|
All those terms could also be the standard offer each side gives so they don't start a negotiation from a weak position. It could be entirely normal. We'd need similar context from other negotiations.
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 10:42 |
|
|
The fact that they're trying to wring concessions out of this poo poo is hilarious as hell and shows they're loving children. It really doesn't matter what they approach the table with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Lemming posted:All those terms could also be the standard offer each side gives so they don't start a negotiation from a weak position. It could be entirely normal. We'd need similar context from other negotiations. The fact that they haven't had a contract in over 4 years really isn't helping matters.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 22:45
|
|
|
Kitfox88 posted:The fact that they're trying to wring concessions out of this poo poo is hilarious as hell and shows they're loving children. It really doesn't matter what they approach the table with.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 22:53
|
|
|
It's really loving weird that they're basically half-assing their jobs in protest. In government, any organization actively demonstrating that they aren't essential is suicidal. Similarly, belts can only be tightened. Suppose I can pave a road with eight workers, but the job routinely takes a dozen. I'm probably not getting twelve workers for the next road I pave. Actively showing NYC that it can make do with sandbagging cops only suggests that NYC has too many cops when they are trying.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
moths posted:It's really loving weird that they're basically half-assing their jobs in protest. In government, any organization actively demonstrating that they aren't essential is suicidal. There's been some speculation that this isn't targeted at generating citizen pressure on the mayor's office (i.e., people saying "Oh God, where are the police?") but much more direct pressure by basically narrowing revenue streams.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
moths posted:It's really loving weird that they're basically half-assing their jobs in protest. In government, any organization actively demonstrating that they aren't essential is suicidal. I wonder if any of them will be out tonight in plainclothes trying to make their jobs look a little more essential.
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 23:03
|
|
|
moths posted:It's really loving weird that they're basically half-assing their jobs in protest. In government, any organization actively demonstrating that they aren't essential is suicidal. They're doing their jobs for the most visible parts, but they're cutting off revenues that the City will need so they can put the screws in the Mayors office in the place where it really counts. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 23:04
|
|
|
ayn rand hand job posted:They're doing their jobs for the most visible parts, but they're cutting off revenues that the City will need so they can put the screws in the Mayors office in the place where it really counts. Making revenue gain through law enforcement part of their budget was a mistake in the first place. Clearly you can save the money they brought in by reducing the police force and I hope it's very much on the table for the mayor. Can the union resist terminations that are done as cost reducing measures?
|
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 23:16
|
|
|
It seems like the revenue crunch has potential to backfire unless each cop is averaging $90k in fines annually. Plus all the increases they're asking for. From a budget standpoint, it might just be better to let them go anyway. E: clarity moths fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Dec 31, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I wonder if any of them will be out tonight in plainclothes trying to make their jobs look a little more essential. i'm going to an illegal rave in soho, i'll report back in the morning
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:There's been some speculation that this isn't targeted at generating citizen pressure on the mayor's office (i.e., people saying "Oh God, where are the police?") but much more direct pressure by basically narrowing revenue streams.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 00:23
|
|
|
So basically they're going on strike but still collecting their paychecks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
Bet the people of NYC are liking not having to worry about traffic tickets.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 00:37
|
|
|
if anything, the police presence going down has put me more at ease than i've been lately. not having to ride through the still roadblocked scene of that shooting on my way home from work and getting lovely looks from cops with ar-15's outside of the 79th precinct two blocks from my apartment has increased my quality of life for sure. i've lived in several cities and have had several encounters with police in all of them, but the NYPD are head and shoulders above SFPD and PPD in terms of tough-guy lovely bully attitudes and us vs. them mentality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 01:12
|
|
|
That's an understandable sentiment. I'd be extremely ill-at-ease if people who lose their poo poo when you raise your hands in mock protest were carrying guns around me. More-so if I knew they could kill me with virtually no consequence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 01:16
|
|
|
also, their attitude totally contrasts with the fact that new york is the safest city i've lived in ever. it's honestly like they believe they're all in taxi driver/warriors era new york but without the corresponding crime they have nothing to do but act like hardened beat cop toughguys to kids walking to the deli to buy candy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 01:20
|
|
|
Your Weird Uncle posted:also, their attitude totally contrasts with the fact that new york is the safest city i've lived in ever. it's honestly like they believe they're all in taxi driver/warriors era new york but without the corresponding crime they have nothing to do but act like hardened beat cop toughguys to kids walking to the deli to buy candy. When people stop being criminals and your revenue streams dry up you gotta make criminals some how. Remember there's an entire prison system at stake, not just municipal budgets!
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 02:59
|
|
|
Someone needs to do a study and determine if there would any significant damage to the economy if crimes stopped occurring.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 07:34
|
|
|
Supply side justice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 07:51
|
|
|
Misogynist posted:Is this a good time to bring up how much more likely Americans are to be killed domestically by police officers than terrorists? Well, even in states with active revolutionaries (i.e., Colombia) you're more likely to get killed by police.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 07:58
|
|
|
Happy New Year! Yeah, I know it wasn't on the thirty-first
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 12:00
|
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:NYPD isn't striking though. Refusing to do your job until demands are met is striking as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:Refusing to do your job until demands are met is striking as far as I'm concerned. I don't know, getting paid to not do your job sounds pretty awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 15:20
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:Refusing to do your job until demands are met is striking as far as I'm concerned. That's interesting, normally you seem really into the legal definition of things.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 15:20
|
|
|
Evil Sagan posted:Someone needs to do a study and determine if there would any significant damage to the economy if crimes stopped occurring. So we need a recognized thieves guild?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 15:31
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:There's been some speculation that this isn't targeted at generating citizen pressure on the mayor's office (i.e., people saying "Oh God, where are the police?") but much more direct pressure by basically narrowing revenue streams. Any trend away from viewing criminal (or pseudo-criminal civil violation) sanctions as a revenue stream, I would view as a good thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 15:49
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:That's interesting, normally you seem really into the legal definition of things. It's called a slowdown. It's a form of illegal strike.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:It's called a slowdown. It's a form of illegal strike. I wonder if de Blasio will actually push to enforce the Taylor Law against the slowdown.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 17:47
|
|
|
ThirdPartyView posted:I wonder if de Blasio will actually push to enforce the Taylor Law against the slowdown. He should. You're a public servant. You don't get to just stop doing your job. I understand why the mayor's words angered them but they are acting worse than my toddler when I tell her it's nap time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 17:50
|
|
|
Oh, and agreed that law enforcement as a revenue stream is lovely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 17:52
|
|
|
ThirdPartyView posted:I wonder if de Blasio will actually push to enforce the Taylor Law against the slowdown. I'm honestly curious how he'd do this though since the people normally called in for this sort of job are the ones doing their best to get paid while on strike. Call in the national guard for police-union busting like we're in the worst days of industrialization? Be an interesting scene and one I'd be laughing my rear end off about since by all accounts the NYPD deserve to have their egos bruised. Of course what I'm really hoping for is for is the non-violent result where the NYPD look like giant, collective fools when the entire city realizes this whole minimal policing thing is rather nice and has made the city a nicer, safer place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:02
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:He should. You're a public servant. You don't get to just stop doing your job. I understand why the mayor's words angered them but they are acting worse than my toddler when I tell her it's nap time. I understand why the mayor's words angered them and the reason they think they have to be angry is part of the problem, not in any way a justification for their behaviour.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Orange Devil posted:I understand why the mayor's words angered them and the reason they think they have to be angry is part of the problem, not in any way a justification for their behaviour. Right. Appropriate response: "we of the NYPD recognize that racial relations in America are a complex issue that warrants continued vigilance and our role as protectors of the community is greatly diminished when the communities we serve see us as oppressors, not guardians. The mayor's words sadden us, as they send a message that we feel is both an inaccurate portrayal of our organization, and further divides a community that we wish to see united. We will however, continue to protect and serve, and hope the mayor will refrain from such comments in the future." Inappropriate response: pretty much everything they are doing. They needed to take the high road on this. They failed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:26
|
|
|
ActusRhesus posted:Inappropriate response: pretty much everything they are doing. Why would they take the high road? What in their history gives even the hint that they are capable of it, or that they are anything other than a private army unaccountable to anything or anyone?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:32
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Why would they take the high road? What in their history gives even the hint that they are capable of it, or that they are anything other than a private army unaccountable to anything or anyone? The commissioner de Blasio hired significantly improved community relations in the LAPD. One would hope that would translate into his new job, but apparently the LAPD union wasn't balls out insane.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
BTW, since it's been brought up, what actually happens when the police mutiny against the local government? I mean, I absolutely don't expect something like that to happen, the NYPD are not that stupid, but what happens if local cops try to arrest an elected official on charges that they clearly made up or pull some sort of local coup d'etat? What is the next step in cases like that?
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
AVeryLargeRadish posted:BTW, since it's been brought up, what actually happens when the police mutiny against the local government? I mean, I absolutely don't expect something like that to happen, the NYPD are not that stupid, but what happens if local cops try to arrest an elected official on charges that they clearly made up or pull some sort of local coup d'etat? What is the next step in cases like that? National Guard I'm pretty sure. I mean, it might be delayed over negotiations and people trying to wrap their heads over how bonkers the situation's gotten that the police are arresting their legitimately elected public officials for "not giving us a raise". But when poo poo gets that bad it's more or less the tradition to send the National Guard in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:48
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:National Guard I'm pretty sure. I mean, it might be delayed over negotiations and people trying to wrap their heads over how bonkers the situation's gotten that the police are arresting their legitimately elected public officials for "not giving us a raise". But when poo poo gets that bad it's more or less the tradition to send the National Guard in. Isn't that
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 10:42 |
|
|
ComradeCosmobot posted:Isn't that There's a point where the system has to (hopefully) stamp down on the insanity lest the entire machine starts falling apart. I'm pretty sure that in Radish's hypothetical situation is past that point by a wide margin. Basically, ask yourself: what (not tea party/nutjob) elected official wants to create the precedent where it's totally okay for the police to extra-legally declare any elected official's office and term is null and void because "we don't like you"? After all, if they can oust the mayor of one of the nation's most powerful cities, why can't they eventually do it to officials at a county, state, or even federal level? That presidential seat doesn't look so secure when you've just said that in the future the D.C. police can stage a raid on the White House, kidnap the president and say "Nuh-Uh, we don't like this guy. Elect/appoint a new one who gives us more kick-backs." That's the kind of precedent Cuomo would risk creating in the public eye/tradition. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2015 18:57
|
|