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Apparently there were four FTs found in Afghanistan before 2003. Seems like they may have been emplaced as monuments or something though: pic.
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Jan 3, 2015 19:15
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Siivola posted:It sounds like Nenonen is describing a tank destroyer. I know the M10 had the rear-mounted machine gun, not sure about M36 or M18. Or possibly the M8 howitzer motor carriage, that was an odd one. Both the M10 GMC and the M36 Jackson had the rear-mounted MG. The M18 Hellcat had it on a flexible ring mount for the TC (Tank Commander) to use. Oftentimes you'll see the M10 or M36 in the field with the MG removed or someone standing on the engine deck and using it, as you might see on the M4 Medium as well. I *think* the M8 HMC's gun was usable forward, though I don't know if it was capable of 360 coverage while still in the turret or not, save for blind-firing with an arm extended up.
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Jan 3, 2015 19:35
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Taerkar posted:Both the M10 GMC and the M36 Jackson had the rear-mounted MG. The M18 Hellcat had it on a flexible ring mount for the TC (Tank Commander) to use. Oftentimes you'll see the M10 or M36 in the field with the MG removed or someone standing on the engine deck and using it, as you might see on the M4 Medium as well. Putting the AAMG mount up front was definitely one of the more common Sherman field modifications. I imagine it was similar with the TDs.
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Jan 3, 2015 19:39
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Magni posted:Their cavalry also did pretty well out on the Eastern Front and famously pulled off this bit of craziness. wikipedia posted:Trumpeter Carenzi, having to handle both trumpet and pistol, shot by mistake his own horse in the head.  riiiight. It certainly looks like an Italian story.
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Jan 3, 2015 20:05
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Arquinsiel posted:Apparently there were four FTs found in Afghanistan before 2003. Seems like they may have been emplaced as monuments or something though: pic. MS-1s are found every so often in the Transbaikal military district, since they were dug in as emplacements and gradually abandoned/forgotten.
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Jan 3, 2015 20:22
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Guildencrantz posted:As fun as it is to make fun of Italians' incompetence in warfare, that just made me curious: What would you guys say was Italy's biggest success in WW2? Was there anything they actually managed to do well and not gently caress up? The Italian navy did pretty good until they started running out of fuel and losses they couldn't replace mounted up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pedestal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vigorous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Harpoon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Sirte
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Jan 3, 2015 21:15
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Finns dug in their FT17s during the Winter War, and they were lost to the Soviets without fight. Video of a Polish FT17 from 2013: http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2081488 (not sure if you can watch videos from that site outside Finland) Hogge Wild fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 3, 2015 |
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Jan 3, 2015 22:00
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Ensign Expendable posted:The M3 Lee was actually very well received in Africa, and was wrecking the Japanese in Burma until the end of the war. It's true that the tank was a stopgap, but the gun was very powerful, and the armour was thick for a medium tank at the time. In Europe, where the Germans were cranking out all their best toys, it might have been suboptimal, but in Africa and Burma, it was great. Dinky old PzIVs and PzIIIs were no match for it. Another memory I can't source, from a British tanker in SE Asia, but he loved the Lee. Since they'd normally be advancing down a jungle track, the lack of transverse for the 75mm didn't matter, since anything worth a shell at could only be directly in front of you. The 37mm in the turret, on the other hand, had canister rounds, which apparently was just the thing for popping at infantry when it tried to sneak up on you in the jungle.
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Jan 3, 2015 22:08
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Retarded Pimp posted:The Italian navy did pretty good until they started running out of fuel and losses they couldn't replace mounted up. Wasn't all pro sex star or whatever the hell his name was working on an effort post of the siege of malta, one of my favorite stories of the war?
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Jan 3, 2015 22:56
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Frostwerks posted:Wasn't all pro sex star or whatever the hell his name was working on an effort post of the siege of malta, one of my favorite stories of the war?  ), which means he should sober up in about a week
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Jan 4, 2015 04:48
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Kemper Boyd posted:There's the old joke where a German vet explains aircraft recognition to a fresh recruit. I remember it a bit more complex: If you see a dark plane that bombs you, it is the RAF. If you see a silver plane that bombs the other guys its the USAAF. If you see a Green plane that bombs everyone its the Soviets. If you see empty skies with no planes it is the Luftwaffe.
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Jan 4, 2015 04:56
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Hogge Wild posted:Finns dug in their FT17s during the Winter War, and they were lost to the Soviets without fight. It moves! It's adorable 
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Jan 4, 2015 05:02
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Today I learned that the guys I study, despite their many failings, were probably good dads. Unlike later, taking care of children, even small ones, was not regarded as unmanly. Neither was crying in public if you had strong feelings about something. Imagine one of them, infant on one hip and rapier on the other, thinking 'bout war HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jan 4, 2015 |
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Jan 4, 2015 09:30
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Mightypeon posted:I remember it a bit more complex: From D-Day: June 6, 1944 -- The Climactic Battle of WWII: "A Wehrmacht joke had it that if the plane was silver it was American, if it was blue it was British, if it was invisible it was ours." JcDent posted:It moves! It's adorable Haha, yeah  . I'd buy one.
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Jan 4, 2015 09:51
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SeanBeansShako posted:Steady on. Matilda I was pretty bad - a FPS 2-person tank and not one survived the Battle of France. Now the Matilda II was a pretty good tank, only held back from later upgrading due to a small turret. It had the same issues every other UK tank had- great craftmanship that is wounderfully put together...until you need to replace a part and it won't fit in the hand crafted tank.
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Jan 4, 2015 11:13
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JcDent posted:It moves! It's adorable 
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Jan 4, 2015 13:24
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HEY GAL posted:Yeah he's at a conference right now (a conference I should be at, but Good to know that conferences are the same regardless of type.
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Jan 4, 2015 13:28
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So that's how X-COM tanks work! 
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Jan 4, 2015 13:29
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my dad posted:So that's how X-COM tanks work! It's also how Starcraft siege tanks work.
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Jan 4, 2015 13:35
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/tg/ recently featured a nature documentary.
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Jan 4, 2015 14:15
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Comstar posted:Matilda I was pretty bad - a FPS 2-person tank and not one survived the Battle of France. Actually not that bad compared to some of the other junk people were running in 1939, because the standard early war German anti-tank guns couldn't get through its armour. Hence why the 88mm anti-aircraft gun ended up being repurposed for AT.
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Jan 4, 2015 15:01
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feedmegin posted:Actually not that bad compared to some of the other junk people were running in 1939, because the standard early war German anti-tank guns couldn't get through its armour. Hence why the 88mm anti-aircraft gun ended up being repurposed for AT. It was also designed to be cheap and mass-producible (a product of the inter-war British flirtation with the idea of the mostly-tank army).
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Jan 4, 2015 15:14
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Hogge Wild posted:From D-Day: June 6, 1944 -- The Climactic Battle of WWII: Does he source his version or just state it?
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Jan 4, 2015 16:51
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Cyrano4747 posted:Does he source his version or just state it? No sources. There was an article about German WWII humor in a local paper last year and it had that one too. Last time it came up in this thread in last May, i tried to google it, and that book was the first hit. Looks like it was really widespread and no one knows its exact origins anymore. Have some more: The German army HQ receives news that Mussolini’s Italy has joined the war. “We’ll have to put up 10 divisions to counter him!” says one general. “No, he’s on our side,” says another. “Oh, in that case we’ll need 20 divisions." “What will you do after the war?" "I’ll finally go on a holiday and will take a trip round Greater Germany!” “And what will you do in the afternoon?” Two men meet. “Nice to see you’re free again. How was the concentration camp?” “Great! Breakfast in bed, a choice of coffee or chocolate, and for lunch we got soup, meat and dessert. And we played games in the afternoon before getting coffee and cakes. Then a little snooze and we watched movies after dinner.” The man was astonished: “That’s great! I recently spoke to Meyer, who was also locked up there. He told me a different story.” The other man nods gravely and says: “Yes, well that’s why they’ve picked him up again.” Two Jews are about to be shot. Suddenly the order comes to hang them instead. One says to the other “You see, they’re running out of bullets.”
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Jan 4, 2015 17:07
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HEY GAL posted:Today I learned that the guys I study, despite their many failings, were probably good dads. Unlike later, taking care of children, even small ones, was not regarded as unmanly. Neither was crying in public if you had strong feelings about something. Sometimes I think that the folks in your period are a lot more like a present-day person than your average Victorian who has all of these super-restrictive cultural norms that they have to struggle through that were very peculiar to their era but which many (uninformed) people believe that "the past" was like in general. Well, until I remember that everybody is drunk at all hours of the day and it's common practice to shoot your pistols out the window after dinner.
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Jan 4, 2015 17:08
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Jazerus posted:Sometimes I think that the folks in your period are a lot more like a present-day person than your average Victorian who has all of these super-restrictive cultural norms that they have to struggle through that were very peculiar to their era but which many (uninformed) people believe that "the past" was like in general. Also dishonor is a substance, astrology is real, if you act enough like a member of the opposite sex you might change sex, and you can make your weapons better with magic.
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Jan 4, 2015 23:43
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Jan 5, 2015 00:07
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HEY GAL posted:They have restrictive cultural norms, they're just different. So do we, you just don't notice them like fish don't notice water. Jazerus posted:Well, until I remember that everybody is drunk at all hours of the day and it's common practice to shoot your pistols out the window after dinner.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:08
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Thinking about any of these people being responsible for a tiny human life makes my skin crawl with dread, and then I remember things like how Peter Hagendorf payed a lot of money to send his son to school once the boy hit five. That was pretty rad. (From what I can tell--since these people rarely wrote about their feelings--Hagendorf seems to have really been into education and learning.)
HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 00:14
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Honestly they just sound like ordinary people trying to be decent and successful within a social framework that is oppressive at best and outright diabolical at worst. Which isn't really any different to any other era of civilization, including today. Most parents today make my skin crawl.
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Jan 5, 2015 00:53
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FAUXTON posted:Also an invading/occupying force. They were literally all over the place and coming from known headings so his job was to get in their path, hide behind a tree, and shoot officers without needing to be worried about a precision munition coming in. Given the environment at the time he would have been ridiculously tough to spot unless someone saw the muzzle flash, and he probably could have hauled rear end afterwards if it looked like someone saw it. Plus he was using a Fin Mosin which are quite a deal better than the russian mosins including a heavier barrel and better head spacing. ArchangeI posted:Russian sims probably show that NATO point defense is insufficient to stop the glorious attack of soviet defense to destroy their puny, inferior Capitalist tin boats (any failure in reality is to immediately be remedied by sending person in charge to the gulag or putting a bullet in his head) SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 01:07
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HEY GAL posted:Thinking about any of these people being responsible for a tiny human life makes my skin crawl with dread, and then I remember things like how Peter Hagendorf payed a lot of money to send his son to school once the boy hit five. That was pretty rad. (From what I can tell--since these people rarely wrote about their feelings--Hagendorf seems to have really been into education and learning.) Does anyone at any point in 30YW sources mention having, I don't know, issues with their conscience, considering all the poo poo they did? Probably not because hey, humanity, war etc., but I'm curious. Obviously not expecting tirades on feeling guilty, since that's more of a modern people thing and as you said, those guys don't like talking about feelings, but anything like "well burning that city was regrettable, the troops may have gone overboard on the torture a bit there"? I know a hundred years earlier Charles V apparently felt pretty terrible about the Sack of Rome, but Charles V felt terrible about basically his entire life so I guess that's not a very representative example.
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Jan 5, 2015 01:11
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Guildencrantz posted:Does anyone at any point in 30YW sources mention having, I don't know, issues with their conscience, considering all the poo poo they did? Probably not because hey, humanity, war etc., but I'm curious. Obviously not expecting tirades on feeling guilty, since that's more of a modern people thing and as you said, those guys don't like talking about feelings, but anything like "well burning that city was regrettable, the troops may have gone overboard on the torture a bit there"? I know a hundred years earlier Charles V apparently felt pretty terrible about the Sack of Rome, but Charles V felt terrible about basically his entire life so I guess that's not a very representative example. Outside observers say that being a soldier is bad for your morality, but they're as likely to mention the whoring, drinking, and swearing as they are to mention the war crimes. However, there seems to be a sense that this poo poo is bad. Authority figures like Wallenstein talk about quartering as a problem, and lots of people want to ride herd on their soldiers more than they actually can: a bunch of the things my guys do routinely are against their Articles of War. Peter Hagendorf was sad when Magdeburg was burned "because it was a great city, and a German city." He may also have been bummed to have missed the sack. Actually, thinking about your hypothetical regretful general, an interesting thing about the sack of Magdeburg is that Tilly almost certainly regretted its burning since he had hoped to feed his troops from that city, but he pretended not to when he wrote to the Emperor: "Never was such a victory since the storming of Troy or of Jerusalem. I am sorry that you and the ladies of the court were not there to enjoy the spectacle." Pappenheim, on the other hand, had this to say: "I believe that over twenty thousand souls were lost. It is certain that no more terrible work and divine punishment has been seen since the Destruction of Jerusalem. All of our soldiers became rich. God with us." And that's a guy with many close Protestant friends, who made a conscious decision at one point not to let religious differences get in the way of his personal life. Every now and then you'll have a memoirist who deliberately takes a stroll around some shelled buildings "to see the horrors of war," but I'm not sure if that extends to a full comprehension of the fact that they did that. Religious people often wrote memoirs about their turn from a worldly life to a life spent thinking about God, and some of those people are former soldiers, but according to Yuval Harari, they never mention their military life as having caused their religious conversion, either through a mystical experience obtained in combat or through some sort of conscience-ridden revulsion. I did come across one guy who, during a street fight, pushed his opponents away from him and shouted "I come from evil people!" So it probably varies. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 04:01
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Cyrano4747 posted:They are when the exact thing you're criticizing one tank over is handwaved away in the other, much more successful design. Your average random bridge isn't designed to hold 60+ tons of load. There is a very good reason why most later MBTs have limited river crossing abilities and why most mechanized units have integral bridging capabilities in the modern world. Provided the lovely engine and lovely transmission lasted it long enough to make it to any front line combat when it wouldn't just be blasted to bits by allied aircraft, yeah, sure, it was a great tank, absolutely wonderful in that it was a slow, easy to break down/get stuck pillbox on treads eating up resources like crazy during a time when those resources were very limited...why of course it shouldn't be in a list of worst tanks. Cyrano4747 posted:That's not a rear-firing main gun, it's a forward firing gun on a vehicle with the engine mounted in front of the crew compartment and the crew area located toward the rear of the chassis. That was a thing the Germans did on occasion. I'm sure some engineer had some reason for it, but I don't know it off the top of my head. It is in fact facing backwards. When older tanks became obsolete to the point they were moving targets, the Germans (among other nations) repurposed them like so. Lop off the top and drop an anti tank gun on it. SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 04:42
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Relevant crosspost from the Politically Loaded Maps thread. 
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Jan 5, 2015 06:40
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Who knew that everyone hates San Marino?
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Jan 5, 2015 06:55
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Italy LOL.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:19
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I love that Poland is recognized as being really good in Civ 5
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Jan 5, 2015 07:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:I love that Poland is recognized as being really good in Civ 5 This. Also, I had no idea Serbian sports were so excellent. Austria and Hungary are pretty funny too (racist/rich vs. racist/poor)
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Jan 5, 2015 08:08
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Forums poster my dad, get in here and explain yourself! Also, Greece really is unusually tectonically active.
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Jan 5, 2015 08:13
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