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MassRafTer posted:I am embarrassed to post this not because I was a big enough Sting fan when I was 14 that I made this for an art class but because it is really bad and I got so much better later on and took AP art classes. Unfortunately I never painted Sting in oils or even acrylic. Oh my.
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Jan 4, 2015 03:31
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Someone asked Jim Cornette on his podcast today how close Flair was to jumping when he was on the outs with Bischoff. He said at one point Flair was driving in circles around the Greensboro Coliseum on the phone with him and his lawyer negotiating (for legal reasons Vince couldn't talk to him or it was tampering) him debuting on a PPV that night (Unforgiven: IYH) with Reid. He said Ric's lawyer talked him out of it. 
Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 00:45
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Luigi Thirty posted:Someone asked Jim Cornette on his podcast today how close Flair was to jumping when he was on the outs with Bischoff. He said at one point Flair was driving in circles around the Greensboro Coliseum on the phone with him and his lawyer negotiating (for legal reasons Vince couldn't talk to him or it was tampering) him debuting on a PPV that night with Reid. He said Ric's lawyer talked him out of it. When was this (1998?) and what does the bolded statement mean?
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Jan 7, 2015 00:48
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:When was this (1998?) and what does the bolded statement mean? It means that Flair was outside the building the night of Unforgiven 98 about to debut. At the time Flair was wrapped up in litigation with WCW thanks to Bischoff being a petty moron.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:51
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Abrasive Obelisk posted:When was this (1998?) and what does the bolded statement mean? He was in his car, with Reid Flair, a few hours before Unforgiven on the phone with Corny and his lawyer negotiating his jump.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:51
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Austin was in a stop-gap program with Dude Love at the time. It's easy to see Flair running in in the main event to set up the rematch and then a program with Flair, which considering how hot they were then would have done gang busters.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:55
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MassRafTer posted:It means that Flair was outside the building the night of Unforgiven 98 about to debut. At the time Flair was wrapped up in litigation with WCW thanks to Bischoff being a petty moron. Luigi Thirty posted:He was in his car, with Reid Flair, a few hours before Unforgiven on the phone with Corny and his lawyer negotiating his jump. Thanks! I didn't know none of that.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:57
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Last week was a great Nitro and there's some cool matches tonight too! Chris Benoit challenges Booker T for the TV title! US Champion DDP challenges Sting for the World title! Macho Man vs Roddy Piper RENEGADE VS GOLDBERG Hogan and Nash vs Giant Chris Jericho vs Lenny Lane Eddy Guerrero vs Kaz Hayashi AND SO MUCH MORE! Tune in at 7:30 for NECW and 8 PM for Nitro! http://www.psp-tv.com/r/BadMoviesWorseWrestling
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Jan 7, 2015 01:31
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Good god could you imagine the pop if flair walked in there in 1998. All he would have had to do was stand at the ramp to close out the show after the match and people would have been screaming for an hour straight. I hope he chopped his lawyer and fired him like a year later when it was clear what was going to happen to both companies.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:13
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The American Dream posted:Good god could you imagine the pop if flair walked in there in 1998. All he would have had to do was stand at the ramp to close out the show after the match and people would have been screaming for an hour straight. I hope he chopped his lawyer and fired him like a year later when it was clear what was going to happen to both companies. He was still a decent worker at that point too. Imagine how it would have changed the Monday Night Wars - WCW might have panicked and went into meltdown mode a few years earlier. Goldberg probably would have got World Title sooner than August.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:42
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The American Dream posted:Good god could you imagine the pop if flair walked in there in 1998. All he would have had to do was stand at the ramp to close out the show after the match and people would have been screaming for an hour straight. I hope he chopped his lawyer and fired him like a year later when it was clear what was going to happen to both companies. Well if Ric was tied up in litigation with Bischoff it may not have been possible at that point. He wasn't even supposed to be talking with them, he had to use Cornette to skirt tampering.
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Jan 7, 2015 09:23
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Luigi Thirty posted:Well if Ric was tied up in litigation with Bischoff it may not have been possible at that point. He wasn't even supposed to be talking with them, he had to use Cornette to skirt tampering. It's funny how lax both sides were with contract tampering. There were lawsuits flying every which way and despite some really obvious cases of tampering (like Flair talking to Cornette or some other similar arrangements) it never really amounted to anything. I guess both sides figured it was a cost of doing business. ECW did go after WCW for that in the cases of Raven and Stevie Richards but I think that was one case they didn't win. (It seems like this is where Shane Douglas got the idea they were close to landing a match with Flair, Heyman wanted a Flair match as a settlement for some contract issue but it was never going to happen.)
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Jan 7, 2015 11:17
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MassRafTer posted:It means that Flair was outside the building the night of Unforgiven 98 about to debut. At the time Flair was wrapped up in litigation with WCW thanks to Bischoff being a petty moron. WWF Corporate Champion Ric Flair would have been amazing.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:27
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Was 1998 when Bischoff went nuclear over Flair telling him well in advance that he was going to be at some event for one of his kids, or was that Another Time WCW Despised Ric Flair?
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Jan 7, 2015 15:28
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MassRafTer posted:It's funny how lax both sides were with contract tampering. There were lawsuits flying every which way and despite some really obvious cases of tampering (like Flair talking to Cornette or some other similar arrangements) it never really amounted to anything. I guess both sides figured it was a cost of doing business. ECW did go after WCW for that in the cases of Raven and Stevie Richards but I think that was one case they didn't win. (It seems like this is where Shane Douglas got the idea they were close to landing a match with Flair, Heyman wanted a Flair match as a settlement for some contract issue but it was never going to happen.) I remember reading it was supposed to be a 3 match series where Flair would win the first one on an ECW PPV, Douglas would beat him on WCW TV, and the blowoff would take place at another ECW PPV. Grain of salt and all that.
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Jan 7, 2015 15:47
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Red posted:WWF Corporate Champion Ric Flair would have been amazing. This would have been awesome. I can't think of a better choice. Maybe DiBiase, but he was retired by this point.
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Jan 7, 2015 16:42
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A Flair / Austin program in 1998 would have made for some weird but wonderful matches.
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Jan 7, 2015 16:44
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St Evan Echoes posted:A Flair / Austin program in 1998 would have made for some weird but wonderful matches. The only potential downside is that Flair might've gotten sympathy heat for his treatment in WCW.
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Jan 7, 2015 17:03
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Great White Hope posted:Was 1998 when Bischoff went nuclear over Flair telling him well in advance that he was going to be at some event for one of his kids, or was that Another Time WCW Despised Ric Flair?
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Jan 7, 2015 17:35
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Market research WCW commissioned in 2000 has leaked online for some reason: http://www.scribd.com/doc/252075712/WCW-Personality-Familiarity-and-Likeability-Ratings-April-2000 Turns out people liked watching scantily clad women a lot more than that awful wrestling stuff
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Jan 9, 2015 17:18
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dsriggs posted:Market research WCW commissioned in 2000 has leaked online for some reason: The Stro was literally the most disliked man in WCW.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:24
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dsriggs posted:Market research WCW commissioned in 2000 has leaked online for some reason: In 2000? I could totally believe that. People forget how raunchy the late 90's/early 2000's were. That was the height of Jerry Springer's popularity and a large reason why wrestling was so huge back then.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:24
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flashy_mcflash posted:In 2000? I could totally believe that. People forget how raunchy the late 90's/early 2000's were. That was the height of Jerry Springer's popularity and a large reason why wrestling was so huge back then. I remember ads for best of Jerry Springer tapes, and I'm pretty sure the premise was "the raunchy poo poo we couldn't get away with not censoring on daytime TV". And I'm fairly sure at leats a couple times, those ads were aired during RAW or Nitro.
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Jan 9, 2015 17:26
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More people liked Norman Smiley than Hulk Hogan.  ***EDIT*** As well he should have! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI1bJd6y3W0 Arbite fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 18:22
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Norman Smiley ruled 
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Jan 9, 2015 18:28
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Norman Smiley was WCW's true franchise star.
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Jan 9, 2015 18:29
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Was this after the radicals left. Were they on the survey? What was ric flairs number? Must have been pretty low since he never drew a dime in his life
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Jan 9, 2015 19:26
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The American Dream posted:What was ric flairs number? Must have been pretty low since he never drew a dime in his life Liked a Lot - 35% Liked a Little - 20% Neither Like or Dislike - 8% Disliked a Little - 10% Disliked a Lot - 26% Anyway, the obvious problem with these surveys is that you can read anything you want into them. Say a heel has a high Dislike A Lot score, are they disliked because you've booked them as an effective heel? Or are the fans tired of them? And if a heel has a higher than expected Liked a Lot score, is it because you failed to book them properly as a heel, or do people naturally like them so much you should consider turning them? You don't know for sure either way.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:32
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What's the story about Flair going to the WWF in 1998? And ECW? I've never heard any of this! And how was Flair treated unfairly by WCW? I always thought Flair and Sting were the two ultimate WCW guys and were the most protected of all, except maybe for Hogan.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:33
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The American Dream posted:Was this after the radicals left. Were they on the survey? What was ric flairs number? Must have been pretty low since he never drew a dime in his life If it helps, this survey omits T from Booker T, which I assume is when he was feuding with Ahmed/Stevie.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:35
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Rad R. posted:What's the story about Flair going to the WWF in 1998? And ECW? I've never heard any of this! And how was Flair treated unfairly by WCW? I always thought Flair and Sting were the two ultimate WCW guys and were the most protected of all, except maybe for Hogan. Flair asked for time off to see his son Reid in a wrestling tournament. This was apparently OK'd by the office, but for some reason Bischoff didn't know about it. Bischoff booked Ric for the time he asked off & Ric refused to show, so he was suspended.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:35
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dsriggs posted:Liked a Lot - 35% They go into this in the preamble, and good heels tend to have both high Liked and Disliked scores like Flair does, but it's still pretty ambiguous.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:38
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He was never going to ECW, that was a fever dream of Heyman after he won court case #5753278643227 against WCW and got another appearance of someone at an ECW show.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:42
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Holy loving poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2apEfq2cFBw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSM6NhhLTNk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFvZ85kn_s This fuckin' guy did terrible PSA commercials when I was in middle school. He's now a classic rock DJ named Uncle Vito.
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Jan 10, 2015 00:53
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Rad R. posted:And how was Flair treated unfairly by WCW? I always thought Flair and Sting were the two ultimate WCW guys and were the most protected of all, except maybe for Hogan. Flair was the head booker in 89-90, and the shows he booked were a boon to the company after a slump. But he got forced out because corporate thought he wasn't turning the company around fast enough, and also because he wanted to pass the title to Sting instead of Luger. When Jim Herd was in charge, he wanted Flair gone because he thought he was too old and too expensive. He also wanted him to cut his hair and change his name to Spartacus. Flair was instrumental in getting Hogan into the company, and I believe he started off on good terms with Bischoff because of that. But once Bischoff, Hogan, and Nash formed a triumvirate, Flair was hosed. They wrote the nWo like a little kid would write his favourite comic book, with the nWo winning everything all the time and WCW getting humiliated, so as the face of WCW, that meant one humiliating angle after another for Flair. He was constantly booked to lose and buried in promos, his matches were moved down the card, they literally punished fans for liking him more than they liked the nWo by writing him off TV. After he came back in 1998 he had to go through crap like a fake heart attack angle, jobbing to Eric Bischoff, being beaten up and left for dead in a field somewhere, being committed in a mental asylum by David Flair, and the list goes on. They did a lot of this poo poo in Charlotte, too. It's actually amazing how badly they treated Flair in his hometown, and for how long, before they finally killed the Charlotte territory dead. Regarding the whole thing with Flair missing a show to see Reid wrestle, remember that by this point WCW's creative had collapsed to the level where they were literally writing later segments for a show while it was on the air. Not only had he given months of advance notice, they didn't try to book him for that show until 3 days prior.
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Jan 10, 2015 06:31
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I think the biggest takeaway from Death of WCW is how much effort they put into either squandering Flair or actively driving him off and one wonders if they had just correctly exploited his talent and popularity how many of their other issues they would have been able to cruise past.
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Jan 10, 2015 06:36
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What I take away most from that survey is that for some reason, Ron Harris has a familiarity score of 82, but Don Harris only has a score of 75, But the Harris Boys together have a familiarity score of 94.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:27
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epitasis posted:I think the biggest takeaway from Death of WCW is how much effort they put into either squandering Flair or actively driving him off and one wonders if they had just correctly exploited his talent and popularity how many of their other issues they would have been able to cruise past. Maybe they make a little more money from 96-98.
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Jan 10, 2015 07:45
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Halloween Jack posted:It's a testament to how much Flair is synonymous with wrestling itself that he is remembered, to some degree, as Mr. WCW despite how the tempestuous relationship he had with the company through two decades and multiple administrations. One more thing: Flair had in fact, secured that day off to go see Reid. I wanna say Terry Taylor confirmed it on a shoot or somesuch. Bischoff is literally so petty he'd start a legal battle over his own incompetence.
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Jan 10, 2015 17:55
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Halloween Jack posted:Flair was instrumental in getting Hogan into the company, and I believe he started off on good terms with Bischoff because of that. But once Bischoff, Hogan, and Nash formed a triumvirate, Flair was hosed. They wrote the nWo like a little kid would write his favourite comic book, with the nWo winning everything all the time and WCW getting humiliated, so as the face of WCW, that meant one humiliating angle after another for Flair. He was constantly booked to lose and buried in promos, his matches were moved down the card, they literally punished fans for liking him more than they liked the nWo by writing him off TV. After he came back in 1998 he had to go through crap like a fake heart attack angle, jobbing to Eric Bischoff, being beaten up and left for dead in a field somewhere, being committed in a mental asylum by David Flair, and the list goes on. They did a lot of this poo poo in Charlotte, too. It's actually amazing how badly they treated Flair in his hometown, and for how long, before they finally killed the Charlotte territory dead. I agree with most of this, but the idea that the NWO won everything all the time isn't really true. It's just that it wasn't ever Hogan (and, to a lesser extent, Nash), that was made to look weak. Savage and Hall spend 1997-98 making their opponents look great every night. Scott Hall loses matches to Hector Garza and 1997 Chris Jericho and takes every fall in those fake-out Steiner brother wins, making Scott Steiner look like a star, while Savage pretty much single-handedly makes DDP a credible name and cleanly puts over Luger and the Giant on TV and on PPV.
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Jan 10, 2015 18:20
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