PYF Game Glitch: I HAVE NO GREETING

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Lord Lambeth: Dec 7, 2011

GreatGreen posted:

It's beyond me how those bugs at the beginning of Skyrim are both so common and so varied. I mean... at that point in the game there are literally zero variables unaccounted for.

It would be one thing if all those bugs happened after you'd had a chance to mess around for a while, but that scene is the absolute very first thing that happens after you click "New Game -> OK."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ
Bethesda's engine :iiam:

# ? Dec 22, 2014 10:15

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# ? May 14, 2024 14:15

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

GreatGreen posted:

It's beyond me how those bugs at the beginning of Skyrim are both so common and so varied. I mean... at that point in the game there are literally zero variables unaccounted for.

It would be one thing if all those bugs happened after you'd had a chance to mess around for a while, but that scene is the absolute very first thing that happens after you click "New Game -> OK."

Someone explained how this was possible a while ago and I pretended to get it, but I actually still really don't.

# ? Dec 23, 2014 21:38

Last Chance: Dec 31, 2004

I just started Skyrim for the first time ever and upon entering one of the first towns after the introduction with the dragon/escape, one of the townsfolk ladies was rambling about the dragon... With only her hand halfway visible coming through a house wall. Thought of this thread immediately.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 08:19

Double Punctuation: Dec 30, 2009; Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!

GreatGreen posted:

It's beyond me how those bugs at the beginning of Skyrim are both so common and so varied. I mean... at that point in the game there are literally zero variables unaccounted for.

It would be one thing if all those bugs happened after you'd had a chance to mess around for a while, but that scene is the absolute very first thing that happens after you click "New Game -> OK."

It could be the computer is overloaded and the physics engine can't keep up. In most cases, using less accurate physics would be less noticeable than dropping to 15 FPS.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 08:28

Hargrimm: Sep 22, 2011; W A R R E N

dpbjinc posted:

It could be the computer is overloaded and the physics engine can't keep up. In most cases, using less accurate physics would be less noticeable than dropping to 15 FPS.

The opposite problem also exists, where if you could run Skyrim much above 60 fps, the physics would freak out because they run every frame and weren't meant to poll that frequently or something like that.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 15:32

Kimmalah: Nov 14, 2005; Basically just a baby in a trenchcoat.

Last Chance posted:

I just started Skyrim for the first time ever and upon entering one of the first towns after the introduction with the dragon/escape, one of the townsfolk ladies was rambling about the dragon... With only her hand halfway visible coming through a house wall. Thought of this thread immediately.

Welcome to Skyrim, enjoy your stay.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 16:02

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

Hargrimm posted:

The opposite problem also exists, where if you could run Skyrim much above 60 fps, the physics would freak out because they run every frame and weren't meant to poll that frequently or something like that.

Oh yeah, things freak out constantly when I play it on my TV (which accepts 120Hz output.)

# ? Dec 24, 2014 16:55

Kimmalah: Nov 14, 2005; Basically just a baby in a trenchcoat.

I love it when you're trying to have a normal conversation with an NPC and kettle blasts off into space because you stepped on it just the right way.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 17:01

Krotera: Jun 16, 2013; I AM INTO MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS AND MANY METHODS USED IN THE STOCK MARKET

Phlegmish posted:

Someone explained how this was possible a while ago and I pretended to get it, but I actually still really don't.

There's a few sources of nondeterminism as soon as the game loads -- they shouldn't affect anything but they really might.

The biggest one I can think of right offhand is the operating system's thread scheduler. The thread scheduler determines, when multiple programs want to run code at the same time -- or when one program wants to run multiple subprograms at the same time -- who gets the most time and when. As an example, if I have five cores and want to multiply all the numbers from 1 to 100 by two, then I might do 20 numbers on one core, 20 on another, 20 on the third, et cetera. The computer will perform as many tasks as it can simultaneously and otherwise work sequentially. If I told it to split the numbers into six groups, for instance, it would probably do five simultaneously and occasionally switch one out midway through the process. Something like this, where each group needs four blocks to finish:

code:

Core 1 Core 2 Core 3 Core 4 Core 5
   1      2      3      4      5
   1      2      3      4      6
   1      2      3      5      6
   1      2      4      5      6
          3      4      5      6

No one really knows what the thread scheduler is going to do -- it knows what its tasks are and can choose to assign time to them in any order it wants. It's deterministic but based on info you don't have -- if it's already using four cores, for instance, then it might only let you use the fifth one, and run all your code sequentially instead of at the same time like you asked.

But in theory that doesn't matter -- you wait for tasks to finish if you need to, and you only tell it to do things at the same time if it makes sense to do those things at the same time. All you care about is that it eventually finishes.

If you tell the OS to run your code at the same time, though, and it doesn't make sense to do it that way -- say if all the code depends on (and changes) a single thing -- then you're basically letting the operating system run should-have-been-sequential code in random order.

Here's a common example of this (not necessarily what happened in Skyrim, but I wouldn't be surprised!) -- lazy programmers who think "all my NPCs are doing things at the same time, so I will just tell the world to run the code for each of my NPCs at the same time!" That results in all kinds of fun bugs -- item duplication bugs, for instance, where two NPCs pick up the same item at the same time because they asked about it while the other NPC was getting ready to take it, something like this:

quote:

ITEM [in earshot of two NPCs]: Pick me up!

NPC 1: Can I pick you up?"
ITEM: No one owns me right now, so sure, NPC 1!
NPC 1 opens his backpack.

NPC 2: Can I pick you up?
ITEM [still on the ground]: No one owns me right now, so sure, NPC 2!
NPC 2 opens his backpack.

NPC 1 picks up the ITEM.
ITEM: I'm being owned!
NPC 2 picks up the ITEM. (seeing as it told NPC 2 it was OK to pick it up) But somehow, since NPC 2 has no knowledge of NPC 1, NPC 1 still has it!
ITEM: Wait!
The ITEM becomes very confused!

These bugs are so common they even have their own name! They're called "race conditions" and googling will find you more info about them. It comes from the idea that a bug arises when the part of the code that's supposed to run first is in a race to finish before the part that's supposed to come after it. The above problem wouldn't have happened if NPC 2 never started negotiations until NPC 1 finished his own; but since NPC 2 is allowed to talk to the item whenever it wants, NPC 1 is in a race to take the ITEM before the ITEM gets the chance to respond to NPC 2.

Skyrim, being a large project designed to take advantage of multiple processors (meaning that it tells the OS to run lots of code at the same time) written by probable morons, probably has a huge helping of them even though QA probably tried very hard to get rid of them.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 18:24

Kimmalah: Nov 14, 2005; Basically just a baby in a trenchcoat.

Krotera posted:

Skyrim, being a large project designed to take advantage of multiple processors (meaning that it tells the OS to run lots of code at the same time) written by probable morons, probably has a huge helping of them even though QA probably tried very hard to get rid of them.

I remember a modder mentioning that when he was going through some of Skyrim's code he kept finding really basic mistakes that were typical of what you might find from beginner-level programmers.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 18:51

Krotera: Jun 16, 2013; I AM INTO MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS AND MANY METHODS USED IN THE STOCK MARKET

Kimmalah posted:

I remember a modder mentioning that when he was going through some of Skyrim's code he kept finding really basic mistakes that were typical of what you might find from beginner-level programmers.

Not to mention, of course, that it's written in a language whose innate support for memory safety (making sure you don't overwrite other people's data), type safety (only performing operations on a thing if you're really sure those operations make sense for it), and parallelism (running things at the same time without shooting yourself in the foot) makes wiser and more experienced programmers sweat bullets: C++.

As likely as accidentally duplicating the item, you might as well expect a poorly-written C++ program to copy some random-rear end memory or copy a null pointer and receive horrible fiery death in itemlike form. Or you might turn a goat into an item or something. It's really hard to say and it's kind of miraculous things like that don't occur all the time in Skyrim.

EDIT: You can replace "probable morons" with "provable morons" if you want, come to think of it.

Krotera has a new favorite as of 19:05 on Dec 24, 2014

# ? Dec 24, 2014 18:54

Wes Warhammer: Oct 19, 2012

Was playing Borderlands 2 recently, got to the side mission where you fight Doc Mercy. When I finally beat him, I did so by shooting him down a flight of stairs, which for whatever reason caused his corpse to flop around like a fish out of water as I turned in the mission. I don't know why that happened, but it was hilarious.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 19:53

moonsour: Feb 13, 2007; Ortowned

FFXIV is currently having a strange bug with very specific conditions attached. If you target someone or an object, toggle walk on, mount your basic chocobo and strafe left your model increases in size. ONLY while strafing left. If you dismount while still moving left, though, the size change stays until you change maps. The appearance is only visible to people who are on the map at the time you actually change your size, otherwise you will appear normal.

moonsour has a new favorite as of 20:17 on Dec 24, 2014

# ? Dec 24, 2014 20:13

m2pt5: May 18, 2005; THAT GOD DAMN MOSQUITO JUST KEEPS COMING BACK

moonsour posted:

FFXIV is currently having a strange bug with very specific conditions attached. If you target someone or an object, toggle walk on, mount your basic chocobo and strafe left your model increases in size. ONLY while strafing left. If you dismount while still moving left, though, the size change stays until you change maps. The appearance is only visible to people who are on the map at the time you actually change your size, otherwise you will appear normal.

How do people figure this poo poo out? It totally sounds like one of those old AOL discussion board ways to find Mew or something.

# ? Dec 24, 2014 22:34

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

moonsour posted:

FFXIV is currently having a strange bug with very specific conditions attached. If you target someone or an object, toggle walk on, mount your basic chocobo and strafe left your model increases in size. ONLY while strafing left. If you dismount while still moving left, though, the size change stays until you change maps. The appearance is only visible to people who are on the map at the time you actually change your size, otherwise you will appear normal.

How big can you get? It'd be pretty funny to get to the size of a raid boss and then distract a raid like that.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 00:05

Lil Swamp Booger Baby: Aug 1, 1981

Krotera posted:

There's a few sources of nondeterminism as soon as the game loads -- they shouldn't affect anything but they really might.

The biggest one I can think of right offhand is the operating system's thread scheduler. The thread scheduler determines, when multiple programs want to run code at the same time -- or when one program wants to run multiple subprograms at the same time -- who gets the most time and when. As an example, if I have five cores and want to multiply all the numbers from 1 to 100 by two, then I might do 20 numbers on one core, 20 on another, 20 on the third, et cetera. The computer will perform as many tasks as it can simultaneously and otherwise work sequentially. If I told it to split the numbers into six groups, for instance, it would probably do five simultaneously and occasionally switch one out midway through the process. Something like this, where each group needs four blocks to finish:
code:
Core 1 Core 2 Core 3 Core 4 Core 5
   1      2      3      4      5
   1      2      3      4      6
   1      2      3      5      6
   1      2      4      5      6
          3      4      5      6
No one really knows what the thread scheduler is going to do -- it knows what its tasks are and can choose to assign time to them in any order it wants. It's deterministic but based on info you don't have -- if it's already using four cores, for instance, then it might only let you use the fifth one, and run all your code sequentially instead of at the same time like you asked.

But in theory that doesn't matter -- you wait for tasks to finish if you need to, and you only tell it to do things at the same time if it makes sense to do those things at the same time. All you care about is that it eventually finishes.

If you tell the OS to run your code at the same time, though, and it doesn't make sense to do it that way -- say if all the code depends on (and changes) a single thing -- then you're basically letting the operating system run should-have-been-sequential code in random order.

Here's a common example of this (not necessarily what happened in Skyrim, but I wouldn't be surprised!) -- lazy programmers who think "all my NPCs are doing things at the same time, so I will just tell the world to run the code for each of my NPCs at the same time!" That results in all kinds of fun bugs -- item duplication bugs, for instance, where two NPCs pick up the same item at the same time because they asked about it while the other NPC was getting ready to take it, something like this:

These bugs are so common they even have their own name! They're called "race conditions" and googling will find you more info about them. It comes from the idea that a bug arises when the part of the code that's supposed to run first is in a race to finish before the part that's supposed to come after it. The above problem wouldn't have happened if NPC 2 never started negotiations until NPC 1 finished his own; but since NPC 2 is allowed to talk to the item whenever it wants, NPC 1 is in a race to take the ITEM before the ITEM gets the chance to respond to NPC 2.

Skyrim, being a large project designed to take advantage of multiple processors (meaning that it tells the OS to run lots of code at the same time) written by probable morons, probably has a huge helping of them even though QA probably tried very hard to get rid of them.

I like WHY THIS GLITCH HAPPENING explanation posts like these. Not only are they interesting, but they make Skyrim seem like the feverish imagination world of an insane old man with dementia that has forgotten even the basic rules of the world.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 00:14

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

It must be a nightmare to try to fix glitches in Bethesda games where any number of variables could be causing it.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 00:18

Lil Swamp Booger Baby: Aug 1, 1981

Tbh my favorite part of Bethesda games are the blank unblinking expressions of the NPCs, there'll be some crazy poo poo going on and the dude next to you is just boring holes into your skull with his eyes ignoring everything around him, like he was behind the dead body contorting and twisting into vile shapes in the air the whole time and he wants to see your fear.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 00:23

Potato Jones: Apr 9, 2007; Clever Betty

RatHat posted:

How big can you get? It'd be pretty funny to get to the size of a raid boss and then distract a raid like that.

It doesn't stack, unfortunately.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 01:28

Horrible Smutbeast: Sep 2, 2011

moonsour posted:

FFXIV is currently having a strange bug with very specific conditions attached. If you target someone or an object, toggle walk on, mount your basic chocobo and strafe left your model increases in size. ONLY while strafing left. If you dismount while still moving left, though, the size change stays until you change maps. The appearance is only visible to people who are on the map at the time you actually change your size, otherwise you will appear normal.

Another cool one is in South Shroud if you jump up on certain things in certain places you can basically run around the out of bounds area freely.

If you accidentally jump into a very specific part of the map though...well...

# ? Dec 25, 2014 01:35

GreatGreen: Jul 3, 2007; That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

RatHat posted:

How big can you get? It'd be pretty funny to get to the size of a raid boss and then distract a raid like that.

Seriously. Who in the world would find a glitch that great then waste the screenshot on a model that's only like 1.2 times the size of the normal one.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 01:38

Zereth: Jul 9, 2003

GreatGreen posted:

Seriously. Who in the world would find a glitch that great then waste the screenshot on a model that's only like 1.2 times the size of the normal one.

Because getting on a chocobo again resets your size to normal.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 01:57

Cygna: Mar 6, 2009; The ghost of a god is no man.

JebanyPedal posted:

I like WHY THIS GLITCH HAPPENING explanation posts like these. Not only are they interesting, but they make Skyrim seem like the feverish imagination world of an insane old man with dementia that has forgotten even the basic rules of the world.

Pretty sure this is the canon explanation for the Elder Scrolls universe.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 03:47

Kimmalah: Nov 14, 2005; Basically just a baby in a trenchcoat.

Ratspeaker posted:

Pretty sure this is the canon explanation for the Elder Scrolls universe.

I thought that was CHIM? If anything goes wrong, just wave your hands and blame it on CHIM.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 04:05

maou shoujo: Apr 12, 2014; ニンゲンの表裏一体

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

Another cool one is in South Shroud if you jump up on certain things in certain places you can basically run around the out of bounds area freely.

If you accidentally jump into a very specific part of the map though...well...

Hey, it's the Realm of Darkness from Kingdom Hearts! The references never stop with this game.

(yes I know it's [probably] not intentional)

# ? Dec 25, 2014 08:19

Fathis Munk: Feb 23, 2013; ??? ?

JebanyPedal posted:

Tbh my favorite part of Bethesda games are the blank unblinking expressions of the NPCs, there'll be some crazy poo poo going on and the dude next to you is just boring holes into your skull with his eyes ignoring everything around him, like he was behind the dead body contorting and twisting into vile shapes in the air the whole time and he wants to see your fear.

Insert the gods know what you've done.mp4

# ? Dec 25, 2014 12:26

canis minor: May 4, 2011

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

Another cool one is in South Shroud if you jump up on certain things in certain places you can basically run around the out of bounds area freely.

If you accidentally jump into a very specific part of the map though...well...

This reminds of a bug that people exploited in Guild Wars 2. On the WvW maps there's water underneath all terrain - it was possible to fall through the land (I don't really know under what conditions) and then attack people from underneath, using certain skills that don't use targeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxv9ZVuO3M for example). You could also go to enemy camp (there're guards by the gates that instakill you, but that doesn't apply if they can't see you) and kill all npcs / players chilling out in "safe" area.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 15:41

Kimmalah: Nov 14, 2005; Basically just a baby in a trenchcoat.

Fathis Munk posted:

Insert the gods know what you've done.mp4

More like Bethesda games in a nutshell.mp4

# ? Dec 25, 2014 17:16

moonsour: Feb 13, 2007; Ortowned

m2pt5 posted:

How do people figure this poo poo out? It totally sounds like one of those old AOL discussion board ways to find Mew or something.

It's not uncommon to be clicking on someone so all it would take is a console user to be walking back and forth looking at someone and seeing their own model visibly increasing in size.

And yeah, like other posters said, it doesn't stack.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 17:18

Horrible Smutbeast: Sep 2, 2011

eithedog posted:

This reminds of a bug that people exploited in Guild Wars 2. On the WvW maps there's water underneath all terrain - it was possible to fall through the land (I don't really know under what conditions) and then attack people from underneath, using certain skills that don't use targeting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxv9ZVuO3M for example). You could also go to enemy camp (there're guards by the gates that instakill you, but that doesn't apply if they can't see you) and kill all npcs / players chilling out in "safe" area.

I checked again and on certain spots of the terrain you can actually target people and heal them or attack monsters. The only problem is half of them have ranged attacks and can actually attack you back.

# ? Dec 25, 2014 18:19

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Can't post for 3 days!

The talk of Skyrim bugs reminded me of Oblivion's item duplication bugs. I know how they work, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they work that way.

The one that worked all the time and was never patched out happened if you equip a scroll that you've got more than one of, and then drop an item while still in the same menus. Some wires get crossed, and when you unpause you've now cloned the dropped item by as many as the amount of scrolls you equipped. I could never get this to work beyond making a second copy of a single item, but I know you could.

There was another one, very similar, that did get fixed, though. If you drop an item, and then immediately shoot it with an arrow, then for some reason the item would be duplicated by the amount of the type of arrow you used... and you're usually carrying hundreds of arrows. Since the duplication happens after the arrow's stopped traveling, and the easiest way to land this specific shot was by lookig up, your items would literally rain down on you from above. Unfortunately, I can't find any videos of this anymore.

EDIT: vv I'm terrible at serching those sorts of things. All the search terms I tried just came up with people explaining the scroll glitch.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 03:28 on Dec 26, 2014

# ? Dec 26, 2014 03:24

THE PENETRATOR: Jul 27, 2014; by Lowtax

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oblivion+arrow+duplication+glitch

way hard 2 find vids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llCJg5LiKo8

f*king impossible

# ? Dec 26, 2014 03:26

THE PENETRATOR: Jul 27, 2014; by Lowtax

if this were a news agency i'd fire you right now

# ? Dec 26, 2014 03:28

EXAKT Science: Aug 14, 2012; 8 on the Kinsey scale

Cleretic posted:

The talk of Skyrim bugs reminded me of Oblivion's item duplication bugs. I know how they work, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they work that way.

The one that worked all the time and was never patched out happened if you equip a scroll that you've got more than one of, and then drop an item while still in the same menus. Some wires get crossed, and when you unpause you've now cloned the dropped item by as many as the amount of scrolls you equipped. I could never get this to work beyond making a second copy of a single item, but I know you could.

There was another one, very similar, that did get fixed, though. If you drop an item, and then immediately shoot it with an arrow, then for some reason the item would be duplicated by the amount of the type of arrow you used... and you're usually carrying hundreds of arrows. Since the duplication happens after the arrow's stopped traveling, and the easiest way to land this specific shot was by lookig up, your items would literally rain down on you from above. Unfortunately, I can't find any videos of this anymore.

EDIT: vv I'm terrible at serching those sorts of things. All the search terms I tried just came up with people explaining the scroll glitch.

Dammit, now I want to go back and play Oblivion again.

# ? Dec 26, 2014 06:39

Abandoned Toaster: Jun 4, 2008

I guess as long as we're talking about Bethesda this happened to me the other day. I was playing some Old World Blues in Fallout: New Vegas. I'm sure most people who mess around with it know that by abusing console commands you can get some silly stuff, like people dying in Stretch Armstrong poses, or walking around with gibbed heads, but this one happened on its own and I helped it along.

So in one of the facilities there was a dead Lobotomite enemy. I blew the legs and head off his corpse while fighting a robot with explosives, then left to another area to start a mission. The mission places you back in this same room upon completion, and you can do an "advanced" version of the mission from the same place, which I did a few times. I don't know for sure but I THINK that somehow this caused his dismembered limbs to duplicate. As I started to leave I saw this pile of arms and legs and so I resurrect_1'd him which mean he simply got up instead of totally respawning. Aiming in VATS at a torso missing its limbs gives them back, but you can't shoot them off again (to my knowledge), and since he was scripted to die when you entered an area for the first time he always had 0 health.

I count something like 7 legs, 5 arms, and 2 heads in that picture, and in another there were 3 heads. I kept messing with the resurrect command but I could never get more limbs out of him, although his body became more and more broken until he had an upside-down head gliding around on one knee while trying to hit me with his arms stuck out to one side like he was trying to block a ball and ring of limbs orbiting him. Also his inventory kept increasing itself until he had like 5 cameras, a sledgehammer, a shovel, a lead pipe, 8 tin cans, a baseball, and like 3 dirty waters by the time I stopped.

# ? Dec 26, 2014 09:48

Owl Inspector: Sep 14, 2011

That's actually part of the normal procedure to spawn the end boss, the Bethesdite. You'll know you're on the right track when there are 3 turpentines in its inventory.

# ? Dec 27, 2014 08:33