|
Oxxidation posted:I rewatched Let's Kill Hitler in preparation for the inevitable carnage in Occ's thread. The River parts of it aren't good. I know that there are people who rant and rave about how terrible River or Alex Kingston is and this makes anyone who complains about her sound like they are ranting and raving, but in that episode in particular, the River parts of the story are quite bad. I liked confident, fast-learning and practical archaeologist River, that she is also part Time Lord somehow and also the daughter of the Doctor's companions and also a sleeper assassin programmed by a cult does sort of throw her characterization out the window, and it wasn't even required for the season arc. It is really fun to watch Rory punch Hitler in the face and stuff him in the cupboard, though. I'm normally not big on using World War II symbols and people, but when it's pure To Be or Not to Be-level buffoonery like bopping Hitler on the schnoz and cramming him in a closet, okay.
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 14:51
|
|
v
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:38 |
|
|
Watching Kill the Moon as I get caught up on season 8 and can't help thinking of the Mr. Show sketch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csj7vMKy4EI "We're blowing it up during a FULL moon so we make sure we get it all"
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 18:44
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:It is really fun to watch Rory punch Hitler in the face and stuff him in the cupboard, though. I'm normally not big on using World War II symbols and people, but when it's pure To Be or Not to Be-level buffoonery like bopping Hitler on the schnoz and cramming him in a closet, okay. "Can you drive a motorcycle?" "I suppose so... it's just that sort of day." Rory was just so great. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:"Can you drive a motorcycle?" I initially thought Rory was just some sort of schlubby, awkward guy that was more intended for us to laugh at than care about. Like early Mickey Smith. The best part about Rory about that, though, was that he stayed like that. Mickey slowly became a more serious, genuine character, but Rory was always just sort of weird and awkward, despite constantly being given ridiculous, badass contexts like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:I initially thought Rory was just some sort of schlubby, awkward guy that was more intended for us to laugh at than care about. Like early Mickey Smith. I liked when he was in the mind-reading space-minotaur hotel-jail that existed to make your worst nightmares manifest and all it could do was politely ask him to leave.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 23:04
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:I liked when he was in the mind-reading space-minotaur hotel-jail that existed to make your worst nightmares manifest and all it could do was politely ask him to leave. Haha, that was so great. Hotel: Jesus Christ dude, what the gently caress can we even do to you that hasn't happened already?
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
Flatline is arguably the best episode of season 8, and the second episode in a row from Who newcomer Jamie Mathieson (though it was the first he wrote). A Doctor-light episode that still manages to feature the Doctor prominently and consistently throughout the episode, a comedy that manages to be creepy, a drama that manages to be funny, a special effects spook-show that manages to be character-driven - it's basically got a little bit of everything going for it. It easily and naturally takes everything that has been building up throughout the season and furthers them, allowing us to question the "goodness" of a character like the Doctor while celebrating and thrilling to his actions. It explores Clara's newfound embracing of the Doctor as a person she not only admires and cares for, but actually LIKES and wants to emulate, in a way that manages to make her look smart, pro-active and independent while also calling into question the type of person she herself is becoming and the potentially negative influence the Doctor is having on her. It's... I mean.... it's a really loving good episode, basically. The Doctor lands in Bristol rather than London, but rather than accepting that maybe he just screwed up yet another landing he insists that he did everything right, and there is some exterior cause for the TARDIS not being where it should be. He's soon backed up on this when he and Clara discover that the doors to the TARDIS are smaller than usual, and in a comedic moment they exit the TARDIS to discover it is now roughly 2/3rds its normal exterior size. It remains just as big as ever on the inside, and the Doctor is thrilled because he has not only encountered something he doesn't understand, but something he doesn't understand in relation to a subject he knows EVERYTHING about - dimensions. He sends Clara out to have a look around and see if she can find any other odd aberrations while he returns to the inside of the TARDIS, only for things to escalate as the interior doors shrink even further, and the TARDIS exterior to become CONSIDERABLY smaller.   So far it's all been played for comedy, but there are darker things going on. In the cold open, a man on the phone to the police was frantically explaining that he'd "figured it out" when he suddenly disappeared, only for his horrified face to be seen from a particular angle pressed into a flat plane on the wall, much like Holbein's Skull. Clara's initial walk-around saw her bump into some "Community payback scum", people doing community service to work off minor criminal offenses, including a local graffiti artist called Rigsy (Joivan Wade from Mandem On The Wall). Apparently people have been going missing, and along the walls of a pedestrian tunnel somebody has painted each of the victims standing with their backs to the viewer, apparently as some kind of tribute. One of the victims is Rigsy's own aunt, and the police have been less than helpful when it comes to figuring out what is going on. When Clara returns to the TARDIS and finds it miniaturized, she's amused by the Doctor's predicament (he's still full size inside, and thus can't get out) and pops him into her purse to carry him around with her, an earpiece allowing the Doctor to communicate with her as well as see through her eyes thanks to some nano-tech that he pumps into her brain without even asking her first. Clara is still treating this all like fun and games, greatly enjoying teasing the Doctor as she takes his name and basically does an impersonation of him as she seeks more information. With help from Rigsy, she goes to the home of one of the victims and postulates that maybe the victims have just been made tiny, which causes Rigsy to assume she's mad as a hatter until she introduces him to the Doctor inside the tiny TARDIS. The two join up with a police officer (Clara is using the telepathic paper to pretend to be from MI5) and investigate another victim's home, leading to a hilarious Hammerspace! moment - but this also marks the point where it finally dawns on Clara that this isn't just a fun ol' time and that something distinctly terrifying is going on.   It's been a very deliberate choice I think to have Clara herself not particularly taking things seriously till this moment. Hearing the police woman's screams, she and Rigsy rush into the room where the Doctor spots the rather pretty tree-like pattern on the wall and figures out he is looking at a 2-dimensional human nervous system (  ), and that the odd desert-like pattern in the previous apartment was flat human skin. The things responsible for the disappearances and the TARDIS' exterior shrinking are beings from a till-now theoretical 2-dimensional plane of existence. It's at this point that the episode teeters before plunging directly into creepy quasi-base under siege horror, both in terms of comedy as well as - quite rightly - the Doctor's insistence that they not jump to conclusions over whether the 2d creatures are intentionally hostile. The identification of the "monsters" is only the start point, and despite all evidence indicating that they are hostile it is absolutely right that the Doctor should point out that they may be unaware they are doing harm, after all would WE know if we were hurting 5th dimensional beings while conducting scientific experiments on quarks or dark matter or something. That they eventually prove to be not only hostile but sadistic (they not only identify their most recent victim, but taunt them with who the next will be) is beside the point, the Doctor will not pre-judge them, which makes the moment when he DOES stand in judgment of them all the more powerful. Clara is a sight to behold in this episode, it is perhaps the best sustained performance and the best consistent writing Jenna Coleman has had in a single episode, even if there have been stronger individual moments in other places - like her tearing the Doctor a new one in Kill the Moon. As a Doctor-light episode, Clara has to shoulder the weight of being the main star, even if editing is able to make the Doctor a constant presence, and both the character and the actor more than meet the challenge. Throughout the season, Clara's relationship with fellow teacher Danny Pink has been an ongoing thing, with Clara struggling to keep her real world/TARDIS life separate, then struggling to reconcile them, then finally eagerly separating them again so she can continue on enjoying the benefits of both. Of course she can't put the cat back in the bag, and it's less than an episode before Danny is already having suspicions that something isn't quite right. In perhaps the only real sour note to the episode, during an admittedly funny scene where Clara and Rigsy are attempting to escape the 2d creatures, Clara bizarrely chooses to answer a phonecall from Danny and lie to him about what is happening (it SOUNDS like she's having tremendous sex, though thankfully Danny doesn't fall for that tired old misunderstanding gag). It seems like it was mandated that there HAD to be a scene where Clara/Danny interaction had to happen to further that storyline, and Mathieson couldn't figure out any other place to squeeze it in. Other than that though (and even that is well done outside of the face she answered the phone at all), Clara is just wonderful, from her initial bemused impersonation of the Doctor's characteristics to her smooth ability to take control of the situation from the rather revolting Fenton (Christopher Fairbank). The natural way she takes control of the mad situation, the way her mind races to come up with solutions, she basically makes the point better than any theoretical argument ever could that a woman could easily play the role of the Doctor. Best of all, after spending most of the episode getting direction from the Doctor, when they lose the ability to communicate she is forced to work out her own solutions and manages to do so. While her trick to fool the 2d creatures into restoring the TARDIS is the most showy, perhaps the best moment comes when Rigsy prepares to sacrifice himself by crashing the train into the creatures and she smoothly and cleverly shows him how unnecessary his noble gesture will be. She gains respect throughout the episode, both from the viewers and the characters - note how the Doctor begins by being somewhat patronizing towards her, commenting that he's already thought of and dismissed theories she comes up with for example. Soon though he's becoming impressed with the things she is doing, and when he thinks he is about to die he openly admits how impressive a job she has done. He patronizingly explains to her that he always makes sure the full weight of the TARDIS isn't in place, but she is the one who comes up with the "Addams Family" solution to his predicament on the train tracks (which is incredible), and she is the one who uses all the information present throughout the events of the episode to work out how to turn the 2d creatures own powers again them. But even better than all that is the way the episode ends. Consider that at the start of the episode, Clara is babbling as she struggles to maintain the fiction that Danny knows of her continuing adventures in the TARDIS and is okay with it, and at the end of the episode she not only dismisses his phone-call without a thought but almost distractedly lies to the Doctor about Danny not being the one calling her. She's come through the struggle with the 2d creatures and changed as a result, and her gleeful, near-smug reveling in her success, particularly in regards to the fact people died, causes the Doctor to deliver her a devastatingly frank statement warning about the dark side of being just like him - "You were an exceptional Doctor, Clara.... goodness had nothing to do with it." It's a fantastic closer that not only serves to remind us of the season-long narrative of whether the Doctor is a good person or not, but show us how he is having a potentially negative influence on Clara herself, who in this episode we've seen lie to the Doctor, her boyfriend, and casually gloss over the deaths of any number of innocent people because she "won" and beat the bad guys.   The 2d Creatures (not named until the climax of the episode) are wonderfully developed across the episode. Initially unseen, with characters/viewers only witnessing the aftermath of their actions, they start to appear first as almost watery tendrils spreading down walls and across floors. But then as their experiments continue and they become more familiar with the strange "3d" world they're exploring, they themselves begin to adopt these traits in truly terrifying ways. In one of the more chilling moments, as Clara's party discuss their options while hiding in the underground tunnel, in the far background you see a shadowy object emerge slowly from the roof. Taking form, it rushes forwards, only really registered at the last moment as a giant fist grips onto one of the community service workers and hauls him backwards and up into the roof. The 2d Creatures have figured out how to take on a frightfully incomplete 3d form, and the way they lurch up out of the ground and stumble forward, not quite so much fully formed as they are simply 2d forms constantly circling around an empty shape that forms the impression of a 3 dimensional form. That truly alien nature makes them so frightening, because even when they're trying to be like us, they're so clearly NOT that it stands out even more - these are a terrifying creation of Jamie Mathieson's, and though I don't doubt another writer could do something interesting with them, I do hope that we never see them again - they're so incredibly used in this episode, so incredibly removed at the end, that I can't help but feel their quality would be considerably diluted by a return.   Even though this is a Doctor-light episode, you wouldn't know it from how well the Doctor is incorporated into the story. But there is ONE moment in particular that stands out, a moment that compares well with and may even surpass the "Doctor moment" in Mummy on the Orient Express. Locked in the TARDIS in siege-mode, the Doctor is helpless and can't even see or hear what is going on outside through Clara - he has figured out how to stop the 2d creatures and return them to their own plane but can't put his plan into action, so helpless he simply stands and tries to figure out the right last words to tell Clara. But then Clara's (wonderful) plan works and the TARDIS is restored to power and the correct dimensions, and that's the moment where the Doctor comes into his own in an utterly astounding "moment" where Capaldi once again proves that he IS the Doctor, that he has perfectly captured the character we've been following in one way or the other for the last 50 years. The 2d creatures are forced back by the returning TARDIS and blocked behind a forcefield they can't penetrate, and the Doctor speaks: The Doctor posted:I tried to talk. I want you to remember that. I tried to reach out, I tried to understand you.... but I think that you understand us perfectly.... and I think you just don't care. I don't know whether you are here to invade, infiltrate or just replace us.... I don't suppose it really matters now.... you are MONSTERS! That is the role you seem determined to play, so it seems I must play mine..... the man that stops the monsters! I'm sending you back to your own dimension, who knows, some of you may even survive the trip... and if you do, remember this, you are not welcome here! This plane is protected! I am the Doctor.... and I name you the Boneless!    It is an incredible moment, sold perfectly by Capaldi as the Doctor. It is basically a wizard/shaman banishing demons by naming them and robbing them of their power, but that is fine, that works, that is great. Now to be fair, the actual mechanics of what he did are quite deliberately left vague, but it really doesn't matter because even though it boils down to the Doctor shooing them away, it's something earned throughout the episode. The Doctor notes early in the episode that he's upset that he can't figure out how to fix the problem since weird dimensions are very much within his areas of expertise, but given time to observe, attempt communication, and see how they operate, he's able to do something with the TARDIS pumping power into the sonic to, to put it bluntly, "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow". It's technobabble nonsense of course, but its referenced throughout the episode that he is trying to work out how to deal with them and getting closer each time. You have to accept the premise of aliens from a 2dimensional reality in the first place, but I feel they earned the resolution of "Time traveling alien genius observes and collects data, then uses it in conjunction with his intimate knowledge of controlling spatial dimensions to kick them back to their own universe". And of course, it was all secondary to the impact of the moment, of seeing and hearing the Doctor stand in judgment of the "Boneless" (and wow, what a name!) and cast them out. Flatline is perhaps the best episode of season 8. It is wonderful from a character development standpoint for Clara in particular, and further hammers home that the Doctor is THE Doctor just like the previous episode did. It's creepy, it's funny, it's got some wonderful supporting characters, a fantastic new "monster", it looks great, and has a tremendous resolution. There's a lot more to the episode than I've covered and I've already written far too much, but seriously if you haven't seen this episode watch it as soon as you can, and if you have watched it then watch it again because it sure as hell holds up to another viewing. After half a season of interesting but somewhat frustrating development of the new Doctor and how Clara has been reacting to him, the last two episodes have been wonderful for seeing him finally established in place and witnessing the strengthening bond between Clara and the Doctor that IS rather than her lamenting/hoping for the Doctor that WAS. After two of the best episodes of the season, I was in high hopes for what was to come because it felt like the season had finally settled in and was delivering the goods. The very next episode was In the Forest of the Night. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
Random thought but "The Boneless" is a really dumb name. Makes them sound kind of like chicken wings. It's so dumb my mind rejected it and just flat out refused to understand what the Doctor called them, I had to look it up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:01
|
|
|
I love the name, I thought it summed them up pretty well both from a physical standpoint as well as the fact they're basically cruel, cowardly creatures who attacked those who couldn't fight back and taunted them as they did it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:08
|
|
|
I think the season might have been better served if they had sandwiched forest of the trees in between mummy and flatline, but I don't know how to make the Clara and Danny stuff work to accommodate that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:11
|
|
|
Yeah, the name fell completely flat to me, as did the rest of the speech, actually. The rest of the episode was fantastic but for some reason I just find it really hard to buy Capaldi's Big Doctor Speeches (except the one about being an idiot in the finale, that was good). I didn't like the idea of the Doctor bestowing a name on them at all, he's not the one who's been fighting them all episode and at the time it felt like they just needed to have an official name so the BBC knew what to call them when updating their website. I do like it a little more now, thinking of it as a naming something to give yourself power over it thing (although I think traditionally that's using a name they already have rather than giving something a new name).
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:37
|
|
|
While I can agree that I don't want the Boneless to become oversaturated, I love them enough that I want to see more of them. They're a great tool for making things that are just plain wrong; some of their work in Flatline is fantastic in making things terrifying in an unorthodox way. It's hard to describe how a flattened picture of a train on a wall is scary, but it still is, in its own way. The idea of a monster that can alter physical dimensions is ripe for loads of great sights that would be awesome to see crop up every so often over the years, although I'd struggle to think of a story/setting that would really suit them. An under-siege story set in an art gallery? Maybe their attempts to understand 3D reality result in MC Escher-style landscapes, because they haven't quite got it right. EDIT: vv I think a partially animated episode would work for it, but not a full-on thing. It'd be a great way to convey the nature of being 'flattened' and how that kills, but doing any more than that would demean their terror. Plus, it'd come close to giving them voice, and they're better off just being extradimensional bullies. Incomprehensible to our own perceptions, except for 'they're dicks'. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jan 17, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:47
|
|
|
What about an animated episode?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 03:51
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:While I can agree that I don't want the Boneless to become oversaturated, I love them enough that I want to see more of them. They're a great tool for making things that are just plain wrong; some of their work in Flatline is fantastic in making things terrifying in an unorthodox way. It's hard to describe how a flattened picture of a train on a wall is scary, but it still is, in its own way. The idea of a monster that can alter physical dimensions is ripe for loads of great sights that would be awesome to see crop up every so often over the years, although I'd struggle to think of a story/setting that would really suit them. An under-siege story set in an art gallery? Maybe their attempts to understand 3D reality result in MC Escher-style landscapes, because they haven't quite got it right. Maybe they can tie in with those Space-time paintings from the 50th.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
Doctor Who Framed Roger Rabbit
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
Netflix is keeping Doctor Who
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 04:23
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:I love the name, I thought it summed them up pretty well both from a physical standpoint as well as the fact they're basically cruel, cowardly creatures who attacked those who couldn't fight back and taunted them as they did it. I hated the name. The name should've been something more closely related to their nature. 12 could have easily called them the Skinless, the Bloodless, the Shirtless, the Nailless, the Eyeless... (Maybe someone could come up with some analogs between their bodies and hours? If that was done, then you could probably find something that gives their bodies order/structure... their equivalent to bones...)
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
A race of unknowable, impossible to understand beings from a universe with rules entirely alien to our own, bent on our destruction? The Divergents.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
But losing Red Dwarf, Fawlty Towers, and Blackadder
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 05:18
|
|
|
Doctor Who is saved, but at what cost?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 05:38
|
|
|
There should have been another way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 06:56
|
|
|
The Horror of Flix Rock
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 08:15
|
|
|
Organza Quiz posted:A race of unknowable, impossible to understand beings from a universe with rules entirely alien to our own, bent on our destruction? Only they got a story that made them cool as hell instead of lame as gently caress 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 10:40
|
|
|
I'd watch Flatline but with awkward boring chameleon people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 14:07
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:The very next episode was In the Forest of the Night.  Godspeed, J-Ru.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 14:40
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:There should have been another way. Let that be your last yearly licence negotiation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 15:46
|
|
|
After The War posted:Let that be your last yearly licence negotiation. ... at 20 credit per unit?!? TWENTYYYYYYYYYY............
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
RunAndGun posted:... at 20 credit per unit?!? TWENTYYYYYYYYYY............ Oh, come on, you could pay that with a 20 narg note (redeemable on any of the Nine Planets) and still have change for a visit to the Leisure Hive.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2015 19:01
|
|
|
God, I love this group.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 00:49
|
|
|
Colin Baker has been active: Making a spot for NASA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPSN4PwL1Mg Will be appearing on Star Trek Continues as Planetary leader or something. Also some Big Finish stuff on this interview: http://whatculture.com/tv/doctor-interview-colin-baker.php Choice quote: "Perhaps people should watch TV with bags over their heads so they only hear my voice!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 01:56
|
|
|
Calling a Bag Confiscation Team to DoctorWhat's house! Hopefully he won't have locked all the doors yet and they can still get in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
I was hooting like Daffy Duck at that NASA ad, I'm so goddamn predictable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
So after seeing Paddington, the kiddo looked up at me and said "Someone should write a Twelfth Doctor story with Paddington in it!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 02:46
|
|
|
"And that is a chair with a Paddington on it. Sheer poetry, my dear boy."
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
So this might be a good time to ask- I'm going on a road trip with my mother soon, and she likes Doctor Who, but hasn't seen much classic series (just some three and four), but she liked Colin Baker in the 5-ish Doctors, and she was intrigued when I described 6 and Evelyn as a bickering old couple in the Tardis, so I was going to prepare a couple audios for her but... it's been so long since I listened to them I can't remember which ones I should pick! We've got time for two full audios, and while I remember loving Jubilee, I felt it might be too gruesome for her. And she's not as inherently a fan of Daleks as one could be. Might go for it anyway, but only as a 2nd story. I was also thinking maybe an 8 audio instead. She's already heard Chimes of Midnight though. Whatever it is, she's probably not going to continue on her own, so I want something nice and satisfying by itself, rather than something purely introductory (like, I don't remember being too impressed by 8's first audio). So yeah. A pair of nice 6/Evelyn audios, or maybe an 8th doctor one, that one's mother might be interested in. Any suggestions? I've listened to them all, I just have a terrible memory for them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Eiba posted:6/Evelyn audios Doctor Who and the Pirates, maybe?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 03:13
|
|
|
The Marian Conspiracy and The Spectre of Lanyon Moor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 03:58
|
|
|
Eiba posted:So this might be a good time to ask- I'm going on a road trip with my mother soon, and she likes Doctor Who, but hasn't seen much classic series (just some three and four), but she liked Colin Baker in the 5-ish Doctors, and she was intrigued when I described 6 and Evelyn as a bickering old couple in the Tardis, so I was going to prepare a couple audios for her but... it's been so long since I listened to them I can't remember which ones I should pick! My Own Private Wolfgang is only 25 minutes, but it's so good.. The Marian Conspiracy and Langyon Moor are also super good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
For Eight, try Seasons of Fear.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:38 |
|
|
Multiple People posted:The Marian Conspiracy and The Spectre of Lanyon Moor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2015 05:21
|
|