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Speaking of Chinese, how many of you warriors against Islam are picturing a Han Chinese in a white cap? The answer is none of you.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I know plenty of nice republicans, please stop assuming they all share beliefs consistent with their party platform. This, but unironically
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Jan 7, 2015 20:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:I know plenty of nice republicans, please stop assuming they all share beliefs consistent with their party platform. This, but unironically
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Jan 7, 2015 20:01
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Please explain how, since all you did was throw race in as well, and essentially link race, political ideology, and religion into one thing. I actually said that religion and race were closely related and political ideology wasn't, please pay attention. WoodrowSkillson posted:China, mostly white. China is not atheist under any definition but "doesn't follow a religion started west of Tibet".
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Jan 7, 2015 20:01
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David Corbett posted:With the notable exception of Ismaili Muslims, who do follow a single Imam, the Aga Khan. But that's a minority within a minority. Sunni Islam (and the perpetrators of today's attacks, if Muslim, are Ismailis are Shi'ites though, and in general Shia Islam has always been much more hierarchical than Sunni Islam with Iran even having a complex organization of Islamic clerics headed by the Grand Ayatollah, so I guess I should have said that "There's no Pope in Sunni Islam". No real clerics among Sunnis. If you have studied Islamic theology or law and have people (or a state) who recognize your learning then you have religious authority, if usually only limited to a neighborhood, country or a sect. Barrakketh posted:There is. His name is Caliph Ibrahim and he's holed up somewhere between Mosul and Ar-Raqqa. Except the Caliph is not the same as the Pope. The Caliph has never (at least not since the first 5 or so) been a true spiritual leader, in that he issues religious commandments and formulates doctrine and such, and if he did it was usually through his chief qadi or other ulema supporting him. If anything I'd compare the Caliph with the Christian Roman Emperors and early medieval European kings, and also note that that the title was mostly no longer recognized as anything other than symbolic from the 10th century onwards. Also, I'd hazard a guess that the number of Muslims who swear fealty to the ISIS Caliph are pretty few in number. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 20:03
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computer parts posted:I actually said that religion and race were closely related and political ideology wasn't, please pay attention. http://www.winmr.com/web/files/news/14/file/14.pdf
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Jan 7, 2015 20:04
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slogsdon posted:white people kill over important poo poo like the amount of melatonin in your skin being too high I just don't understand why cartoonists that no one in the west even notices and Jews outside of Israel who are minding their own business are targeted, meanwhile openly racist islamophobist groups are ignored. Or maybe there is truth to the idea that secularism and freedom of speech hold more of a threat to their beliefs than racist Christians in some stupid religion/immigration war.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:07
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their sample for China is an online poll.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:07
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computer parts posted:their sample for China is an online poll. So like you were saying all atheist are white.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:09
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computer parts posted:I actually said that religion and race were closely related and political ideology wasn't, please pay attention. Only you can leave a religion, not a race, insofar as race is commonly understood. Also race carries with it no inherent values, morals, or any other qualities beyond superficial physical ones. A person is not predisposed to anything besides sickle cell or tay-sachs. Yet I can go to Lowell Michigan, find a random person who was born in the area, and there is a drat good chance they are republican, and have been since they were old enough to know what it was.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:09
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computer parts posted:China is not atheist under any definition but "doesn't follow a religion started west of Tibet". I don't really get what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to suggest that westerners assume that China is irreligious because we just don't understand their religions? Because racism? Most of China is irreligious, and the majority of religious people follow traditional Chinese religious beliefs which range from Ancestor worship to Confucianism to Taoism and all the varying forms of those. And thatcan vary from village to village. That's why it's hard to measure. Not because racism. You dipshit.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:09
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ronniegardocki posted:lol muslims kill people over the stupidest poo poo The Iraq War has, in retrospect, no material strategic justification whatsoever. Unjustified murderousness is agnostic.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:09
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Willie Tomg posted:The Iraq War has, in retrospect, no material strategic justification whatsoever. Unjustified murderousness is agnostic. Ugh stop with the false equivalencies please.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:10
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DutchDupe posted:To be fair to the guy you responded to, he said the "world" isn't facing a problem of extremist Buddhists and Hindus. While they definitely exist, when was the last time an extremist Buddhist conducted a terror attack outside of Myanmar? The essence isn't complete horseshit because the types of extremism are different. To me, the essence was the proposition that Islam among religions is uniquely violent in a way that produces terrorism. That isn't subtext, it's the thesis of his post. The vast majority of Islamist violence is not international. Their victims are predominately Muslims and non-Muslims living in those states. Islamists will never topple France - Islamists in the Middle East could very well topple governments in the region. When we talk about terrorism, the vast majority of the time, we're talking about regional violence. If the argument is that Islam is somehow textually, scripturally oriented to making international terrorist attacks, that's a weird, difficult argument to make, and not the argument I think he was making. I think he was pretty clearly arguing that Islam is inherently, generally violent. Yes, technically Buddhist never "behead children" either, they beat them to death with clubs or stab them with swords. Yes technically Hindus don't "bomb nightclubs", they bomb mosques. That's why I said essence. I think it's pretty obvious that the reason the west is seeing international terrorism from the Middle East is because of the historical relationship between those countries in the west. There's a reason that Al-Qaeda attacks Europe or the US, and not Panama or North Korea. It's not because the western countries necessarily "deserve it", but it's silly to pretend that the reason that Osama bin Laden planned the 9/11 attack against the United States is because Mohammed said some things over a thousand years ago. Whatever you think of Mohammed, he didn't have very much to say about the United States of America or France. These situations are modern situations, arising from modern politics, because Islamism is a political movement.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:12
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Only you can leave a religion, not a race, insofar as race is commonly understood. Also race carries with it no inherent values, morals, or any other qualities beyond superficial physical ones. A person is not predisposed to anything besides sickle cell or tay-sachs. Only in the American sense of "race". Again, if you're a Basque you're one race in the US and a very different one in Spain. NomChompsky posted:I don't really get what you're trying to do here. Are you trying to suggest that westerners assume that China is irreligious because we just don't understand their religions? Because racism? Most of China is irreligious, and the majority of religious people follow traditional Chinese religious beliefs which range from Ancestor worship to Confucianism to Taoism and all the varying forms of those. And thatcan vary from village to village. That's why it's hard to measure. Not because racism. I'll be fair, it's also the official government policy to say that they're atheist. But that doesn't mean they are.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:14
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SedanChair posted:Speaking of Chinese, how many of you warriors against Islam are picturing a Han Chinese in a white cap? The answer is none of you. I'm a racist because when I think of Muslim terrorists in a Western context, I only picture the Muslim terrorists who actually attacked us.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:15
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Willie Tomg posted:The Iraq War has, in retrospect, no material strategic justification whatsoever. Unjustified murderousness is agnostic.   Marine removed from duty over Bible coin reports e: unlimited shrimp posted:I'm a racist because when I think of Muslim terrorists in a Western context, I only picture the Muslim terrorists who actually attacked us. Thanks for admitting, at long last, that you are not profiling Muslims, you're profiling Arabs.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:16
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If it is true the alleged fatwa came from Iraq, that really puts a spin on this where it is hard for me to get all huffy about crazy muslims.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:18
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oswald ownenstein posted:Ugh stop with the false equivalencies please. You're right, Islamic terrorism has discernible motivations for clear political reasons and even measured in aggregate are nowhere near as harmful as that particular military intervention taken alone. I apologize for the hyperbole.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:19
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Arkane posted:Please. Buddhists aren't killing people because of Buddha. Hindus aren't raping people because of Shiva. Bad people exist all over the world, no doubt about it. I am not trying to defend evil acts. The world can be a bad place. Muslim extremists overwhelmingly and centrally justify their actions by reference to western policy in the Middle East. This is not credibly arguable. Even when they do use religious rhetoric or quotations such as the necessity or acceptability of jihad, it is in the context of jihad being necessary because of the oppression of Muslims.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:20
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computer parts posted:Only in the American sense of "race". Again, if you're a Basque you're one race in the US and a very different one in Spain. Yes, social perceptions of race change, because race is a social construct that has no inherent traits. Unlike religions and political parties that have established values and cultures that are mostly consistent throughout their memberships.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:20
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Omi-Polari posted:This is a pretty good read on Islam and the Islamic State. It's a bit long so I'd just bookmark it and come back later, if I were you: This was a really good read and I think that we are in dire need of an historical perspective to grasp why stuff like this is happening, instead of reducing everything to some posited essence of Islam/Christianity/what have you. Star fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 20:20
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You do realize that whole pork eating crusader patch thing is purchased on their own and put on their uniform by soldiers who choose to because they're shitheads, right? It's not like, a unit, or anything.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:21
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Periodiko posted:Whatever you think of Mohammed, he didn't have very much to say about the United States of America or France. He had plenty to say about infidels and how they should be oppressed or killed, though? That seems more than a little bit relevant.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:21
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Yes, social perceptions of race change, because race is a social construct that has no inherent traits. Unlike religions and political parties that have established values and cultures that are mostly consistent throughout their memberships. A Catholic in Boston is a Christian. A Catholic in Alabama is not.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:22
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NomChompsky posted:The IRA may not have described themselves as fundamentalist, but their entire goal was the absorption of Northern Ireland into the Republic. The Republic of Ireland during the troubles was a loving Catholic theocracy in all but name. Point out a single institution that didn't have the Church woven into the fabric of it and I'll give you a cookie. The IRA also wanted to overthrow the government of the Republic of Ireland by force of arms and refused to participate in electoral politics in the ROI, they didn't want to integrate Northern Ireland into the existing Republic necessarily but wanted to establish a new republic encompassing the entirety of Ireland, - the religiosity of the ROI shouldn't be taken as a measure of the religiosity of the IRA as a whole. In saying that though there were several members of the IRA who wanted to give religion a central place in Irish society, the Provisionals (who are usually the group people talk about when they mean the IRA) split with the official IRA over the issue of participating in Irish elections (the Provisionals opposed this) as well as the increasingly hostile environment in the Official IRA to religion motivated by a swing to more orthodox Marxist views that alienated traditionalist Irish Republicans.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:22
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Most Muslims see this sort of thing, cross their fingers and chant "please don't let the perps be muslims."
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Jan 7, 2015 20:22
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NomChompsky posted:You do realize that whole pork eating crusader patch thing is purchased on their own and put on their uniform by soldiers who choose to because they're shitheads, right? It's not like, a unit, or anything. What is the distinction.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:22
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adocious posted:He had plenty to say about infidels and how they should be oppressed or killed, though? That seems more than a little bit relevant. Yeah, such as ____________________________________________ and ___________________________________________. Powerful stuff.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:23
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Periodiko posted:
holy poo poo your mental gymnastic skills are impressive.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:23
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euphronius posted:What is the distinction. Nobody issued those to them and made them sew them on their uniforms.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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computer parts posted:A Catholic in Boston is a Christian. And a republican in new hamphire thought obamacare was a great idea, but the republicans in the south did not. Yet a black man is black in both places, crazy huh.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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oswald ownenstein posted:Ugh stop with the false equivalencies please. Five Hundred Thousand dead in Iraq as a result of a US invasion that was ultimately at best foolhardy and based on false intelligence, and at worst either a spiteful slap at someone George W. Bush personally disliked, or a grab for oil and strategic position in the Middle East. The fact that the US is the big boy in the playground is the only reason that islamic acts are terrorism and our attacks are 'interventions' or 'warfare'. The US literally defines the terms by virtue of being the biggest swinging dick around, the same way we redefined people who shoot at us in a combat zone as unlawful combatants and torture as enhanced interrogation.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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NomChompsky posted:Nobody issued those to them and made them sew them on their uniforms. and so? They are wearing them, no?
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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adocious posted:He had plenty to say about infidels and how they should be oppressed or killed, though? That seems more than a little bit relevant. Jesus quite clearly said he is the only way to heaven so we must convert the rest of the world to save their souls.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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oswald ownenstein posted:holy poo poo What are you even objecting to.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:25
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WoodrowSkillson posted:And a republican in new hamphire thought obamacare was a great idea, but the republicans in the south did not. Yet a black man is black in both places, crazy huh. Wasn't your original point that political parties followed the same platform no matter what?
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Jan 7, 2015 20:25
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NomChompsky posted:You do realize that whole pork eating crusader patch thing is purchased on their own and put on their uniform by soldiers who choose to because they're shitheads, right? It's not like, a unit, or anything. Yes, obviously. It is a morale patch, like these:  But it's tolerated. And military commanders have a hell of a lot more direct responsibility for their troops wearing it than "Islam" does for the actions of terrorists.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:25
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Arkane posted:Always mind boggling arkane.txt
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Jan 7, 2015 20:25
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SedanChair posted:There's nothing "moderate" Muslims can do to curb extremism, period. It's not in their power and it's not their job anyway. Every time a gay teenager kills themselves or an abortion clinic gets bombed I go and shout at the local Unitarians for not personally intervening. It allows me to feel smugly superior instead of like I'm yelling meaninglessly into the void. Forgall posted:Terrorist attacks are done by islamic conservatives. And yes, the world would be a much better place if we managed to get rid of the whole lot of you. Maybe the ideology started by greedy warmongering psychopaths is the problem? Josef K. Sourdust posted:The IRA are/were Irish nationalists. They have never advocated the forced conversion of anyone to Catholicism nor the murder of non-Catholics and were responsible for the murders of many Catholics in the security services and drug dealers and petty criminals who were Catholic. But what is it about Catholic culture that makes them capable of such barbaric acts? WoodrowSkillson posted:And a republican in new hamphire thought obamacare was a great idea, but the republicans in the south did not. Yet a black man is black in both places, crazy huh. They don't use the same term for a black man in both places though In New Hampshire they say African-American  .
Strawman fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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