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sullat posted:Y'all are letting your civilization biases show. Just go back 18000 years or so, find some tribe, make charcoal draw8ngs of dickbutt. Be treated as a wizard, get all the BBQ mammoth you can eat. Being beaten to death because I'm a funny-looking stranger lacks appeal.
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Jan 9, 2015 03:27
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Tomn posted:Were the Hapsburgs at all aware of the dangers of inbreeding? I'd have thought that animal husbandry was advanced enough at that point that farmers or dog-breeders at least knew better than to inbreed too often. Was that not the case, or did the Hapsburgs just ignore that for whatever reason?
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Jan 9, 2015 03:35
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xthetenth posted:Is that depression in the inbred, depression in those studying it or both? It's this
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Jan 9, 2015 03:39
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Kaal posted:Being beaten to death because I'm a funny-looking stranger lacks appeal. That's going to be a risk in almost any era. I guess "stabbed" to death is more likely once metal tools become widespread, but clubbing is/ was always popular.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:40
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Not really. The pointy rock is one of mans oldest friends, as evidenced by the prehistoric skeletons with flint arrowheads in them.
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Jan 9, 2015 04:47
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Davin Valkri posted:That's actually a thing that happened? I thought Voltaire made it up as a joke about every noble's personal guard consisted of really tall people. Would 6'3" be considered "very tall" in this period? Even nowadays, it's considered pretty tall. In Western Europe, most folks would have been around 5'7" or so. Anybody over 6' would have been at least a head taller than the average person. George Washington was about 6'2" and Abe Lincoln was about 6'4". By modern standards, that's still above average, although its not unheard of. For that period, it was loving huge, hence why period writers frequently mention those mens' height. And if you were 6-foot+ in Asia you'd be a loving giant  e: have a (totally unscientific) comparison of heights from coalition troops during the Boxer Rebellion.
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Jan 9, 2015 05:53
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What kind of arrangement did people use for pike and shot formations? I figured the soldiers would stand in rows with an alternating pattern of pikemen and musketeers, or pike, musket, musket, pike, musket, etc. But then I saw a diagram with all the pikemen in the middle and all the musketeers on the sides. What advantage would this practice have? Wouldn't the gunmen on the flanks be vulnerable to a sudden charge by cavalry or pikemen?
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Jan 9, 2015 08:35
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 Everyone is standing far enough apart to allow movement, so if your sleeve of muskets is getting attacked, they can all fall back inside the pikes. We all have this image of them standing shoulder to shoulder but in reality they had to be well spaced. I have this pet hypothesis that pikemen under attack (particularly inexperienced ones) would close up together seeking shelter from musket fire. It seems to have happened in Ireland anyway, the standard practise was to heavily skirmish with shotte then once the opposing pikemen were tied up, launch a charge with swordsmen.
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Jan 9, 2015 08:47
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Rabhadh posted:
quote:I have this pet hypothesis that pikemen under attack (particularly inexperienced ones) would close up together seeking shelter from musket fire. Edit: Chamale, there's a bunch of things you can do, but I have never seen a formation like you describe, either in a manual or in person. Because of who I reenact with I'm most familiar with the "Swedish wedge," which is six deep, pike in the middle and shot to either side. Sometimes they fire by rotation or at will, sometimes they walk in front of us, double their ranks so they're three deep, the first rank kneels, then they fire all together. This incredibly new, incredibly impressive thing is called a "salvee." HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 09:03
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What the largest number of people you guys have gotten together?
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Jan 9, 2015 09:08
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Rabhadh posted:What the largest number of people you guys have gotten together? Edit: The rolls are closed now but I know someone who might be able to massage the data a little, if you're interested.
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Jan 9, 2015 09:11
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: The rolls are closed now but I know someone who might be able to massage the data a little, if you're interested. Hah that sounds incredible, but I doubt I could do it. My only experience of pretending to be a cool old timey person is working as an extra on the show Vikings.
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Jan 9, 2015 09:15
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Rabhadh posted:Hah that sounds incredible, but I doubt I could do it. My only experience of pretending to be a cool old timey person is working as an extra on the show Vikings. So, who brutally murdered you with an axe?
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Jan 9, 2015 09:17
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HEY GAL posted:Edit: Chamale, there's a bunch of things you can do, but I have never seen a formation like you describe, either in a manual or in person. One time you mentioned that two muskets for every pike was considered a good ratio, so I was basing my assumptions off that. I was picturing a bunch of pikemen holding off cavalry while musketmen shot at everyone else, and now I realize how much harder that would be to coordinate than the separate blocks with alleys in the ranks.
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Jan 9, 2015 09:19
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Chamale posted:One time you mentioned that two muskets for every pike was considered a good ratio, so I was basing my assumptions off that. I was picturing a bunch of pikemen holding off cavalry while musketmen shot at everyone else, and now I realize how much harder that would be to coordinate than the separate blocks with alleys in the ranks.
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Jan 9, 2015 09:21
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my dad posted:So, who brutally murdered you with an axe? Nobody  60+ of us did shieldwall training which was amazing but I had to miss the actual filming of the battle scenes due to college. I don't even think I was visible in the scenes I did get to film. Being an extra is boring as poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2015 09:21
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Groda posted:No, that period is pretty much the George RR Martin back catalog. Hear, hear. If we weren't slaughtering each other, we got our poo poo together for long enough for Germans and Swedes to kill us 
Tias fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 09:30
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100 Years Ago The Germans attack on the Aisne, causing momentary panic before it's realised that they don't have any reserves to follow it up. The landings on Mafia go quietly, Cardinal Mercier continues driving the news agenda, and A Page For Women is worried that people aren't wearing enough hats.
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Jan 9, 2015 14:31
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What happens if the officers get shot in these big complicated combined arms formations? Wouldn't everything fall apart?
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Jan 9, 2015 14:41
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Agean90 posted:Not really. The pointy rock is one of mans oldest friends, as evidenced by the prehistoric skeletons with flint arrowheads in them. Beg pardon, but those were religious rituals.
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Jan 9, 2015 15:33
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oa.1390040306/abstract Shooting dudes with pointy rocks for a religious ritual is still shooting dudes with pointy rocks.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:00
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Bacarruda posted:e: have a (totally unscientific) comparison of heights from coalition troops during the Boxer Rebellion. From their eyelines it looks like the Sikh soldier fourth from the left is actually shorter than the guy next to him, but they ranked him as taller because they were counting his turban. Which is really funny to me for some reason.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:01
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Hat height counts, intimidation factor!
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Jan 9, 2015 16:05
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EvanSchenck posted:From their eyelines it looks like the Sikh soldier fourth from the left is actually shorter than the guy next to him, but they ranked him as taller because they were counting his turban. Which is really funny to me for some reason. SeanBeansShako posted:Hat height counts, intimidation factor! Also I wonder how much of the height of the British guy is also his hat. I suppose this is what inspired the pickelhaube.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:27
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Agean90 posted:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oa.1390040306/abstract I was making a joke about the go-to explanation when the explanation of an excavated thing is not immediately obvious. 
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Jan 9, 2015 16:27
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SeanBeansShako posted:Hat height counts, intimidation factor! It totally does:  
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Jan 9, 2015 16:34
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Rabhadh posted:Hah that sounds incredible, but I doubt I could do it. My only experience of pretending to be a cool old timey person is working as an extra on the show Vikings.
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Jan 9, 2015 16:49
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I was making a joke about the go-to explanation when the explanation of an excavated thing is not immediately obvious. i am not a smart person 
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Jan 9, 2015 17:15
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Fangz posted:I suppose this is what inspired the pickelhaube. Actually, it was IIRC designed as a cheap way to guard against overhead saber strikes from cavalry - they'd glance off the spike. And the tall grenadier hats were because a tricorn or similar would have gotten in the way of them throwing grenades.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:49
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I love the fact that Hussar braids were also designed to deflect the blow of a saber. The British helmet of the Victorian era was more or less really just fulfilling the role of stopping the sun frying the brain. Victorian era soldiers had a fuckload of head accessories. I'm not making this up.
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Jan 9, 2015 19:52
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Alchenar posted:Assuming you are English/American and can read/write fairly well and otherwise know your sums, your path to prosperity at some point in the past probably depends on the answer to the question "How okay are you with Slavery?" Mostly people with the money to buy the ships, though, rather than the people at the pointy end. Life as an actual sailor on a slave ship sucked balls. Not as bad as being the cargo, of course, but fatalities per trip were still pretty high and unlike the slaves you were making the journey more than once. So, yeah, you'd need to make your seed money first with a mill or amazing advances in steam generation or whatever then you can make mad bank being a literally evil person. 
feedmegin fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 9, 2015 |
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Jan 9, 2015 21:26
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feedmegin posted:Mostly people with the money to buy the ships, though, rather than the people at the pointy end. Life as an actual sailor on a slave ship sucked balls. Not as bad as being the cargo, of course, but fatalities per trip were still pretty high and unlike the slaves you were making the journey more than once. Nah, you'd just leverage your maths skills to be an accountant and your absorbed wisdom of the concept of 'futures' and how capitalism works to work your way up.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:35
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feedmegin posted:Mostly people with the money to buy the ships, though, rather than the people at the pointy end. Life as an actual sailor on a slave ship sucked balls. Not as bad as being the cargo, of course, but fatalities per trip were still pretty high and unlike the slaves you were making the journey more than once. To get your seed money, copy the poo poo out of Harrison's marine chronometer, go back to 1720, and win yourself £20,000. Or just take back plans for this mechanical calculator and blow everybody's nips off. Just watch out for ol' Newton calling you a wizard or some poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:44
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Somehow, I feel like all of our adventures in history would be a lot less Lest Darkness Fall and a lot more The Man Who Came Early, if you know what I mean.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:47
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Rincewind posted:The Man Who Came Early, if you know what I mean.  everyone runs into the ol' interruptus once.
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Jan 9, 2015 21:51
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Rincewind posted:Somehow, I feel like all of our adventures in history would be a lot less Lest Darkness Fall and a lot more The Man Who Came Early, if you know what I mean. I don't know what you mean. Could you explain?
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Jan 9, 2015 21:56
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Alchenar posted:Nah, you'd just leverage your maths skills to be an accountant and your absorbed wisdom of the concept of 'futures' and how capitalism works to work your way up. Yeah, commodities futures would make you enormously wealthy within a few years. Heck, just knowing that you need to keep grain dry (so fix the roof and keep it on a platform a little off the ground and circulate some air around it) and that most years the crop somewhere will be poor and elsewhere will be great will make you enormously wealthy really quickly.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:08
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Davin Valkri posted:I don't know what you mean. "Lest Darkness Fall" is an alt-history novel in which a history professor finds himself just on the cusp of the "Dark Ages" (the book was written back in 1920 or so, when the Dark Ages was still considered a thing), whereupon he proceeds to try and change history by introducing the printing press to ensure that "darkness does not fall." To get there, he raises seed money by building a distillery, introducing double-entry bookkeeping, and trading on his predictions of the future for political favors. "The Man Who Came Early" is a story I haven't read yet but have been meaning to get around to, but if I recall aright it's about a US soldier who gets sent back in time to...I want to say Viking-era Iceland, somewhere in that region. He tries to use his knowledge of the future to improve conditions, but he soon finds that he doesn't actually have the practical knowledge, resources, or infrastructure to make what the locals would find useful, and what he CAN make the locals aren't really interested in, while his proposed social reforms just go over everybody's heads. So in other words, she's saying that if any given one of us were sent to the past, we'd most likely be hosed since we couldn't actually put most of our knowledge to use, as opposed to becoming kingpins thanks to FutureTech. I highly recommend picking up Lest Darkness Fall, incidentally - it was written back when alt-history stories didn't take themselves so seriously and weren't as obsessed with superior military hardware blasting the hell out of the backwards, barbarous natives of the past. It's just a simple, light-hearted romp through time and space.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:15
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Davin Valkri posted:I don't know what you mean. Tomn posted:"The Man Who Came Early" is a story I haven't read yet but have been meaning to get around to, but if I recall aright it's about a US soldier who gets sent back in time to...I want to say Viking-era Iceland, somewhere in that region. He tries to use his knowledge of the future to improve conditions, but he soon finds that he doesn't actually have the practical knowledge, resources, or infrastructure to make what the locals would find useful, and what he CAN make the locals aren't really interested in, while his proposed social reforms just go over everybody's heads.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:15
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I swear I saw an episode of the Twilight Zone once where this guy is obsessed with the Napoleonic Wars, fantasizes about being a brilliant commander if he was there, etc. He's somehow sent back in time and takes part in a battle only to be shot immediately and he has a limb amputated or something. I might have made this up entirely but either way, something like that is basically what I picture happening to most people if they ever went back in time.
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Jan 9, 2015 22:20
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