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devmd01 posted:Oh yeah, I kind of forgot about that. In that case, strip his goddamn license. In the whole Monza bit, the random move towards the outside of the track under braking was the scariest part. That's a great way to get on the grass and swing the nose into unprepared wall at high speed.
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Dec 21, 2014 06:37
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Dudley posted:Yeah it's one of the reasons LeMans and especially Nurburgring's 24hr races own. That's pretty amazing since GT3 cars don't race at Le Mans or in the WEC and the convergence talks between SRO and the ACO broke down in a complete shambles.
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Dec 21, 2014 15:23
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GTE and GT3 are the same thing to everyone except the people having pointless arguments about it. They're both harperdc posted:a formula where the cars are balanced, they resemble the road versions, they're relatively cost-effective compared with other options, and they're fast enough for pros to drive and easy enough to amateurs to get behind the wheel of as well. Dudley fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 19:14
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Not really. There's no GT3 homologation spec that manufacturers can build cars for, and there's much less performance balancing in GTE, and the cars aren't nearly as easy to drive, nor as cheap. Words matter, otherwise we can all just sit around talking about how awesome it is to see those NASCARs race at Monaco and Le Mans. After all they've all got four wheels and a driver and it's not like the difference really matters to most people.
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Dec 21, 2014 23:04
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I've heard GTE is a whole hell of a lot easier to drive than most GT3s (by Townsend during last years Daytona coverage, for example), thanks to the fact that they still allow traction control and adaptive grip. Which is both dumb+bad, in my EVER SO HUMBLE opinion. e: poo poo, i'm dumb, GT3 has traction control too. its the old GTD spec I'm thinking of. Traction control still sucks. Also I bet the better rubber doesn't hurt, stateside anyway Regardless, GTE will stay around as long as the manufacturers want it to. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see it get enveloped in the GT3 wave. Cygni fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 21, 2014 |
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Dec 21, 2014 23:10
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GT3 is a less traditional format, wherein you build it and then SRO will balance it to a benchmark to be as fair as possible to the whole field (so that the Bentley and the Audi R8 both can go around a track at roughly the same lap time in the hands of the same driver). GTEs are still built to a stricter rule set AND THEN given performance balances based on the results in the race. I don't think GT3s are quite as performance-balanced due to the upgrade limitations too. Allowing traction control is one of the ways they make it more approachable to those gentlemen racers, and honestly by now since it's such ubiquitous technology it looks foolish to leave it out of racing. I know there should be a purity to racing, but these are street-based machines, and at a certain point it just looks like an ostrich with its head in the sand to ignore things like TC and ABS.
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Dec 21, 2014 23:27
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Part of the confusion is the 2 classes being so close over a single lap, the ELMS have to force the GTC (GT3) class to the back by giving them tiny fuel tanks. I'd like to see the GTE regs being changed to speed them up a bit. Also someone really needs to come up with a new standarised set of names because having at least 7 names (GTE, GTLM, GT3, GTC, GTD, SP-Pro and SP9 off the top of my head) to describe 2 and a half near-identical classes of car is ridiculous.
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Dec 22, 2014 00:10
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Cygni posted:I've heard GTE is a whole hell of a lot easier to drive than most GT3s (by Townsend during last years Daytona coverage, for example), thanks to the fact that they still allow traction control and adaptive grip. Which is both dumb+bad, in my EVER SO HUMBLE opinion. e: poo poo, i'm dumb, GT3 has traction control too. its the old GTD spec I'm thinking of. Traction control still sucks. Even P1 cars have traction control.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:45
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drgitlin posted:Even P1 cars have traction control. I hate the P1 regs too. 
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Dec 22, 2014 19:10
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Cygni posted:I hate the P1 regs too. they're the best since the Group C days, it's allowing for multiple ways to meet the same goal. it's awesome. unless you just hate prototypes, in which case any formula is going to be bad.
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Dec 23, 2014 07:18
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I like P2/DP/PC, but P1 does nothing for me. I know other people digem and that's cool, but I'm legitimately sad manufactures have come on board because I was hoping it would die sooner rather than later. I dislike pretty much every aspect of the spec, honestly. Different strokes. It looks like it will be around for a while, so I'll just be POUTING for years while yall enjoy it, anyway. 
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Dec 23, 2014 09:46
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Prototypes seem to me to be in the best spot when the cars are expensive enough to feature top shelf technology, but cheap enough that a large pool of privateers can also access those cars. Along with that you need them to be not too complicated so that the privateers can also have a legitimate shot to win. The first year or two of GT1 is like, the ideal situation. Make a new GT1 strictly homologated, no less than 500 cars per year built for sale to the public, must meet both European and EPA specs. Adjust all rules as accordingly, do not budge one inch on number of cars required to sell. poo poo would own.
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Dec 23, 2014 13:39
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Cygni posted:I like P2/DP/PC, but P1 does nothing for me. I know other people digem and that's cool, but I'm legitimately sad manufactures have come on board because I was hoping it would die sooner rather than later. I dislike pretty much every aspect of the spec, honestly. Different strokes. I just don't like the design is heading in P1 or P2. It just looks extremely complicated for the sake of looking extremely complicated and built in confined design lines like the goofy wedge front fenders. If you've seen Jalopnik's maybe leak of the GT-R LM, It's cool it's a front mid-engine car, but it looks really goofy looking and closer to the Panoz Esperante than a GT-R. Why I'll take GT1 again with stricter homologation and let all the manufactures go nuts.
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Dec 23, 2014 15:24
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I like how over the top P1's are. I like the idea of them being sportscars to the max. That being said, a return to GT1 style rules wouldn't upset me, or maybe just actual homologation rules for the current spec. I bet you'd have plenty of Saudi/Emirati upper crust in line to buy a roadgoing R18
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Dec 23, 2014 15:35
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BMB5150 posted:I just don't like the design is heading in P1 or P2. It just looks extremely complicated for the sake of looking extremely complicated and built in confined design lines like the goofy wedge front fenders. If you've seen Jalopnik's maybe leak of the GT-R LM, It's cool it's a front mid-engine car, but it looks really goofy looking and closer to the Panoz Esperante than a GT-R. That wasn't a leak, that was someone at Jalopnik reading Mike Fuller's post (http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov14.html) and then sketching something that they thought might be the car, while simultaneously not actually understand what Fuller wrote.
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Dec 23, 2014 15:51
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P1 is the only technically interesting class in endurance racing
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Dec 23, 2014 19:12
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drgitlin posted:That wasn't a leak, that was someone at Jalopnik reading Mike Fuller's post (http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov14.html) and then sketching something that they thought might be the car, while simultaneously not actually understand what Fuller wrote.  Why do both headlights point left? Is it supposed to go oval racing in the dark?
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Dec 23, 2014 20:25
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Xisticide posted:
Its what people like to call 'hosed perspective'
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Dec 23, 2014 20:42
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Or the daytona 24h.
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Dec 23, 2014 21:03
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lol Also Andretti probably joining PWC with Nissan backing, series expecting something like 35 GT cars next year. Andretti looking at joining lawmower racing. Andretti looking at joining ChumpCar. Andretti looking at joining your sons carpet Hot Wheels racing league. "I have a loving problem" - Andretti http://www.racer.com/pwc/item/111974-andretti-nissan-gt-r-program-gaining-momentum
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Dec 23, 2014 21:17
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Cygni posted:Andretti looking at joining lawmower racing. "Marco, go mow the lawn." "But daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad"
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Dec 23, 2014 21:22
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Cygni posted:lol Jesus. They're gonna have to start putting a field cap for PWC.
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Dec 24, 2014 00:04
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Cygni posted:lol Still shocked he hasn't attempted Cup yet. Bet money that he's waiting for Jarrett to move up and John will head up that operation.
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Dec 24, 2014 00:23
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I think he realises that Nascar, and indeed F1 could both cost enough to bring down the rest of the empire. In general he's expanding into lower (than Indycar) cost motorsport where he already has good backing. The GRC program for example, 2 good main sponsors and reasonably cost effective even before the effort VW is putting in for him.
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Dec 24, 2014 10:25
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Dudley posted:I think he realises that Nascar, and indeed F1 could both cost enough to bring down the rest of the empire. In general he's expanding into lower (than Indycar) cost motorsport where he already has good backing. The GRC program for example, 2 good main sponsors and reasonably cost effective even before the effort VW is putting in for him. I think if customer cars ever make a comeback in F1? We'll see an Andretti Autosports entry. But, correct, cost is too much. Still...what the guy is doing is incredible to say the least. Speaking of bad rear end ex-IndyCar drivers? Robby Gordon just posted this about Dakar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQWiIFVPBdU
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Dec 24, 2014 20:50
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FuzzySkinner posted:I think if customer cars ever make a comeback in F1? We'll see an Andretti Autosports entry. But, correct, cost is too much. Yeah there's the other thing about F1, even with a sponsor it's difficult because of the sheer infrastructure means you really need to make a multi year commitment. Nascar is kinda the same, you need multiple cars and types of cars to run a season and it requires a level of space and personnel that the other programs simply don't. He could partner of course. I'd like to see them try almost anything. Good, professional teams run by people who love racing for the purposes of going racing are more of a rarity than they should be. Indycar is actually kinda blessed with them, in that I don't think there's a team I wouldn't classify as that. Whereas in F1 you can only really count Williams, McLaren and Sauber in that genre.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:50
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McLaren not so much anymore. And i would love to see customer cars come back. Just make a rule that their positions don't count towards the WCC or make a seperate Teams Champonship and only have the top 2 cars from a single constructor count towards the WCC (So say Ferrari finishes 1st and 4th at a race and a team running a customer Ferrari places 3rd and 10th, only 1st and 3rd count towards the WCC)
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Dec 25, 2014 05:29
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Yeah, that's broadly what I've proposed a few times in various forms in this thread. That and if you turn up with a car you built you're guaranteed a starting spot even over faster customer cars. i.e - 20 manufacturer and 8 customer turn up, only 6 of the customers are starting regardless of speed. Although the people who DO start would still start in speed order. The whole thing can be boiled down to "Allow customers, protect manufacturers"
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Dec 26, 2014 00:09
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Customer cars are a great side effect of homologation, but I still think homologation itself is the easiest way to force both cost controls and customer car availability on unwilling manufacturers.
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Dec 26, 2014 03:19
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Well you're back talking about sportscar racing rather than F1 there and I totally agree.
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Dec 26, 2014 13:03
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It would be impossible to have homologation for F1, and honestly being the peak technological racing series, cost cutting (and to an extent, customer cars) shouldn't ever be a thing. Sports cars absolutely should use homologation and customer cars. Gentlemen drivers are usually the only reason why sports car sanctioning bodies, and the sports car manufacturers themselves who build high end sports cars for them, exist. Bring it back to the days when you could buy a street Ferrari, drive it to the track, prep it, beat the factory guys and drive home. Obviously no one would actually drive a proto on the street to get to the track, but the general idea should ring true.
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Dec 26, 2014 13:28
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F1 did have customer cars though, and until the early 80s it was not uncommon for privateers to use old chassis. None were very successful though... In addition to that, teams have used outside agencies (Lola, Dallara, Venturi) to build chassis for them, and some teams shared designs (Super Aguri, the final Ligiers).
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Dec 26, 2014 18:20
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Exactly, F1 NOT having customer cars is a recent thing, very recent if you define it as "Team didn't build the car" rather than "Another team built the car".
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Dec 26, 2014 20:49
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I don't think that should be banned or anything, but it's definitely not as crucial to the sport like it is in sports car racing.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:45
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Just wanted to remind everyone that Dakar starts this Saturday and it'll be great.
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Dec 30, 2014 16:36
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George Zimmer posted:Just wanted to remind everyone that Dakar starts this Saturday and it'll be great.  DAKAR PREVIEW Corney hype video from the corrupt french organizers! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZZ2mcltT0g Cars - Prolly my fav event of the year, but a reminder that the Minis are absolutely evil shitlords who ruined last years race and XRaid should die, so you should be rooting against them at every possible moment even though there is a hundred of them. No seriously, I think they are bringing like 11 of the loving things. Nani Roma is back in one, along with horrible human Nasser Al-Attiyah, but most of their good drivers have fled because... as noted... they are evil shitlords. There will be factory Peugeot's with a ridiculously good lineup (Peterhansel/Sainz/Cyril Depres in a car this time), but nobody knows how they will do. Toyota is back with some factory Hiluxes, but only Giniel de Villiers as a name driver. And of course, Robby will be there.  On bikes, Marc Coma will win unless he gets hurt. There are 168 bikes entered and of those like 60 are works programs or have works support... but nobody is going to beat Coma/KTM unless something goes horribly wrong. In trucks, its Kamaz vs Iveco again, with Kamaz still being mean angry russians and Iveco being cheating elitest lucky sperm club assholes. Basically root for Ales Loprais in a MAN cause his truck says MAN on it. Also this year, both trucks and cars will have marathon stages (overnight stops in the desert where drivers aren't allowed to work on their cars or have their support trucks around), and thats loving awesome. In the US, it will be on NBC Sports again with half hour daily highlights that are like 2 days behind. As always, if you have access to the hour long euro dailys via 'certain websites' they are generally of better quality and you can normally get them and watch them before the US version catches up. They also take the time to show the privateers and cover their stories which are way more interesting than the works programs anyway.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:30
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NBC Sports made a two part special on Robby's preparing for the Dakar if you're interested. Its really really long but a good thing to listen to at work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQWiIFVPBdU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2agiCfzLlo If youre wondering why you should root for Robby, just search 'robby gordon dakar crash' on youtube and scroll back through his hilarious history. I was gonna link em all here but seriously there are like a hundred.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:34
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The new peugeot 2008 got me some fizzy feelings. Looking forward to see it rolling around in the desert.
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Dec 30, 2014 22:13
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Have a random piece by Pete De Lorenzo on the state of American racing today. It's a pretty decent read. e- quote:They’d go to smaller engines, take the restrictors off, and remove about 30 rows of seats at every superspeedway they run on. That absurd nastiness called restrictor-plate racing has to stop, before somebody gets killed. 
Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 17:47
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It was a good read until he derailed into "goddamn kids" and Formula E bitching, then it turned into:
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Jan 3, 2015 20:40
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