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isn't there an israel/palestine thread you can all gently caress off to and stop making this thread somehow even more poo poo than it normally is
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Jan 16, 2015 00:43
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LaughMyselfTo posted:They were holy poo poo horrifyingly common, too. Still are, unfortunately. 
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Jan 16, 2015 00:43
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm actually working for the lizards who want to turn all of the middle east into a giant sun rock for them to warm their bellies on to ensure they have plenty of energy for the future enslavement of mankind. So the Jews. Cool, me too. 
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Jan 16, 2015 00:46
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I've just basically stopped discussing the topic of anti-Semitism in leftist circles. It's more trouble than it's worth.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:52
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Not My Leg posted:
"Je étais" is gramatically incorrect as well, but on the whole the French in this cartoon is a lot better than I expected from Liccar. If only he spent as much effort on drawing Obama like an actual human being.
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Jan 16, 2015 00:52
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ladyboy pancake posted:Well Tatum you have to admit they have a rock-solid argument. Fates End over there is "pretty sure" that there isnt a significant overlap between Pro-Palestinians and anti-semites. I said "the more reasonable pro-Palestinians". In other words, the ones who would want to do something about anti-semitism, and the ones being spoken of in the post I was replying to.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:07
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I'm just mad they figured out I'm a triple agent, against both the right wing Israeli policies of expansion and oppression of minority groups AND against those same minority groups, I'm actually working for the lizards who want to turn all of the middle east into a giant sun rock for them to warm their bellies on to ensure they have plenty of energy for the future enslavement of mankind. Checkmate, reptoids.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:09
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Fates End posted:I said "the more reasonable pro-Palestinians". In other words, the ones who would want to do something about anti-semitism, and the ones being spoken of in the post I was replying to. That's a good point. A close look at our sample demographic revealed that there were no people who unreasonably hated jews after we removed the unreasonable people from the sample.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:12
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spacetoaster posted:Still are, unfortunately. Artificially raising moral standards to exclude things like being gay or enjoying sex only hurts you and makes you look like a hypocrite.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:17
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Randler posted:That's a good point. A close look at our sample demographic revealed that there were no people who unreasonably hated jews after we removed the unreasonable people from the sample. Do I really have to explain this? The post I was quoting: Tatum Girlparts posted:Kick them out of their causes? Like, when a dude starts bashing in Jewish windows, maybe don't join in? That post was in reply to this post: Prokhor Zakharov posted:So getting back to the original topic what should pro-Palestinians do about the fact that anti-semitism exists in the world? Which implies that the people in question would be people who want to do something about anti-semitism.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:18
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Fates End posted:Which implies that the people in question would be people who want to do something about anti-semitism. It doesn't. Tatum's entire argument revolves exactly around the premise that Pro-Palestine movement lacks willingless to do something about antisemitism.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:20
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What is worse, Latuff or Israel
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Jan 16, 2015 01:22
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Artificially raising moral standards to exclude things like being gay or enjoying sex only hurts you and makes you look like a hypocrite. Heh, stupid amoral democrats with their low moral standards. Excuse me while I go get random gay sex in an airport men's room stall.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:22
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Rorus Raz posted:Finally, the ten dollars and years of putting up with this thread's poo poo have paid off. I, David Icke, can finally make my move. Icked again!
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Jan 16, 2015 01:24
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KoldPT posted:What is worse, Latuff or Israel Obviously the worst is all jews everywh-WHOA almost got me there!
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Jan 16, 2015 01:25
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KoldPT posted:What is worse, Latuff or Israel Yes, they are.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:26
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KoldPT posted:What is worse, Latuff or Israel Latuff. Israel kills thousands and everything but Latuff is no angel.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:27
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 Guardian:  "Steve Bell on David Cameron's meeting with Barack Obama - The prime minister visits the White House on Friday as the first European leader to meet the president after the multiple shootings in Paris" Also, David Cameron: President Obama calls me ‘Bro’ Telegraph:  Free climbers reach El Capitan peak and make history Independent:  Times:  Yesterday's Mail:  Charlie Hebdo attack: Print run for new issue expanded Mail:  Bexleyheath Academy teacher Stuart Kerner sentenced for pupil affair
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Jan 16, 2015 01:27
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Cloud Potato posted:Yesterday's Mail: Rall had a head start and still got beat to the back of the line.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:29
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Randler posted:It doesn't. Tatum's entire argument revolves exactly around the premise that Pro-Palestine movement lacks willingless to do something about antisemitism. I thought that his advice had an unspoken "If they were willing to do something". Besides, unwillingness to do something about it does not imply that the people in question are willing to take part in attacks on Jews. Unless he's saying that all pro-Palestinians are anti-semites, in which case didn't he say that he wasn't saying that?
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Jan 16, 2015 01:29
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You know if we just killed the jews anti-semitism would stop.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:30
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Have some Jeff Boyer (Albany):  I really like that 1%er. Reminds me of Toles. Also, Mike Thompson (Detroit):  Basically everything else the past couple of days has been inane "WHY NO OBUMMER IN FRANCE???????" garbage, even from cartoonists who are usually good (like Steven Benson).
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Jan 16, 2015 01:31
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Cloud Potato posted:Times:
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Jan 16, 2015 01:33
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KoldPT posted:What is worse, Latuff or Israel I am very glad we're still talking about this. 
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Jan 16, 2015 01:38
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Any country that unironically calls itself the "Jewish State" deserves every cartoon it gets.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:41
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Panzeh posted:Any country that unironically calls itself the "Jewish State" deserves every cartoon it gets. Are you loving serious right now.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:42
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Afraid of Audio posted:Are you loving serious right now.  Jewish State
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Jan 16, 2015 01:45
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Afraid of Audio posted:Are you loving serious right now. I thought the emergence of the Islamic State would make it painfully obvious for you, but I guess not.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:46
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Jan 16, 2015 01:46
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Panzeh posted:Any country that unironically calls itself the "Jewish State" deserves every cartoon it gets. Israel: The Jewish ISIS? It's more likely than you think.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:47
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Just need to rename the US into The Christian Nation and we've got a party.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:48
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MariusLecter posted:Just need to rename the US into The Christian State and we've got a party. How about Uganda instead?
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Jan 16, 2015 01:48
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The Jewish people are cool, and the institution of the country of Israel isn't inherently bad either, but the government of Israel has done some really lovely things imo
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Jan 16, 2015 01:50
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While I think it's dumb as gently caress that Israel paints itself under the moniker that in and of itself is not grounds for mockery. The fact that Likud and the kinnesset are loving batshit are.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:51
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Afraid of Audio posted:While I think it's dumb as gently caress that Israel paints itself under the moniker that in and of itself is not grounds for mockery. Yeah but almost every Israeli dismisses the idea of the binational state because of the "demographic balance" which is an extremely imperialistic argument. Calling yourself the Jewish State also is an attempt to conflate Israel and the Jewish populations around the world, much the way the Islamic State claims to be representative of all Muslims around the world.
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Jan 16, 2015 01:54
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Is it insensitive to call the i/p thread a ghetto
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Jan 16, 2015 02:05
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Afraid of Audio posted:While I think it's dumb as gently caress that Israel paints itself under the moniker that in and of itself is not grounds for mockery. Actually of all the causes to disagree with a post ITT on, the name 'the Jewish State' actually gets a good deal of Jews upset because we're super supposed to not have one of those until the son of god comes to lead it so unless Bibi had some interesting parentage Israel is absolutely not 'the Jewish State' to a non zero amount of Jews, plus it's pretty clearly the zionist factions' way to erase the Arab/Muslim/African/etc citizens.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:06
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Hey, I know I'm a little late to the Latuffchat, but I just wanted to point out that this cartoon and this comment Latuff posted:Let´s check another example of biased movies from well-known Jewish cinema producers, Menahem Golan and Yoran Globus. In their 'Delta Force', German actress Hanna Schygulla plays an air hostess in a hijacked plane. She´s forced by sweaty beared Arab terrorists to list Jewish passengers. She refuses to do it, saying more or less this: 'I can't do that. Can't you see I am a German? The Jews, the Holocaust, the six millions...'. The Arab character replies: 'Six millions? It should be much more!'. In 'Missing in Action' series, where Chuck Norris plays a U.S. veteran who go back to Vietnam to rescue prisoners, Vietnamese are depicted as brutal and cruel psychos, what justify killing of many by Norris. appeared to be related. So I went ahead and looked Golan and Globus up. Wikipedia just tells me they're Israeli filmmakers who owned a production company and made a lot of movies. Most of which sound terrible. Their IMDB pages likewise double as galleries of shame, but IMDB doesn't exactly court controversy and these guys were seriously prolific with hundreds of credits. So I dug a little deeper, and found an old AV Club review by Nathan Rabin of The Forbidden Dance that I'd actually read before and forgotten about. He sums these guys up very well: Nathan Rabin posted:Long ago in a land far away, there lived a pair of cinematic visionaries/cousins named Menahem Golan and Yoram Globus. They had a simple dream: to use their company, Cannon Films, to make as much money as possible cranking out low-budget genre movies for undiscriminating international audiences. To aid them in their heroic quest, these titans of independent film joined forces with the toughest guys in the world, manly men with macho monikers like Charles Bronson and Chuck Norris, and, to a lesser extent, Michael Dudikoff, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Dolph Lundgren. The piece, which you guys should really read if you're interested in trashy movies, also includes an interview with Margot Kidder where she describes working with Golan on an adaptation of Crime and Punishment where he proudly rewrote Dostoyevsky and, incidentally, never actually paid them. This line seemed particularly relevant: Margot Kidder posted:And then he tried to cheat people, as Menahem will do. There was some lawsuit going on where he’d taken some American ship that he’d rented, shot it full of holes for a movie, returned it full of holes, and said it had been shot up in one of the many Palestinian-Israeli skirmishes. My attempts to confirm this particularly juicy story were stymied by the fact that Golan has, apparently, been involved in quite a number of lawsuits (not uncommon for producers) and shares his name with a major geopolitical hotspot. He died last year, so google was also flooded with obituaries, most of which don't really tell us that much except that he created a ton of bad movies, a few pretty good movies, and is largely responsible for the film careers of Chuck Norris and Jean-Claude Van Damme (both of whom seem to have gotten their start in sub-Rambo jingoist power-fantasies). I also found this interesting LA Times piece talking about Golan's then-upcoming Death Wish III and quoted Golan rather crassly claiming inspiration from the Bernie Goetz shootings: LA Times posted:Partly because of Goetz's shooting of four youths who asked him for money on the subway--and perhaps because a Manhattan Grand jury found his actions justified--Bronson agreed to an escalated level of violence in "Death Wish III," according to the film's co-producer. For those of you who don't know, Bernie Goetz was a white man who illegally brought a gun onto the New York subway and shot four black teenagers who were allegedly trying to rob him. Many people hailed the "Subway Vigilante" as a hero and the jury failed to convict him for the shooting (though he did serve eight months for the gun possession and later lost a civil suit to one of the men, who he'd left with brain damage and paraplegia). I don't know much about the Guardian Angels, but they were (still are?) quasi-vigilantes drawn from minority communities. Anyway, this last bit's off-topic, but I thought it was interesting. I'm getting a little rambly and long winded here and I'm not sure what point I was ever trying to make (except maybe that research is fun), so I'll just leave you a few more quick notes: The website https://arabface.us, which is perhaps a tad biased has this to say: some guy's website posted:Israeli Film producers Menachem Golan and Yoram Globus bought the American film company Cannon Films in the 1980s and produced a string of 26 virulent anti-Arab films like Hell Squad (1985), Invasion USA (1985), The Delta Force (1986), Delta Force II (1986), and Killing Streets (1991). These films pioneered the stereotype of Arab terrorists in action films and most of the Arabs were played as broad caricatures by Israeli actors in "arabface." I also found an interview with Jack Shaheen talking about anti-Arab prejudice (sadly, the stupid black ?s are from the original website): Arab American News posted:"(Arab) stereotypes are deeply ingrained in American cinema," Shaheen says in his book, "Reel Bad Arabs." "From 1896 until today, filmmakers have collectively indicted all Arabs as Public Enemy #1 � brutal, heartless, uncivilized religious fanatics and money-mad cultural "others" bent on terrorizing civilized Westerners� Much has happened since 1896... Throughout it all, Hollywood's caricature of the (Arab) has prowled the silver screen. He is there to this day � repulsive and unrepresentative as ever." So here's the thing. I don't know what the hell Latuff was thinking when he made that cartoon, but there are at least two Israeli filmmakers who were quite active in Hollywood and were perceived (by some people, at least) as being viciously anti-Arab. Latuff has clearly heard of these men and believes they and people like them are guilty of promoting politically-motivated hate speech. The question is, what does he mean by "people like them?" The yarmelke (really the only thing that makes that cartoon offensive) suggests he's blaming "Jews" in general, but I'm not sure he really meant it that way. I wonder if, to him, the "Jewishness" of the director is relevant not because the Jews are "schemers" (tm) or "control the media" (tm), (neither of which are likely to be myths with much currency in his native Brazil), but because it seemed relevant to a specific injustice he was decrying. There are, indeed, Israeli entertainment moguls out there who are both vocally pro-Israel and openly racist against Arabs (Haim Saban being just one example). In Latuff's worldview, antisemitism is largely abstract -- sure he's read about it, but I'm not sure he's really seen it, whereas anti-Arab rhetoric is very real, he's seen it in the movies, and the absolute worst offenders (to him at least) were Jews, so he drew one. When looked at that way, it's easy to see how he might Just. Not. Get. It.
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Jan 16, 2015 02:10
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drat. Dan Backslide has really gone dark after that incident with Dora Standpipe. But where's the Dover Boys?
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Jan 16, 2015 02:16
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Gilganixon posted:I am very glad we're still talking about this. Can I just say this is like a soothing balm over a radiation burn?
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Jan 16, 2015 02:18
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