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lifts cats over head posted:HBO is running promos previewing next year's program line up and it includes some very brief clips of next season. I can see someone watching that and being 100% sure that Tyrion is going to the Wall. Lycus fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 06:28
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Bonesnap posted:I don't believe either of these situations will happen, but to say it completely ruins the dynamic between Tywin and his kids is dumb, if anything it adds more depth and dramatic irony to the situation. In one situation Tywin has to cope with his two beautiful children being unrelated to him while he only managed to produce a disfigured dwarf. In the other situation his two real children are nothing like him and can't inherit, while the child who actually takes after him and can inherit isn't actually his. Both of these situations go a lot further in explaining why Tywin was such a dick than "people made fun of his dad". We've also been told multiple times that Aerys was into Joanna and I believe World of Ice and Fire confirmed they had an affair to some extent. This also makes it more clear just why Tywin hated the Targaryen king so much. If he believes Tyrion is Aerys' son then Aerys essentially killed Tywin's beloved wife. I'm not sure how we would find out "what really happened" one way or the other. But the fact that some characters believe it is pretty important to the plot after all.
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Dec 22, 2014 09:43
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pidan posted:I'm not sure how we would find out "what really happened" one way or the other. Weirwood trees make all possible now. I'm sure Joanna told Aerys she was keeping the baby, but that Tywin must never know the truth in a Godswood or something.
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Dec 22, 2014 11:03
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computer parts posted:Tyrion being a bastard ruins all of his characterization with Tywin. No it doesn't. This is one of the most oft-repeated and dumb assertions in this thread. It doesn't "ruin" it, it just changes it. The most maddening aspect is that people keep asserting it as fact. It isn't.
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Dec 22, 2014 17:21
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Unzip and Attack posted:No it doesn't. This is one of the most oft-repeated and dumb assertions in this thread. It doesn't "ruin" it, it just changes it. The most maddening aspect is that people keep asserting it as fact. It isn't. "Oh hey, you know that son you treated as garbage because he was figuratively a bastard? Guess what!"
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Dec 22, 2014 17:55
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Man it's almost like Tywin being unsure of Tyrion's parentage actually explains why he's such an evil rear end in a top hat to him his whole life. The uncertainty of it almost, you know, explains why Tywin went from being a chill person in his youth to being a psychopath obsessed with his personal reputation. Edit: I'm not trying to say you're objectively wrong here - it's a matter of taste/interpretation. I think it could go either way, but seeing people parrot this point over and over as if it's indisputable gets old. Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 18:02
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computer parts posted:"Oh hey, you know that son you treated as garbage because he was figuratively a bastard? Guess what!" I was making a post exactly along these lines, fake quote and everything. It would really be a completely superfluous addition to the story that makes the entire dynamic between these two major characters from a somewhat realistic exploration of a dysfunctional father-son relationship in a feudal setting into something more befitting a soap opera. Like half the tension in that relationship stems from Tyrion being the perfect heir who gets the short end of the stick due to his father not being able to see past his superficial flaws. Sure it doesn't 'ruin' it in the sense that if neither of them know about it Tyrion's bastard-parentage their relationship stays the same but at that point it still somewhat cheapens everything to the reader and adds nothing of value to the story. Unzip and Attack posted:Man it's almost like Tywin being unsure of Tyrion's parentage actually explains why he's such an evil rear end in a top hat to him his whole life. The uncertainty of it almost, you know, explains why Tywin went from being a chill person in his youth to being a psychopath obsessed with his personal reputation. When was Tywin chill? Did you miss his stone-cold-badass speech when Genna got engaged to Emmon Frey? His borderline sociopathic treatment of his father's mistress the moment his father died? His complete annihilation of the Tarbecks and the Reynes? All of this poo poo happened long before Tyrion was born, we only hear about Tywin being relatively chill in the context of Joanna mellowing him out somewhat and him being genuinely in love with her, he was always cold, calculating and ruthless. emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 22, 2014 |
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Dec 22, 2014 18:07
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emanresu tnuocca posted:When was Tywin chill? Did you miss his stone-cold-badass speech when Genna got engaged to Emmon Frey? His borderline sociopathic treatment of his father's mistress the moment his father died? His complete annihilation of the Tarbecks and the Reynes? All of this poo poo happened long before Tyrion was born, we only hear about Tywin being relatively chill in the context of Joanna mellowing him out somewhat and him being genuinely in love with her, he was always cold, calculating and ruthless. From my recollection, one of the female Lannisters tells Jaime that Tywin changed after Joanna died, and that he was never the same or something along those lines. I've always thought it is interesting to suppose that Tywin really did love Joanna but also did suspect that Tyrion wasn't his. This works best if Tywin doesn't know for sure, because if Tyrion really is his then he's the last piece of Joanna he has left, but the doubt makes him lash out and inflict his own pain on Tyrion, as he does. If Tywin knew for a fact Tyrion was a bastard he'd have found a way to kill him quietly long ago. It's the uncertainty that gnaws at Tywin, the persistent inner battle between his love for his lost wife and his hatred for what might be true and Tyrion as a living embodiment of it. Again I don't think this is an airtight theory. It could just as easily be all wrong and Tywin could be certain that Tyrion is his and just hates him for "killing" Joanna and being such a gently caress up. I like both interpretations. My favorite interpretation is actually that Tyrion is Tywin's but that he's always suspected otherwise. To me, that explains Tywin's behavior so much better than him just being a prick.
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Dec 22, 2014 18:18
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That was Genna, actually in the same chapter where she tells Jaime about how Tywin was opposed to her marriage to Emmon Frey, she's kind of the only female lannister in the novels other than Cersei. That's a bit of a book nerd sperg, sorry. Anyway, yeah, she does say he changed, and no doubt Joanna's death always cast a huge shadow over his and Tyrion's relationship (also, Cersei and Tyrion's relationship) but this doesn't require the alleged bastardy to make sense, Joanna was adored by Tywin and Cersei and the fact that she died while giving birth to a freak is reason enough for them to show disdain towards Tyrion, heck Cersei flat out accuses Tyrion of killing her mother (was this bit show only? not sure). I mean, there are really plenty of explanations to all of these things in the books as they stand. And Tywin was a dick but he wasn't "just a dick", we're offered many insights into what makes him tick, we also learn that he was a huge hypocrite and a whoremonger not unlike Tyrion, for him appearances were super important, he always wanted people to look at him and his family as flawless beings, and everything went exactly according to his plans until the day Tyrion was born, Tyrion is a constant reminder that Tywin is a flawed being, it's a constant source of mockery and scorn from other nobles. I'm sperging out a bit I know but I really can't see what this possible twist adds to the story that isn't already plainly there.
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Dec 22, 2014 18:33
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emanresu tnuocca posted:I really can't see what this possible twist adds to the story that isn't already plainly there. Wish fulfillment by proxy. Our beloved Tyrion gets to get out from under the thumbs of his terrible family and become a dragon-riding king of the world. It's like Annie, if Daddy Warbucks breathed fire.
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Dec 22, 2014 18:54
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rydiafan posted:Wish fulfillment by proxy. Our beloved Tyrion gets to get out from under the thumbs of his terrible family and become a dragon-riding king of the world. It's like Annie, if Daddy Warbucks breathed fire. Great. Now I want a Peter Dinklage led Annie remake. Don't change anything else. Also Annie is still a little girl.
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Dec 22, 2014 19:42
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"Promise me..." - Joanna on her deathbed to Tywin.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:00
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emanresu tnuocca posted:everything went exactly according to his plans until the day Tyrion was born Didn't Tywin leave King's Landing under unknown circumstances back before the rebellion? He was Hand and then one day he straight up left and went home. There is a lot to suggest that the relationship between Aerys and Tywin soured very quickly and the only reason we're given is that Aerys allowed Jaime to become KG. Doesn't really add up to me. Again not saying Tyrion is a secret Targ because of this, but Tywin suspecting really answers this question.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:39
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Unzip and Attack posted:Didn't Tywin leave King's Landing under unknown circumstances back before the rebellion? He was Hand and then one day he straight up left and went home. There is a lot to suggest that the relationship between Aerys and Tywin soured very quickly and the only reason we're given is that Aerys allowed Jaime to become KG. Doesn't really add up to me. Again not saying Tyrion is a secret Targ because of this, but Tywin suspecting really answers this question. Not entirely sure, but I think that one had to do with Aerys refusing Tywin's offer of marrying Cersei to Rhaegar.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:45
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Unzip and Attack posted:Didn't Tywin leave King's Landing under unknown circumstances back before the rebellion? He was Hand and then one day he straight up left and went home. There is a lot to suggest that the relationship between Aerys and Tywin soured very quickly and the only reason we're given is that Aerys allowed Jaime to become KG. Doesn't really add up to me. Again not saying Tyrion is a secret Targ because of this, but Tywin suspecting really answers this question. Tywin resigns after Aerys makes Jaime a kingsguard at the tourney of Harrenhal, Tyrion was already 6 or 7 at the time.
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Dec 22, 2014 20:46
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I'm not someone who buys into the Tyrion=secret Targ stuff, but I am someone who likes discussing lineage and inheritance. If Tyrion is in fact a Targ, wouldn't that make him the rightful heir? He would have been the second son of the Mad King and since Jon "The secret targ that was promised" Snow was born after Rhaegar died the throne would have passed to Tyrion. If this were true than Tyrion would have, in a way, actually inherited Casterly Rock.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:01
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Tywin resigns after Aerys makes Jaime a kingsguard at the tourney of Harrenhal, Tyrion was already 6 or 7 at the time. Thanks for the clarification on this. That really does put a big hole in that theory then!
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Dec 22, 2014 21:06
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lifts cats over head posted:I'm not someone who buys into the Tyrion=secret Targ stuff, but I am someone who likes discussing lineage and inheritance. If Tyrion is in fact a Targ, wouldn't that make him the rightful heir? He would have been the second son of the Mad King and since Jon "The secret targ that was promised" Snow was born after Rhaegar died the throne would have passed to Tyrion. If this were true than Tyrion would have, in a way, actually inherited Casterly Rock. Bastards have no rightful claim as seen with them Blackfyre boys.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:45
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ruddiger posted:Bastards have no rightful claim as seen with them Blackfyre boys. True. I forgot about that little snag.
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Dec 22, 2014 21:51
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That Targ King who legitimized all of his bastards in his will was the ultimate troll. Also a stand in for King Henry VIII iirc from reading TWoIaF
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Dec 22, 2014 22:05
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lifts cats over head posted:I'm not someone who buys into the Tyrion=secret Targ stuff, but I am someone who likes discussing lineage and inheritance. If Tyrion is in fact a Targ, wouldn't that make him the rightful heir? He would have been the second son of the Mad King and since Jon "The secret targ that was promised" Snow was born after Rhaegar died the throne would have passed to Tyrion. If this were true than Tyrion would have, in a way, actually inherited Casterly Rock. (Assuming both Jon and Tyrion are somehow legitimate and everyone has perfect knowledge of the birthrights in this hypothetical scenario) Jon's claim would still beat Tyrion's. Rhaegar dying prematurely doesn't affect primogeniture, so his sons still take precedence over his younger brothers. There is a brief window between Aerys' death and Jon's birth where the throne would be empty, so I think Tyrion would hold the throne as prince regent (again, assuming full legitimacy and going strictly by inheritence), which would probably persist for a decade or two since Jon would still be a baby, but Jon would still be king.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:01
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While we're on the subject Aegon's claim is better than Dany's.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:52
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TOOT BOOT posted:While we're on the subject Aegon's claim is better than Dany's. Except for the fact that no one can verify that Aegon is who he says he is, except for Varys. And no one trusts Varys.
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Dec 22, 2014 23:55
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Dany's claim is better because *dragons*. If those didn't exist I'd say her claim and Aegon's claim are about the same, in that the Lannisters would laugh them both out of the throne room.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:04
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Well, except for the part of having no actual control over the dragons.
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Dec 23, 2014 00:05
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Fans of Hafthor Bjornsson: he's in Heat 2 of World's Strongest Man 2014, which aired tonight in the UK. No spoilers, but the absence of the Skull Crush event from this year's competition may have harmed his chances.
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Dec 28, 2014 20:16
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Lycus posted:Well, except for the part of having no actual control over the dragons. Oh man, just imagine if Dany and Aegon come face to face and all of her dragons just decide to gently caress off over to his camp and follow his every whim.
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Dec 29, 2014 19:52
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Dec 31, 2014 05:40
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Is daenerys wearing a vest or are those just really saggy titties?
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Dec 31, 2014 05:57
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drat, did that toy spoil the series for me? Is Dany secretly a white walker? 
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Dec 31, 2014 07:14
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Well, the hair's right. Seems legit to me.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:40
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The toys are spoiling the show that's the spoiling the books!
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Dec 31, 2014 14:49
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I see Hulk Hogan is up to his old tricks again.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:12
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Steve2911 posted:Oh man, just imagine if Dany and Aegon come face to face and all of her dragons just decide to gently caress off over to his camp and follow his every whim.
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Dec 31, 2014 15:16
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meristem posted:I really hope that Aegon will die of a slit throat within 5 minutes of reading/watching when we next see him. Talk about a useless, jump-the-shark character. Re-reading the series now and Aegon was planned from the start. Varys and Illyrio's scheming in book 1 only makes sense with the addition of Aegon as the trump card.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:38
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Unzip and Attack posted:Re-reading the series now and Aegon was planned from the start. Varys and Illyrio's scheming in book 1 only makes sense with the addition of Aegon as the trump card. Yeah I'm also finding his inclusion far more logical in my re-read. Whatever part he plays will be integral, though probably nowhere near as direct as he'd have you believe.
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Dec 31, 2014 18:49
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The new character that Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is going to play is not going to be a Moqorro merger.quote:According to our sources, Adewale will be playing a slaver working on the continent of Essos. His character Malko runs a slave auction, and is presenting Jorah Mormont and Tyrion Lannister for sale. That character was the last shred of hope some people were clinging on to that we'd get Greyjoys.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:15
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You'd think that there never being one speck of news about Victarion or Euron being cast would be more than enough to give that up.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:23
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As awesome as Euron and Victarion could have been on screen, you can see why they'd be the first thing to be cut from such a plot-dense series. You just know that their screentime will be replaced with two episodes of Brienne making a trip to Bravos and almost seeing Arya but missing her and then coming back, or some poo poo like that, though. 
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Dec 31, 2014 22:29
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MrBims posted:The new character that Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is going to play is not going to be a Moqorro merger. What then is the point of having the Greyjoys on the show? I realize that the show has made them considerably less badass than in the books. And I know they sort of provide cover for the Boltons burning down winterfell. And sure, Theon, but those are slim pickings for the addition of a whole family in a show which is already so packed with characters.
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Dec 31, 2014 22:46
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