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With four it is a good idea to mix up your pack ratios (ie more packs with less picks) and to do two headed giant. In my experience that works out alright, as long as your teams aren't too imbalanced.
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Jan 4, 2015 13:39
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Yeah, it's really not that hard to make proxies in bulk if you have the sleeves. As for drafting with four, my group has found grid drafting to work really well: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/cube-design-grid-drafting-and-more/
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Jan 4, 2015 15:56
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I have a 4-man multiplayer cube. I wouldnt do 1v1 with only 4 people, but FFA and two-headed work really well.
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Jan 4, 2015 16:27
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I really like 4 player with 5 packs of 9 each, then doing 1v1s. I think if you wanted to do multiplayer or 2HG, you'd have to construct the cube to reflect this as a lot of the cards which are good in cube usually, like 1-for-1 removal/counterspells drop off hard in value when you're playing multiplayer.
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Jan 4, 2015 16:38
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Aston posted:I really like 4 player with 5 packs of 9 each, then doing 1v1s. I think if you wanted to do multiplayer or 2HG, you'd have to construct the cube to reflect this as a lot of the cards which are good in cube usually, like 1-for-1 removal/counterspells drop off hard in value when you're playing multiplayer. I'm in agreement with that. We had a 4 player group who drafted my cube and we always did 1v1. It worked great. We found things were better with a 5x9 pack distribution as well, but we sometimes increased it to 5x11 so that everyone had better decks. After all, the idea of only drafting 45 cards total wasn't handed down from on high, it's just a relic of the size of retail packs. Since cube drafting is something we do for fun, sometimes it is just more fun to have a higher average card quality in your decks that results from having drafted more cards in your colors. So I highly encourage people to experiment with pack sizes and number of packs because that is an additional way for adding variety to your drafts.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:40
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Sword of Feast and Famine and Prophetic Flamespeaker is quite the pair in cube. Major blowouts including fireblasting a blocking wurmcoil. 3-0 Snacksmaniac fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 05:43
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Snacksmaniac posted:Sword of Feast and Famine and Prophetic Flamespeaker is quite the pair in cube.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:26
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No I had it in hand but I got mox and shrine out of exile. Since I had it in hand, I got two triggers from him trampling through.
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Jan 5, 2015 06:27
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I was bored today, so I decided to design a 360 powered cube. Here is the CubeTutor link It's fairly high powered, and I've tried to slot in some archetypes to the colours and pairs (spoilered so people can form their own opinions first if they prefer): White: Hatebears, Prison/Control, Tokens Blue: Counterspells, Storm Enablers, Some tempo creatures Black: Reanimate, Storm, Kill spells/Pox Red: Aggro, Burn, some storm and reanimation enablers Green: Elf tribal, Ramp, Fatties So hopefully the colour pairs go something like this: WU: Control UB: Reanimation or Storm combo, or Tempo creatures (I think the UB gold and hybrids don't match the combos, but I don't want to overdo the combo cards) BR: Reanimator or Storm combo, or aggro RG: Ramp into fatties GW: Hatebears WB: Stax/Pox UR: Counterburn/Spells matter-Tempo BG: eehhhh this one is a bit under-defined I think RW: Tokens GU: Card draw and big mana creatures - a little shaky I think I'm worried that there are too many spells and not enough creatures. I'm used to playing legacy and vintage constructed, so my knowledge of limited environments is, well, limited. Green is heaviest on creatures, and Blue and Black are lightest, which seems right, but I think there might be too many spells that do nothing outside of their combos. I have tried to leave to leave out the big turn 1 plays, but it's still high-powered. I also tried to put in enough hate bears and such that there are outs for some of the fair decks. If some of you could take a look or try a draft or 2, I'd really appreciate some feedback on the design.
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Jan 5, 2015 09:54
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Mondrian posted:I was bored today, so I decided to design a 360 powered cube... Is this just a 'gently caress it I'm bored' experiment or an actual list of cards you intend on assembling? I have a lot to comment about but I don't really have any interest in doing so if this was just a fart in the wind you wanted to share with us.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:32
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There simply are not enough Legacy/Vintage powered cards across all the colors to fill 360 cards and have the environment look anything like Legacy/Vintage constructed. The first thing I would do would be to look at breaking the singleton rule if that's what you are going for.
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Jan 6, 2015 19:57
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I think you have a few problems: Number one is cards which are way too narrow in that they're played in one archetype and unplayable outside of it (eg Elvish Champion, Triplicate Spirits) Number two is that the delta between the most powerful and least powerful cards is enormous. I like Jeskai Windscout and Jace The Mindsculptor chilling next to each other Number three is that a lot of cards are just plan bad or worse versions of other cards I would also say that your multicoloured section is way too big, but that's more a taste thing than anything else. There are a couple of other things I would mention like the aggro support vs the rest is very wonky, and the mana curve in general seems very high. I hope you don't find this too offputting, and take it as constructive feedback. I also have to ask, what role do you hope Norin the Wary will fill?
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Jan 6, 2015 23:52
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What do you guys think about putting powerful combos in your cubes? Obviously I'm not going to throw in two cards that are useless without each other, but unstoppable together, but I'm not sure how close I should get. I'm building my cube for casual drafting with friends and local players. We're not pros by any stretch, so any combos that are in there I will probably point out to everyone. I think I want to avoid something as powerful and simple as Time Vault + Voltaic Key where you're just kind of screwed if you don't have an answer immediately This should still be a fun cube with cool interactions, though. One combo that I'm probably including is Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire since the cards do something on their own and it's not like a hard lock by any stretch. There will be some exile counters and land destruction. So where do you draw the line? Any examples from your cubes?
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Jan 19, 2015 01:06
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odiv posted:What do you guys think about putting powerful combos in your cubes? Obviously I'm not going to throw in two cards that are useless without each other, but unstoppable together, but I'm not sure how close I should get. That's kind of the point of cube for a lot of us! Opposition is a one-card combo in most green-blue decks. Tinker and any powerful artifact is a timeless combo. Green Sun Zenith into anything is a great combo. The list goes on. Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire is not so great of a combo because they don't really do what you want them to do on their own and are only highly complemented by being paired together. It's sort of like what you mentioned with Time Vault being a one-trick pony. No other cards in magic's history pair well with Punishing Fire in a cube setting, and Grove has no benefit outside of Punishing that Taiga, Wooded Foothills, etc other duals do better. I draw the line in cards that have singular interactions like the Time Vault example. I like cards that have multivariate functionality. That said, I run Dryad Arbor in my cube from time to time (that no one ever agrees with) just to make GSZ/Craterhoof decks even better because I'm wierd like that. Basically you should read some good cube articles and listen to some podcasts because I'm not really sure what your experience level is with cube, but asking what good combos are to include is a bit vague and directionless. And then once you've got an idea of what cube is like, proxy something up for you and your buddies to playtest and evolve it from there!
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Jan 19, 2015 02:58
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I haven't gotten to cube in a long time and as such haven't updated it since maybe, Ravnica? I would appreciate any input as I go about replacing old cards with new hotness. http://www.cubetutor.com/home/1728
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Jan 19, 2015 03:46
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I haven't gotten to cube in a long time and as such haven't updated it since maybe, Ravnica? Check out Conspiracies. You run power: backup plan, double stroke and power play are as powerful if not more so than power.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:53
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So I basically asked "How do I cubed?" Point taken. I've just got maybe a half dozen MTGO cubes under my belt and am looking for a way to play some more magic. Where I live FNM is sealed, Game Day is Standard and beyond that there's nothing going on. So I'm going a little nuts here. Plus, I've got a couple of kids now, so it's rare that I can make it out to play anyway (just missed the prerelease). I've been working on some archetypes, but the combos like Twin/Exarch and Vault/Key aren't really at the power level I want to be I don't think, so I was looking for stuff that was one or two steps down from that. I'll dive in to some material in the OP and see what's there for me, thanks.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:49
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Null1fy posted:Check out Conspiracies. You run power: backup plan, double stroke and power play are as powerful if not more so than power. I have this very silly "its not real magic" feeling when it comes to conspiracies. I have power because there's just such a "cool" and exciting factor to drafting a lotus and powering something out Turn 1 and I'm not sure I'm willing to trade crowd favorites or important enablers for the conspiracies, what do you recommend I take out for them? Also does anyone have experience with the draft-altering cards? Are they worth the slot? Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 05:41
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odiv posted:I've been working on some archetypes, but the combos like Twin/Exarch and Vault/Key aren't really at the power level I want to be I don't think, so I was looking for stuff that was one or two steps down from that. I'll dive in to some material in the OP and see what's there for me, thanks. Twin / Exarch combo is actually pretty doable and a powerful control deck if you play Resto Angel, Kiki, Exarch or Pestermite and Conscripts. Ciprian Maricon posted:I have this very silly "its not real magic" feeling when it comes to conspiracies. I have power because there's just such a "cool" and exciting factor to drafting a lotus and powering something out Turn 1 and I'm not sure I'm willing to trade crowd favorites or important enablers for the conspiracies, what do you recommend I take out for them? The conspiracies are just absurd and my playgroup loves them. Whitewolf made a package a while back of 15 extra cards he could remove or add as he pleased to support draft altering cards like conspiracies and the artifact creatures, which is something to think about. Canal Dredger often nets 2 playables if taken in the first two rounds, Lore Seeker gives you an extra shot at power (and another first pick) and Cogwork Librarian sometimes nets you two pieces of power if you have it when you open a new pack - which feels very cool! I hated Agent of Acquisitions for the fact that it often just removed cards from picks that belonged to dudes correctly drafting. I also wasn't a fan of Deal Broker because the swap was often so-so but he's not awful and I know people with larger lists who run it and enjoy it. And as far as what you could replace.... First, I'd do some recategorization. Shrine of Burning Rage, Vedalken Shackles and Crystal Shard are really colored cards, in my opinion and take up valuable space being considered colorless (3 openings). Ratchet Bomb has been a bit slow for me as a board wiper, so that's an option. Otherwise Loxodon Warhammer and Sword of the Meek are pretty subpar in terms of the absurdity of what players already have to choose from with the equipment that exists already (2 potential openings). Phyrexian Processor and Voltaic Key aren't very exciting cards and don't really execute anything super bonkers in your list, so they could go (2 more options). Thopter Assembly is pretty cool, but nothing fantastic that can't be replaced as is Epochrasite (2 more options). Ulamog is a little out of place with no Show and Tell, Eureka or Sneak Attack (why are these cards not in the cube????). Just some ideas. Null1fy fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 06:03
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Also does anyone have experience with the draft-altering cards? Are they worth the slot? Except the high city, since the name etc etc joke never gets old. (shockingly it taps for green >90% of the time)
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Jan 19, 2015 06:51
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Also does anyone have experience with the draft-altering cards? Are they worth the slot? most of them are unfun but Booster Tutor is the best Cube card ever made.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:57
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I dunno I really like Lore Seeker too. Hit with my play group as well.
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Jan 19, 2015 07:04
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Drafting conspiracies are like trying out Mind Twist or Eureka, for example, which are two insanely broken cards that either leave a sour taste in a players mouth or are lauded as timeless champions. Don't just write them out without giving them an honest shot. They'll be something that your playgroup either likes or doesn't, but what's the loving fun in cubing if you ignore an opportunity to try out some of magic history? Having some stagnant list that you never experiment with is boring! Step outside of the comfort zone and spend $5 on some conspiracies to sleeve up and test out. Worst case scenario is you never play them again.
Null1fy fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 07:18
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Null1fy posted:Show and Tell, Eureka or Sneak Attack (why are these cards not in the cube????). I'm too lazy to take them out of Sneak and Show/Trade for one. I guess its time to trade for 5th copies and my first Eureka, ugh. Love the feedback. I have this paralysis when it comes to getting rid of cards. I always start thinking "but I drafted this one time and it was cool" and I just get stuck not changing anything. I'm thinking of replacing certain things in my cube with the following, and I'd love suggestions as to what to replace. Soldier of the Pantheon Imposing Sovereign Brimaz, King of Oreskos Elspeth, Sun's Champion Spear of Heliod (probably an easy swap for Glorious Anthem) Augur of Bolas Serendib Efreet Venser, Shaper Savant Jace, Architect of Thought (I'm on the fence about this one) Daze (also on the fence) Hero's Downfall Desecration Demon Necromancy Firefrinker Satyr Young Pyromancer Eidolon of the Great Revel Chandra, Pyromaster Faithless Looting Elvish Mystic (I have enough mana elves maybe?) Experiment One Courser of Kruphix Xenagons, the Reveler Tidehollow Sculler Lolteth Troll Kiora, the Crashing Way Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 07:21
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Are those cards you're putting in? They all seem fine to me. Also try out: Dack Fayden Dack's Duplicate Keranos, God of Storms Magister of Worth Ashen Rider Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver Containment Priest Soulfire Grand Master Monastery Mentor Unexpectedly Absent Council's Judgement Banishing Light True-Name Nemesis Clever Impersonator Dig Through Time Treasure Cruise Thassa, God of the Sea Master of Waves Bloodsoaked Champion Flesh Carver Master of the Feast (if you run black aggro) Gnarled Scarhide (if you run black aggro) Murderous Cut Hero's Downfall Curse of Shallow Graves Monastery Swiftspear War-Name Aspirant Daretti, Scrap Savant Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker Flamekin Village Rattleclaw Mystic Sylvan Caryatid Warden of the Third Path (if you support green aggro) Reclamation Sage (best naturalize on a stick printed to date) Courser of Kruphix Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury Song of the Dryads Mana Confluence To name a few...
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Jan 19, 2015 09:46
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Finding cards to put in has never been the issue. I can never decide what to take out.
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Jan 19, 2015 09:59
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Finding cards to put in has never been the issue. I can never decide what to take out. Stuff that does the same thing as other stuff, but worse. Or stuff that does not as exciting stuff as the new stuff.
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Jan 19, 2015 10:08
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That reminds me that I want to live the dream so bad of attacking with Alesha and paying 2 to vomit out a Clever Impersonator who then becomes a planeswalker For a brief flicker, a copy of Jace will be attacking, and then remember itself
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Jan 19, 2015 10:16
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Null1fy posted:Are those cards you're putting in? They all seem fine to me. Also try out: Which card is this?
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Jan 19, 2015 10:32
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Looks like it could be Feldon of the Third Path
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Jan 19, 2015 11:04
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Warden of the First Tree?
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Jan 19, 2015 14:26
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Aston posted:Looks like it could be Feldon of the Third Path It's probably Warden of the First Tree, a new rare in Fate Reforged that kind of hearkens back to Figure of Destiny.
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Jan 19, 2015 14:26
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Everyone please pray for my dodgy reimbursement after the client freaked out after Eureka and wouldn't let me put BG Garruk into play after my opponent dropped Karn.
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Jan 19, 2015 14:30
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Andante posted:It's probably Warden of the First Tree, a new rare in Fate Reforged that kind of hearkens back to Figure of Destiny. Are you trying to suggest that Feldon of the Third Way doesn't go in green aggro decks?
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Jan 19, 2015 14:35
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Hmmm, you guys convinced me to investigate adding Conspiracies to my cube. I have been meaning to add Dack Fayden already but keep forgetting. Also, I love Booster Tutor. My old shop did and Unhinged draft before I moved and it was so goddamn fun. I drafted a full playset of those and had packs of Innistrad block standing by. It was 50/50 on getting a useful card, but it was really fun.
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Jan 19, 2015 20:34
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Hmmm, you guys convinced me to investigate adding Conspiracies to my cube. I have been meaning to add Dack Fayden already but keep forgetting. Had one guy open the newest 3W Ajani out of a booster pack. He played it (he was in white), and then I added it to the Cube permanently (I needed one!!)
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Jan 20, 2015 03:40
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Andante posted:It's probably Warden of the First Tree, a new rare in Fate Reforged that kind of hearkens back to Figure of Destiny. I'm running both of those; Warden mainly b/c I got the timestamped-foil version from the pre-release, which is enough to convince me to try it out. Feldon b/c reanimator is sweet, and 2/3 for 3 isn't terrible stats.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:42
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logis posted:I'm running both of those; Warden mainly b/c I got the timestamped-foil version from the pre-release, which is enough to convince me to try it out. Feldon b/c reanimator is sweet, and 2/3 for 3 isn't terrible stats. I meant warden of the first tree. I have played Feldon, as well, but I'm gonna try Alesha out for a bit in his place. On booster tutor: in my cube, the packs end up being 15 randoms from what ever is left over from the draft that went undrafted.
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Jan 20, 2015 03:51
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Finally getting off my butt and updating my pauper cube. One of my main goals is to add in at least a small theme for each ally pair. Presently I'm thinking UW bounce/flicker, UB self-mill flashback/recursion, BR is tentatively mutual pain but was considering madness, WG tokens/convoke. RG I'm not on anything I'm super excited about though. Kicker has been in by a buddy. Not too many crazy RG kicker spells though. A strange amount also take land sac, although that's not a huge issue with the amount of ramp/fixing available. So mainly looking for RG and RB suggestions here. I'm willing to dip into a few uncommons here or there in my cube if they aren't anything too over the top if that helps open something up. Alaan fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 04:13
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Werewolves!
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Jan 20, 2015 05:14
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