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Dallan Invictus
Oct 11, 2007

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Spakstik posted:

The Empire of Britain. Up until a few minutes ago I didn't have the Kingdom of England since I'm playing as a merchant republic and couldn't usurp it.

As far as I remember they both have Middlesex as their capital anyway, so if WoL made that change it wouldn't matter which of those titles you had.

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binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

Torrannor posted:

I noticed this change in WoL, apparently you can't give away the de jure capital of your primary kindom, even if it isn't your actual capital. Is your primary title the Kingdom of England or Empire of Britain?

It was definitely in CM. Maybe RoI too, I don't remember that far back.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

Spakstik posted:

I've hit a bit of a snag that I haven't had much luck finding a solution for. I currently own all of England, and personally hold the county of Middlesex. For some reason I can't grant anyone else the county of Middlesex; it doesn't even show up in the list of possible titles I could grant. England (the faction) doesn't exist anymore, so the county isn't the goal of any wars, and I'm not at war with anyone. Since I started out in Ireland, my capital is not and has never been London. Any ideas why I can't give it away?

E: After a little more poking around, I think I may have figured out what the problem might be. This lady:


Even though her liege is my vassal, I'm not able to retract her vassalage.
She has to be your direct vassal for you to retract it. If you're willing to piss off the liege, you can transfer her to yourself.

ThomasPaine
Feb 4, 2009

We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.
God, I really wish you didn't have to tick so many boxes to duel a guy. Really, you should be able to challenge anyone who has dishonoured you in any way (and in viking land anyone at all)

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Vengarr posted:

I wish there was more feedback during/after battles. I like it when vassals die or do heroic poo poo, that makes you remember the battle as something other than two stacks bashing heads.

I once had some random-rear end lowborn courtier kill Seljuk himself in personal combat, so I gave him a hot wife, a fat pile of gold, and the Kingdom of Aquitaine. Sure, his stats weren't particularly great, but in my empire people get rewarded for their good work, dammit.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

ninjahedgehog posted:

I once had some random-rear end lowborn courtier kill Seljuk himself in personal combat, so I gave him a hot wife, a fat pile of gold, and the Kingdom of Aquitaine. Sure, his stats weren't particularly great, but in my empire people get rewarded for their good work, dammit.
Yeah, wouldn't be too difficult to hook up an event giving some prestige to the guy who killed a high-ranking foe. Special modifier, and/or a nickname. Wouldn't have any overhead to speak of, either, since it would all be done with triggered events.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

Spakstik posted:

I've hit a bit of a snag that I haven't had much luck finding a solution for. I currently own all of England, and personally hold the county of Middlesex. For some reason I can't grant anyone else the county of Middlesex; it doesn't even show up in the list of possible titles I could grant. England (the faction) doesn't exist anymore, so the county isn't the goal of any wars, and I'm not at war with anyone. Since I started out in Ireland, my capital is not and has never been London. Any ideas why I can't give it away?

E: After a little more poking around, I think I may have figured out what the problem might be. This lady:


Even though her liege is my vassal, I'm not able to retract her vassalage.

Why on earth would you want to give away the best county in Britannia?

Mahasamatman
Nov 8, 2006

Flame on the trail headed for the powder keg
Is there a way to get the Zealous trait? I want to duel people all day as a Muslim but the Theology focus hasn't given me zealous yet. :(

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
So if you defeat the iklhanate/golden horde on their initial attack, they apparently stick around forever as landless titles. That's kind of dumb.

Mahasamatman posted:

Is there a way to get the Zealous trait? I want to duel people all day as a Muslim but the Theology focus hasn't given me zealous yet. :(
You'd think theology would do it, but no. The best and most reliable way is actually probably the scholarship school. Go down the regular, non-lovecraftian route, and at the end, if you're not zunist or buddhist, you can burn your research to become zealous.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
There's a decent chance to pick up Zealous on a pilgrimage/hajj.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
Actually, looking at on_hajj.txt, it doesn't appear that it's possible to gain it there at all. About a 1 in 3 chance of getting it on pilgrimage, if you're aiming for it, but that doesn't help him.

FeculentWizardTits
Aug 31, 2001

Volkerball posted:

Why on earth would you want to give away the best county in Britannia?

Because I care more about pretty internal borders than levies or income at this point.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless
I have pretty borders minus the fact that I own all the good poo poo personally.

WhiteHowler
Apr 3, 2001

I'M HUGE!
How do you decide how to arrange your holdings after you form a kingdom?

In my Wales game, I've just formed the Kingdom of Brythoniaid. I currently hold two duchies (and have retained the Ducal title to both) and six counties. Three are part of my demense. The other three counties are held by various folks, none of them very high in the line of succession.

I'm finding that I'm always poor even in times of peace, and I feel like if I rearranged things better I could probably be getting a lot more cash and larger personal levies.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009

by FactsAreUseless

WhiteHowler posted:

How do you decide how to arrange your holdings after you form a kingdom?

In my Wales game, I've just formed the Kingdom of Brythoniaid. I currently hold two duchies (and have retained the Ducal title to both) and six counties. Three are part of my demense. The other three counties are held by various folks, none of them very high in the line of succession.

I'm finding that I'm always poor even in times of peace, and I feel like if I rearranged things better I could probably be getting a lot more cash and larger personal levies.

Plan ahead. Find badass duchies, and designate them as ones that you will personally hold. For instance, if there's a 4 county duchy with 2 counties that have 6 holdings, and 2 more counties with 4 holdings, take that duchy, and keep the two 6 holding counties for yourself personally. That will cover 2 counties in your demesne limit. Hold all the good stuff in your capital duchy as well, as they get a bonus. Also don't be afraid to move your capital later in the game to someplace better. For an example, if I was you, my goal would be to personally hold Middlesex and Essex in England (assuming I remember right and those two counties are in the same duchy), and make Middlesex my capital. Brugge in France is a good target for one of the random counties you own that isn't your capital. And use your money to build new holdings and upgrade holdings in counties you personally own as a priority.

cerror
Feb 11, 2008

I have a bad feeling about this...


Should I just commit suicide and get it over with?

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

Are there any tricks as Zunists to get the extra 20% moral authority you need to reform, or is it just a matter of declaring endless county conquests and building as many temples as you can afford?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

BBJoey posted:

Are there any tricks as Zunists to get the extra 20% moral authority you need to reform, or is it just a matter of declaring endless county conquests and building as many temples as you can afford?
I had to conquer my way to Baghdad before I could reform. 10% you can get that way, 20% isn't really particularly feasible.

Of course, the Abbasids had to mostly collapse under three decadence revolts first.

Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jan 16, 2015

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe

comaerror posted:



Should I just commit suicide and get it over with?

Pretty sure there is no downside to this.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
If I'm feudal, I want to fill my demesne holdings with castles, and maybe the odd city here and there, right?

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

Doctor Schnabel posted:

If I'm feudal, I want to fill my demesne holdings with castles, and maybe the odd city here and there, right?
Depends. If you're a Catholic heretic (and thus your temple vassals don't give a poo poo about the pope), bishoprics are pretty amazing. And without a reliable source of money, all the soldiers in the world don't mean jack. Personally, I tend to stick as close to 50/50 Castles/Not Castles as I can, erring towards Not Castles for odd numbers.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009
Can someone give me a quick overview on bastards? I'm given the option to legitimize them at birth, right? Can I do so afterwards? Also, do legitimized bastards come normally in the order of succession by birth order as usual, or are they bumped behind born-legitimate offspring?

Morzhovyye
Mar 2, 2013

Doctor Schnabel posted:

If I'm feudal, I want to fill my demesne holdings with castles, and maybe the odd city here and there, right?

I'd fill my capital county completely with castles, and then cities in any other holding. The 50% bonus to levies in your capital county is too much to pass up.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Sucrose posted:

Can someone give me a quick overview on bastards? I'm given the option to legitimize them at birth, right? Can I do so afterwards? Also, do legitimized bastards come normally in the order of succession by birth order as usual, or are they bumped behind born-legitimate offspring?

At birth, if you're known to be a bastard's father, you get three options: Legitimize, Acknowledge, Denounce.

Legitimize gives the child full inheritance rights, and will royally piss off your wife and your legitimate kids. A legitimized bastard slots in wherever a fully legitimate kid would in the inheritance pecking order, and will get appropriate claims on your poo poo upon your death like the rest of your kids.

Acknowledge gives the child no inheritance rights, but you retain the ability to legitimize them later. This will piss off your wife, but your kids won't care. If the child remains unacknowledged when they marry or when you die, you lose the option to legitimize and when they have kids of their own, they will start their own new dynasty.

Denounce removes you entirely as the child's parent, permanently (though the game still tracks it under the hood for inbreeding purposes). You cannot acknowledge or legitimize a bastard once denounced. The child's mother will hate your guts for this.

There are two other possible scenarios:

(1) if the mother is single the father might simply be unknown. In this case you will never be able to acknowledge or legitimize.

(2) If the mother is married, her husband might believe the child is his, in which case the game also treats the child as his for inheritance/dynasty purposes (but once again keeps track of the biological father behind the scenes for inbreeding purposes.)

Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Jan 16, 2015

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Eric the Mauve posted:

At birth, if you're known to be a bastard's father, you get three options: Legitimize, Acknowledge, Denounce.

Legitimize gives the child full inheritance rights, and will royally piss off your wife and your legitimate kids. A legitimized bastard slots in wherever a fully legitimate kid would in the inheritance pecking order, and will get appropriate claims on your poo poo upon your death like the rest of your kids.

Acknowledge gives the child no inheritance rights, but you retain the ability to legitimize them later. This will piss off your wife, but your kids won't care. If the child remains unacknowledged when they marry or when you die, you lose the option to legitimize and when they have kids of their own, they will start their own new dynasty.

Denounce removes you entirely as the child's parent, permanently (though the game still tracks it under the hood for inbreeding purposes). You cannot acknowledge or legitimize a bastard once denounced. The child's mother will hate your guts for this.

There are two other possible scenarios:

(1) if the mother is single the father might simply be unknown. In this case you will never be able to acknowledge or legitimize.

(2) If the mother is married, her husband might believe the child is his, in which case the game also treats the child as his for inheritance/dynasty purposes (but once again keeps track of the biological father behind the scenes for inbreeding purposes.)

Cool thanks.

If acknowledged and later legitimized, will they slot into the inheritence in order of their birth order, or from when they were legitimized?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT
Your other kids don't care about legitimizing bastards for very long. It's -50, but it only lasts a year.

Seems like other legitimized bastards shouldn't have quite the same reaction, but eh.

Sucrose posted:

If acknowledged and later legitimized, will they slot into the inheritence in order of their birth order, or from when they were legitimized?
Birth order.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
Note that with the Seduction focus, cranking out bastards (preferably by inviting women to your court who have Genius/Quick/Strong and then seducing them), waiting for them to get into their teens and then legitimizing whichever one you want to inherit and only that one so he gets everything is a viable strategy, even with Gavelkind. (Marry an old and/or celibate wife strictly for the stats, except Intrigue because she'll hate your guts. Generally high Diplomacy/low Intrigue or high Stewardship/low Intrigue is the way to go. Alternatively, go ahead and marry a high Intrigue woman if she's foreign and a different religion, no one in your court will like her enough to go along with her plot to kill you.) Just be careful not to Game Over yourself via biting the big one before legitimizing any of your sons.

Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jan 16, 2015

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009

Eric the Mauve posted:

Note that with the Seduction focus, cranking out bastards (preferably by inviting women to your court who have Genius/Quick/Strong and then seducing them), waiting for them to get into their teens and then legitimizing whichever one you want to inherit and only that one so he gets everything is a viable strategy, even with Gavelkind. (Marry an old and/or celibate wife strictly for the stats, except Intrigue because she'll hate your guts. Generally high Diplomacy/low Intrigue or high Stewardship/low Intrigue is the way to go. Alternatively, go ahead and marry a high Intrigue woman if she's foreign and a different religion, no one in your court will like her enough to go along with her plot to kill you.) Just be careful not to Game Over yourself via biting the big one before legitimizing any of your sons.

Ok thanks.

Hmm, maybe I'll just minimize risk instead and just see how many children I can get the old-fashioned way with a wife and three concubines. Although an all-bastard way of succession does sound intriguing.

Another Person
Oct 21, 2010

Volkerball posted:

You don't think a lone count holding the capital should be allowed to have claims pressed against it by the person who holds the other two counties? To me that sounds like an illegitimate ruler who you should be allowed to overthrow. Interesting discussion to be had on this though.

Oh no, not at all. They just shouldn't be able to do it right from the start. All land is not made equal. Captials are typically built on or close by to resources, and because of that, they are a centre of trade and economy. They are there because there is something good about that land that nowhere close by had in the same quality or quantity. People would flock to those locations because there was work to be found there and a better living. It makes sense that the actual capital should have a higher sway in a duchy than the scrublands which provide less men and less resources.

For example, I happen to know due to living there that in Gwynedd, Perfeddewlad had a lot of waste land on it in the timeframe of the game, due to the fact that it is below sea level and marshlands. Why would or should that crap land have an equal claim to Gwynedd proper? However, if you spent a few years intentionally building on that rubbish land, fortifying and drawing men and women into the towns due to upgrades to trade and security, then perhaps then it can start to look significant, and gain power in claiming.

One person may hold 2 pieces of land to the 1 of the actual ruler, however, if the landowner of the 2 pieces holds crap lands where people actually don't want to live, which draw low taxes and raise small levies (the game already models this), why would they appear as significant as the capital? Power was not, and still is not, distributed as equally across the land as it is currently in the game, and it goes part of the way there in the holdings being lesser, but it does not reflect that reality past that point.

The reason I argue for this is because by making the lands even more unequal, it actually does make for interesting gameplay changes, such as the system of improving your holdings to try and equal or better the claim of the actual duke.

Another Person fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Jan 16, 2015

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade
If the rest of the Duchy is that bad then the Duke should have no trouble De-Jure warring for one of the other counties or even claim waring the duchy back.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax

Shadeoses posted:

Pretty sure there is no downside to this.

The one time I got that event it gave me a game over.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
So the pope's lounging around in some bishopric in the low countries after those nasty lombards took rome. Is there anything i can do as a fellow catholic to get him back where he belongs?

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Doctor Schnabel posted:

So the pope's lounging around in some bishopric in the low countries after those nasty lombards took rome. Is there anything i can do as a fellow catholic to get him back where he belongs?

Conquer Rome. I think you get a decision to restore the Papacy afterwards.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Doctor Schnabel posted:

So the pope's lounging around in some bishopric in the low countries after those nasty lombards took rome. Is there anything i can do as a fellow catholic to get him back where he belongs?

If you take Rome yourself, you'll get a decision to restore the pope.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice
Does that still cause the game to end because it turns you into a Theocracy?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Does that still cause the game to end because it turns you into a Theocracy?

No you're thinking of the situation when the Papacy has been totally destroyed and you re-create it - this is a different decision where the Pope already exists but doesn't control Rome - all it does is gives Rome to him, it doesn't make you Pope.

Soup du Journey
Mar 20, 2006

by FactsAreUseless
Ok, another question: after I converted to catholicism from norse, my custom coat of arms keeps changing to something random each time i reload. any way to fix that?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Doctor Schnabel posted:

Ok, another question: after I converted to catholicism from norse, my custom coat of arms keeps changing to something random each time i reload. any way to fix that?
Nope. It's a bug that's been around for a while.

Jamsque
May 31, 2009
Speaking of long-running bugs, Grand Tournaments still never end and the 'prisoner asks for better accommodation' event still never fires.

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Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X

Jamsque posted:

Speaking of long-running bugs, Grand Tournaments still never end and the 'prisoner asks for better accommodation' event still never fires.

I believe those are similar bugs--when you go to war during a Tournament I think there's supposed to be an event that ends the tournament (similar to what happens with hunts or feasts) but it doesn't fire and the tournament never ends.

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