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Ojetor posted:Eh, even if the flavor is a joke, the actual board itself is perfectly playable. I didn't say it wasn't playable, just that you shouldn't play with it. Side A's chances of winning are dependent on who it's sat between but it can be heinously overpowered in the early game, Side B is overpowered in the late game, and whoever is sat next to it is put at a disadvantage.
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Jan 7, 2015 18:58
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Countblanc posted:I knew you'd come around. Now go! Go and play Troyes! It calls out to you, like a wronged, forgotten lover. I still don't get why more people don't like Troyes  It always feels so underrated, and I think it's far and away a much better game than, say, Alien Frontiers (in the "dice assignment" sort of genre). I think the one group I played it with felt that they "got their rear end kicked" by the board, but this was despite devoting exactly 0 resources to dealing with the events, especially those that were affecting them (like schism while trying to maintain control of the church). This is doubly weird since this is also a group that enjoys games like Space Alert and Galaxy Trucker, where the objective is to pretty much get your rear end kicked. I don't understand people.Maybe I just need to play it more to see why it is a bad game or something, but I really don't think it is.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:26
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Turns out Tigris is going to have plastic in it after all http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5295
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Jan 7, 2015 19:32
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Rivensteel posted:Are those in Daybreak as well? Nope. Daybreak has plastic Centurions. Honestly though, while every expansion is flawed in some way, if you're all first-time players the progression through base -> pegasus -> exodus -> daybreak is enjoyable. Each one tends to fix gripes about the previous, until you start seeing the problems with your "current" expansion, then move on. If you're still playing by the time you get through Daybreak your group will probably have a set of ideas on what's good/bad and cobble together an ideal version from all the expansions.
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Jan 7, 2015 19:38
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Honestly, they need to make a 2nd edition of BSG. I can't get it to the table with the expansions. And I don't want to play it without. I love the game but it suffers from some feature creep
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Jan 7, 2015 20:10
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The expansions add alot of crap to BSG, I prefer it without. The crap that emulates the planet they landed on for a while. By god that's terrible.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:20
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fozzy fosbourne posted:Honestly, they need to make a 2nd edition of BSG. I can't get it to the table with the expansions. And I don't want to play it without. It suffers from a shitload of feature creep, and almost none of it is balanced.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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One thing I'd like them to do with BSG 2e would be to standardise the game length. So, it always takes five crises to get ready to jump, and the humans always win after four jumps (or whatever game length balances well). However, the Admiral and scouting players get to pick jump destinations that are more or less destructive for the fleet to go to, and players scouting the crisis deck get to pick better or worse crises for the fleet to encounter. Rather than what we have now, where it's in the Cylons best interests to drag the game out as long as they possibly can, and sometimes it takes that long just through pure dumb luck, cylon interference or no.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:28
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Gort posted:One thing I'd like them to do with BSG 2e would be to standardise the game length. So, it always takes five crises to get ready to jump, and the humans always win after four jumps (or whatever game length balances well). However, the Admiral and scouting players get to pick jump destinations that are more or less destructive for the fleet to go to, and players scouting the crisis deck get to pick better or worse crises for the fleet to encounter. These are all really reasonable suggestions. I feel like they might have to up the stakes ever so slightly on the locations, though, because currently the distance:danger ratio is part of the decision process for the admiral. The addition of a standard "distance tracker" on the game board somewhere would help a lot for Cylon Leaders. It makes it pretty obvious that I'm up to some fuckery involving distance traveled if I go and rifle through the pile of discovered planets halfway through the game.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:53
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QnoisX posted:Cool, thanks. I'm not in a big hurry to order it since Coolstuff is currently out of stock and my board game group won't meet again for a few weeks probably. I'll be going to PAX South since I now live in San Antonio, I'm going to hopefully be able to join the tabletop tourney games (also while picking up Paperback) they've got going on while being able to see Tripwire's Killing Floor 2 stuff.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:01
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Fat Samurai posted:It's basically Legendary Marvel, right? For me, Alien is Ripley running a lot, not Hicks blasting aliens with a shotgun. You play scenarios on Encounters and those are much more specific in what happens and when compared to the regular Legendary Schemes. They are split into stages that you need to clear before time runs out and Aliens stick around attacking each turn. Every player plays a stereotypical character has has some stuff that they are better at by the means of a unique card in their deck and a special ability. There are also cards that you can play on your teammates turn to assist their actions. First scenario is the first movie and it is quite hard, second is the second movie (not surprisingly) and it involves a lot more shooting, like the second movie had. But no, the characters you play and the stuff you do are more along the lines of "Hicks blasting aliens with a shotgun." than "Ripley running a lot". In Legendary Encounters you just blast those f*****s or at least you try to, and die miserably instead. There are ways to tweak the difficulty to suit your team though, like playing a round without enemies showing up as a means of preparation. If "running away helpless from horrors" is what you seek, there are games like Level 7 [Escape] that does it. But everyone hates that game. Maybe others can recommend an alternative?
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Jan 7, 2015 21:27
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I have played Aquasphere five times and we have gotten some rule wrong each and every time. Amazing.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:43
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echoMateria posted:If "running away helpless from horrors" is what you seek, there are games like Level 7 [Escape] that does it. But everyone hates that game. Maybe others can recommend an alternative? I don't think there's a single horror game out there like that that is good, and that's sad.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:44
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quote:Turns out Tigris is going to have plastic in it after all I would like to be mad, but the board actually looks pretty nice. I don't prefer it, but I don't think it's terrible. I was expecting them to   it out at least a bit.
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Jan 7, 2015 21:55
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Lorini posted:I have played Aquasphere five times and we have gotten some rule wrong each and every time. Amazing. What rules are you getting wrong? I've had a lot of trouble remembering that red and blue actions both score points, and that taking a green tile with a letter lets you drop a robot into that station. I got my copy yesterday, so we've only had one play through so far. e: Also, when you do intermediate scoring, are you counting crystals used to pass the lasers during that scoring? The rulebook doesn't say it's simultaneous, so we haven't been counting those crystals, but I dunno if that's right. e2: haha, well, just checked on BGG, and I did get it wrong. The marker gets moved after all points are counted. Prairie Bus fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 21:57
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I've talked about this before, but my friend who keeps trying to teach us games he learned at GenCon is just plain wrong. No more, he's on sabbatical from teaching games now  -Scoring of the octopods during the action phase. First we played it that each octopod scored the center tile, then we played it that there were no points. -No center points for what should have scored, namely the subs and the cards -Allowing subs of the same color to be in one sector -not playing the white bot space correctly, you don't get to do the action with the white bot, you program a correlating bot That's what I can remember. I just will have to scour the rules again and hope our next play (which will be this weekend) will go properly.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:16
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Played a game of Tiny Epic Kingdoms. At 3 players, at least, it feels much too Risk-ish, with combat being a real drain for both parties; it feels like too often the winner is going to be "whoever got involved in the least fighting" (certainly was the case today, where I won by not participating in anything and stockpiling mana). That works and you can play a game like that, but it feels like a shame as there's other more interesting stuff in the game that this tramples over. It also feels like a real step back compared to other recent games, many of which have put in useful effort to avoid this problem. Combat sucks mechanically in Eclipse, but participating in early combat doesn't automatically screw you. You get VP on both sides, and if you lose you effectively get some "free" production. In Kemet, there's VP going around so that combat is less negative-sum, and there's lots of rules to make combat less crushing for the loser. Going even further, you have stuff like Tash Kalar, where losing some "dudes" often doesn't feel like a loss at all. In all these games, combat feels like a normal move rather than something spiteful/desperate that will end up hurting you both. It feels like we've reached a point where a direct-interaction game needs do be doing something about this problem, even if it's not fully effective, or its just not worth playing. As it stands, we'll probably play TEK a couple more times to try the races and then sell it. jmzero fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 22:22
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I played a self-teaching game of Samurai Spirit this afternoon! The game definitely has a cool "that was badass!" moment when poo poo lines up right. I can't remember the specific samurai names right now, but there was a moment where I passed the "fight two things" power to the "pass 2, 4, or 6" power guy and ended up shifting a 4 and a 6 to my right and left, triggering both of their Kiai. Felt real good. Definitely going to be a quarterback-y game, but there's environments where that works and it plays fast and is small (hooray easy transport) so it'll get some play I'm sure. That said, it seems really easy to get a bad setup, either too hard or too easy. I only had 6 cards that caused Intruder fires in my first shuffle (12 by the end, since it was a 3 player game and I think all the Lieutenants and Bosses have it) so it just wasn't that scary to Support or even to pass my Kiai, but I could see it having been just the opposite where there were so many fire cards that Supporting wouldn't be viable at all. Obviously this alleviates itself with 5-7 players since you're gonna see most/all of the cards at that point, but with 2-4 it seems very possible to have a game where all your cards are 3s and 4s and you just die miserably no matter what you do.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:48
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My friend bought Splendor and it's a decent game but it seems to suffer from the dominion-like games that give lucky buyers the advantage. It doesn't seem to have an engine component at all since you just look for the most convenient VP reward. Is this due to the 15 point cap and making that cap higher might reward engine building? Even so, I don't think you can escape the random market factor. Just seems like an overhyped game and I can see why it didn't win Spiel des Jahres. It just seems to be more present in game stores which explains its popularity and exposure. Haven't tried camel up yet though. Is that much better or was this year a weak one for games?
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Jan 7, 2015 22:49
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Lorini posted:I've talked about this before, but my friend who keeps trying to teach us games he learned at GenCon is just plain wrong. No more, he's on sabbatical from teaching games now I just got my copy but I think I will read the rules a couple times and then scour BGG rules section before we play it. We will probably play Viticulture again this weekend anyways since we will be starting to add in Tuscany stuff.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:51
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Countblanc posted:I played a self-teaching game of Samurai Spirit this afternoon! The game definitely has a cool "that was badass!" moment when poo poo lines up right. I can't remember the specific samurai names right now, but there was a moment where I passed the "fight two things" power to the "pass 2, 4, or 6" power guy and ended up shifting a 4 and a 6 to my right and left, triggering both of their Kiai. Felt real good. Definitely going to be a quarterback-y game, but there's environments where that works and it plays fast and is small (hooray easy transport) so it'll get some play I'm sure. This is true for every co-op game, but Samurai Spirit in particular. It's designed to be light and fast, and it's a lot of fun when played in that spirit. The one time I played with our local area "alpha-gamer", it was a terrible slog that took twice as long as it should have. Every other session has been great. If it comes down to it, put a 20-second timer on everyone's turn. You'll probably still win fairly often.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:55
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Lorini posted:Aquasphere When I was taught the game by a guy who went to Gen Con, I missed a lot of these rules as well. Once you get a sense for the iconography, the game makes more sense, but it is a lot to take in at first glance.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:17
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echoMateria posted:Me and my friend who bought it had high expectations (he has all Legendary stuff) and we liked it even more than expected. It is nowhere as solid as a deck builder as Dominion of course, but it is a tense co-op with a working deck builder system. Well that's good to know. My group really enjoys playing co-op games. Not sure if I could get them to play with the agendas since some of them seem to hate BSG, but the base game sounds good. Is the Alien deck optional or does that always happen if someone dies to a facehugger? I actually don't like playing Dominion with the group since 2 of them own it and have played it a bunch, so it basically comes down to them knowing which cards to pick and me just waiting for them to win so we can play a different game. My buddy that has all of the Legendary stuff lives over 2 hours away, so mixing it in wouldn't be an option much, so I suppose not having the desire to do so is a plus. Btw, Coolstuff just got Legendary Encounters back in stock. Of course they did, they want me to spend money. Suburbia looks like a pretty good game too, is the expansion worth it to start out with or would that be something you'd want to add in later? I need $10+ to get free shipping. I wish the Space Alert expansion was an option, but I can't get them to play the base game. I guess they don't like losing. Plus one guy wants to rush through and fill up his actions before we even get all of the threats flipped. Instead of working with the group he seems to focus on one threat and try to handle it on his own. He's also the guy that always acts like a Cylon during BSG and basically makes it really hard to use Executive Orders. Last time I got them to play BSG was from winning the Coup game where the winner picked the next game. So first turn he brigged a player that hadn't even gone yet instead of losing 5 cards. She wasn't a Cylon and it took 2 rounds and much more than 5 cards to get her out and pissed her off. He also refused to help get her out, "because she's a Cylon". After not playing into several other crisis, he was executed by the player using Cally and of course he's human. Either way, humans lost to morale at least 2 jumps from victory when the President threw the game by playing something that dropped the morale from 1 to 0 because he wanted it to end. The President player then announced he would never play the game again and I can't blame him I guess. He was the only new player and had been playing as a pilot with no CACs the first two jumps. Oh well, sorry for the rant.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:33
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jmzero posted:Played a game of Tiny Epic Kingdoms. At 3 players, at least, it feels much too Risk-ish, with combat being a real drain for both parties; it feels like too often the winner is going to be "whoever got involved in the least fighting" (certainly was the case today, where I won by not participating in anything and stockpiling mana). That works and you can play a game like that, but it feels like a shame as there's other more interesting stuff in the game that this tramples over. Tiny Epic Kingdoms is a bad game, but the only reason I've found for going to war (outside of a racial power I guess) is that it soft eliminates someone if you do it early. Since I think you start with 6 resources of your choosing, always go 6 mana. This gives you a ludicrous war chest that you can use to put pressure on everyone else building and making new dudes, and chances are you're gathering resources while they're doing this since, y'know, you have none. Then when the Quest/Patrol actions come up (or when you pick them), go ruin someone's day and smash them in. Going from 3 ->2 dudes or 2 -> 1 dudes in the early game is really harsh and chances are, that player will likely not be in the running for anything anymore. Be a constant Whack a Mole threat if they decide to ever expand from their one territory that they will likely be stuck in for the rest of the game. In Civ terms, this is basically you going Montezuma on them and rushing them with your racial Warriors. Does it make the game fun? Absolutely not, especially for the person you bullied, but it'll take a lot of convincing that the game would be fun anyway.
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Jan 7, 2015 23:41
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Has anyone tried the Suburbia app? Considering that it's only $4 compared to $40 for the board game, would it be a decent substitute to buy that instead and use pass and play? I have a 12" tablet and could possibly use screen mirroring to the tv. Not sure how that would work with secret goals. Already have the Galaxy Trucker app that I play solo at least. That's another hard game to get to the table. I swear I think I might just need a new group... 
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Jan 7, 2015 23:53
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djfooboo posted:One of the wonders, Abu Simbel, requires Leaders, but you should get Leaders if you don't have it anyway Yeah, I plan on getting all of the expansions eventually; we're just trying to get a whole bunch of play out of the base game before adding in more stuff (especially because base 7 Wonders is in the perfect sweet spot where its simple enough that my wife doesn't get overwhelmed trying to play it, but its complex enough that the more heavy board gamers I play with aren't getting bored.) (On that same note, we introduced someone's girlfriend to good boardgaming [i.e. she came from a Monopoly family] with Love Letter and 7 Wonders) Guy A. Person posted:You can still use side A of Great Wall without any issues. And honestly, while side B uses expansion symbols there is nothing that you need from the actual expansions in order to run it (except an understanding of the rules). In a pinch you can use the negative military markers in place of debt tokens for stage 3. How are debt tokens supposed to work anyway? I bought the companion app and have used Cupertino a couple times, which also has a broken-coin pay-the-bank symbol on it.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:01
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QnoisX posted:Suburbia looks like a pretty good game too, is the expansion worth it to start out with or would that be something you'd want to add in later? You probably don't want to use it for your very first game, but beyond that, go for it, the expansion doesn't add a vast amount of complexity, and it's good.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:10
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QnoisX posted:Has anyone tried the Suburbia app? Considering that it's only $4 compared to $40 for the board game, would it be a decent substitute to buy that instead and use pass and play? I have a 12" tablet and could possibly use screen mirroring to the tv. Not sure how that would work with secret goals. Already have the Galaxy Trucker app that I play solo at least. That's another hard game to get to the table. I swear I think I might just need a new group... If you don't mind me asking, what kind of tablet is it? I always wanted to use this website on a big tablet rather than the board. Then I would only need to bring a deck box to take TS everywhere.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:11
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Jedit posted:Yes, we are. It was made as a joke, and nobody in their right mind plays with it. What? It's perfectly fine. Jedit posted:I didn't say it wasn't playable, just that you shouldn't play with it. Side A's chances of winning are dependent on who it's sat between but it can be heinously overpowered in the early game, Side B is overpowered in the late game, and whoever is sat next to it is put at a disadvantage. Are we playing the same game here Side A's effectiveness is entirely based on who Pis is sat next to, yes and puts the person whose sat next to him at a disadvantage in that they are perfectly capable of sniping resources to build their own wonders abilities but this isn't "overpowered", that's just "the strategy of playing Pis" and I don't see how it can be overpowered if it's literally copying what the other wonders do, how can it be overpowered in the early game (i.e age 1) when it's just copying the first stage of the neighbouring wonder. Odds are fairly good that's just going to be 3 points which isn't overpowered but just patently average. The stage 2 and 3 wonders are more flexible but again if it's just copying abilities how can it conceivably be more powerful than those abilities, that makes no sense. how is side B overpowered in the late game, it's one stage. One. And while it's a very good stage, it's still only one stage. It loses the ability to repeatedly eat cards your neighbours need for wonder stages and that last stage still isn't better than a lot of other wonders everything combined and one military icon isn't likely to make a difference in the "late game" when you claim it's very powerful. It's a really good wonder stage, but it's the only one it's got and it is precisely as expensive as the Palace and only a couple of points better than it. It puts you way more at the mercy of getting good cards from the draft to build your points since you can't turn crap into useful stuff with your wonder too much either, claiming Mannekin Pis B is overpowered is ludicrous because it's the wonder where the actual wonder element of the game is the least relevant. It's a one-shot burst of points and while it's a very efficient burst, you're not going to be able to do the tactical stuff with your wonder that you could otherwise, you're just carrying around a single hyper-efficient card and that's it. It's nothing overbearing because the nature of only having one wonder stage makes it hard for Pis B to disrupt their opponents strategies. plus it starts with coins instead of a resource which I think just kinda plain sucks in general. basically I submit that you're full of poo poo, Mannekin Pis is perfectly playable and definitely not overpowered and might actually be a little bit poo poo IMO. Yes, it sucks being sat next to the guy but so does being sat next to Rhodes where they just stab you in the face repeatedly with their extra shields. SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 00:18
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jivjov posted:How are debt tokens supposed to work anyway? I bought the companion app and have used Cupertino a couple times, which also has a broken-coin pay-the-bank symbol on it. Everyone else at the table pays the bank a coin for each broken coin token. For each coin they can't pay or choose not to pay they take a -1vp token. You can read the Cities rulebook online if you want to know more.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:20
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Mannekin Pis is perfectly playable and definitely not overpowered and might actually be a little bit poo poo IMO. The original promo Mannekin Pis was overpowered because whoever sat next to you when you built the wonder stage owed you a beer in addition to whatever else it gets, which means you win even if you get the fewest points. The Wonder Pack version nerfed it 
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Jan 8, 2015 00:24
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Lord Frisk posted:If you don't mind me asking, what kind of tablet is it? I always wanted to use this website on a big tablet rather than the board. Then I would only need to bring a deck box to take TS everywhere. I have a Galaxy Note Pro with a 12.2 inch screen. That board works just fine, very easy to use. Never played Twilight Struggle though.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:25
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jivjov posted:How are debt tokens supposed to work anyway? I bought the companion app and have used Cupertino a couple times, which also has a broken-coin pay-the-bank symbol on it. They are pretty simple. The paying player takes debt tokens for each coin he cannot (or decides not to) pay when the broken coin comes up. So if a -3 comes up, and I only have 2 coins, I would have to take at least one debt token, but I could also decide to take up to 3 debt tokens if I want to keep my money. The debt tokens are just -1's to VP, and they can't be "paid back" at a later time. Which is why I said the military things would work as a substitute (unless there is a card that counts your military tokens, like I think one of the guilds does, although I can't remember if that is in the base game). EDIT: Beaten by dishwasherlove, but I had a little more detail so leaving this here.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:27
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Guy A. Person posted:unless there is a card that counts your military tokens, like I think one of the guilds does, although I can't remember if that is in the base game). Strategists's Guild and yes, it's in the base game.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:28
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Strategists's Guild and yes, it's in the base game. Bah! Well then for simplicity's sake I would just use the "pay down to 0" variant that Poopy Palpy mentioned, unless you want to substitute another token in.
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Jan 8, 2015 00:30
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I actually want a hard answer to what wonders are overpowered and I'm tempted to start taking data from the games I play over BSW to work out what wonders win the most in aggregate but unfortunately BSW doesn't support Cities, Leaders or the Wonder Pack so I'm left unable to take a proper stab at how Mannekin Pis actually is in the grand scheme of things although for real if I had to guess I would reckon Pis A would be around the middle of the pack and B probably towards the bottom half. I play the expansions well and often enough with a fair number of different people, I just can't get the same number of games that I could by just playing or observing a shitload of games on BSW. but would I have to separate the sets out by whether the game is being played with just A sides, B sides or both or can I just be lazy and lump them all together SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 00:45
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Mannekin Pis only giving coins as a starting resource is pretty lovely for the people sitting next to you, since they don't get the option to buy some resource from you. I guess the neighbors might wind up getting some of those coins; then again they might not, especially with Cities in play. Mannekin Pis A is fine when your neighbors play something boring like Giza, but with more exotic powers it can get really unbalanced one way or another. Sitting next to Rome B is awful: I just get to play my garbage fourth Leader and I don't even get the full Rome discount on it. Abu Simbel B? Nice, I get Abu Simbel B with a third Wonder stage tacked on; that'll probably be decent. Great Wall? Heaven: I can pick whatever specialized option helps me the most and ignore the rest. I honestly have no idea what to make of Mannekin Pis B. McNerd fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 01:07
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McNerd posted:Mannekin Pis only giving coins as a starting resource is pretty lovely for the people sitting next to you, since they don't get the option to buy some resource from you. I guess the neighbors might wind up getting some of those coins; then again they might not, especially with Cities in play. I doubt it, not starting with a resource and only four coins means you can only buy two resources and how many times do you use the resource you start with? More than twice a game, I'd wager. It's not saving Mannekin Pis any draft picks to start with coins and is quite possibly leaving them at a resource deficit. And I would say those four coins are gonna find the way to their neighbours, to do otherwise is kind of a waste since money is there to be spent. and the thing I argue is that if you have a wonder copying wonder, your wonder stages are never going to be better than everyone else's stages and you're probably more likely to end up with bullshit that doesn't synergise with your wonder since your wonder has no intrinsic synergies and doesn't synergise with the other stages either. I think the odds are likely stacked against Pis in the long run but that perfect storm of copied stages may come around every once in a while and dominate. Perhaps more often still you'll just end up with the usual "two wonder stages that score flat points, one decent ability" which puts you firmly in the realm of most of the other wonders but slightly worse because you don't start with a resource that helps you build the wonder stages. This all comes out to me thinking Pis A is probably on the low-mid end of the spectrum. In my games which is a fair few but I'll grant you I don't see Pis get played too often, Pis has won exactly one game and that game was being played with Babel so that's useless. B seems like a wonder that also relies on luck of the draw due to being unable for the most part due to being unable to take bad hands and turn them into points throughout the game. For this same reason I would imagine Pis B can't respond well to pressure being put on by a neighbours science or military. That last stage is really good to be sure but the lack of wonder stages kinda prevents Pis B from really playing the whole Wonder thing strategically which sounds like a huge loss, I don't think the reasonably large but not absurdly so points steroid balances that loss out, putting Pis B firmly on the end of Wonders that'll lose a lot due to being screwed by the draw or being unable to respond to an opponent. this is all just the thoughts of somebody who plays far too much 7 Wonders for it to be healthy, but I don't have anything to go on besides personal feeling and conjecture.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:27
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The thing with Pis A is that every now and then you get Babylon B on your right and then something with actual points on your left and at that point does it even matter what resource you don't start with? It's got a luck problem, to be sure, but I don't think it's overpowering. No more so than luck dictating Abu Simbel getting a pair of 5 cost leaders, or Petra B getting to open with Gambling house, or getting Byzantium Any in a 3 player game. Pis B is just inferior, though. You're not going to be able to use it before the end of Age 2 unless you got loads of money/resources, and then what are you going to do with the windfall? Seven coins, seven points, and a shield. If you're really lucky, that shield will mean 16 points. More likely it'll mean 10, or 5, or zero. Also, for a fairly similar investment (less cards, more coins) you can score Rhodes B for the same payoff plus a shield. And, you'll get the money and each shield when they actually matter, not 70% of the way through the game.
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Jan 8, 2015 02:42
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| # ? May 13, 2024 22:59 |
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:I doubt it, not starting with a resource and only four coins means you can only buy two resources and how many times do you use the resource you start with? More than twice a game, I'd wager. It's not saving Mannekin Pis any draft picks to start with coins and is quite possibly leaving them at a resource deficit. And I would say those four coins are gonna find the way to their neighbours, to do otherwise is kind of a waste since money is there to be spent Sure, I'd say Mannekin Pis's starting coin is a bit weak for the Mannekin Pis player and for their neighbors. (In a game with enough players, of course both can simultaneously be true.) One neighbor might not see a penny; maybe neither will, if it's all spent on Leaders and black cards. Even assuming you do give me 2 of your 4 coins, I have less use for them than normal, since you're likely not to have a lot of resources for me to buy. (Not just for lack of a starting resource but because you plan to copy my resources and build my Wonder.) quote:and the thing I argue is that if you have a wonder copying wonder, your wonder stages are never going to be better than everyone else's stages and you're probably more likely to end up with bullshit that doesn't synergise with your wonder since your wonder has no intrinsic synergies and doesn't synergise with the other stages either. I think the odds are likely stacked against Pis in the long run but that perfect storm of copied stages may come around every once in a while and dominate. Perhaps more often still you'll just end up with the usual "two wonder stages that score flat points, one decent ability" which puts you firmly in the realm of most of the other wonders but slightly worse because you don't start with a resource that helps you build the wonder stages. This all comes out to me thinking Pis A is probably on the low-mid end of the spectrum. In my games which is a fair few but I'll grant you I don't see Pis get played too often, Pis has won exactly one game and that game was being played with Babel so that's useless. This mirrors my thoughts: it fluctuates between awful and overpowered, but usually just a bit subpar and unfocused due to lack of any synergies designed-in. But it's not much of an endorsement! McNerd fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jan 8, 2015 |
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Jan 8, 2015 02:48
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