|
bonds0097 posted:That said, everything you just said about Permutation City applies to us, in the (real?) world. Which I suppose is fine if you're a nihilist. Yea, I get that, and thought about commenting on it. But it's kind of understood that since we're here and I'm addressing other people who are here, obviously we care about our reality. But that doesnt mean that any outsider would have to care. And for that reason I didn't care about Permuation City. I don't identify as a nihlist but I guess I do lean towards statistics more than anything else, which would produce the same result.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:15 |
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Ok so looking for a recommendation, I just finished the 7th book of Malazan book of the fallen on audio book to find out that the 8th won't be released for a few months. After that I'll probably just read them instead of waiting. So some titles I've read liked: WoT, GoT, Gentlemen Bastards (Lynch), most Sanderson (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris, etc.), The First Law (Abercrombie), Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor (Bakker), Kingkiller (Rothfuss), Malazan (Erikson) as I said. Thread hasn't failed me yet, thanks. If you want to keep reading fairly recent epic fantasy by men you could try A Land Fit for Heroes by Richard Morgan. You should also read China Mieville.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 01:10
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Ok so looking for a recommendation, I just finished the 7th book of Malazan book of the fallen on audio book to find out that the 8th won't be released for a few months. After that I'll probably just read them instead of waiting. So some titles I've read liked: WoT, GoT, Gentlemen Bastards (Lynch), most Sanderson (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris, etc.), The First Law (Abercrombie), Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor (Bakker), Kingkiller (Rothfuss), Malazan (Erikson) as I said. Thread hasn't failed me yet, thanks. The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny is a good series. You might like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust too. Both are packaged in collections of two or more stories in one; I think you can get an all-in-one of the Chronicles of Amber these days pretty easily.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 03:46
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny is a good series. You might like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust too. Both are packaged in collections of two or more stories in one; I think you can get an all-in-one of the Chronicles of Amber these days pretty easily. Amber is a fun series, but I don't know that I'd call it good. I honestly feel it's best recommended to teenagers and/or people very unfamiliar with the fantasy genre as something of a first step (the latter doesn't apply to Daggerpants, and I suspect the former doesn't, either). The Vlad Taltos books are a solid recommendation, though it should be noted that, compared to nearly everything he listed, they are incredibly short on a per-book basis, but there are over a dozen of them (and all appear to be on Audible). I'll also toss out a recommendation for the Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 03:54
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Ok so looking for a recommendation, I just finished the 7th book of Malazan book of the fallen on audio book to find out that the 8th won't be released for a few months. After that I'll probably just read them instead of waiting. So some titles I've read liked: WoT, GoT, Gentlemen Bastards (Lynch), most Sanderson (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris, etc.), The First Law (Abercrombie), Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor (Bakker), Kingkiller (Rothfuss), Malazan (Erikson) as I said. Thread hasn't failed me yet, thanks. Go read Hannu Rajenami's Quantum Theif trilogy. It's Scifi instead of fantasy but it's brilliant as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny is a good series. You might like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust too. Both are packaged in collections of two or more stories in one; I think you can get an all-in-one of the Chronicles of Amber these days pretty easily. I tried reading Lord of Light ... to this day the only book in recent memory I didn't finish, but I'll check out all the suggestions so far. Thanks guys.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 04:43
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Non-Gaiman opinion, just to break up the monotony: I really enjoyed Three Parts Dead (after a recommendation from someone here), are the rest of the books in the same universe as good? Two Serpents Rise is even better than Three Parts Dead, you're going to love it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 07:29
|
|
|
Then there's Full Fathom Five, which started off a little slow in comparison for me (the other two got to the core issue within a couple chapters, while I felt this one didn't really get to the actual problem until about half way through) but is still great all the way through. On a separate note, I mentioned Joel Shepherd's Cassandra Kresnov series a while back as a recommendation for someone, and the third book in the second trilogy just came out yesterday. It was a satisfying ending with a nice surprise at the end and enough left open for further stories if he so chose. I really hope he does, as I'd love to see more of the Talee and their pro-human synth. Also, more of the other alien races mentioned at the end, and how humanity adjusts to sharing space with more than just themselves. All said it's been an incredibly satisfying ride, and still remains one of my favorite sci-fi series in general. Quick bit on the overall series: Cassandra is a highly advanced synthetic super-human, or GI as they're called in-universe. She was created as a special forces soldier by the League, a pro-science faction that split away from the Federation partly due to restrictions on synth-tech. The League, being a significantly smaller faction than the Federation, used large numbers of GIs with a largely non-existent personality to supplement their army in the war against the Federation. They also created more complex versions like Cassandra to try and get a leg up but still ultimately surrender, instead opting for a "win through modernization" strategy, much like present day US vs China. Cassandra winds up a bit too smart, and realizes as the war is winding down that she doesn't like the side she's been fighting for her whole life and smuggles herself off to the Federation to try and hide, living a normal life. Then the first book starts and things go to poo poo for her, including an amazing, one-off bit of body horror in (mild spoilers for a part of the second? chapter of the first book) Cassandra being kept awake while getting taken apart, body part by body part. Despite how all of that sounds, it's less of a military sci-fi series and focuses more on the politics of Callay, the planet Cassandra winds up on, shadowy agencies still trying to fight a war already won, whether GIs deserve any rights in a society largely against them even existing to begin with and whether someone who has spent literally their entire life killing and fighting for survival in a war can find a place in more 'civilized' life. There's lots of excellent combat throughout the entire series, and Joel does a great job of balancing the fights with the politics so neither feels like it's dragging on too long. There's also some pretty great characters, like Vanessa, a bisexual woman who commands a SWAT team, Ibrahim, the director of Callay's security agency, Mahud, and others I'd like to mention but who would be too much of a spoiler to do so. Tanusha, the largest city on Callay, and in fact the entire Federation, is also a fascinating setting, being the most sheltered from the war, the most technologically advanced place in the Federation (thus the closest in ideologies to the League) and largely Indian in population and style. There's some other planets that pop up in the second trilogy, but the first takes place entirely on Callay, with a quick stop on the orbiting station. It's a very interesting universe, with some backstory I'd love to hear more about (nano-tech nearly wiped us out, for example) and a believable extrapolation of modern political standings.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 09:35
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Ok so looking for a recommendation, I just finished the 7th book of Malazan book of the fallen on audio book to find out that the 8th won't be released for a few months. After that I'll probably just read them instead of waiting. So some titles I've read liked: WoT, GoT, Gentlemen Bastards (Lynch), most Sanderson (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris, etc.), The First Law (Abercrombie), Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor (Bakker), Kingkiller (Rothfuss), Malazan (Erikson) as I said. Thread hasn't failed me yet, thanks. Gemmell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 12:26
|
|
|
bonds0097 posted:I'd say Egan is mostly about "oh the possibilities", which is what I love about his writing. But if that doesn't strike your fancy, his stuff won't appeal to you as much simply because his plotting and characters are not particularly great. One of those writers who really work best in the short-story format, I think. Take idea, run with it to (or beyond) logical conclusion, end of story, ready for next story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 12:30
|
|
|
Groke posted:One of those writers who really work best in the short-story format, I think. Take idea, run with it to (or beyond) logical conclusion, end of story, ready for next story. 100% agree. I love Axiomatic, Dark Integers, etc. His short story collections are fantastic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 14:50
|
|
|
Groke posted:One of those writers who really work best in the short-story format, I think. Take idea, run with it to (or beyond) logical conclusion, end of story, ready for next story. Nancy Kress does this with her short fiction, though less hard scifi and more human stories. My favorite is the one about the mass spread of star trek style replicators and people dealing the sudden lack of an economy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
Which one's that? Sounds pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 16:29
|
|
|
Onean posted:
That sounds really good, and this will probably be my first 2015 read.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 18:18
|
|
|
Borneo Jimmy posted:Does anybody in this thread have any recommendations for any contemporary authors that write the sort of Sword and Sorcery done by Fritz Leiber or Karl Edward Wagner? Bizob posted:Look, I was shocked to hear it too but I've been crunching the numbers all morning and the math checks out. I was born in exactly 1979 and I thought it was garbage to the point that I gave up and deleted it off my kindle about 30% of the way in. The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves something something something. 
coyo7e fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
Onean posted:Then there's Full Fathom Five, which started off a little slow in comparison for me (the other two got to the core issue within a couple chapters, while I felt this one didn't really get to the actual problem until about half way through) but is still great all the way through. I read the first book in this series ages ago and really liked it but never got around to finishing the series and had completely forgotten about it. I need to go find them now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 20:51
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Ok so looking for a recommendation, I just finished the 7th book of Malazan book of the fallen on audio book to find out that the 8th won't be released for a few months. After that I'll probably just read them instead of waiting. So some titles I've read liked: WoT, GoT, Gentlemen Bastards (Lynch), most Sanderson (Stormlight, Mistborn, Elantris, etc.), The First Law (Abercrombie), Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor (Bakker), Kingkiller (Rothfuss), Malazan (Erikson) as I said. Thread hasn't failed me yet, thanks. Go check the Malazan thread, since we literally have this discussion at the moment. We have sofar bitched about Rothuss and Sanderson and have now reached Bakker. Within the fantasy genre there seems to be a divide between people who like Sanderson and people who like Malazan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 21:04
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you get Stardust be sure to get the version illustrated by Charles Vess. It's far, far superior; they only published the un-illustrated version because lots of people who read fantasy novels don't want to read "comic books." Hieronymous Alloy posted:Co-authored. Impossible to know how much of the credit for that one should go to Pratchett.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 22:00
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Within the fantasy genre there seems to be a divide between people who like Sanderson and people who like Malazan. They're both bad, what do I win?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Go check the Malazan thread, since we literally have this discussion at the moment. I like both but admit their faults
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
RVProfootballer posted:They're both bad, what do I win? You are objectively wrong, Sanderson is a great world builder.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:06
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:You are objectively wrong, Sanderson is a great world builder. He's the most tedious, excessively verbose fantasy writer working today. His motto is to always take a 1,000 pages to write what could also have been written in 5 pages, without losing anything in the process.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:23
|
|
|
RVProfootballer posted:They're both bad, what do I win? A signed copy of Bakker's screed on why he likes to insert so many sexy rape scenes in his books. Enjoy!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
less laughter posted:He's the most tedious, excessively verbose fantasy writer working today. His motto is to always take a 1,000 pages to write what could also have been written in 5 pages, without losing anything in the process. You called him the verbose one in a conversation that includes Erikson? Wow. My knock on him as has always been his paper-thin characters who are walking tropes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:You are objectively wrong, Sanderson is a great world builder. Personally I read books for things like 'plot' and 'style' and 'characterization'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Go check the Malazan thread, since we literally have this discussion at the moment. RVProfootballer posted:They're both bad, what do I win? I don't pretend to be a literary connoisseur, some who claim to be would exclude me by virtue that I read fantasy in my spare time. I think most people who read the genre tend to do so because they find it fun and interesting, not because they think it's going to change their outlook on life in some profound way. That being said most of the successful writers do at least a few things well. To say any given author is flat out bad seems a bit of a reach, particularly if they have half a dozen or more books. You might complain that Sanderson is excessively verbose, or that his characters typically aren't very deep but he does have some fantastically unique magic systems (for lack of a better term). I don't personally consider that world building per se, for me world building is more about building a complete universe the characters of the story take place in. I think Erikson is fantastic at this, maybe not as crazy as Tolkien but I'm hard pressed to think of anyone else who has a more fleshed out universe of races, factions, geography, and deities. Is it perfect? of course not, his style is a little jarring to get used to initially and his characters - particularly dialog get repetitive but it's still fun in it's way. Anyway didn't mean to get carried away, I started the Farseer trilogy yesterday thanks for the suggestions everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 01:45
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:I don't pretend to be a literary connoisseur, some who claim to be would exclude me by virtue that I read fantasy in my spare time. I think most people who read the genre tend to do so because they find it fun and interesting, not because they think it's going to change their outlook on life in some profound way. That being said most of the successful writers do at least a few things well. To say any given author is flat out bad seems a bit of a reach, particularly if they have half a dozen or more books. You might complain that Sanderson is excessively verbose, or that his characters typically aren't very deep but he does have some fantastically unique magic systems (for lack of a better term). I don't personally consider that world building per se, for me world building is more about building a complete universe the characters of the story take place in. I think Erikson is fantastic at this, maybe not as crazy as Tolkien but I'm hard pressed to think of anyone else who has a more fleshed out universe of races, factions, geography, and deities. Is it perfect? of course not, his style is a little jarring to get used to initially and his characters - particularly dialog get repetitive but it's still fun in it's way. Anyway didn't mean to get carried away, I started the Farseer trilogy yesterday thanks for the suggestions everyone. Number of books has nothing to do with quality. Malazan isn't fleshed out, it's a million different characters that I don't care about in an incoherent setting. Sanderson writes RPG source books, though I got a very computer RPG vibe from Words of Radiance (sort of spoilery: pick your radiant class and advance down two unique skill trees, or try out the soldier class which can use many weapons and level up in 10 different fighting styles, or play as a Parshendi that can upgrade its form at levels 7, 14, and 21). There, they're bad. (Obviously I mean I think they're bad, duh) E: Also, you can't say Sanderson's characters are paper thin when Malazan is in the conversation. How many soldiers are at all different? How many brooding mysterious tragic heroes are there? sourdough fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jan 8, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
That's not true, Sanderson writes great RPG sourcebooks. The fluff fiction between the crunch is pretty weak, though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 02:14
|
|
|
RVProfootballer posted:Number of books has nothing to do with quality. Malazan isn't fleshed out, it's a million different characters that I don't care about in an incoherent setting. Sanderson writes RPG source books, though I got a very computer RPG vibe from Words of Radiance (sort of spoilery: pick your radiant class and advance down two unique skill trees, or try out the soldier class which can use many weapons and level up in 10 different fighting styles, or play as a Parshendi that can upgrade its form at levels 7, 14, and 21). There, they're bad. (Obviously I mean I think they're bad, duh) I never said malazan characters were deep and thought provoking, but that the extent of the world building was higher than almost anything else. Funny that you mention rpgs since I read that the malazan universe was created as a backdrop for a pen and paper rpg, likely why it's so fleshed out. Also the number of books an author writes has some indication of popularity, meaning they do something people like enough to buy them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 05:17
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:Also the number of books an author writes has some indication of popularity, meaning they do something people like enough to buy them. If you're saying something can't be lacking in quality if it is popular, then you're just wrong  Romance novels are by far the best selling genre (iirc), and I am comfortable saying they have awful plots and characters too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 06:41
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:The Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny is a good series. You might like the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust too. Both are packaged in collections of two or more stories in one; I think you can get an all-in-one of the Chronicles of Amber these days pretty easily. Glen Cook's Dread Empire series. Baen has them as ebooks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 08:29
|
|
|
RVProfootballer posted:E: Also, you can't say Sanderson's characters are paper thin when Malazan is in the conversation. How many soldiers are at all different? How many brooding mysterious tragic heroes are there? Erikson has a lot of characters who exist for a couple of pages as random soldiers but still manage to be decently fleshed out, Sanderson tends to do straight tropes and makes them his protagonist. Erikson takes tropes and usually does something interesting with them....Karsa subverts both the stock barbarian trope and the noble savage myth, which is at least some depth. I'm saying SE does a better job putting some dimension on a massive cast than BS does with a relatively small one, so I give him the nod on that. Maybe it's just a personal opinion thing. But I will give you that he has a character literally named Brood.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 10:28
|
|
|
Other popular Goon books: I kinda stalled out on the second Gentleman Bastards book, just wasn't doing it for me. Liked Lies though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 10:29
|
|
|
less laughter posted:He's the most tedious, excessively verbose fantasy writer working today. His motto is to always take a 1,000 pages to write what could also have been written in 5 pages, without losing anything in the process. I enjoy Sanderson's work, but I'd agree that he's horribly long-winded at times. It's really telling that the story pretty widely considered to be his best (The Emperor's Soul) is a work of short fiction, as is another one of his that I really enjoyed, Firstborn. It seems to me like when he's actually forced to write really short fiction, his skills come out to play more.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 11:01
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:You called him the verbose one in a conversation that includes Erikson? Wow. There is nothing wrong with Sanderson, he writes fantasy better than most other authors. He just bores me, especially since his characters (of the ones I have read) completely lack any form of humour. Zeitgueist posted:I kinda stalled out on the second Gentleman Bastards book, just wasn't doing it for me. Liked Lies though. Third one isn't any better either. Decent read, but nothing special.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 11:05
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:Glen Cook's Dread Empire series. Baen has them as ebooks. Speaking of Glen Cook, how about his Garret PI series? The premise seems like it could be a lot of fun...
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 11:57
|
|
|
I too like Erikson and Sanderson both. They write good, entertaining brick sized novels. And both have shown to also be able to write great bite sized fiction if they want.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 11:59
|
|
|
RVProfootballer posted:If you're saying something can't be lacking in quality if it is popular, then you're just wrong What? I never said that. I said that if an author is popular enough to have convinced enough people to purchase their books repeatedly to the point that a publisher continues to pay them they are obviously doing something a relatively large amount of people enjoy. To declare an author flat out bad when they have won multiple literary awards, got tapped to complete one of the most popular fantasy series of the last 20 years, and have sold over 15 million of their own books in the last 10 years is in my opinion rather ignorant.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 14:09
|
|
|
Daggerpants posted:. Also the number of books an author writes has some indication of popularity, meaning they do something people like enough to buy them. There are almost 40 books in the Xanth series, and counting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 14:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 21:15 |
|
|
Daggerpants posted:What? I never said that. I said that if an author is popular enough to have convinced enough people to purchase their books repeatedly to the point that a publisher continues to pay them they are obviously doing something a relatively large amount of people enjoy. To declare an author flat out bad when they have won multiple literary awards, got tapped to complete one of the most popular fantasy series of the last 20 years, and have sold over 15 million of their own books in the last 10 years is in my opinion rather ignorant. Isn't that exactly what you're saying? "It's really ignorant to call romance author X that pumps out 10 books a year bad, since they're obviously doing something a large number of people enjoy. They wouldn't be publishing a lot of books if they were bad! They even won an award (best vampire fisting scene of 2014)." Not to pick on romance novels; you can see how dumb this argument is for anything you don't particularly like. "Oh [musician/movie series/anything] is bad? Then how come so many people keep buying it? It's rather ignorant to make such a blanket statement."
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2015 14:35
|
|