Touhou Thread 6 - Fear and Loathing in Lunar Voyages by Hunter S. Clownpiece

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > VEGETA > Touhou Thread 6 - Fear and Loathing in Lunar Voyages by Hunter S. Clownpiece

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Justus: Apr 18, 2006; ...

Pinguliten posted:

What is really cool though is emulating the 1-6 games and play the midi through the synths, It's almost as playing 7 and on with WAVs.
I could record a few more if it is of any interest but then again there are good arrangements of the first games and to be honest the WAVs sounds better on 7-9.

I own an SC-8850 myself - believe it or not, one I bought back in 2001 when they were actually actively in production, in order to use for actual music production.

This is a super nerdy thing for me to just randomly know, but ZUN actually had an SC-88pro, the ancestor of the SC-8850 and the descendant of your SC-88, in the 90s when he was working on the PC-98 games. He released MIDIs back then that contain sysex instructions specific to the pro.

By the time EoSD came out though, he had switched to the newer "Studio Canvas" SD-90 to make his recorded soundtracks. He still makes all of Touhou's music exclusively with that one synthesizer and Steinburg's Cubase software to this day, he's just gotten incrementally better at employing little production tricks the synth is capable of, though he has yet to really dig deep with what it can do, oddly enough.

Anyways, the MIDI that came with EoSD through PoFV targets "general GS device" as its synthesizer of choice. GS is Roland's exclusive instruction set extension for the MIDI protocol, so basically this means it should sound pretty good on any Roland synthesizer (including their software based ones) and maybe later Yamaha synths containing GS compatibility

I will sometimes use the MIDI soundtrack for those games when I play, played through my SC-8850, just because it makes the music sound different, but still good, in order to change it up. It's nice to have an option for a subtle change after you've spent several dozen hours hearing the same thing. Sometimes the tracks are in a different key than the original. Sometimes the instrumentation is different, and sometimes there are different harmonization or homophonic elements compared to the WAV version, but it's usually a fairly subtle difference if you're playing it back on reference hardware like mine.

The SC-88 model in particular is actually a rather interesting piece of video game music history. It was used as a reference model for most video game soundtracks on the PC in the early 90s back when they only had MIDI music and no WAV soundtrack. This is the synth that e people creating the music used while composing it, and as such, is what most of those old MIDI soundtracks are "supposed to sound like". This includes pretty much every game by ID software, Apogee Games, Sierra, and even Blizzard. The CD soundtrack in Warcraft 2 was even just a recording of the MIDI version played through an SC-88!

Japanese game developers got into it later than the Americans did, as usual, so more people have actual heard the sound of it from Japanese games, since these used recordings, instead of MIDI files. The soundtracks for Megaman X4 - X6 all used an SC-88pro, as did everything Falcom made all the way through the mid-00s.

# ? Dec 30, 2014 18:01

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# ? May 9, 2024 23:14

AdorableStar: Jul 13, 2013

leather fedora posted:

Welp. When you got some more cash, just let me know.

Also, I'd like to make another book sometime, it's just a matter of finding the time to write it...

How much would you charge for this cd?

# ? Dec 30, 2014 21:38

Pinguliten: Jan 8, 2007

Justus posted:

I own an SC-8850 myself - believe it or not, one I bought back in 2001 when they were actually actively in production, in order to use for actual music production.

This is a super nerdy thing for me to just randomly know, but ZUN actually had an SC-88pro, the ancestor of the SC-8850 and the descendant of your SC-88, in the 90s when he was working on the PC-98 games. He released MIDIs back then that contain sysex instructions specific to the pro.

By the time EoSD came out though, he had switched to the newer "Studio Canvas" SD-90 to make his recorded soundtracks. He still makes all of Touhou's music exclusively with that one synthesizer and Steinburg's Cubase software to this day, he's just gotten incrementally better at employing little production tricks the synth is capable of, though he has yet to really dig deep with what it can do, oddly enough.

Anyways, the MIDI that came with EoSD through PoFV targets "general GS device" as its synthesizer of choice. GS is Roland's exclusive instruction set extension for the MIDI protocol, so basically this means it should sound pretty good on any Roland synthesizer (including their software based ones) and maybe later Yamaha synths containing GS compatibility

Neat, I actually thought he had both a 88pro and a 8850. I want to upgrade myself when I see a good deal on any of the synths and have some cash to spare. The problem is that a lot of the good Roland synths needs to be imported from Japan with the expensive freight and the chance of getting caught in customs but having a 88pro instead of a 88 and a 55mkII instead of a 55 would be really nice.

Justus posted:

I will sometimes use the MIDI soundtrack for those games when I play, played through my SC-8850, just because it makes the music sound different, but still good, in order to change it up. It's nice to have an option for a subtle change after you've spent several dozen hours hearing the same thing. Sometimes the tracks are in a different key than the original. Sometimes the instrumentation is different, and sometimes there are different harmonization or homophonic elements compared to the WAV version, but it's usually a fairly subtle difference if you're playing it back on reference hardware like mine.

The SC-88 model in particular is actually a rather interesting piece of video game music history. It was used as a reference model for most video game soundtracks on the PC in the early 90s back when they only had MIDI music and no WAV soundtrack. This is the synth that e people creating the music used while composing it, and as such, is what most of those old MIDI soundtracks are "supposed to sound like". This includes pretty much every game by ID software, Apogee Games, Sierra, and even Blizzard. The CD soundtrack in Warcraft 2 was even just a recording of the MIDI version played through an SC-88!

I got a stack to play stuff on but I still need more synth, a Yamaha XG capable synth among others as well.

External sysex patches can be a headache for the MT-32 since they're not always present where you can download the midis themselves.
Another problem with the old Japanese midi files is the mojibake thanks to the old and hated shift-jis screwing up titles.

Justus posted:

Japanese game developers got into it later than the Americans did, as usual, so more people have actual heard the sound of it from Japanese games, since these used recordings, instead of MIDI files. The soundtracks for Megaman X4 - X6 all used an SC-88pro, as did everything Falcom made all the way through the mid-00s.

I've actually noticed that Xenogears sounds the same on my SC-88 as in the game as well.

http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/html/music_old.html if you want those old midis, most are for the SC-88Pro but some are for the SC-8850 as well.
Also http://www.touhoumidi.altervista.org is a good visit.

# ? Dec 30, 2014 22:36

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

So is it time for Comiket 87 music impressions yet?

Fear of a Funky Planet is a hilarious name, but I just stuck with FELT, Shibayan Records, and good old Alstroameria. Nothing really stood out besides Shibayan's arrange of Night Sakura; Monochrome in the Night, I think?

There was a kancolle album but I don't even know if that game has good music. All the videos I've seen have just been voice actor overload.

Also I can only assume Sanbondo hired an army of ninjas to keep track of each and every person who bought the FMW3 OST. Guess I'm waiting till leather fedora ships mine over. :negative:

# ? Dec 31, 2014 01:14

leather fedora: Jun 27, 2004; The closest acceptable translation is
"die properly"

AdorableStar posted:

How much would you charge for this cd?

Given the current exchange rate, $10 USD shipped.

I bought a bunch of music as usual but I still haven't gotten around to listening stuff I bought from Comiket 84 (summer 2013)...

# ? Dec 31, 2014 03:18

Hokuto: Jul 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

Oh, crap. If I'd known you were buying for people, I would've sent you some money for an FMW3 OST CD. They eventually sell it online, right?

# ? Dec 31, 2014 04:05

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Yeah, it'll be up a week or two after C87.

# ? Dec 31, 2014 04:14

tupac holocron: Apr 23, 2008; The son of Maryam is about to descend amongst you as a correct ruler, he will break the cross and kill the pig!

amuayse posted:

Just curious, are there any characters based on non-Eastern mythological figures?

How about the fairies?

# ? Dec 31, 2014 06:07

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

The fairies really seem like they're based off of Kami thematically, since there's apparently a fairy for everything.

# ? Dec 31, 2014 06:22

Justus: Apr 18, 2006; ...

Pinguliten posted:

Neat, I actually thought he had both a 88pro and a 8850. I want to upgrade myself when I see a good deal on any of the synths and have some cash to spare. The problem is that a lot of the good Roland synths needs to be imported from Japan with the expensive freight and the chance of getting caught in customs but having a 88pro instead of a 88 and a 55mkII instead of a 55 would be really nice.

You might be right. I hadn't seen those MIDIs before. I know he was using SD-90 by EoSD though. You can tell by that crazy mariachi sounding trumpet he likes to use. That's a patch from the later Edirol "studio canvas"es, and isn't on the SC-8850.

Honestly, if you can get an 8850, or one of the variants (SC-8820, SC-D70) then you won't really have a need for older Sound Canvases anymore, since it has compatibility modes for SC-88pro, SC-88, and SC-55mkII that are spot on. Though if you're just using it to play MIDIs, you might have to doctor your MIDIs to make them play right.

quote:

I got a stack to play stuff on but I still need more synth, a Yamaha XG capable synth among others as well.

The best XG synth to get is the MU-128/1000/2000. Like later Sound Canvases, they contain the older sound sets, plus they use the same plugin expansion system the earlier Motifs use. I've got an MU-1000 myself with an expansion that can turn it into a DX-7, which adds utility for music production.

Of course if you really care about music production, you should probably be adding new types of synthesizers to your collection instead of focusing exclusively on 90s ROMplers. But of course, someone who owns an actual physical MT-32 is far more likely to care about Space Quest 4 sounding right than music production, I suppose.

Something else interesting to do, btw, is to use the MIDI out option to use a hardware synth with Story of Eastern Wonderland. It was the only one of the five PC98 Touhou games to support external MIDI music for some reason, and it can sound drastically different from the FM soundtrack in a lot of places. I put a video on YouTube years ago of one of my playthroughs using an SC-8850 for tones and an R-8 for drums here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FMahBcz0500

# ? Dec 31, 2014 06:27

HGH: Dec 20, 2011

Hokuto posted:

Could I see the image in question?

I believe it's this:

# ? Dec 31, 2014 10:14

Hokuto: Jul 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

HGH posted:

I believe it's this:

That is perfect, thank you.

# ? Dec 31, 2014 10:36

Not Dave: Aug 9, 2009; ATAI SUPER DRY IS
BREWED FROM QUALITY
ENGREDIENTS BY USING
OUR PURE CULTURE
YEAST AND ADVANCED
BREWING TECHNIQUES.

Hokuto posted:

That is perfect, thank you.

The first time I saw it was this

But when I was looking for Turn A art a while ago I saw some others including the above and

Other associations are easier guesses, between Lunarians and Yuyuko. Lily White was an enigma.

Coincidentally I have another "I don't know the association" question with a picture that has Gym, the Turn-X, Kamen Rider X, some other character I don't know, and Alice, but it'll take me a bit to hunt it down.

e: riddle me this one

Not Dave fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 31, 2014

# ? Dec 31, 2014 16:51

Decoy Badger: May 16, 2009

BlitzBlast posted:

Nothing really stood out besides Shibayan's arrange of Night Sakura; Monochrome in the Night, I think?

The crossfade for the new Shibayan release makes it all sound like boring nu-disco. Is it all like that or are there any more typical EDM-style tracks?

# ? Dec 31, 2014 17:04

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Uh they had some bossa nova albums I think?

Personally I like nu-disco, so Shibayan's good in my book. Most of their output is kind of eh, but they occasionally hit it out of the park. Phoenix is probably a favorite of mine, silly as gently caress the lyrics might be.

Though I am a person who still listens to Alstroemeria despite not really liking a single song since 2012 so maybe I am not the best judge.

EDIT: I think Retro Future Girls is supposed to be Shibayan's greatest hits, so try that and see how you like it.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Dec 31, 2014

# ? Dec 31, 2014 17:13

Hokuto: Jul 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

Not Dave posted:

Coincidentally I have another "I don't know the association" question with a picture that has Gym, the Turn-X, Kamen Rider X, some other character I don't know, and Alice, but it'll take me a bit to hunt it down.

e: riddle me this one

The other character is some random thing in the outfit of Ichiro Ogami from Sakura Wars, tugging Domon Kasshu's gloves. Also there's a pokeball motif on the Moonlight Butterfly wings.

I... I got nothing. I'm stumped.

Edit: Best guess so far is just a general SRW-style game cover image.

Hokuto fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Dec 31, 2014

# ? Dec 31, 2014 18:09

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

I think the joke is that they replaced PCB's crew? Turn X is Yuyuko and Gym is Lily (or maybe Youmu). Don't know enough about Kamen Rider or Sakura Wars to comment on them though.

Alternatively the dude just drew a picture of characters he liked.

# ? Dec 31, 2014 18:13

Hokuto: Jul 21, 2002; Soiled Meat

Oh that could make sense. Ogami uses a dual katana style so he could stand in for Youmu.

# ? Dec 31, 2014 18:14

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

FMW4 preview tracks are Murasa and Ichirin's themes. Not really a surprise, but still nice to hear.

And now to wait two more years. :negative:

# ? Jan 1, 2015 01:16

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

BlitzBlast posted:

FMW4 preview tracks are Murasa and Ichirin's themes. Not really a surprise, but still nice to hear.

And now to wait two more years.

There will probably be a demo out before then.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 01:39

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Ahahaha oh my god, Murasa's theme is based off loving Crossbone Gundam.

All in all there weren't as many extensions as FMW2's OST, but the higher quality really bumps the songs up. A couple songs have brand new instrumentation too, to the point Enter the Aluren and Heian Chimera Syndrome sound completely different.

Sadly Smoldering Ash is actually kind of annoying since it also loops, so it's like 10 minutes long. And no extensions. :smith:

EDIT: Either I'm blind as a bat or they changed the name in an earlier patch because Invasion of the Bewitching Spirits is actually Midnight Star Storm. :psyduck:

Having the song names in front of me instead of having to interpret from some squished kanji was a pretty good incentive to retranslate. I got most of the names right, surprisingly.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Jan 1, 2015

# ? Jan 1, 2015 01:57

leather fedora: Jun 27, 2004; The closest acceptable translation is
"die properly"

BlitzBlast posted:

I think Retro Future Girls is supposed to be Shibayan's greatest hits, so try that and see how you like it.

That's Disco Metric, which is more of a remix album.

And there is no such thing as "boring" nu-disco.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 04:54

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Hokuto posted:

Oh, crap. If I'd known you were buying for people, I would've sent you some money for an FMW3 OST CD. They eventually sell it online, right?

Same here

Any orchestral circles making an appearance at C87? I'd love to know if I need to watch out for Morrigan, Ryuuha Mikado or Tutti Sound.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 05:44

Space Flower: Sep 10, 2014; by Games Forum

leather fedora posted:

And there is no such thing as "boring" nu-disco.

I agree. Some say the new album is boring, but I feel like these are just the people who only ever liked Shibayan for the most brilliant 5% of his songs but didn't care for everything else.
I mourn the lack of Nagi, but it is still good 'ol Shibayan.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 09:23

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

CommissarMega posted:

Same here Any orchestral circles making an appearance at C87? I'd love to know if I need to watch out for Morrigan, Ryuuha Mikado or Tutti Sound.

Morrigan is employed as a composer for Gust now doing Ar Tonelico stuff, and isn't likely to be doing Touhou stuff for at least a very long time.

NEO contributed a couple songs to a KanColle album again, expressly not under the Tutti Sound name, so that's probably put on hold for either Reitaisai or C88.

Ryuuha Mikakutei hasn't made anything since 2012 as far as I can tell.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 09:29

amuayse: Jul 20, 2013; by exmarx

Wow, making Touhou MMDs is pretty fun.

# ? Jan 1, 2015 23:11

Gamma Nerd: May 14, 2012

I decided to come back from a shmup break to beat PoFV as all characters on Lunatic. It's been pretty easy up until Yuka.

Jesus Christ Yuka is slow, she gets matched against Reimu for ST6 and Aya for ST7, her attacks are super bad against the AI... this has taken me so many attempts just to get to Shiki with lives to spare. Is she considered to be the character with the hardest story mode? Because nothing much holds a candle to it, even Tewi only took a couple hours to get a clear with.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 06:51

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Yuuka probably has one of the easiest story modes. She's so slow that it's ridiculously easy to dodge bullets, and her shot has crazy range so she can blow up all the ghosts she activates with her huge scope at once. She has the second fastest Lily White kill if you shotgun, and her flowers also cause the AI to spazz out like crazy, so don't know what you're talking about there. For perspective, I have literally done No Focus runs on Extra with Yuuka because with her it's like you're focusing all the time.

Hardest story mode is probably Aya.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 06:56

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

BlitzBlast posted:

Yuuka probably has one of the easiest story modes. She's so slow that it's ridiculously easy to dodge bullets, and her shot has crazy range so she can blow up all the ghosts she activates with her huge scope at once. She has the second fastest Lily White kill if you shotgun, and her flowers also cause the AI to spazz out like crazy, so don't know what you're talking about there. For perspective, I have literally done No Focus runs on Extra with Yuuka because with her it's like you're focusing all the time.

Hardest story mode is probably Aya.

Some people have problems remembering PoFV is more like Twinkle Star Sprites than a Touhou, so they just blow up ghosts willy-nilly without even trying to chain them. Those type of people would loathe Yuuka, who at least requires that you actually have a halfway working knowledge of how the game plays.

Seconding that the hardest story mode is Crackhead McGee, though. drat tengu needs to slow her poo poo way down, okay? Even if her shot breaks the AI almost as bad as Medicine and Yuuka do.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 07:09

Gamma Nerd: May 14, 2012

I beat the game with Aya without dying. Everything went down in one minute. Didn't even take damage on the 7 and 8 bosses.

Yuka is too slow to misdirect poo poo, get out of the way of Eiki's hotdog walls, or dodge Reimu's yinyangs. Fast movement is almost always better for dodging in a shmup. Also she's poo poo at killing the AI, I've had ST6 Reimu survive past 3 minutes. I can get to Eiki with 4 lives if everything works out, since she's really good for scoring, but the Eiki fight is just terrifying. If you get hit once it totally throws off your rhythm of L2s, and you've pretty much lost the fight. And even 4th round Eiki makes you survive for 2:45. I can do that easily as someone with more maneuverability, Yuka is just useless in that regard.

Gamma Nerd fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Jan 5, 2015

# ? Jan 5, 2015 08:29

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Yuuka builds meter like crazy, is tied for fastest charge speed with Reimu and Tewi, isn't actually that slow (just don't focus, her normal movement speed is about equal to other character's focused speeds), and basically wipes the screen every time she fires off a L1. Sorry, but it sounds more like you don't know how to use her. :shrug:

Try suiciding against Eiki right away to drop the rank I guess?

EDIT: I totally forgot that the PoFV AI is poo poo at streaming though. Hardest is probably Mystia or Komachi, just because the AI doesn't even care about their gimmicks.

EDIT 2: If I'm remembering right, Cirno, Medicine, Tewi, Aya, and... I think Sakuya are better than others characters VS AI just because of how their gimmicks interact with the generic dodge behavior, while Lyrica, Merlin, Youmu, Mystia, Komachi, and Marisa are the opposite. Youmu has her absurd defense and Marisa her ridiculous offense to help tip things in their favor, but the other three are stuck up a creek.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jan 5, 2015

# ? Jan 5, 2015 08:41

amuayse: Jul 20, 2013; by exmarx

Will there be a sequel to PoFV?

# ? Jan 5, 2015 16:10

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

I would say "probably not", but it's up to ZUN's whims I guess. The fact that there hasn't been so far implies that he doesn't feel like it, but a lot people are invested in finding arbitrary patterns in the games and claim that we're due for another one, for whatever reason.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 21:47

Meat Beat Agent: Aug 5, 2007; felonious assault with a sproinging boner

Touhou 23 is going to be a PoFV sequel and Mima and Shinki are the secret bosses

# ? Jan 5, 2015 21:49

Gamerofthegame: Oct 28, 2010; Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

At this point the main thing keeping a PoFV game back is the amount of people that he'd probably want to be involved for a fanservice game like that.

That's a lot of art assets and balancing.

How much does Wild and Winged Hermit update, by the way? I ran through it after ignoring it for the four years it's been running and remain annoyed that ZUN keeps teasing the "Kasen is the repenting evil fourth deva-oni" this long. It's a fun read, though, still.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 22:30

Clarste: Apr 15, 2013; Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.

Gamerofthegame posted:

How much does Wild and Winged Hermit update, by the way? I ran through it after ignoring it for the four years it's been running and remain annoyed that ZUN keeps teasing the "Kasen is the repenting evil fourth deva-oni" this long. It's a fun read, though, still.

A new chapter is published every two months.

# ? Jan 5, 2015 23:59