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WMH's tournament scenarios make deployment A Big Deal.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:23
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:25 |
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Thirsty Dog posted:WMH's tournament scenarios make deployment A Big Deal. Really? Skimish games always seem to allow stuff to get away much more easily in a way that games with block formations and more stringent movement restrictions just don't. I'm not a Warmachine expert by any means, but didn't the scenario rules just do stuff to draw people in closer to each other, i.e. the muddle in the middle stuff that lots of skirmish games have going on? I remember something about some sort of constant shrinking box or similar.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:51
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rkajdi posted:Really? Skimish games always seem to allow stuff to get away much more easily in a way that games with block formations and more stringent movement restrictions just don't. I'm not a Warmachine expert by any means, but didn't the scenario rules just do stuff to draw people in closer to each other, i.e. the muddle in the middle stuff that lots of skirmish games have going on? I remember something about some sort of constant shrinking box or similar. Sure, but with a smaller play area and terrain that can significantly inhibit movement and line of sight, having your own guys get jammed behind each other blocking each others shots/charge lanes is a thing you really need to watch out for. Plus, games can shift quickly enough that if you deploy a unit on the wrong part of the board it might just die or not be able to re-position fast enough to make up for bad deployment.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:55
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Killbox mostly means you can't afford to just sit back with your 'caster and not have to worry about getting decapitated. Not all the scenarios affect the game hugely, but many of them do require you to care about 2+ locations on the board from the start, and with jamming and board control being such a big deal, and so many units having rough matchups, you can totally be on the back foot from deployment. WMH also allows for more left-field movement shenanigans than most skirmish games I've played. Stuff coming from way downtown to murder key pieces / your commander is another core component of the game and there's a lot of placement and counter-placement that goes in to attempting/preventing that sort of play. Thirsty Dog fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 22:57
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I don't know, broken worlds / bubble worlds sound super awesome. As long as the new novels are set there, I am all for this change!
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Jan 7, 2015 23:15
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rkajdi posted:I just didn't see anything in there that really allowed you to chump people like fast cav redirecting, frenzy baiting, forced exposure of flanks due to wheels on contact, ect. The stuff that allows people who know how to play WFB seperate themselves from the dudes pushing trays around the table. I know expert play is derided in D&D, but for a wargame it's sort of the point. There's nothing more satisfying than having a dude with his shiny netlist run the porsche into a wall, or just find way to occupy and ignore the stupid deathstar all game and get the slim win with a much "worse" army. Though I guess very little of that is directly baked into the WFB rules, so KoW probably has a pile of emergent in play. Redirecting like this?  Works in the exact same way. Sure, sometimes the two 90 degree pivots might allow you to get around that on the charge, but not if the unit is too wide to pivot without landing on top of the redirecting unit. Frenzy just doesn't exist because there's no place for it in the game. I don't see it showing up in a lot of games and struggling to think of a single one outside of GW games where it is in there. I can't think of how it would even work without throwing up a whole bunch of FAQ questions on specific situations, since you don't declare charges at the start of the turn. Even so, if something similar was implemented then the exact same tactic would apply. Throw a cheap tarpit unit in front. Done. Forced exposure of flanks?  Whichever unit the red one chooses to charge, either U1 or U2, it will expose its flank to the other two. It can't charge U3 because the gap isn't big enough. Wheels on contact works in the exact same way. Once you hit a unit, you wheel to align with it. Can't align then you can't charge.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:19
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Do you have a warhammer army? Well then, your clenched rear end in a top hat wont help you anymore. Better start selling your models. I'm not even joking, fire sell that rulebook and soon to be outdated army while the market is good: Faeit212 quote:Let me give you some confirmation: Earlybird quote:factions : 
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Jan 7, 2015 23:31
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I want this all to come true so hard. But I just can't let myself believe it, because it would be too good.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:34
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It would be extremely GW to revive interest in your line only to murder it 6 months later.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:35
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The dark elf cold ones are literally the nicest models GW currently produces, bar none BETTER DELETE THEM FROM REALITY The second nicest is that big lizardman dinosaur thing
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Jan 7, 2015 23:36
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Daedleh posted:Redirecting like this? Awesome. Maybe I wasn't explained stuff very well when I saw demo games, but the thing that got me was that since units backed off once combat started, there wasn't a long term benefit to flank with a single unit, since the enemy would reform to face on its next turn instead of being stuck with the rear end in the wind while it got chewed up in melee. I'm not a fan of stuff that lets misdeployed stuff back into the game easily, since it just rewards sloppy play. Looks like that might not be as big a deal as I was worrying about. I don't care that the actual mechanics of the stuff you need to do are different, but everything I saw in the demo game was "run your toys into each other like a five year old", which really turned me off. Glad to hear that was just demo stupidty versus an actual issue with the game.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:40
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Lmbo at round bases
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Jan 7, 2015 23:41
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Its ok, the new edition will have special rules for 'unbroken' that allows you to take old models and proxy them in for the new ones!
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Jan 7, 2015 23:46
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Yessssss. Yessssss
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Jan 7, 2015 23:46
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haha sucks to be not-white humans, RIP dinosaurs
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Jan 7, 2015 23:53
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No way they're just getting rid of Lizardmen. They're not that stupid right
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Jan 7, 2015 23:54
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This stuff is amazing.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:57
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I am so very excited to read the warhammer thread in a few months.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:58
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Oh good, undead lose all their egyptian things, humans lose all their knights of the round table things, chaos use all their big gently caress you barbarians and demons, and elves lose basically everything that ever made them different than pointy eared humans with pretty gemstone fetishes. Good GW, this is good, kill the last thing I liked you had left, break any chains I had left.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:03
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I want this to be true SOOOO BAAAAAD!
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Jan 8, 2015 00:03
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Moola posted:I want this to be true SOOOO BAAAAAD! BULBASAUR posted:I am so very excited to read the warhammer thread in a few months.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:03
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"Lizards are gone in space." lol
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Jan 8, 2015 00:04
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BULBASAUR posted:I am so very excited to read the warhammer thread in a few months. Why wait? Juicy gossip is meant to be shared. 
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Jan 8, 2015 00:05
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Moola posted:"Lizards are gone in space." They literally got poochied out of the game. Maybe they will get kill by some warhammer 40k faction on the way to their home planet. Maybe it turns out the warhammer world was actually in the Slam Sector all along???
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Jan 8, 2015 00:06
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rkajdi posted:Awesome. Maybe I wasn't explained stuff very well when I saw demo games, but the thing that got me was that since units backed off once combat started, there wasn't a long term benefit to flank with a single unit, since the enemy would reform to face on its next turn instead of being stuck with the rear end in the wind while it got chewed up in melee. I'm not a fan of stuff that lets misdeployed stuff back into the game easily, since it just rewards sloppy play. Looks like that might not be as big a deal as I was worrying about. Yeah the rule of thumb for demos is always to dumb it down as much as possible and Let The Newbie Win. Charge redirection, screening etc aren't done in demos because it stops the other player from doing what they want to do which isn't fun for them. You'd see the same lack of tactics and "run your toys into each other like a five year old" for any game, including Warhammer, if it's being demo'd by someone non-groggy. You can reform to face a flanker if you survive since you can only charge a unit which is in your front arc - you're not locked in so don't get to attack back without charging them. However, flank charges are usually devastating and if you flank charged something and didn't wipe it out in one hit then you are either tactically distracting them or did something wrong. Charge cheap cav in the flank of a horde bearing down on you = massive damage. Horde then has to spend a turn chewing up your cav, and in order to do that it has to face your cav and expose its flank. If it decides to ignore the cav and charge something in front of it, then the cav is most likely lined up for a rear charge for triple attacks next turn. Charging a regiment of Ogres or Knights into a flank will kill nearly any unit in the game in a single hit (barring the 60 zombie endless swarm), so there's no-one left to face you. Anything smaller hitting a flank will kill nearly any regiment in a single hit, and do devastating damage to a horde. If you expose a flank, then you hosed up. We do need more battle reports up, especially from the more competitive players, if just to show off how tactical the game is at high levels of play. I find it's actually more tactical than WHFB because the simplicity of the mechanics means there's less special rules based shenanigans, let alone WHFBs atrocious magic phase, and it's all about the movement and positioning. kingcom posted:They literally got poochied out of the game. Coming new to 40k in September 2015: 
Daedleh fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 00:07
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quote:Nothing stops you from (and in many ways you are encouraged to) maintain unit formation the entire game. But you don't have to. Note that throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy, changing width/depth was an option, it's just rarely seen. Jesus loving christ. RIP Warhammer Fantasy.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:08
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The new warhammer setting is actually dune, because during the end times the Imperium of Man finds the planet and virus bombs it into sand
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Jan 8, 2015 00:12
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Malekith was right
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Jan 8, 2015 00:13
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what about the space knights that's all I want
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Jan 8, 2015 00:14
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I'm giggling like a child on a sugar high
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Jan 8, 2015 00:20
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It's legit great for me because I had Lizards and Ogres left and one of those got fuckin Poochied (great way to describe it) and the other I guess is the Empire's bitch now? So great, gently caress em.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:28
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Just go Unbound
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Jan 8, 2015 00:30
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I want Lizardmen to be fantasy squats so bad, oh my god the rage will be palpable
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Jan 8, 2015 00:32
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I made a handy reference chart explaining how the new system will work if you are still confused by the new system: Hope this helps.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:36
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BULBASAUR posted:I made a handy reference chart explaining how the new system will work if you are still confused by the new system: lmao I'm loving dying
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Jan 8, 2015 00:42
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BULBASAUR posted:
 My god, it's full of stars...
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Jan 8, 2015 00:43
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One of the young guns in Nottingham read on a BBS that WizKids were working on MechWarrior: Dark Age and now GW is desperately trying to beat them to the punch
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Jan 8, 2015 00:53
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BULBASAUR posted:I made a handy reference chart explaining how the new system will work if you are still confused by the new system: 
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Jan 8, 2015 00:53
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:what about the space knights don't you have like $10,000 of them already ?
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Jan 8, 2015 00:55
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 05:25 |
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I almost believed the rumors were true, until I read these very obvious lines of horseshit:quote:This will be a very big change. It is not because GW doesn't care about its old players and just wants to attract new ones. quote:It is just a very fresh look at a game that hasn't changed dramatically in how it's played since the dawn of the game and company. It will give everyone the opportunity and hopefully inspiration to do something new, but without invalidating everything from the past. It is opening room for creativity, not closing doors. Suuurrre it's not about forcing people to buy new minis to replace the ones they can't use any more. 
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Jan 8, 2015 01:09
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