: Militancy is a good thing, you WANT your pops to scare the conservatives into complying, and if you can scare them enough, you can start getting social policies, such as school system, and healthcare.
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Nov 7, 2014 14:34
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SniHjen posted:I brought the game because of this thread, and I've finally had this realization: That's true up to a certain point (the certain point is 1 million jacobin rebels).
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Nov 7, 2014 14:51
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GrossMurpel posted:That's true up to a certain point (the certain point is 1 million jacobin rebels every other year).
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Nov 7, 2014 15:44
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GrossMurpel posted:That's true up to a certain point (the certain point is 1 million jacobin rebels). Or even worse, you're playing as an Unciv and a bunch of reactionaries pop up, occupy your capital, and rollback all the Westernization reforms you've struggled to push through. Jacobin's forcing democracy and political reforms may be irritating, but it's not a game over scenario. Hell, sometimes maybe you want to turn Japan or Germany into a democratic republic or something.
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Nov 7, 2014 18:08
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In my Ottoman game I got broken by Jacobins in the very early game and was magically transformed into an HM's Government with all sorts of really good political reforms. On the other hand, it alsostuck me with a laissez faire party for decades. 
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Nov 7, 2014 18:16
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SniHjen posted:I brought the game because of this thread, and I've finally had this realization: Miltancy is your worst enemy as an unciv. Higher militancy means there is a greater chance of half of your population rising in a reactionary revolution and setting you back to the stone age.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:47
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I am never sure if I should go militancy or concientiousness early on, when unciv. Because I really don't want to deal with reactionaries ever. on the other hand, I DO really want to get school reforms through once I civilise
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Nov 8, 2014 06:50
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Veloxyll posted:I am never sure if I should go militancy or concientiousness early on, when unciv. Because I really don't want to deal with reactionaries ever. I'd recommend modernizing your military as soon as possible (turning all you irregulars into infantry as soon as possible is a good start). Just try to mitigate militancy as much as possible and for God's sake make sure those rebels never take your capital. I think the worst case of rebels I had was when I was playing as Japan or China in Vanilla Vicky. Japan isn't too bad because it's an island and you'll probably have a decent amount of troops but if Reactionary rebels pop up in China, then you're probably just hosed. Which I guess is somewhat historically accurate for China.
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Nov 8, 2014 09:59
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My worst case was as Johore when my entire standing army joined the reactionaries.
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Nov 8, 2014 18:01
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I for one like irregulars as an unciv. Largely because you can actually afford them. Or disband them if there is a good reason. I generally try to push conciousness. High Con High Mil gives one communists, and one can usually make a state with them. High Con low Mil is Socialists or liberals, and both have their uses. Low Con High Mil is, for most of the game, reactionaries or anarcho libs, and those just suck.
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Nov 8, 2014 19:59
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SniHjen posted:I brought the game because of this thread, and I've finally had this realization: Patter Song posted:You will be offered crown from the gutter: you will annex that minor and become India, but you'll get a bunch of political reforms and lose a ton of prestige. The best part is: Due to the way V2 event code works, if you have more reforms than the event specified, the event will ROLL BACK reforms, leaving you less liberal than before the Crown from the Gutter 
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Nov 9, 2014 22:45
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OK, I have not forgotten this thread. I was very busy until this past week, and I didn't feel like putting out the last Zulu update, as it's just ignominious failure, and not interesting failure, but "135,000 Spanish troops march from the Sahara to South Africa to crush me" failure. I will be doing a second run in this thread, but it will not begin until mid-December.
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Nov 29, 2014 04:41
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Johore Chapter I: A New Beginning 1836-1843 British, Dutch, Thai, what's the difference? They all want our precious resources. Hello, allow me to explain His Majesty's many foes, big and small. In the islands to the south, the Dutch rule over Malays like ourselves. There are Malay holdouts, like Aceh and Brunei and even distant Bali, but they may all fall. His Majesty would love to seize them before they do. To the east is the famed archipelago the Spaniards call the Philippines. The Spaniards made great profit shipping goods from Mexico through the Philippines to their home, but have lost Mexico and don't seem to care much about this area. Those enclaves on our shores, though, are the British, who claim that Singapore and Malacca are trading posts. This after Singapore has become one of the largest bases in the region! They clearly aim to finish us off. The Thai persecute our Malay brothers to the north, but we have just claims to take them back. The Burmese and the Dai Viet are in alliance and the day Siam finds itself at war with its avaricious neighbors we will turn our attention to liberation. Today, however, we must turn our view towards survival.  We are a small nation, but a wealthy and homogeneous one. This may work to our favor, if we can ever have the world recognize us. Of note: our population demands war. We may yet give it to them.  You've noticed our population has nothing to eat, have you? Ed. Note: those yellow and red pie charts are really bad news. The colors go red, yellow, green, blue, teal, with red meaning "people are getting none of their life needs," yellow meaning "some of their life needs," green "all of their life needs," blue "their everyday needs," and teal "their luxury needs." Pops who are red or yellow are starving. Note the lack of green, blue, and teal on our charts. We have the money to pay for everything, but the rich nations feel it is below their dignity to sell critical food supplies to us. Our people starve on beds of gold.   Our tiny population can only field a bare bones army. It will have to do. Luckily, we can still afford to build troop transports.  More bureaucrats today, more educators tomorrow.  You see, fair traveler, Johore's secret is that it sits on mountains of gold. Three of our four provinces produce that rarest of resources. Sadly, one cannot eat gold, so our people starve nonetheless.   South America's wars amuse me. It would be like us and our neighbors constantly warring: there simply aren't the people to replace those lost!  Our dream would be the Dutch and British fighting a major war, drawing in their allies, and leaving both too exhausted and distracted to finish us off.  It seems like a plausible dream!   Oh, instead we will simply watch the British smash the Netherlands. At least the British will sink the Dutch fleet and we will only have one power to worry about for now.   Now is the perfect time to ingratiate ourselves with the British. The Singapore garrison asked permission to march through our territory...as if I would dare defy them.  It seems the British have focused their eyes on Suriname, rather than taking Dutch holdings closer to us. They apparently feel that giving a chunk of Maine to the United States will make the world feel less scandalized about this aggression.   The ruler of Khiva is a heir of Genghis Khan himself, this move by the Persians to expand into Turkmen land is bold indeed, especially as the fellow Genghisid rulers of Bukhara followed suit.  Persia may yet be a force to be reckoned with.  Of course, we have sent out a word of congratulations to the Commander of the Faithful, the caliph in Istanbul, on his subduing of rebellious desert tribes.  I admire the fortitude of the Bolivians.  The United States grows and its influence is felt even here. Yankee merchants were once a rarity, now you can find them all over Singapore.   Now that the Dutch West Indies have shrunk to just the islands of Aruba and Curacao, will the Dutch focus more on us? It is concerning. Their fleet has sunk, but another will replace it.   Brazil continues to expand through the rainforest, but proceeds to slaughter its soldiers in the process.  Those Bolivians have some fortitude.  The spread of Islam is always welcome news!    Those American merchants in Singapore never shut up with the updates of their country's baffling politics.    Bolivia seems to have decided to concede to Brazil in exchange for beating its other rivals. Meanwhile, the Turkish reconquest of their rightful territories continues apace.  Bolivia's victory is quite compelling.  Lowering tariffs? Why would we wish to do that? Those British are fools.   Dangerous fools. The consolidation of India bears further study, it's very dangerous indeed.  Excellent! Burma and Dai Viet will attack Siam and we will sneak off with our territories while the Siamese are distracted. We will prepare the forces now.  The Siamese outnumber us three to one, but no matter!  It took no time at all for the Dutch fleet to rise again. Worrisome.  On the other hand, we are the toast of Singapore. The British will not harm us.    Infidels seizing Muslim lands is a true tragedy, is it not? Meanwhile, Brazil murders yet more of its soldiers walking around the rainforest.  It's time to watch as the armies of Dai Viet and Burma smash the Thai menace...  Oh, Dai Viet decided to remain neutral. This complicates things a bit. We have every confidence that the Burmese can crush the Thais by themselves, but it will not be a swift process. Let us sit the war out until Siam's army is all on the Burmese frontier engaging them in combat.  Tell General Shah we march in two months.  The Siamese army is occupied in Burma, now it's finally time to attack.  We're lucky we don't need to worry about what's happening in South Africa. Who cares about the Zulu?   Off to glory! Remember, if the Siamese army returns, we flee!  Bolivia's successes give us confidence. Sometimes the underdog does pull through.  The Thai sit the war out in Burma...  As our occupations continue apace.  Returning runaway slaves seems perfectly sensible, does it not?  Giving up territory that had been yours for hundreds of years, though...simply cowardly.  I should like to visit Bavaria someday and see this Walhalla for myself.   The Siamese refuse to concede, maybe pushing northwards will pressure them?  I hear the raja of the British has died...who knows what this rani Victoria will mean for us?   It probably helps our diplomats that the Burmese are sacking Bangkok as we speak.  Looks like the United States is making its destiny manifest.   Rest in peace, Zulu.  Foreign weapons! Maybe the papers of the Siamese will allow us to progress even further!   Ah, yes, over a year's worth of research overnight! These are good times indeed.  Our population has doubled! Perhaps you'd care for a tour of our dominions, old and new.  Alor Setar is the only province within our domain that produces timber, not tropical wood or gold. It is heavily populated by our standards and is a nice addition to our holdings.  Kota Bahru is denser still, and its tropical wood is a highly coveted export abroad.  Ipoh is filled with gold miners trying their luck.   Far fewer mine gold in Kuantan or Kuala Lumpur, but the potential is there.  Johor Bahru is still a small city, but it has tremendous potential. One of these days, we will reclaim Malacca and Singapore and make our lands whole. For now, we must begin thinking about targets abroad. Brunei is filled with Malays who would make excellent servants to the Johore throne.  We must hurry, because European imperialism continues its rapacious campaign.  Even if it means bowing to the Dutch, we must keep onwards.   We must not meet the fate of Morocco or Zululand.  We must not meet the fate of Siam.  We must not be Persia, standing up and fighting a war it cannot possibly win to protect Kokkand from the Russians. We must win, but to win, we must first survive and grow strong.  Strong enough to challenge the Great Powers themselves. The World, 1843 
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Dec 26, 2014 03:07
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Good luck, Patter Song. Johore looks like a fascinating campaign - sitting on a pile of money, yet surrounded by powerful foes.
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Dec 26, 2014 05:13
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How are you going to take those provinces from GB?
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Dec 26, 2014 11:09
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What's the cultural makeup of that remaining southern part of Siam? I'm not really familiar with this region in the Victoria period other than "the Dutch are assholes".
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Dec 26, 2014 11:21
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RabidWeasel posted:What's the cultural makeup of that remaining southern part of Siam? I'm not really familiar with this region in the Victoria period other than "the Dutch are assholes". Most likely Muslim Malays, there's still conflict in the Pattani region on their persecution. Also historically Malaya was more of a tin source for the British rather than gold, but I guess Victoria just doesn't model tin.
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Dec 26, 2014 12:31
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