|
So your source is linking a card that was only in standard with hornet queen during super-standard which isn't balanced at all? Your saying they put hornet queen in standard for 15 months to take care of a card that rotated out 3 months after m15? I'm pretty loving stumped.
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:01 |
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:The Khans, lieutenants, and the "if you control a [color] or [color] permanent" cycle all point to wanting two colors. What's the point of stepping down from wedges to these hybrid cards if even the hybrid cards wouldn't work with DTK? It's just idle speculation from the I think an allied color theme seems unlikely from a design standpoint, because all of the hybrid costs in FTF are geared towards wedges (yet are still monocolored) and every single non-Legendary Dragon spell spoiled is enemy-colored. Chorocojo posted:Zodiac Dragon cannot fly and, in fact, has a ruling reminding you that it doesn't despite being a dragon. Zodiac Dragon is a P3K card, though. I don't know that it necessarily fits in with the rest of Magic's design. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
There are a few non flying dragons, but no green ones. I guess the idea they're all wurms checks out. They're all old as gently caress. http://magiccards.info/query?q=t%3Adragon+not+o%3Aflying&v=card&s=cname
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:17
|
|
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:There are a few non flying dragons, but no green ones. I guess the idea they're all wurms checks out. They're all old as gently caress. Canopy Dragon. You lose.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Canopy Dragon. ITS MY WINGS AND I CAN FLY IF I WANT TO! (for 1G)
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:The fact that I think an allied color theme seems unlikely from a design standpoint, because all of the hybrid costs in FTF are geared towards wedges and every single non-Legendary Dragon spell spoiled is enemy-colored. In other words, no evidence for a monocolor theme at all, just process of elimination? FTR is designed to be able to draft well with both Khans and Dragons, that's the whole point of the block structure. FTR has way too many cards that only work in multicolor decks for it to make sense drafting it with a monocolor set. Also monocolor factions suck, which is why Lorwyn owns and Onslaught doesn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
Lottery of Babylon posted:In other words, no evidence for a monocolor theme at all, just process of elimination? Its just speculation based on the things I said. Chill out. Mono-colored clans doesn't mean the set is "mono-colored" and doesn't have any synergy with the other colors, for the record. The "allied-color" theme you guys are talking about sounds to me like it could just be mechanical thing based on the draft format - there are no allied color cards at all in KTK because they wanted to encourage drafting the set by enemy colors and then moving into an appropriate allied one. I'm not discounting the way the clan mechanics are laid out, it just doesn't feel like that's something that's supposed to "evolve" into allied-color pairs. They're already in those pairs in Fate. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
jassi007 posted:So your source is linking a card that was only in standard with hornet queen during super-standard which isn't balanced at all? Your saying they put hornet queen in standard for 15 months to take care of a card that rotated out 3 months after m15? I'm pretty loving stumped. They put Lifebane Zombie in M14 as an answer to Thragtusk despite Thragtusk rotating out 3 months later, because Thragtusk was that stupid. Monoblack was similarly stupid. Hornet Queen isn't an answer to Lifebane Zombie, though, it's just a way to give Green something cool and not give the already broken Black something cool. Black is still the best color in Standard and it'd be a worse format if Abzan and Sultai were the only decks capable of casting Hornet Queen, so I like her as is a lot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
I wouldn't be surprised if a DTK mechanic, either Sultai or its morph variant, produces face-down 2/2 creatures from your graveyard that get exiled when they die.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
Equilibrium posted:They put Lifebane Zombie in M14 as an answer to Thragtusk despite Thragtusk rotating out 3 months later, because Thragtusk was that stupid. Monoblack was similarly stupid. Hornet Queen isn't an answer to Lifebane Zombie, though, it's just a way to give Green something cool and not give the already broken Black something cool. Who was it that wanted to print more broken cards to answer broken cards? Thragtusk ---> Lifebane Zombie is kind of a bad snowball (assuming that's actually why they printed Lifebane). redstormpopcorn posted:I wouldn't be surprised if a DTK mechanic, either Sultai or its morph variant, produces face-down 2/2 creatures from your graveyard that get exiled when they die. I was sort of wondering if DTK might just have straight Morph again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
Samael posted:
I'm all over this in Limited. Turn 2 This -> Turn 3 Alpine Grizzly, -> Use this to drop a Heir of the Wilds. Angry Grimace posted:Its just speculation based on the things I said. Chill out. I think the strongest point as to why the Clans themselves will be Allied Coloured is that the hybrid things still work with those pairs, and are meant to be representitive of the clan, and the flavour that they're lead by the allied coloured Dragons in that timeline.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:40
|
|
|
Rimusutera posted:I'm all over this in Limited. Turn 2 This -> Turn 3 Alpine Grizzly, -> Use this to drop a Heir of the Wilds. Another thing I was thinking about is that the dragons aren't aligned with the clans while they are alive. They are vicious beasts that kill the clan members on sight as food. It just seems like if Dragons is supposed to play totally different and shows an "alternative" to the development that lead to clans taking up wedge colors, condensing down to the base color would be the most obvious "alternative universe" that plays totally different. In FTF, the cards seem to be monocolor based, but support also support proto-wedges where you don't really have to play full-wedge colors to take advantage of them. Luckily we don't have to wait that long to figure it out. Like I said, I was wrong about Ghostfire Blade - I really though it was a seed for colorless cards associated with Ugin, and it turned out to literally just be a limited card to attach to your morphs. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:I was sort of wondering if DTK might just have straight Morph again. The Maro article said it has its own Morph-like mechanic that is neither Morph nor Manifest. e: or at least a sufficient "twist on Morph" that's different enough to count as a new mechanic for set complexity purposes. Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
What if the future version of manifest is playing our trap cards and spell cards facedown?!?!
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:50
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Canopy Dragon. Owned by toshimo! After the discussion about the egg I thought it was clear we were excluding creatures that gained flying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Looking at things we know from Fate Reforged and the FNM promos, etc: -FRF has mechanics from Khans and from Dragons split between it: Prowess, Delve and Ferocious vs. Bolster & Dash -The five dragon broods have modified versions of the clan emblems and are allied color pairs. -The FNM version of Hordeling Outburst refers to them as "Kolaghan goblins" not Mardu, etc -The FNM Disdainful Stroke has a UB(?) dragon ruining up a banner with the Draco-Abzan symbol on it. -The FRF basic lands have two lands per clan. Mardu - RW, Temur - UG, Jeskai - UR, Sultai - BG, Abzan - WB Because we don't know specifically the dragon/clan relation or what the clans are going to look like in the future it kind of throws a wild card into the pile. We could get allied colored clans under the dragons, we could get enemy clans vs. allied dragons. We could get shards. Who knows. It is a mystery.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 20:52
|
|
|
Majik Ninja posted:What if the future version of manifest is playing our trap cards and spell cards facedown?!?! Future Manifest doesn't let you turn up creatures, it lets you turn up instants and sorceries somehow. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
At this point, I think that the five clans will not exist in Dragons of Tarkir, instead the five clans will be named after the dragons themselves. You can start to see this a bit in the green uncommon dragon's flavor text, and the fact that the alternate art Disdainful Stroke seems to have the Draco-abzan banner. The five dragons are likely going to be the "kahns" of the clans in DTK and I wouldn't be surprised to see newer, mythic versions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:19
|
|
|
Majik Ninja posted:What if the future version of manifest is playing our trap cards and spell cards facedown?!?! Isn't that was yu gi oh does?
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:22
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:Another thing I was thinking about is that the dragons aren't aligned with the clans while they are alive. They are vicious beasts that kill the clan members on sight as food. For me the Clans and their conflict/worship dichotomy and colour identity with the Dragons is really interesting, and my current interpretation of it, along with the hints in spoilers so far, is what leads me to think its Allied Clans with their Dragon. The clans in the past are developing in one of two directions; their Khans or Dragons identity. We know in Khans they end up wedge. We don't know yet for Dragons. We also know the Dragons themselves are allied pairs. In the past the Clans were at conflict with the dragons, even though they shared part of their colour identity, but yet they also worship them. This is because they embody something the clan values (their allied coloured element) and yet something exists about the clan that is in conflict with that value in a way (their third colour identity). The Mardu for example worship the dragon's speed, and Red Black is something of an individualistic, ruthless and brutal colour pair; the Mardu are certainly this, but yet they also try to be something of a unified community, or White. Something is going to have to happen where the Clans and the Dragons come to live in unity with each other, at least along the lines of the same coloured factions with their respective dragons, since we've seen the spoiler image for DTK that shows the Abzan/Dromoka Brood and Mardu/Kholaghan Brood fighting. Whatever that is I think it'll lead to either the Clans dropping the element of them that leads them to conflict with the Dragons, or the Dragons adopting that element. So either the Clans likely have to become Allied paired only, or the Dragons have to be Wedge tricoloured. The third option is to have both become mono coloured (total singular unity in purpose) Given the hints from how we've seen hybrid mana employed I think Allied paired is a strong given, since we know its so the set can be drafted with Khans or Dragons and those cards would be weaker in a single coloured deck, and they're supposed to be representative of a clan (for a flavour meets gameplay purpose, limited is where you're meant to be able to play "Dimir, or Abzan" as a deck both mechanically and flavour-fully, and it be somewhat competitive). I've been hoping for the Wedge Dragons and we don't know for certain yet, but I think for now its just the safe bet we will see the Clans and Dragons unified as Allied Colours. Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:22
|
|
|
Chorocojo posted:We could get shards. Who knows. It is a mystery. My speculation is on this. We got wedges for KTK, time fuckery happened in FRF, and instead of enemies, we get allies. Can work with their whole "The core colour in the Clans is not the mutual enemy, it's the one with one enemy and one ally" thing that they spoke about with Khans too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Dragon cycle is cool but I kind of wished they looked more in line with the Asian theme and not just generic fantasy dragons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:39
|
|
|
dragons are popular not asian dragons
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:41
|
|
|
RME posted:dragons are popular not asian dragons Tell that poo poo to Shenron
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 21:52
|
|
|
It's super not going to happen, but it'd be funny if all the humans were dead in Dragons of Tarkir. Doubly so if it has enemy fetchlands that reference the dead people in the flavor text.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:02
|
|
|
whydirt posted:It's super not going to happen, but it'd be funny if all the humans were dead in Dragons of Tarkir. Doubly so if it has enemy fetchlands that reference the dead people in the flavor text. Where humans once roamed, Dragons rage. Rimusutera posted:For me the Clans and their conflict/worship dichotomy and colour identity with the Dragons is really interesting, and my current interpretation of it, along with the hints in spoilers so far, is what leads me to think its Allied Clans with their Dragon. This is an interesting thought, but I'm not sure there's really enough in Fate Reforged to go on to believe shards, monocolor or anything to be a particularly safe bet. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
whydirt posted:It's super not going to happen, but it'd be funny if all the humans were dead in Dragons of Tarkir. Doubly so if it has enemy fetchlands that reference the dead people in the flavor text. Instead you get Dragon Narset, Dragon Zurgo, Dragon Anafenza eating two goats... Double Dragon Ugin
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:11
|
|
|
dragon enthusiast posted:Instead you get Dragon Narset, Dragon Zurgo, Dragon Anafenza eating two goats... Double Dragon Ugin Nah...
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:13
|
|
|
dragon enthusiast posted:Instead you get Dragon Narset, Dragon Zurgo, Dragon Anafenza eating two goats... Double Dragon Ugin Billy Ugin and Jimmy Ugin?
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:14
|
|
|
Angry Grimace posted:Billy Ugin and Jimmy Ugin? Bimmy Ugin They could always bring back hybrid mana in casting costs for DTK. Maybe mix-and-match hybrid mana symbols so you can get a two casting cost card that requires {W/R}{B/R} to cast or whatever. That way it can still do wedges but not hard-locked to "exactly one of each mana". I dunno, is that something they've done with hybrid mana yet? Comedy option: Hybrid mana that's three colors rather than two, so you get a one mana spell that costs {W/B/R}
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:24
|
|
|
whydirt posted:It's super not going to happen, but it'd be funny if all the humans were dead in Dragons of Tarkir. Doubly so if it has enemy fetchlands that reference the dead people in the flavor text. I think there's actually a decent chance that humanoids end up subservient to dragons as Sarkhan goes, "wait, this isn't what I wanted"
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:25
|
|
|
Mercury Crusader posted:Bimmy Ugin THANK you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:25
|
|
|
Elyv posted:I think there's actually a decent chance that humanoids end up subservient to dragons as Sarkhan goes, "wait, this isn't what I wanted" Well, WotC's precedent is that third sets with Dragon in the name actually have no dragons, so anything is possible!
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:27
|
|
|
Elyv posted:I think there's actually a decent chance that humanoids end up subservient to dragons as Sarkhan goes, "wait, this isn't what I wanted" It actually looks like (given some of the choice cards represent one choice that leads to "Kahns" Tarkir and the other leads to "Dragons" Tarkir that what happens when Sarkhan saves Ugin is that the dragons end up killing the past kahns and take over the clan leadership, reshaping them into entirely new clans in Dragons of Tarkir. I'm kind of excited for that set and we're not even done with spoilers for Fate Reforged.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:29
|
|
|
Ableist Kinkshamer posted:Why is this anorexic guy a 4/5 Similarly to Emara Tandris, I assume the answer is 'he's a 1/1 riding a 3/4 throne'. A man in a tank is a 1/1, but that tank is a Juggernaut, so a guy in a tank is a Craw Wurm. That said, a 6 mana 4/5 with delve is getting somewhere... This guy can easily be a turn 3 or 4 play. Mercury Crusader posted:Comedy option: Hybrid mana that's three colors rather than two, so you get a one mana spell that costs {W/B/R} If a card costs (1) and has the text "spend only white red or black mana to cast This Mardu Jerk" then could you pay alternate/extra costs? e.g. Lodestone Golem's 1 mana tax would mean you still had to spend some combination of WRB mana on him? e.g.2 Chorus of the conclave's ability doesn't function since that extra cost is not White Red or Black mana Gensuki fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:35
|
|
|
Gensuki posted:Similarly to Emara Tandris, I assume the answer is 'he's a 1/1 riding a 3/4 throne'. He reminds me of the blue Mage in the 2/1 cycle from M12.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 22:40
|
|
|
Based on the basic lands spoiled today for FRF, it looks like each Khan's color identity are its main color + the main color's enemy color (mardu = rw, abzan = bw, etc). Similarly, the set of 2 color spells at common spoiled on LR are all enemy colors and correspond to the respective khan the same way as the basic lands. Maybe in Dragons of Tarkir, the khans will be enemy color pairs and the dragons will be allied colors. TicalStal fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 23:22
|
|
|
That common dragon
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
So the common dragon is a generally worse Lava Axe? That's disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 23:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:01 |
|
|
But for 9 mana you can maybe draw 5 cards with Fruit of the First Tree! edit: Not even! Because he doesn't die!
|
|
#
?
Jan 5, 2015 23:36
|
|
