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Bit more on the dyanmic scoring the new Congressional rules mandate. quote:The new, “dynamic” CBO will be systematically biased to make conservative proposals appear misleadingly cheap and liberal proposals misleadingly costly to the public fisc. This would be true even if the Republicans were soliciting a fair range of forecasting perspectives. By its design, the dynamic scoring rule allows the party in power to game its effects. It applies “dynamic scoring” only to legislation affecting 0.25 percent of Gross Domestic Product. As Chye-Ching Huang and Paul Van de Water point out, congressional leaders can manipulate this requirement easily: They can break up large pieces of legislation into smaller bills to avoid dynamic scoring, or combine smaller pieces into a major bill, if needed to make their agenda appear more affordable. Dynamic scoring is subject to abuse by its very design.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:55
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evilweasel posted:When stupid arguments go unchallenged, people stop remembering that they're stupid (and this in turn leads to even dumber arguments). If you don't want me to knock down stupid arguments then don't post them in the first place. There's plenty of stupid arguments in this thread, and if that was the case you'd be posting more. Nor was my position unchallenged, you specifically quoted a post which was me commenting about how folks were challenging my opinion. Kibbles is pointing out you have a personal beef with me(and probably me with you) because he's been reading this post for years, and it's fairly obvious. People have posters that push their buttons, I do, you do, everyone does.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:56
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zoux posted:Bit more on the dyanmic scoring the new Congressional rules mandate. It's the same method used to justify voter registration reform!
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Jan 7, 2015 23:01
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Also reminder that facts don't matterquote:Overall, 42 percent of Americans believe that U.S. forces found active weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq. Republicans are more likely to hold this belief than Democrats: fifty-one percent of Republicans think it’s “probably” or “definitely” true that an active program was found after the 2003 invasion, with 14 percent saying that it was definitely true. Still, large portions of other groups think that the WMD program, a major part of the justification for the invasion, was actually found, including 32 percent of Democrats. Part of the confusion may come from reports that individual chemical weapons shells, and related items have been found in Iraq, mostly thought to be vestiges of a WMD program shut down after the U.S.-led invasion in 1991.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:10
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I believe significant amounts of folks also believe we found actionable intelligence through torture and that is documented in the CIA report.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:16
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Zeitgueist posted:I believe significant amounts of folks also believe we found actionable intelligence through torture and that is documented in the CIA report. Didn't you see the documentary zero dark thirty? The facts are pretty conclusive. 
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Jan 7, 2015 23:18
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From that articlequote:Another commonly held false political belief concerns the president. Despite six years in office, and the release of his long-form birth certificate, 19 percent of Americans say that it’s “definitely” or “probably” true that President Barack Obama is not legally a citizen of the United States. This belief is most prevalent among the president’s opponents: 34 percent of Republicans think it’s likely, along with 22 percent of independents, and just seven percent of Democrats.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:23
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:From that article Half of West Virginia is registered Democrat, FYI.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:25
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TheLoquid posted:Wait what? Can I get a link for this story? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-suspects-left-swastika-dont-tread-on-me-flag-on-dead-officers/ evilweasel posted:A lot of people seem to be incapable of distinguishing "a stupid person said a dumb thing to try to spin something" with "normal people actually believed that dumb thing" and this post is a prime example of it. Normal people are barely aware of the incident in the first place, the only thing out there is stupid people saying dumb things to spin it. The fact that hardly anybody is aware of it at all, given the current media saturation about the NYPD shooting is pretty much the point.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:25
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Eh, they might just've seen McCain and Romney as so much worse that they held their nose and voted non-citizen Obama anyway.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:26
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Stultus Maximus posted:Half of West Virginia is registered Democrat, FYI. Same with Louisiana (where registered Democrats were twice as numerous as registered Republicans in 2012, if I recall correctly). A lot of these people stopped voting for Democrats after 2008 at the latest.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:27
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Has anybody made hay about Scalise's excuse that his speech at the neo-nazi group was about a tax plan that didn't even exist yet? Because there is so much more evidence piling up that he's even more directly related to hosed-up elements than Rand Paul and yet everyone seems fine with him being in the line towards becoming the next-in-waiting for Majority leader, etc.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:31
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Neeksy posted:Has anybody made hay about Scalise's excuse that his speech at the neo-nazi group was about a tax plan that didn't even exist yet? Because there is so much more evidence piling up that he's even more directly related to hosed-up elements than Rand Paul and yet everyone seems fine with him being in the line towards becoming the next-in-waiting for Majority leader, etc. At least the Southern Avenger had a change of heart, if we trust statements made in conservative magazine op-eds. Men in suits, worse than those in hoods, etc.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:38
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What?  How the hell is that number 42%? I expect a small chunk of crazies for every question but 42% is disconcertingly high for an event that is barely a decade old and was constantly in the news. I guess you really can deny things for so long that a large portion of people will believe you.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:41
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Relentlessboredomm posted:What? There was an article recently about them finding WMDs that were from the Iran-Iraq War but it was a little unclear.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:43
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Relentlessboredomm posted:What? lotta people don't watch the news awful lotta the ones that do only watch FOX Bet you're looking at about 15% conservative wingnuts, 25% uninformed.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:44
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computer parts posted:There was an article recently about them finding WMDs that were from the Iran-Iraq War but it was a little unclear. Weren't those WMDs that we manufactured and gave to Iraq? Like, we ended up covering up us finding those WMDs because we manufactured and gave them to Iraq and that would just be too goddamned galling for the public to know at the time? I'm pretty sure there's a recent wapo feature about it. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 23:45
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nutranurse posted:Weren't those WMDs that we manufactured and gave to Iraq? Like, we ended up covering up us finding those WMDs because we manufactured and gave them to Iraq and that would just be too goddamned galling for the public at the time to know? Yeah they were.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:47
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computer parts posted:There was an article recently about them finding WMDs that were from the Iran-Iraq War but it was a little unclear. Yeah, I remember that; it was a bunch of old gas shells that, if I remember right, we sold to Iraq back in the 80s and which had been rusting in a locked bunker for about as long. I don't recall if any of the usual suspects tried to represent that as validation of Cheney doctrine or not.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:48
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Relentlessboredomm posted:What? This guy explains it pretty well. 20 percentage points are just thundering morons (Almost 20% of people think the sun revolves around the Earth), and the rest are just people expressing political affiliation rather than their actual beliefs.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:48
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Rest assured, freedom seekers, Utah has not failed to note that the federal government has ignored its legal demands to hand over all federal lands in the state.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:00
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah, I remember that; it was a bunch of old gas shells that, if I remember right, we sold to Iraq back in the 80s and which had been rusting in a locked bunker for about as long. I don't recall if any of the usual suspects tried to represent that as validation of Cheney doctrine or not. That was a Bill Hicks bit: "We checked the receipt!"
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Jan 8, 2015 00:02
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah, I remember that; it was a bunch of old gas shells that, if I remember right, we sold to Iraq back in the 80s and which had been rusting in a locked bunker for about as long. I don't recall if any of the usual suspects tried to represent that as validation of Cheney doctrine or not. Of course they did.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:12
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Fried Chicken posted:http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/return-debtors-prison/ None of that is a GOP endorsement of debtors prisons. I'm extremely sympathetic to your point, but it's not a GOP thing.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:15
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Today, for the first time, Rand Paul was correctly addressed as "Mr. President".
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Jan 8, 2015 00:36
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Zeitgueist posted:I believe significant amounts of folks also believe we found actionable intelligence through torture and that is documented in the CIA report. We tortured because if you're willing to audiorecord your rape during an enhanced interrogation, you're sure enough of your hunch that you're willing to suffer the political consequences in case you're incorrect. American torture makes more sense when viewed as a method to cut red-tape in the intelligence industries, rather a method to gather novel intelligence.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:48
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My Imaginary GF posted:We tortured because if you're willing to audiorecord your rape during an enhanced interrogation, you're sure enough of your hunch that you're willing to suffer the political consequences in case you're incorrect. Haha no it doesn't because every non-moron in intelligence knows that torture doesn't give reliable intelligence. American torture makes sense when you realize we're a broken bloodthirsty society trying to terrorize our enemies, which is the real reason why we did it.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:54
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Quote of the day, “And this is why we say if we had somebody do to us what we have done to so many countries in the Middle East, and how many people we’ve killed, and sending over drones, and bombing, being involved in all these wars, and supporting dictators one week, and taking away the support — and the stupidity of us sending all those weapons into Syria, ending up in the hands of ISIS — and right now we’re even sending more weapons! You know, because ISIS took all the American weapons. It’s that overall policy which invites retaliation, and they see us as intruders. But it’s a little bit more complex, you know, when they hit us, either here at home, and hit civilians, and what’s happening in France. But I don’t think you can divorce these instances from the overall foreign policy.” ~ Ron Paul
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Jan 8, 2015 00:54
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, “And this is why we say if we had somebody do to us what we have done to so many countries in the Middle East, and how many people we’ve killed, and sending over drones, and bombing, being involved in all these wars, and supporting dictators one week, and taking away the support — and the stupidity of us sending all those weapons into Syria, ending up in the hands of ISIS — and right now we’re even sending more weapons! You know, because ISIS took all the American weapons. It’s that overall policy which invites retaliation, and they see us as intruders. But it’s a little bit more complex, you know, when they hit us, either here at home, and hit civilians, and what’s happening in France. But I don’t think you can divorce these instances from the overall foreign policy.” ~ Ron Paul TL;DR: Those loving frogs were asking for it.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:57
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Zeitgueist posted:Haha no it doesn't because every non-moron in intelligence knows that torture doesn't give reliable intelligence. You don't get it. It has nothing to do with the intelligence and everything to do with the red tape cutting power of "we did the most horrible things to confirm this intel, if you don't approve the missile strike, you'll personally have made Uncle Sam rape a man for nothing." Read what CIA Officer 1 (I forget her real name) sent back to H.Q. Its pretty clear that torture was just the magical way to "confirm" anything they wanted to get strike orders.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:58
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Joementum posted:Quote of the day, “And this is why we say if we had somebody do to us what we have done to so many countries in the Middle East, and how many people we’ve killed, and sending over drones, and bombing, being involved in all these wars, and supporting dictators one week, and taking away the support — and the stupidity of us sending all those weapons into Syria, ending up in the hands of ISIS — and right now we’re even sending more weapons! You know, because ISIS took all the American weapons. It’s that overall policy which invites retaliation, and they see us as intruders. But it’s a little bit more complex, you know, when they hit us, either here at home, and hit civilians, and what’s happening in France. But I don’t think you can divorce these instances from the overall foreign policy.” ~ Ron Paul Continuing the proud Libertarian tradition of almost getting it.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:59
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Pay no attention to the fact they used AKs and (supposedly) had an RPG.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:59
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Chairman John McCain has scheduled the first hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee for January 13, to hear the testimony of Henry Kissinger on global challenges to US national security strategy.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:01
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Trabisnikof posted:You don't get it. It has nothing to do with the intelligence and everything to do with the red tape cutting power of "we did the most horrible things to confirm this intel, if you don't approve the missile strike, you'll personally have made Uncle Sam rape a man for nothing." No, I get that is the reason we say we do it. Do you think monsters see themselves as monsters?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:02
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Trabisnikof posted:the magical way to "confirm" anything they wanted to get strike orders. And how is this bit incompatible with his statement that it is for terrorizing our enemies?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:02
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Also, LOL at the best justification we can come up with being "we needed to provide some really good support for murder so we tortured to hurry through the approval".Raskolnikov38 posted:And how is this bit incompatible with his statement that it is for terrorizing our enemies? Well you see when the Obama administration bombs weddings it's justified. Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 01:03
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It's a good thing House leadership has a capable, trustworthy whip to avoid embarrassing situations like the first major legislation of the new Congress failing to pass.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:18
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skaboomizzy posted:It's a good thing House leadership has a capable, trustworthy whip to avoid embarrassing situations like the first major legislation of the new Congress failing to pass. How messed up is the House that it can't even pass corporate fluff bills? Wow. Was there something good hidden there or something?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:20
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Zeitgueist posted:Well you see when the Obama administration bombs weddings it's justified. Has anyone ever said this? Has anyone not actually in the business of conducting drone strikes defended them in years even?
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Jan 8, 2015 01:27
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Nah, they hosed up by rushing it to the floor without having the Rules Committee issue a special rule. Normally, bills on the House floor are open to debate and amendment. There are two ways to get around this: (1) the Rules Committee issues a special rule, which needs to receive majority support on the floor that limits debate on the bill and specifies the text, or (2) the House can pass a bill under suspension of the rules, but this requires a 2/3rd majority, which means that it will need support from the minority party. Remember the floor drama around the rules vote on the CRomnibus where Congressman Mall Santa saved the day by switching his vote at the last minute? That was a vote on the special rule from the Rules Committee. That Committee is selected by the Speaker and has a super majority from the majority party, which allows the Speaker to effectively control the floor. It's the committee Boehner kicked two of the defectors off yesterday. I'm not sure he's selected replacements yet. tl;dr: Republicans tried to unnecessarily rush this, probably hoping Democrats wouldn't care. Turns out they were wrong. Expect it to pass tomorrow or early next week.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:27
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