US Pol January - Please, please leave the thread if this will affect you

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Pol January - Please, please leave the thread if this will affect you

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Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

Mineaiki posted:

the first guy looks like he just crawled out of his basement for the first time this month

2014 was Pete Diamondstone's 22nd attempt at being elected, but he's obviously the true goon choice: a man who shows up in jorts for a debate and calls for a workers' revolution.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 06:26

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 19:13

KiteAuraan: Aug 5, 2014; JER GEDDA FERDA RADDA ARA!

Fried Chicken posted:

You know the more I think about this the more pissed off I am. This and the ACA tweak. This is the poo poo that defines the Republican Party, and why I would happily dance a little jig if all of them got the Rapture they want. It isn't a policy decision to accomplish a public good. It isn't an efficiently tweak. It isn't even straight up principled opposition to something in the name of their beliefs in the role and responsibilities of the government. It is sabotage of something people depend on for the sole purpose of creating a talking point for their media outlets. That is the only loving purpose here. They want to address the employer mandate and disability pay? Great, let's have a big public debate on it. But this is just intentionally breaking poo poo so they can run against it and then roll back their change. The only loving point is to hurt people for a political gain. This poo poo is burning down the country because they will get to put their throne atop the ashes.

HAHA GREAT! The Republicans are going to gently caress me, right at a point in my life where I need help the most. Hope my disability lets me find a job after school, otherwise I am going to have zero money and loan debt! WOOHOO!

# ? Jan 8, 2015 06:31

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Joementum posted:

2014 was Pete Diamondstone's 22nd attempt at being elected, but he's obviously the true goon choice: a man who shows up in jorts for a debate and calls for a workers' revolution.

See, this is the great thing about America. Anyone can run for office here. Oh, other countries, "sane" countries, say they have the same Freedom we do, but a man like this would be laughed out of town long before he got a chance to debate anywhere else. When was the last time you saw someone running to be the Prime Minister of France show up in jorts? A candidate for the Mayor of London wear a boot on his head? A possible Canadian Senator brag about his sexual prowess being better than his opponents on television? Only in America, where we have true, authentic American made Freedom do people like this actually get to run for office

Shine on you crazy diamond. :patriot:

Anyways, it got buried in the Speaker election news, but the other day Jerry Brown called to sharply step up California's carbon reduction efforts, calling for the amount of energy from renewables by 2020 to be increased from 33% to 50% That's a lot. It is somewhat mitigated by the fact that the writing is on the wall for them to need to start going hard for desalinization and that will require their energy budget to go way up, but still.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 06:49

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Joementum posted:

The City Council of Winfield, Alabama has transferred ownership of their charter to the Lord God Almighty.

I'm not sure that's exactly what Augustine had in mind, but they do celebrate Mule Day, "One of the top 20 events in the Southeast", on the fourth Saturday of every September, so who am I to argue?

Whereas, we acknowledge that at no point will Al Haig ever be in control.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:07

Mitt Romney: Nov 9, 2005; dumb and bad

Fried Chicken posted:

So not everything is terrible. Today Tom Wheeler (FCC Chairman) basically did the equivalent of doing donuts on Comcast's front lawn while blaring "Smoke on the water" and screaming "Eat poo poo Assholes!"

Firstly, the FCC is redefining "broadband" to mean 25 Mbps down, 3 Mbps up, an increase from its current standard of 4 down, 1 up. This is important because ISPs receive Universal Service funds to provide rural services, with the condition that they meet minimum standards as defined by their proper regulatory industry. In other words, he just told them to octuple your internet speed or it is going to cost them a poo poo ton of money.

Secondly he very strongly indicated that internet is going to be regulated under Title II as a common carrier. This would be the "Eat poo poo!" part. Common carriers are the standard for the rest of the world, and plays a big role in why everyone else has faster internet speeds. As a way of an analogy, think of it like this Ted Stevens grade explanation - The internet is a series of tubes. most of those tubes are filled with cats. right now the company owns the tube. In fact, they have a regional monopoly on the tube. So there isn't much incentive to make the tube bigger, because you have nowhere else to go. But under common carrier, they own the valve handle. Valve handles are cheap - anyone can make one. So they have a strong incentive to have the tube companies make larger tubes so they can tell you about their bigger tube network. And since the ISPs cover the entire country, they have the clout to force the issue and make bigger tubes installed.

To step away from that hamfisted attempt to explain it, it means the question of net neutrality is dead, because net neutrailty is firmly and permanently enshrined, and ISPs will now operate like phone companies, pushing for faster and faster networks like their 4G cell phone ads do now.

This does beg the question of what's going on with the NSA's wiretapping program though, since they were getting their tap from the ISPs and in return the ISPs were getting a gratuitous handjob in the form of their FCC granted regional monopolies, but that's something we will have to wait a while to learn about.

I'm guessing we're going to see some of the most expensive / lucrative lobbying ever done to prevent the common carrier classification. All they need is ~14 democratic senators right?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:20

Tengames: Oct 29, 2008

Yeah, i was gonna say, is there something I'm missing or is eveyrone jsut being blindly optimistic that this wont just be stopped between now and when it happens, or get immediately undone when it does?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:40

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

fade5 posted:

As terrifying as John McCain being the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee sounds, that might actually be the key to starting to kill off the shitshow that is the F-35.

John McCain reveals that he was just playing the GOP for fools like Lieberman did to the Democrats. His first act is to kill the F-35 and put the screws to Lockheed-Martin while informing them that they will begin building hundreds of new A-10s or they get no more contracts and informing the military that if they don't want A-10s well that's too loving bad :dealwithit:

I could forgive a lot of McCain's bullshit if he kills the F-35 and saves the A-10. Especially if the military wants to hit ISIL with airstrikes constantly.

Could Lockheed Martin survive without ~~free government money to gently caress around with~~ government contracts? The F-35 has to have just been a giant payday for them at this point because even if they run over budget they've bought enough congressmen and build parts in enough states that cutting off the funding isn't easy.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:44

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Mitt Romney posted:

I'm guessing we're going to see some of the most expensive / lucrative lobbying ever done to prevent the common carrier classification. All they need is ~14 democratic senators right?

Nope. Congress has delegated rulemaking to the agency (as it has on a number of topics, but that's another issue entirely), this is internal. The vote on the 26th is between the commissioners (there are 5 of them, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate for 5 year terms).

In theory congress could pass a rule overriding it (just like the GOP wants to do for EPA regulations on carbon emissions), but as it stands right now these five people make the call.

Tengames posted:

Yeah, i was gonna say, is there something I'm missing or is eveyrone jsut being blindly optimistic that this wont just be stopped between now and when it happens, or get immediately undone when it does?

There is a lot of public opinion, media, and probably most importantly, money, against them caving to Comcast et al and going through with this. So its optimism, in the sense that people are expecting they are craven corrupt bastards who fold to the biggest lobbying group, rather than the nastiest.

Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Jan 8, 2015

# ? Jan 8, 2015 07:56

PupsOfWar: Dec 6, 2013

Fried Chicken posted:

See, this is the great thing about America. Anyone can run for office here. Oh, other countries, "sane" countries, say they have the same Freedom we do, but a man like this would be laughed out of town long before he got a chance to debate anywhere else. When was the last time you saw someone running to be the Prime Minister of France show up in jorts? A candidate for the Mayor of London wear a boot on his head? A possible Canadian Senator brag about his sexual prowess being better than his opponents on television? Only in America, where we have true, authentic American made Freedom do people like this actually get to run for office

Shine on you crazy diamond.

Brazil: the freedomest country of all

# ? Jan 8, 2015 08:04

InequalityGodzilla: May 31, 2012

PupsOfWar posted:

Brazil: the freedomest country of all

Yup, to my knowledge they're the only country that get's literally dozens upon dozens of joke candidates every election.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 08:14

Aurubin: Mar 17, 2011

InequalityGodzilla posted:

Yup, to my knowledge they're the only country that get's literally dozens upon dozens of joke candidates every election.

Godzilla is too ugly to rape.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 08:39

Evil_Greven: Feb 20, 2007; Whadda I got to,
whadda I got to do
to wake ya up?

To shake ya up,
to break the structure up!?

Fried Chicken posted:

So not everything is terrible. Today Tom Wheeler (FCC Chairman) basically did the equivalent of doing donuts on Comcast's front lawn while blaring "Smoke on the water" and screaming "Eat poo poo Assholes!"

Firstly, the FCC is redefining "broadband" to mean 25 Mbps down, 3 Mbps up, an increase from its current standard of 4 down, 1 up. This is important because ISPs receive Universal Service funds to provide rural services, with the condition that they meet minimum standards as defined by their proper regulatory industry. In other words, he just told them to octuple your internet speed or it is going to cost them a poo poo ton of money.

Secondly he very strongly indicated that internet is going to be regulated under Title II as a common carrier. This would be the "Eat poo poo!" part. Common carriers are the standard for the rest of the world, and plays a big role in why everyone else has faster internet speeds. As a way of an analogy, think of it like this Ted Stevens grade explanation - The internet is a series of tubes. most of those tubes are filled with cats. right now the company owns the tube. In fact, they have a regional monopoly on the tube. So there isn't much incentive to make the tube bigger, because you have nowhere else to go. But under common carrier, they own the valve handle. Valve handles are cheap - anyone can make one. So they have a strong incentive to have the tube companies make larger tubes so they can tell you about their bigger tube network. And since the ISPs cover the entire country, they have the clout to force the issue and make bigger tubes installed.

To step away from that hamfisted attempt to explain it, it means the question of net neutrality is dead, because net neutrailty is firmly and permanently enshrined, and ISPs will now operate like phone companies, pushing for faster and faster networks like their 4G cell phone ads do now.

This does beg the question of what's going on with the NSA's wiretapping program though, since they were getting their tap from the ISPs and in return the ISPs were getting a gratuitous handjob in the form of their FCC granted regional monopolies, but that's something we will have to wait a while to learn about.

I really want to believe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this also pave the way for Google Fiber via pole access?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 08:43

Swan Oat: Oct 9, 2012; I was selected for my skill.

If Congress passed a law overruling FCC legislation Obama could still veto it right?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 09:06

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Evil_Greven posted:

I really want to believe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this also pave the way for Google Fiber via pole access?

Yes.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 09:19

RuanGacho: Jun 20, 2002; "You're gunna break it!"

Swan Oat posted:

If Congress passed a law overruling FCC legislation Obama could still veto it right?

Yes, the Pen of God could still Veto it, but considering the nature of this congress if they try to do something about it they may try to pass the DEFENDING INTERNET CONSERVATIVE SERVICES bill.

Evil_Greven posted:

I really want to believe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this also pave the way for Google Fiber via pole access?

It depends on how the regulations are applied and how far they go but it's possible it could force open some last mile or utility access, we will have to see.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 09:20

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Tengames posted:

Yeah, i was gonna say, is there something I'm missing or is eveyrone jsut being blindly optimistic that this wont just be stopped between now and when it happens, or get immediately undone when it does?

Politics is so amazingly depressing you feel weird when something vaguely good happens.

Tell me about it.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 09:42

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Zeitgueist posted:

Politics is so amazingly depressing you feel weird when something vaguely good happens.

Tell me about it.

Answer: rename our Broadband offerings to "Broadband" or update everything to "HyperBand", make speeds slightly faster. Rules not broken, money unspent, problem solved, bonuses for everyone on the Board for avoiding this particular issue.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 09:47

Samurai Sanders: Nov 4, 2003; Pillbug

Fried Chicken posted:

There is a lot of public opinion, media, and probably most importantly, money, against them caving to Comcast et al and going through with this. So its optimism, in the sense that people are expecting they are craven corrupt bastards who fold to the biggest lobbying group, rather than the nastiest.

So basically big money will win again, though this time it appears to be siding with consumers for once?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 10:01

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Samurai Sanders posted:

So basically big money will win again, though this time it appears to be siding with consumers for once?

Well Google says "don't be evil" so they can't be evil. :colbert:

# ? Jan 8, 2015 10:10

Franco Potente: Jul 9, 2010

Fried Chicken posted:

See, this is the great thing about America. Anyone can run for office here. Oh, other countries, "sane" countries, say they have the same Freedom we do, but a man like this would be laughed out of town long before he got a chance to debate anywhere else. When was the last time you saw someone running to be the Prime Minister of France show up in jorts? A candidate for the Mayor of London wear a boot on his head? A possible Canadian Senator brag about his sexual prowess being better than his opponents on television? Only in America, where we have true, authentic American made Freedom do people like this actually get to run for office

Actually, Canadian Senators are appointed by the Prime Minister, not elected. :eng101:

# ? Jan 8, 2015 14:40

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Fried Chicken posted:

Nope. Congress has delegated rulemaking to the agency (as it has on a number of topics, but that's another issue entirely), this is internal. The vote on the 26th is between the commissioners (there are 5 of them, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate for 5 year terms).

In theory congress could pass a rule overriding it (just like the GOP wants to do for EPA regulations on carbon emissions), but as it stands right now these five people make the call.

I think 14 Democratic senators is what they'd need to override Obama's veto of the bill overturning the FCC's decision. You'd also need some Democrats in the House of course.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 14:48

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Congrats to Senator Pat Toomey on his most important appointment yet.

Hope you like sugar puns.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 15:35

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Grapplejack posted:

Answer: rename our Broadband offerings to "Broadband" or update everything to "HyperBand", make speeds slightly faster. Rules not broken, money unspent, problem solved, bonuses for everyone on the Board for avoiding this particular issue.

But then you don't get that sweet sweet universal service fund money.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 15:51

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Shifty Pony posted:

But then you don't get that sweet sweet universal service fund money.

Look, you need to stop expecting people to acknowledge clearly stated facts and build opinions from there when they can instead show how cynical and edgy they are by posting an alternate scenario devoid of said facts and processes.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 15:57

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

The Freedom of Kittens and Anime Act.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 15:57

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

So how long do ISPs have to provide the new minimum speeds before they'll lose their USF money?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:01

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

Fried Chicken posted:

Look, you need to stop expecting people to acknowledge clearly stated facts and build opinions from there when they can instead show how cynical and edgy they are by posting an alternate scenario devoid of said facts and processes.

The real trick will be holding the companies to the promised speeds instead of allowing "28mbps!* _{if you live 20 feet from the DSL pedestal and have wiring made of audiophile grade magic copper}"

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:02

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

It's only been 4 years since broadband was upped to 4mbps (from 0.2mbps), how has holding companies to those promised speeds been working out?

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:06

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Who What Now posted:

So how long do ISPs have to provide the new minimum speeds before they'll lose their USF money?

As covered last night, that will be in the as yet unreleased rules

haveblue posted:

It's only been 4 years since broadband was upped to 4mbps (from 0.2mbps), how has holding companies to those promised speeds been working out?

As covered in the article you didn't read, failure to deploy in a timely fashion is one of the reasons for the increase - this is one of the ways the FCC can punish them.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:12

Boywhiz88: Sep 11, 2005; floating 26" off da ground. BURR!

Not to mention that as Tier II there would be way more oversight from the FCC.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:13

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Who What Now posted:

So how long do ISPs have to provide the new minimum speeds before they'll lose their USF money?

The 25mbps is for reporting about what broadband is only, the minimum for universal service funds was upped only to 10mbps (from 4).

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:21

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Down in North Carolina, for the past two years Duke Energy has received massive subsidies at tax rebates from the state (to the net tune of 297 million) has gotten the green energy mandates phased out while being allowed to keep the money meant to subsidize increasing their generating power, and got the state to run interference on having to clean up their coal ash pits and spills there from (again so they could "focus on expanding generating capabilities to provide the power North Carolina needs")

Today Duke Energy told residents of North Carolina to limit their electricity usage because they can't provide enough to keep up with heating demands and are looking at rolling blackouts come tomorrow if the temperatures stay low.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:29

Kristov: Jul 5, 2005

Fried Chicken posted:

Down in North Carolina, for the past two years Duke Energy has received massive subsidies at tax rebates from the state (to the net tune of 297 million) has gotten the green energy mandates phased out while being allowed to keep the money meant to subsidize increasing their generating power, and got the state to run interference on having to clean up their coal ash pits and spills there from (again so they could "focus on expanding generating capabilities to provide the power North Carolina needs")

Today Duke Energy told residents of North Carolina to limit their electricity usage because they can't provide enough to keep up with heating demands and are looking at rolling blackouts come tomorrow if the temperatures stay low.

Oh gently caress me sideways.

Can you refer me to some links to bookmark so I can provide sources to people I know around here.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:45

Alec Bald Snatch: Sep 12, 2012; by exmarx

It wasn't just one state but their entire customer base.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:45

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

The 2014 election is now over and the results for Governor of Vermont are in!

Peter Shumlin (Democratic): 110
Scott Milne (Republican): 69
Dan Feliciano (Libertarian): 0

Speaker Shap Smith announces that there will be an ice cream social at noon today.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:46

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Fried Chicken posted:

Down in North Carolina, for the past two years Duke Energy has received massive subsidies at tax rebates from the state (to the net tune of 297 million)

Sounds like government incompetence to me :smugdog:

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:47

zoux: Apr 28, 2006

Kristov posted:

Oh gently caress me sideways.

Can you refer me to some links to bookmark so I can provide sources to people I know around here.

This stuff is pretty common in most electric markets.

Part of the problem is that it's inefficient and impractical to keep enough capacity around to meet the handful of days each year that reach that maximum limit.

My argument to that is that maybe if the energy industry wasn't profit driven and instead was, oh, maybe nationalized and run as a public benefit then we wouldn't necessarily worry about absolute efficiency and maybe bear some of the extra cost as a social need.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:50

Xibanya: Sep 17, 2012; Clever Betty

Wow actually good news for once!

And McCain actually being a "maverick" or whatever. I guess it's a Nixon to China thing, only he could kill the F-35. Hell, I'll take it.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:50

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Kristov posted:

Oh gently caress me sideways.

Can you refer me to some links to bookmark so I can provide sources to people I know around here.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/duke-energy-asks-its-customers-to-reduce-electricity-use-for-the-next-24-hours-300017507.html

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:51

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 19:13

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

zoux posted:

This stuff is pretty common in most electric markets.

Part of the problem is that it's inefficient and impractical to keep enough capacity around to meet the handful of days each year that reach that maximum limit.

My argument to that is that maybe if the energy industry wasn't profit driven and instead was, oh, maybe nationalized and run as a public benefit then we wouldn't necessarily worry about absolute efficiency and maybe bear some of the extra cost as a social need.

A bigger problem is we don't have a true national grid, we have a series of state and regional ones that can under specific circumstances link up when both parties agree to compensate appropriately. Hence why you don't have plants in Florida providing the difference here.

There have been various proposals to overhaul it, make it more like the Internet in terms of structure and connectivity, making it easier to handle variable load demand and harder for any particular event to cause an outage, but setting aside the business interests of the power companies the costs of doing such a transition would be loving huge - keep in mind how much of the stimulus went to light grid upgrades and now consider that you need to do the whole thing. It is highly skilled labor and the transition needs to be seemless or outages cause huge problems.

# ? Jan 8, 2015 16:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > US Pol January - Please, please leave the thread if this will affect you

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