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Pohl posted:Stigma isn't about changing people's attitudes, it is about changing their behavior. And ruining their arms, if I remember right.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:15
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Hey Larry Page I work for Google, too! Come to my wedding!
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Dec 29, 2014 21:18
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And ruining their arms, if I remember right. That was the best GBS thread in a long time.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:20
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repeating posted:Hey Larry Page I work for Google, too! Come to my wedding! Hey Larry Page you're coming to the golf course where I'm a member and holding my wedding, feel free to stop by if you get the chance!
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Dec 29, 2014 21:20
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Pohl posted:Yes, social stigma is a powerful tool when combating incorrect behaviors. Changing hearts and minds is great and all, hell, it is ideal. However, it isn't practical on a social level in a context that is large enough to matter. Not fast enough anyway, and the obvious answer is to shame people into stop acting like they act. You can't make people not think something, but you can affect their behavior. That is where social shaming comes in. But we are talking about the vast majority of people. Perhaps as a Canadian I have an optimistic view on things and it really is even shittier than I imagine down there but it seems to me that for most people it is less about behavior than it is about attitude. Don't get me wrong, if someone says something overtly racist, kick that motherfucker to the curb and be very clear about what is wrong with that. Again I have no problem with calling people racists when they act racist, I just think its silly to equate say... my mother's slight discomfort when dealing with someone of a different race or culture, with say... the poo poo that came out of Donald Sterling's mouth. If both are equally racist with no qualifiers or anything else then the term really loses almost all meaning. quote:And ruining their arms, if I remember right. I think that is stigmata.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:22
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Nonsense posted:"Them Feels." Is this "journalism for young people"? Because if it is I don't want any of it.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:22
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Caros posted:I think that is stigmata. I thought that was when your vision goes bad.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:24
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Yeah, "member of the golf course, located on Marine Corps Base Hawaii, which is one of the multiple pre-planned sites of my wedding" is on the same standing as "President of the United States of America trying to chill a couple days."
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Dec 29, 2014 21:24
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Caros posted:Again I have no problem with calling people racists when they act racist, I just think its silly to equate say... my mother's slight discomfort when dealing with someone of a different race or culture, with say... the poo poo that came out of Donald Sterling's mouth. If both are equally racist with no qualifiers or anything else then the term really loses almost all meaning. America has a bit more demographical diversity as a nation than Canada, so our definitions for whats racist vary extensively. Whats racist in the Bronx isn't always the same as whats racist in Selma. repeating posted:Yeah, "member of the golf course, located on Marine Corps Base Hawaii, which is one of the multiple pre-planned sites of my wedding" is on the same standing as "President of the United States of America trying to chill a couple days." Its this kinda attitude that gets you labelled an elitist snob or entitled, lazy wimp in American politics. You don't act like an elitist snob, you minimize the opportunities for a mistake which can be used to portray you as a snob. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 21:25
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Caros posted:But we are talking about the vast majority of people. Perhaps as a Canadian I have an optimistic view on things and it really is even shittier than I imagine down there but it seems to me that for most people it is less about behavior than it is about attitude. Don't get me wrong, if someone says something overtly racist, kick that motherfucker to the curb and be very clear about what is wrong with that. Nobody said they were equally racist, but they're both racist.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:28
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Petey posted:whatever you are doing you should probably pause and read this: http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/on-nerd-entitlement-rebel-alliance-empire There's a lot of insight here but I refuse to acknowledge the near-universal experience of growing up unfuckable and horny as some incredibly traumatic thing that we should pity people for just because 1) A particular social group is dealing with it haphazardly in the same way they deal with everything: endlessly dissecting it into incredibly complicated sets of information under a microscope for signs that there's some tiny lever to pull and win. 2) someone admitted that it happens to both sexes and gives everyone weird pathos to deal with through their lives.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:28
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Caros posted:Again I have no problem with calling people racists when they act racist, I just think its silly to equate say... my mother's slight discomfort when dealing with someone of a different race or culture, with say... the poo poo that came out of Donald Sterling's mouth. If both are equally racist with no qualifiers or anything else then the term really loses almost all meaning. Both of these things come from the same hateful, racist place and the only difference is that your mother (thankfully) does not have the situational power to act on her racist inclinations and do any real harm. If white people define racism as "obviously hateful speech/actions" and refuse to consider other malignant forms racism can manifest, let's say something like.... your mother's "slight" discomfort when dealing with someone of a different race (she is this way because...?) then there is little hope of overcoming racism because it will still continue to quietly exist in people's hearts and inadvertently will affect how they act.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:30
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Just be attractive and live a good life and stop worrying about stepping on people. George Washington sure didn't give a poo poo about nerds or slaves.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:30
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Nonsense posted:"Them Feels." It was written by an internet person. Not really surprised it has internet words.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:31
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Seems Obama's ending the year as popular as the greatest president in history. 
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Dec 29, 2014 21:31
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repeating posted:Yeah, "member of the golf course, located on Marine Corps Base Hawaii, which is one of the multiple pre-planned sites of my wedding" is on the same standing as "President of the United States of America trying to chill a couple days." I will say that when Dick Cheney went shooting at my club I sort of didn't show up the week before, during, and after.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:32
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I remember reading some crazy person's post where he was talking about how we needed to stockpile on guns and how Obama's approval rating was in the low 20s so revolution is upon us. Ahahahahaha.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:34
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Obama Republicans will be a thing in the next 10 years right?
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Dec 29, 2014 21:35
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Nonsense posted:Obama Republicans will be a thing in the next 10 years right? http://www.republicansforobama.org/
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Dec 29, 2014 21:38
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Nonsense posted:Obama Republicans will be a thing in the next 10 years right? I think it'll take a little longer than that given the visceral race-hatred much of the right holds towards him, but it'll likely happen eventually (at least in "[DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT] is the most radically liberal/socialist president ever, oh how I wish we had a sensible centrist like Obama back in the White House again!").
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Dec 29, 2014 21:39
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we can do better than that
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Dec 29, 2014 21:42
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Fried Chicken posted:The Atlantic dropped another mega-piece, this time on the military. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/12/the-tragedy-of-the-american-military/383516/ This is an interesting enough article that it doesn't deserve getting lost in this swamp, so I started a separate thread for it.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:45
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Intel&Sebastian posted:There's a lot of insight here but I refuse to acknowledge the near-universal experience of growing up unfuckable and horny as some incredibly traumatic thing that we should pity people for just because Near universal for the nerdy social group maybe. Being awkward and getting poo poo on constantly by popular people sure as hell wasn't good for the psyche of my peers. Meeting someone who will show affection to you was the biggest deal I can remember from those years. Feeling loved and worthwhile (not from sex mind you, just from general affection), instead of the constant calls for you to just kill yourself already, that nobody would miss you? Getting body shamed by popular girls in the middle of class, from rumors started by their guy friends? Sure was a nice change to all of that. It was validation that you could be loved. That you didn't deserve to just die already and get out of their sight. That sort of thing is pushed back. Made a dull roar in the back of your mind through the days, instead of front and center of your world. Being lonely was a big deal.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:45
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Caros posted:So most people are morally deviant shitheels by virtue of having implicit bias? That is a pretty hosed up thing to say, and good luck to you on changing hearts and minds when you are of the opinion that most americans are morally deviant shitheels. Out of curiosity, do you include yourself in that category? Or are you one of the good ones? Of course? I mean I do what I can to examine myself but I'm not exactly trying to let myself off the hook for moral deviancy. Being an American who makes a living wage means I am starting the "race to be not racist" several miles behind the starting line.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:46
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Quote of the day, “Throughout his career in public service, Mr. Scalise has spoken to hundreds of different groups with a broad range of viewpoints. In every case, he was building support for his policies, not the other way around. In 2002, he made himself available to anyone who wanted to hear his proposal to eliminate slush funds that wasted millions of taxpayer dollars as well as his opposition to a proposed tax increase on middle-class families.” ~ Moira Bagley, spokesperson for House Majority Whip Steve Scalise on why he spoke at the 2002 convention of the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, which is exactly what you think it would be.
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Dec 29, 2014 21:58
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Intel&Sebastian posted:There's a lot of insight here but I refuse to acknowledge the near-universal experience of growing up unfuckable and horny as some incredibly traumatic thing that we should pity people for just because i don't think the article calls for pity though
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Dec 29, 2014 22:04
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:I love barbecue, and like Chicago well enough, but look, it's the holidays. Just get yourself some masa harina, corn husks, and some shredded green chile pork, and make some tamales. Get yourself in the spirit. Best tamales need lard.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:18
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Talmonis posted:Near universal for the nerdy social group maybe. Being awkward and getting poo poo on constantly by popular people sure as hell wasn't good for the psyche of my peers. Meeting someone who will show affection to you was the biggest deal I can remember from those years. Feeling loved and worthwhile (not from sex mind you, just from general affection), instead of the constant calls for you to just kill yourself already, that nobody would miss you? Getting body shamed by popular girls in the middle of class, from rumors started by their guy friends? Sure was a nice change to all of that. It was validation that you could be loved. That you didn't deserve to just die already and get out of their sight. That sort of thing is pushed back. Made a dull roar in the back of your mind through the days, instead of front and center of your world. Being lonely was a big deal. The vast majority of people on Earth have experiences from their youth that scar them like this (be it romantic, violent, psychological, whatever) because it's a time of life where you don't have the experience or ability to recognize the light at the end of the tunnel and other people in your peer group don't have the experience or ability to give a flying gently caress about anything but themselves most of the time. Those things are harder to deal with than adult trauma and might even stick with you well into adulthood. Personally, I think It's a mistake for "nerd" or "tech" culture to be writing about it as if this is a brand new phenomenon, or that this kind of experience automatically dumps people into "nerd" culture, or that only they have ever experienced and will never recover from because it's so unique and new. I think a lot of great work is being done pointing out and hammering away at some of the lesser acknowledged causes of weirdo sexual pathos and identification of MRA/PUA bullshit as a gross dead end for male frustration...but at the same time there's a forest for the trees effect. People today are constantly mistaking a better understanding of a problem for something that is some entirely new problem that only cropped up in the 2000's. Petey posted:i don't think the article calls for pity though Might just be my opinion but I certainly thought a lot of the article was spent trying to acknowledge some kinship and shared sadness between the bad experiences of MRA/PUA/Tech/Nerd lovely males and her time as a frustrated sexless youngster. Again, I think it's a forest for the trees situation where she pulled back enough to say "Hey, nerd guys and nerd girls have this" when it strikes me as something that we've known happens to almost every single person who has ever lived.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:21
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, “Throughout his career in public service, Mr. Scalise has spoken to hundreds of different groups with a broad range of viewpoints. In every case, he was building support for his policies, not the other way around. In 2002, he made himself available to anyone who wanted to hear his proposal to eliminate slush funds that wasted millions of taxpayer dollars as well as his opposition to a proposed tax increase on middle-class families.” ~ Moira Bagley, spokesperson for House Majority Whip Steve Scalise on why he spoke at the 2002 convention of the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, which is exactly what you think it would be. are all europeans white?
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Dec 29, 2014 22:22
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forbidden lesbian posted:are all europeans white? A significant amount of europeans (and prolly even more Americans) certainly would like this to be the case, yeah. e: IRT the European-American Unity and Rights Organization, I will direct you to its wikipage: wikipedia posted:The European-American Unity and Rights Organization (EURO) is a white nationalist organization in the United States. Led by former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke, it was founded in 2000. Welp! Enough evidence for me! MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 22:25
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forbidden lesbian posted:are all europeans white? If that group had their way. I mean come on, it was literally founded by a KKK Grand Wizard.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:25
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I have to imagine that Weddinggate 2014 went down something like this Wedding is scheduled President comes to town and decides he wants to golf Aides take care of details President doesn't know he inconvenienced a wedding until it shows up in the news. Someone probably should have gone "Oh hey, Barry, you sure you want to golf today? Messing up a military wedding will probably look bad in the press." This is of course if that info was ever even related to his staff. It's possible that the staff at the base heard the President wanted to golf and said, "Well, make the arrangements."
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Dec 29, 2014 22:27
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forbidden lesbian posted:are all europeans white? You're reading it wrong. They don't want unity between Europe and America. "European-American" is intended to be read as a contrast to "African-American". It was founded by David Duke and Scalise is from Louisiana, so there's no way he didn't know what the group was all about.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:29
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nutranurse posted:A significant amount of europeans (and prolly even more Americans) certainly would like this to be the case, yeah. Greatbacon posted:If that group had their way. I mean come on, it was literally founded by a KKK Grand Wizard. Sorry, I was just kinda pointing out how retarded the guy was for calling it European-American Unity instead of something more correct to his views, like White-American Unity. I do in fact realize it is massively massively racist.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:31
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Joementum posted:You're reading it wrong. They don't want unity between Europe and America. "European-American" is intended to be read as a contrast to "African-American". TBH, I'm positive him founding an out-and-out white nationalist group will poll well with the base and independents.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:31
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Local news station posted a story about WeddingGhazi and the comments will take your breath away! https://www.facebook.com/UpNorthLive/posts/876130332431664
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Dec 29, 2014 22:32
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Ah man even Joe read me wrong  I have failed
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Dec 29, 2014 22:32
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To be fair to St. Ronnie, December 1986 was when he testified to congress about Iran/Contra, which prompted the biggest one-week drop in approval for any president in history. He was at around 63% for much of his second term to that point.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:32
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Joementum posted:You're reading it wrong. They don't want unity between Europe and America. "European-American" is intended to be read as a contrast to "African-American". Maybe he "didn't know" in the sense that the palpable racism suffusing the air around him was invisible because he's spent his life in a rarefied environment in which that kind of poo poo is OK and he's never seen anything but validation from his peers when it comes to his racist views.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:37
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I fully support an investigation into golfghazi in the hopes that it convinces Obama to stop playing a loving lovely 'game'.
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Dec 29, 2014 22:53
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