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Oh right, and lets not forget the old rumor about the Necrons genetically engineering Humanity to produce Blanks so they could kidnap them, drive them insane, and turn them into Pariahs.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:42
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FireSight posted:Oh right, and lets not forget the old rumor about the Necrons genetically engineering Humanity to produce Blanks so they could kidnap them, drive them insane, and turn them into Pariahs. That was actually just how baby Pariahs were made, before the latest lore reshuffle. It's basically still how baby Culexus Assassins are made, except with the Culexsus Temple doing the torturing.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:47
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Waroduce posted:ok thanks. I will ask him in the thread. appreciate the help As far as I'm aware the change to Scatter is effectively errata, it's supposed to apply across the gameline. That doesn't stop people from using their own rules of course. Another difference between solid projectile weapons and lasweapons is that SP weapons let you load different sorts of ammunition while lasguns generally just get hotshot power packs maybe, while you could go with shot shells for that Scatter bonus or load your shotgun with incendiary rounds or Amputator shells etc.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:51
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Waroduce posted:I think its only war so all I get is
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Jan 2, 2015 07:04
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Kai Tave posted:Another difference between solid projectile weapons and lasweapons is that SP weapons let you load different sorts of ammunition while lasguns generally just get hotshot power packs maybe, while you could go with shot shells for that Scatter bonus or load your shotgun with incendiary rounds or Amputator shells etc. This, along with generally higher rates of fire, are what separate SP weapons from las weapons. For maximum versatility, get a lasgun (triplex pattern or otherwise), mount a secondary shotgun with specialty shells under it, and take full advantage of the different firing modes or power settings that las rifles have. ed: and carry an autopistol for suppression
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Jan 2, 2015 07:07
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Lasguns also tend to have a lot more ammo, and you can halfass a recharge using a campfire in a pinch. This is either useless or vital, depending on your mission and GM.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:16
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Well i wanted to make a real close-quarters stealthy infiltrator dude, but NOT a sniper so I was leaning toward a shotgun. get quietly in your face and blow it off, but now im rethinking since scatter and solid weapons apparently suck
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Jan 2, 2015 07:17
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Waroduce posted:Well i wanted to make a real close-quarters stealthy infiltrator dude, but NOT a sniper so I was leaning toward a shotgun. get quietly in your face and blow it off, but now im rethinking since scatter and solid weapons apparently suck Hand cannon pistols (especially if your DM allows you to get different patterns, like the vastly superior Carnodon) are good, powerful close-range guns that, unlike shotguns or any las weapon, can be silenced. SP guns are still good, but I agree that shotguns really don't work the way you'd think they would or in a way that makes them good in their role.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:20
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No, solid weapons are awesome IF you have access to a stock of specialist ammo and a regular resupply of bullets, and if Scatter is the BC rule then Scatter is actually pretty useful. Basically, an Autopistol loaded with Manstopper or Expander rounds will perform better in combat at close ranges than a lasgun, generally. The problem is, you need access to those rounds, which depending on regiment, campaign, and situation might be hard to do. Lasgun Variable Settings (You can use 2 ammo per shot for +1 damage or 4 ammo per shot and make the gun unreliable for +2 damage and +2 Pen) make it a tougher choice now, too. SP used to be the hands-down mechanically better choice back in DH1e, hence the huge preponderance of people on FFG's forums whining that they want to have Autoguns instead of Lasguns for their Regiment because they're stuck in remembering the days when Full Auto gave you +20 to hit and Lasguns had no way to boost combat performance. They're both good enough basic weapon types now.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:22
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Also unless I'm misremembering there's nothing that says that loading Manstopper rounds in your shotgun causes it to lose the Scatter quality the way Amputator shells do, which can make it even more brutal in close quarters.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:33
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I think RAW, despite Manstoppers originally appearing in the fluff as the specific Shotgun Shells the Arbites use, Manstoppers cannot be loaded into a shotgun.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:33
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Night10194 posted:I think RAW, despite Manstoppers originally appearing in the fluff as the specific Shotgun Shells the Arbites use, Manstoppers cannot be loaded into a shotgun. It turns out we're both right. I double-checked and Only War specifically excludes Manstoppers from being used in shotguns but Black Crusade says they can be used in any SP pistol or basic weapon, which I consider a point in Black Crusade's favor.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:51
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Yeah, manstopper shotgunshells are bascially fletchettes, scatter+armor piercing.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:55
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Yeah, I'm still mostly a fan of using SP guns for all the reasons given here, but the variable power setting stuff introduced in Only War does make las weaponry more of a sold choice, especially on the long-las. That extra damage and Pen are great on a gun that already has good dam and pen; plus with the size of the clip on the long las you still get like 10 shots on the max setting, or as I like to call it, the "oh poo poo a chaos marine just came around the corner" setting.
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Jan 2, 2015 17:08
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So I sent an email to FFG asking about the interaction between the reliable and overheat qualities on weapons, specifically good craftsmanship plasma guns. The answer was that reliable does not affect the overheat range at all, so apparently having no functional difference between poor and good quality plasma weapons is intentional. Why they would think that's a good idea is beyond me, though.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:14
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Winged Orpheus posted:So I sent an email to FFG asking about the interaction between the reliable and overheat qualities on weapons, specifically good craftsmanship plasma guns. The answer was that reliable does not affect the overheat range at all, so apparently having no functional difference between poor and good quality plasma weapons is intentional. Why they would think that's a good idea is beyond me, though. Because plasma guns are fething death-traps? Even the best quality one in the world is still going to overheat, because that's just how plasma weapons "work". I am okay with that rules interpretation, because otherwise we couldn't enjoy this: 
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Jan 2, 2015 19:20
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In shield of humanity the crimson guard have access to the phased plasma fusils from 30k, and they're plasma weapons without the overheat quality and capable of full auto fire. But they're integrated weapons only, because gently caress you regular humans.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:35
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I'm not saying they should be immune to overheat or anything, that's what best quality is for. It just seems silly to me to have no functional difference between a poor quality plasgun vs a good quality one, given that for the same acquisition roll difficulty you could get 2 weapon upgrades on the poor quality one.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:36
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The good quality one has golden etchings on it making it totally worth it.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:37
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My good quality plasma weapon has been blessed by both an imperial priest (Drusian, of course) and a full Magos. (Gold etchings is Best quality level)
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Jan 2, 2015 19:39
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FirstPersonShitter posted:In shield of humanity the crimson guard have access to the phased plasma fusils from 30k, and they're plasma weapons without the overheat quality and capable of full auto fire. But they're integrated weapons only, because gently caress you regular humans. In my Imperium Secundus game, I added those functions to regular plasma weapons in the IS with the explanation that the Mechanicus has always retained the mechanisms, but they haven't been distributed even to Astartes because of internal AdMech politics. The Tau were very unhappy the first time they encountered tooled up Secundan forces.
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Jan 2, 2015 19:39
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Who needs plasma guns anyway when you have melta guns
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Jan 2, 2015 19:54
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frajaq posted:Who needs plasma guns anyway when you have melta guns Or, more to the point for my Imperium Secundus, when you have volkite guns.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:14
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 MY IMPERIUM SECUNDUS
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Jan 2, 2015 20:21
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Plasma Weapons have always felt sorta mechanically underwhelming compared to meltas and stuff in the RPGs. DH1e Plasma Guns were the worst, mind, before they introduced Maximal, but even after, they just seem to be kinda there.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:40
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scalded schlong posted:
Fine, I'll shut up about it.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:44
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Cythereal posted:Fine, I'll shut up about it. Please don't.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:52
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Whats the big deal about volkite guns anyway
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Jan 2, 2015 20:54
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frajaq posted:Whats the big deal about volkite guns anyway I'm pretty okay with any weapon that kills the guy it hits so hard that it also kills his buddy who was standing next to him.
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Jan 2, 2015 20:57
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Cythereal posted:Fine, I'll shut up about it. No it's cool you have your own Warhammer 50k setting and all and it's nice to hear about it occasionally but when every post contains that phrase it starts to wear a little. It's not really like anyone else can get in on the conversation. In other news I didn't quite twig that Black Crusade scatter rules were much better than Only War scatter rules and I think I'll use them now. It makes it a hell of a lot easier working out semi- and full- auto bursts with shotgun weapons, too.
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Jan 2, 2015 21:08
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frajaq posted:Whats the big deal about volkite guns anyway They're the weapons the Emperor originally intended as the standard Astartes issue weapons, but they proved too costly to manufacture to bolters became the standard instead. They're particle beam weapons that can scorch you so hard they also fry your buddy. quote:No it's cool you have your own Warhammer 50k setting and all and it's nice to hear about it occasionally but when every post contains that phrase it starts to wear a little. It's not really like anyone else can get in on the conversation. Fair enough. I originally just had a volkite serpenta in the original Rogue Trader game as an inferno pistol with deflagrate and more damage.
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Jan 2, 2015 21:10
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If we're still doing fanon conspiracy theories, my favorite is that Chaos wasn't lying to Horus at all about what the Emperor was planning to do post Crusade. That just like he threw away the Thunderwarriors after uniting Terra, he really was going to get rid of the Astartes/Primarchs as a temporary measure and convenience after he'd reunited the galaxy.
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Jan 2, 2015 21:32
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He was going to shove them all into dreadnoughts. "Regular" tactical dreadnoughts, assault dreadnoughts with explosive teleporters and 8 foot lightning claws, devestator dreadnoughts with whirlwind missile launchers mounted on their head, scout dreadnoughts as just torsos mounted on land speeder frames, terminators being dreadnoughts mounted in scout titans. He just had to convince them all to have their limbs hacked off and be wired in.
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Jan 2, 2015 21:45
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Night10194 posted:If we're still doing fanon conspiracy theories, my favorite is that Chaos wasn't lying to Horus at all about what the Emperor was planning to do post Crusade. That just like he threw away the Thunderwarriors after uniting Terra, he really was going to get rid of the Astartes/Primarchs as a temporary measure and convenience after he'd reunited the galaxy. My take on that theory is that it really depended on the legion and the primarch. Some, he deemed acceptable and would be kept on in a united galaxy, like Papa Smurf, but others would be purged once they had served their purpose. Horus, I think, would have been one of the ones to be purged. Warmaster is who he is. I can't see Horus really settling down to rule rather than conquer, or accept a position where he would answer to others while covering a specific responsibility. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 21:50
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Warhammer 40k conspiracies! -Tzeentch cannot actually create a plan so intricate that even he is fooled by it. (see: the God-Rock question)
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Jan 2, 2015 23:02
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Cythereal posted:My take on that theory is that it really depended on the legion and the primarch. Some, he deemed acceptable and would be kept on in a united galaxy, like Papa Smurf, but others would be purged once they had served their purpose. Eh, this really flies in the face of his characterization. He literally ended up in his current situation because he couldn't bear to believe that his favorite son was too far gone to be reached until he was too hosed up to live after striking him down. Also it's often pointed out that Sanguinius was the son that The Emperor wanted Horus to be, but he was blinded by his favoritism towards his "firstborn" son and couldn't see it.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:11
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Hodgepodge posted:Eh, this really flies in the face of his characterization. He literally ended up in his current situation because he couldn't bear to believe that his favorite son was too far gone to be reached until he was too hosed up to live after striking him down. I always took it less as that and more not being able to believe someone would actually defy him and gently caress up his plan, rather than actual affection.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:45
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Hodgepodge posted:Eh, this really flies in the face of his characterization. He literally ended up in his current situation because he couldn't bear to believe that his favorite son was too far gone to be reached until he was too hosed up to live after striking him down. Again, my take is different: that the Emperor quite simply didn't appreciate the humanity of the primarchs. He expected them to be mirrors of himself: cold, emotionless, always seeing the big picture and acting on it even if the small picture is unpleasant. The traitor primarchs fell for human reasons and human failings, things the Emperor did not understand because he assumed his sons above such petty things.
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Jan 3, 2015 00:13
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Hodgepodge posted:Also it's often pointed out that Sanguinius was the son that The Emperor wanted Horus to be, but he was blinded by his favoritism towards his "firstborn" son and couldn't see it. The Emperor didn't pick Horus because he was the best of his sons, he picked Horus because Horus was a conqueror and that's what he wanted.
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Jan 3, 2015 00:33
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quote:Know No Fear - Dan Abnett
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Jan 3, 2015 00:43
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