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Matthias Karlsson crying his eyes out at DN.se http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/mattias-karlsson-sd-rena-bondfangeriet-av-alliansen/ This is from their editorial of the same day http://www.dn.se/ledare/huvudledare/borgerlig-vrede-utan-nyans/ quote:... Många tycks ha glömt varför denna situation har uppstått. Oavsett vilken konstellation som hade vunnit regeringsmakten vid ett nytt val, har Mattias Karlsson (SD) hotat med att partiet avser fälla samtliga budgetar som inte sverigedemokratiserats. (Komiskt, kan tyckas, med tanke på att dessa 12,9 procents höga maktanspråk nu lett till att Karlsson gråter krokodiltårar över att minoriteter får för stort inflytande med nya ordningen.) I don't really like DN but sometimes they know just how to snipe at politicians haha. English translation is my own. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 08:53
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Pick your favorite http://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik/Aktuell-statistik.html Did you know that (2014)...
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Dec 30, 2014 09:14
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Rappaport posted:No, but obviously I worded my last post poorly and I can see why you'd think that. There's problems, though, and it isn't exactly the fault of the incoming folks. Postorder Trollet89 posted:English translation is my own.
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Dec 30, 2014 09:23
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A Buttery Pastry posted:
I blame America but edited it none the less for your viewing pleasure. Besides, when it comes to translating DN use words that would be translated to Swedendemocratified for example which reads stupid to me so you gotta pick your battles. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 09:36
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Rappaport posted:No, but obviously I worded my last post poorly and I can see why you'd think that. There's problems, though, and it isn't exactly the fault of the incoming folks. I was kind of tired when I read your post, and some of the wording made me think you tried to justify the 'lesser human' type of thinking with statistics of how many of a certain nation are able to provide for X others. I think the first sentence was what made me start thinking that, which may have some basis in how SD tends to misrepresent statistics. But yeah, there are problems. A lot of them seem to depend on how successful integration is. Another problem is that the more people are racist and discriminating against people from certain nationalities, the less motivation they may have to actually integrate into society. My mom is currently working with getting immigrant and refugee kids smoothly into our schools (as a teacher), so it's a topic that I personally feel is important. A large problem for some are that the parents of those kids sometimes impede what we would see as progress, usually depending on how hard-headed and set in their ways those parents are. I'm really hoping a lot of research goes into how to make integration as smooth as possible. Postorder Trollet89 posted:I blame America but edited it none the less for your viewing pleasure. The way we use composite words lead to ridiculously silly translations. OldManMarsh fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 09:50
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So is the Swedish electorate going insane thanks to the surges in popularity for that racist flower group?
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Dec 30, 2014 09:55
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Grouchio posted:So is the Swedish electorate going insane thanks to the surges in popularity for that racist flower group? The swedish electorate is going insane because there's a Jönssonligan reboot coming out in 2 weeks with one of the main roles being portrayed by a non-white actor. To answer your question, not really. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 10:19
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Xoidanor posted:The swedish electorate is going insane because there's a Jönssonligan reboot coming out in 2 weeks with one of the main roles being portrayed by a non-white actor. It's Dynamit-Harry
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Dec 30, 2014 10:24
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Groda posted:It's Dynamit-Harry 
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Dec 30, 2014 10:44
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Always remember, if you really want to see what happens when Nationalist parties win elections, go have a look at Hungary, that's what happens when parties like SD, DF and True Finns win. The country goes to poo poo, because they have no clue what to do with actual direct power.
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Dec 30, 2014 11:24
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Amperod posted:Ahaha. Nyrup had Karen "Ship them all to a deserted island!" Jespersen in his cabinet and he instituted the greatest limitation to family reunification in history (tilknytningskravet) in 2000. Also, what he said was "In my mind you'll never be housebroken" and the response from the right was to start figuratively making GBS threads on every surface in the house, there's a significant difference there. The largest leaps in support for the Danish People's Party happened not just after the Liberals and Conservatives opened the door for them by giving them free reign over immigration policy for ten years, but after every other party but the Unity List and Social Liberals officially adopted their policies and rhetoric—so please explain that, or stop espousing historical revisionism.
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Dec 30, 2014 13:09
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Neeksy posted:Oh man it's the "you guys just can't handle these truth bombs I'm laying down" tactic. The what tactic? What the hell. Most of what I've been saying is: maybe Swedish politics should accept SD exists and work with them, since there may be some issues hundreds of thousands of Swedes find important enough to still vote a party that is so utterly vilified from all directions, and that this thing is certainly not going to just vanish by ignoring it. That is THE argument I'm trying to make. You really think that's indefensible? When saying that causes such incessant screaming and paroxysms of rage, accompanied by demands that I have to immediately stop saying such horrible things and go away, it truly is an amazing thing to behold! Oh man you Swedes. RagnarokZ posted:Always remember, if you really want to see what happens when Nationalist parties win elections, go have a look at Hungary, that's what happens when parties like SD, DF and True Finns win. Except that True Finns already had a huge win, and like I said, nothing much happened. The country certainly is in recession, but that has much more to do with the coalition that was formed to prevent TF from affecting decisions regarding EU being so quarrelsome they can't get anything done. Not that it's really the job of politics to handle the economy. If you can't tell the difference even between TF and SD, never mind Jobbik (or Golden Dawn or the 30s Nazi party for that matter) you are too far gone and cannot be saved.
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Dec 30, 2014 13:21
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Ligur posted:If you can't tell the difference even between TF and SD, never mind Jobbik (or Golden Dawn or the 30s Nazi party for that matter) you are too far gone and cannot be saved. He's talking about Fidesz.
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Dec 30, 2014 13:22
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Groda posted:He's talking about Fidesz. Hungary is poo poo now because of Fidesz? Cool.
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Dec 30, 2014 13:24
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SplitSoul posted:Nyrup had Karen "Ship them all to a deserted island!" Jespersen in his cabinet and he instituted the greatest limitation to family reunification in history (tilknytningskravet) in 2000. Also, what he said was "In my mind you'll never be housebroken" and the response from the right was to start figuratively making GBS threads on every surface in the house, there's a significant difference there. The largest leaps in support for the Danish People's Party happened not just after the Liberals and Conservatives opened the door for them by giving them free reign over immigration policy for ten years, but after every other party but the Unity List and Social Liberals officially adopted their policies and rhetoric—so please explain that, or stop espousing historical revisionism. Thank you SplitSoul. I had forgotten about Karen Jespersen lovely quote. Well it was more about DF and the way it has gotten 12-13% of the voting public. If it goes like it did in Denmark, SD should have a split in 5 years where you leave the village idiots in the old party. But what do i know 
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Dec 30, 2014 15:16
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Groda posted:It's Dynamit-Harry Really, I thought it was  ?
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Dec 30, 2014 15:26
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Ligur posted:The what tactic? What the hell. Most of what I've been saying is: maybe Swedish politics should accept SD exists and work with them, since there may be some issues hundreds of thousands of Swedes find important enough to still vote a party that is so utterly vilified from all directions, and that this thing is certainly not going to just vanish by ignoring it. You frequently accuse people in this thread of thinking every SD voter is a balls to the wall nazi. Which nobody does. That is a strawman tactic and you use it a lot, actually! You have also on multiple occasions called immigrants and muslims "undesirables" and "undesirable elements" which is indefensible. Also why everyone thinks you're a shithead. Stop being a shithead. Clear enough for you?
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Dec 30, 2014 15:58
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Ligur posted:The what tactic? What the hell. Most of what I've been saying is: maybe Swedish politics should accept SD exists and work with them, since there may be some issues hundreds of thousands of Swedes find important enough to still vote a party that is so utterly vilified from all directions, and that this thing is certainly not going to just vanish by ignoring it. I would be perfectly happy with S and M having their traditional immigration sceptic roles, but the whole issue have been abandoned to SD, which is so loving stupid I despise them all. To recap, 1989 S made Luciabeslutet and sent Kosovo-Albanians back to their country. 1993 Fyrklövern changed the rules for refuges from the Bosnian War. All in order to reduce the levels of immigration to Sweden. So based on this, M, S, FP, KD and C should all be racist parties. People are so upset by the whole immigration debate that they vote SD, while not liking SD at all. If this is not a major failure by the political parties in addressing important issues, I don't know what is. Interestingly, Mikael Damberg (S), was quoted in Le Monde saying that the Swedish Welfare state is in danger due to an unemployment rate of 8%, mostly due to immigration. http://politiken.se/arkiv/enartikelajax/16901
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Dec 30, 2014 17:18
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Amperod posted:Thank you SplitSoul. It's actually around 20% now and they've polled as #1 twice this year. Most of those voters cropped up during and after their 10-year stint as supporting party for the Liberal-Conservative government, not during the period where other parties shunned them. It's a popular myth that the Danish People's Party owe their popularity to the other parties' reluctance to dealing with them or the perceived immigration issues, but it is just that, a myth; the Social Democrats tried several things to that end in the '90s and, as I said, were responsible for the greatest restriction on immigration before or since. Funnily enough, the Social Democrats themselves have crashed and burned ever since they adopted DPP hallmark policies and rhetoric, including a short period with the worst poll results in over a century. I must've missed the time where the village idiots left DPP. Can you elaborate? I mean, Jesper Langballe died (mashallah) and Søren Krarup retired, but that's not really the same and their children took their places anyway. Sweden beat us to a legit neo-nazi municipal victory, too, Daniel Carlsen and his merry band of jackbooted skinheads only mustered something like 7,000 votes nation-wide. Maybe next time... SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 18:00
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SplitSoul posted:It's actually around 20% now and they've polled as #1 twice this year. Most of those voters cropped up during and after their 10-year stint as supporting party for the Liberal-Conservative government, not during the period where other parties shunned them. It's a popular myth that the Danish People's Party owe their popularity to the other parties' reluctance to dealing with them or the perceived immigration issues, but it is just that, a myth; the Social Democrats tried several things to that end in the '90s and, as I said, were responsible for the greatest restriction on immigration before or since. Funnily enough, the Social Democrats themselves have crashed and burned ever since they adopted DPP hallmark policies and rhetoric, including a short period with the worst poll results in over a century. For the national election Carlsen's Swedish allies only mustered roughly 4k votes so you're still ahead of us there! Also, seeing Carlsen get his ugly mug bottled in may was goddamn therapy.
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Dec 30, 2014 18:23
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Rutkowski posted:For the national election Carlsen's Swedish allies only mustered roughly 4k votes so you're still ahead of us there! Oh, they haven't run for parliament yet, if that's what you're referring to. They did secure 120,000 DKK in state-funding for the next municipal election, though. Rutkowski posted:Also, seeing Carlsen get his ugly mug bottled in may was goddamn therapy. That owns. Is there a video of this somewhere?
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Dec 30, 2014 18:43
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Ligur posted:The what tactic? What the hell. Most of what I've been saying is: maybe Swedish politics should accept SD exists and work with them, since there may be some issues hundreds of thousands of Swedes find important enough to still vote a party that is so utterly vilified from all directions, and that this thing is certainly not going to just vanish by ignoring it. In my experience plenty of people have an opinion on immigration, but mostly it's not a big enough issue to change what you vote for. But for the majority of people voting SD, immigration is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING. Not retired people or taxes or wolves or the environment, but immigration. It's not a coincidence that this is also the case for SD itself, and every chance they get its always "BUT WHAT ABOUT CUTTING DOWN ON IMMIGRATION". SD did not have a stance on retired people or taxes or wolves or the environment until they where forced to have one because no one wants to vote for the equivalent of HULK SMASH IMMIGRATION. This can clearly be seen in the budget debacle. They said, straight up, that they would only vote for a budget that cut down on immigration (and the cost of it). They simply don't care about ANYTHING ELSE when push comes to shove.
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Dec 30, 2014 19:11
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Ligur posted:I behold in awe what brainwashing and propaganda from all sides at once can still achieve. You can just ignore hundreds of thousands of people because, uhh, they, they are neofascists!!!! THEY WILL DO TERRIBALE THINGES!!1
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Dec 30, 2014 19:15
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SplitSoul posted:That owns. Is there a video of this somewhere?
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Dec 30, 2014 20:39
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Martout posted:You frequently accuse people in this thread of thinking every SD voter is a balls to the wall nazi. Which nobody does. That is a strawman tactic and you use it a lot, actually! No I don't. I'm saying that according to the political establishment and not a few posters in this thread (who go on and on about how horrible SD is irregardless if Cardiac is here to remind them) it's ok to ignore and vilify SD because of neofascism and racism, or perhaps nationalism, or because they talk about immigration or whatever the reason of the day is. And I don't really agree with this view. That in no way implies the accusation of "people in this thread think every SD voter is balls to the walls nazi": that's completely in your head. So it's not my problem, but yours. Clear your head. Especially if you imagine I make this accusation "frequently". I think it's safe to say that every single person of any political persuasion understands not all SD voters or even members are crazy neofascists; but that doesn't stop hysterics from thinking it's ok to shut them out anyway. quote:You have also on multiple occasions called immigrants and muslims "undesirables" and "undesirable elements" which is indefensible. Also why everyone thinks you're a shithead. Stop being a shithead. I haven't even used the word "undesirable" in this thread much less in that context. Nor called muslims anything at all. I have laughed at people who are afraid of "teh muslim threat" though. Look, if at this point you don't see anything peculiar with you accusing others of strawmen, I don't know what to say... edit: odd, but posters who use phrases like "multiple occasions" and often use words like "frequently", "strawman", "hope this helps" and "tactics" (in the context of attacking other posters) are usually the ones most full of crap when it comes to a debating anything. Also those who literally can't make a post without repeating the word literally! Like, I understand people are furious with other people who don't share their views, or have different opinions, and scream their head off. But the above style of discussing the fact just doesn't make any sense to me. kissekatt posted:Actually, you can "ignore" hundreds of thousands of people because they don't have a parliamentary majority, and as such the other parties are able to make deals that does not include SD. For the same reason Jimmie Åkesson isn't the prime minister 13% of the term, despite hundreds of thousands of people voting for him. Hope this basic lesson in democracy has helped. Or this. What the gently caress is this monkey even talking about? Oh thanks for the "lesson" d'awwww. Ligur fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 08:52
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kissekatt posted:Actually, you can "ignore" hundreds of thousands of people because they don't have a parliamentary majority, and as such the other parties are able to make deals that does not include SD. For the same reason Jimmie Åkesson isn't the prime minister 13% of the term, despite hundreds of thousands of people voting for him. Hope this basic lesson in democracy has helped. Sure, but it wasn't that long ago that new elections had been called. Of course that has to do with more than just SD, mainly making agreements that let a minority government get stuff passed rather than forming a majority out of what the election result gives you. Neither options is inherently better in a representative democracy but would bet this wont be the last time these kind of problems come up. RagnarokZ posted:Always remember, if you really want to see what happens when Nationalist parties win elections, go have a look at Hungary, that's what happens when parties like SD, DF and True Finns win. Basic Finns already won, and then refused to participate in the government if it supported EU giving loans to Greece. They've never been in government, but it wasn't for a lack of trying from other parties.
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Dec 31, 2014 10:18
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Legally, the extra election was never called. Löfven said that if an agreement wasn't made by a certain date then a new election would be held. If they could get an agreement before that there would be no elections.
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Dec 31, 2014 10:46
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Ligur posted:Or this. What the gently caress is this monkey even talking about? Oh thanks for the "lesson" d'awwww. Rutkowski posted:Legally, the extra election was never called. Löfven said that if an agreement wasn't made by a certain date then a new election would be held. If they could get an agreement before that there would be no elections.
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Dec 31, 2014 12:11
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SplitSoul posted:
I believe they're referring to the split between the Progress Party and DPP.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:27
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Oh my bad, "unwanted elements" was the term you used. In this very thread, actually.
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Dec 31, 2014 14:35
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Martout posted:Oh my bad, "unwanted elements" was the term you used. In this very thread, actually. Uhhh, when you say that: "You (= Ligur) have also on multiple occasions called immigrants and muslims "undesirables" and "undesirable elements" which is indefensible", you actually mean this one exchange, we're quoting each other with these guyz below... ... when Pastry was: A Buttery Pastry posted:We should add pig to our water supply, to reduce cultural decay. and Xoidanor, like: Xoidanor posted:The smell of smoked ham should hanging like a thick smog over every city. I was like: Ligur posted:This would drive away the unwanted elements. ... you actually thought THIS WAS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION? And not only serious, you somehow managed to come to the conclusion that I have on multiple occasions called immigrants and muslims etc. I can only guess what terrible crimes of thought and word you diagnose Pastry and Xoidanor with. I'm at a total loss of words here. It... I... edit: this somehow helps me better to understand what kind of pillars of thought and masters of reasoning people sympathetic to sensible immigration policies in Sweden must face when the matter is discussed. If you can cleverly deduce what Martout the Wise did from the posts above, I'm 105% sure every single person who opens his mouth about border politics, makes jokes, or bakes a cake is quickly found out to be a Hitler of the most horrible order if required. Baby black Jesus bless, Martout the Wise doesn't understand it himself! He might really think what he wrote was true. I'm in awe. Good call at empty quoting me though, he would have looked like such a tool. Ligur fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 31, 2014 |
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Dec 31, 2014 14:48
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Exercu posted:I believe they're referring to the split between the Progress Party and DPP. I believe Sweden had its own Progress Party that merged with SD, though. The statement still rests on the idea that the DPP doesn't currently have top-ranking members every bit as insane as those of the PP of old, many of them following Pia Kjærsgaard in the split. The current DPP wasn't even the first DPP to split from the PP, some faithful Glistrup-ally who got excluded tried to launch it locally in Odense in '93 and it's probably where Kjærsgaard got the name. And that's way too many mentions of the letters D and P in close proximity in the same paragraph as the name Pia Kjærsgaard. 
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Dec 31, 2014 18:16
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Haha u mad 
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Jan 1, 2015 14:59
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No u r juste realy stupade 
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Jan 1, 2015 19:36
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Ligur posted:No u r juste realy stupade Either that, or you are a really lovely troll. Either or really. Why dont you do everyone a favour and just gently caress off.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:22
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I love that SD politicians are whining about the new automobile tax. The same tax they voted through parliament by voting on the Alliance budget. A tad incosequental maybe? A good summary with some screenshots: http://www.interasistmen.se/dumheter/sd-politiker-gnaller-nya-fordonsskatten-missade-att-sd-rostade-ja-till-skatten/
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Jan 3, 2015 12:05
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Jan 3, 2015 22:12
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Ligur posted:No u r juste realy stupade Ligur posted:So it's not my problem, but yours. Here's how other people's opinion is your problem: 
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Jan 3, 2015 22:17
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Nice, level discussion this page.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:14
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Ligur is always contending for title of worst D&D poster, nobody takes him seriously. Just wanted to see how he'd react when someone was being as willfuly obtuse as he is. Result was a long rear end post with quotes and italics.Wild Horses posted:Nice, level discussion this page. This is basically the LF scandinavia thread but in english. Welcome.
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Jan 4, 2015 10:26
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