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Amppelix posted:Did you just try to argue that Melee somehow has objectively better music than Smash 4 Smash 4 has more. That doesn't mean that, on average, Smash 4 has more great sounding tracks. As an example, Melee had the best Mute City of the entire SSB series. Brawl and 4 don't even come close there. Chakram posted:You're done. You can argue Smash 4 has more (and it better loving well, Melee's 13 years older and I'm betting was developed on a smaller budget) content, but don't tell me that the game made a better use of what it had available to it than Melee did. And holy gently caress please don't tell me with a straight face that the 8 player classic and the orders are good game design. This game needs a story mode of some kind bad and it's really missing it. The worst submarine posted:The mechanics and stages are better in this as far as I can tell, most people who still play melee competitively would continue to play melee regardless of how good wii u smash is. You are a defensive god in Smash 4 if you hit the L button a lot and sometimes pair it with a down. It has never been easier to power shield a move than in this game, and if I'm not mistaken it's possible to power shield regardless of shield size. Smash 4 is really defensive and for a lot of characters does not really reward a hit. The really bad stages (Pyrosphere, Wily's Castle) completely take over the game with their gimmicks, and the gimmicks wear themselves out really fast. It comes off as if they thought Omega Mode meant they could go hog wild with the hazards this time around. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 11:01
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Chakram posted:He is trying to imply that the single-player content in any fighting game matters. If they're good, then yeah, Melee and 64 had some great single-player content that made the game fun to play alone. Break the Targets was exceptional and the Adventure/Classic Modes were fast enough to go through every now and then just to one-up your previous score. I won't play 4 unless I have friends over or some goons to play against. All the singleplayer content in this is just a giant clusterfuck that doesn't reward player skill so it's not worth revisiting.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:14
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Sire Oblivion posted:If they're good, then yeah, Melee and 64 had some great single-player content that made the game fun to play alone. Break the Targets was exceptional and the Adventure/Classic Modes were fast enough to go through every now and then just to one-up your previous score. I won't play 4 unless I have friends over or some goons to play against. All the singleplayer content in this is just a giant clusterfuck that doesn't reward player skill so it's not worth revisiting. The events are fun and inventive Crazy Orders is fun for being a random succession of things happening, but still being fights instead of like, a pointless board game
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Jan 18, 2015 11:20
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TheKingofSprings posted:Smash 4 has more. That doesn't mean that, on average, Smash 4 has more great sounding tracks. Yeah well I think you're full of poo poo 
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Jan 18, 2015 11:23
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Smash 4 is better and more fun to watch and anyone surprised there's more people signing up for a game that's been practiced for 13 years instead of 2-3 months is a dummy. Also Melee doesn't even look that fast to me anymore. Or rather it's hard to tell because of it's completely disgusting camera spazzing out at all times.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:26
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Also the Smash community is doing a pretty dumb thing by exclusively backing an older game because it's the older game, instead of trying to grow the scenes alongside each other. Like the Street Fighter community played 4 even when they complained the earlier games were so much better, they didn't just drop it and go back to playing 3S/2Turbo exclusively.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:27
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The events are fun and inventive Fighting 15 Little Macs with super armor and counters while you're at lethal percent is neither of those things. And Crazy Orders is cool right up until a Beetle shows up and picks you up, or a party ball carrying the explosive set opens up 2 feet from you. THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Also the Smash community is doing a pretty dumb thing by exclusively backing an older game because it's the older game, instead of trying to grow the scenes alongside each other. Like the Street Fighter community played 4 even when they complained the earlier games were so much better, they didn't just drop it and go back to playing 3S/2Turbo exclusively. The difference from Melee to Brawl is light years from SF Third Strike to SFIV. For one, SF IV didn't have mechanics added purely to spite people who played SF TS. Competitive players do try out the new games, but they are not at all geared to that crowd and Sakurai has made it clear in interviews that he has no intention of doing any more than throwing the odd bone and that his own game has no competitive future, so why blame them for not switching when the creator himself would rather they not switch? E: I was mistaken regarding the interview, it's apparently supposed to be interpreted more along the lines of "For the time being, I don't see Smash ever being games that lean only towards competitive play." , which is a statement I agree with completely. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 11:35
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TheKingofSprings posted:Fight 15 Little Macs with super armor and counters while you're at lethal percent is neither of those things. There's some dumb events but I enjoyed them as a whole. The kirby food one can eat poo poo though Yeah but right now this isn't Melee > Brawl, it's Melee > Smash 4. Smash 4 obviously has some care put in to the balance of things no matter what Sakurai says, and it's a fun game, I think even in a 1v1 "serious" capacity as well as a party game one. If they didn't care about competitive future they wouldn't have nerfed things. Also people talk like Sakurai made the game on his own when the company that works on Tekken actually had a large part in making this one, and claimed they think of it as a serious fighting game.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:39
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah but right now this isn't Melee > Brawl, it's Melee > Smash 4. As far as I can see, nobody has claimed Melee is straight up a better game than Smash 4, only that there are things Melee did better than 4 despite being 13 years old. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Smash 4 is better and more fun to watch and anyone surprised there's more people signing up for a game that's been practiced for 13 years instead of 2-3 months is a dummy. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vXgpGBbh5r8
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Jan 18, 2015 11:53
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Also Melee doesn't even look that fast to me anymore. Or rather it's hard to tell because of it's completely disgusting camera spazzing out at all times. To be real, it's amazing that the camera does as well as it does with the poo poo it has to put up with. That's something every Smash game has done unanimously correctly.
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Jan 18, 2015 11:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:As far as I can see, nobody has claimed Melee is straight up a better game than Smash 4, only that there are things Melee did better than 4 despite being 13 years old. Maybe not here but on stuff like Smashboards or /r/smashbros this is becoming a pretty common sentiment already. There's nothing wrong with continuing to play Melee, it's a great game. But there are people who take Project M more seriously than 4 already
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Jan 18, 2015 11:59
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TheKingofSprings posted:As far as I can see, nobody has claimed Melee is straight up a better game than Smash 4, only that there are things Melee did better than 4 despite being 13 years old. I'm not saying it's not more technical as there's a ton of exploit abuse and whatnot but the movement speed in general doesn't look nearly as fast as people harp on about and I'm watching Mango and others play for frame of reference. ZeRo's been uploading matches with him vs Nairo for the past few days and it honestly looks to be about the same minus the camera rapidly zooming in and out like a spazz and characters living a little longer.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:10
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The events are fun and inventive The Events are pretty poo poo, but Event mode's always been kinda the "did it once, never again" kinda mode since Melee. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I'm not saying it's not more technical as there's a ton of exploit abuse and whatnot but the movement speed in general doesn't look nearly as fast as people harp on about and I'm watching Mango and others play for frame of reference. ZeRo's been uploading matches with him vs Nairo for the past few days and it honestly looks to be about the same minus the camera rapidly zooming in and out like a spazz and characters living a little longer. If you think Smash 4 is anywhere near the speed of the video that KingOfSprings posted you really need to get your eyes checked.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:24
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Also the Smash community is doing a pretty dumb thing by exclusively backing an older game because it's the older game, instead of trying to grow the scenes alongside each other. Like the Street Fighter community played 4 even when they complained the earlier games were so much better, they didn't just drop it and go back to playing 3S/2Turbo exclusively. Sometimes the newest game isn't worth growing a scene around. That's why Guilty Gear has had its ups and downs as well as why SFxT died Really Fast. Plus people seem to forget that initially SF4 was really bad with a lot of balance issues, it took a lot of iterations for it to become as good as it is now. Not saying Smash 4 is as bad as SFxT of course but it's kinda silly to think that a game deserves to be played just because its new. People are gonna play what they like, and it's gonna take time to see if Smash 4 really sticks or not.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:26
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Gas.
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Jan 18, 2015 12:37
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Sire Oblivion posted:The Events are pretty poo poo, but Event mode's always been kinda the "did it once, never again" kinda mode since Melee. I'm sorry I'm just watching videos that aren't slowed down and while I'm sure you can push a whole buncha buttons real fast the characters themselves aren't actually moving all that fast on the screen*. Like I'm watching this video and yeah it is faster, but it's not blistering 20x faster that a lot of people talk up whereas this looks fast enough to me? Like sorry I don't agree. Maybe it's because the camera is giving me legit motion sickness but standing by my statement *during actual play I should mention. I only really see Fox wavedashing and going fast in the match I posted when he has a KO and he's just running around on a platform by himself. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 12:47
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Agreed, Wario is a good character.
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Jan 18, 2015 13:37
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Like I'm watching this video and yeah it is faster, but it's not blistering 20x faster that a lot of people talk up whereas You seriously posted the worst example of Melee, I don't think you understand this match-up: Jigglypuff is a really good counter-pick to Fox/Falco and will utterly destroy them if played properly so Fox in this case has to play extremely cautiously/defensively to try and get in and when he does most of his bread and butter combos and set-ups don't work due to Jigglypuff's weight and floatyness. This is fast for Smash 4 but still slow compared to Melee. Here's an example of fast Melee play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eCO-ABIl44
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Jan 18, 2015 13:55
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The contempt some people have for people who like Melee is really strange in my opinion. No one in any other games community gives a poo poo if you like Brood War, or Third Strike, or 1.6 better than the rest. I don't really get it. You can like a game series while acknowledging the strengths and merits of others that are not the latest in the franchise...
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Jan 18, 2015 16:09
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Actually I think if you like Brood War more than Starcraft 2 you're kinda dumb.
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Jan 18, 2015 16:21
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Also if you like 1.6 more than anything else, you're probably like 50 and just don't want to learn a new game before you die.
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Jan 18, 2015 16:25
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I have a friend who vastly prefers BW, but I'm not really a Starcraft person. I don't really care, much like I don't care about people who like Melee over Smash 4 - I'm not gonna jump through a bunch of hoops lined with buzzword-filled rants about game design to tell you how much you're wrong, because lol if you give even half of a poo poo about that. just have fun with the games u like
Maleficent fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jan 18, 2015 |
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Jan 18, 2015 16:30
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I like S4 a lot but I really wish shielding/dodging weren't as strong I don't like wavedashing that much but I really miss melee's directional air dodges which put you in recovery
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Jan 18, 2015 16:42
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Melee doesn't have Dedede or my boy Bowser Jr so why would I waste anymore time on that old piece of poo poo? Smash 4 is the new hotness, get with it grandpa
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Jan 18, 2015 16:42
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also I wish samus was better 
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Jan 18, 2015 16:43
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Also, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with not wanting to learn a new game if you really like what you're familiar with.
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Jan 18, 2015 16:45
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Chakram posted:It takes a whole lot of thinking when you're desperate for Melee to stay relevant when SSB4 is so much better in every way. agreeeed
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Jan 18, 2015 17:14
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Maleficent posted:Also, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with not wanting to learn a new game if you really like what you're familiar with.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:23
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i know you're probably trying to be ironic or make some kind of zinger with that but there's nothing wrong with it.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:26
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This discussion is weird. There's no weird movement to keep SSB in the past or whatever, all it comes down to is that if people prefer Melee they'll play Melee, if they prefer Smash 4 then they'll play Smash 4. Each game works differently and has different strengths and weaknesses, of course not everyone will agree on which is better! People are getting really defensive over a simple matter of personal preference.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:28
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From the casual perspective, it seems like the diehard Melee players are reluctant to give up mastery of glitches that make the gameplay quite arcane compared to the rest of the series.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:32
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Maleficent posted:i know you're probably trying to be ironic or make some kind of zinger with that but there's nothing wrong with it.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:44
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Smashing Link posted:From the casual perspective, it seems like the diehard Melee players are reluctant to give up mastery of glitches that make the gameplay quite arcane compared to the rest of the series. It's more of a physics exploit than a glitch, as far as than is a meaningful distinction anyways.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:44
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Melee player, from blimp: "I, zeppelin pilot Wave Dashing, am unstoppable! You will never defeat me or my dishonorable air combat!" Wii U player, on ground: "I choose to fight with honor." *wipes away tear* "I choose to fight... for my friends."
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Jan 18, 2015 17:47
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infinite air-dodges are the real dishonorable air combat and I will not stand for this libel
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Jan 18, 2015 17:48
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IronicDongz posted:infinite air-dodges are the real dishonorable air combat and I will not stand for this libel
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Jan 18, 2015 17:50
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Same thing goes for wave-dashing 
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Jan 18, 2015 17:51
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Humans are built to adapt to changes. Melee people are objectively broken as humans. Bad-mouthing them like this will get them on my side. Other lies.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:56
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Smashing Link posted:From the casual perspective, it seems like the diehard Melee players are reluctant to give up mastery of glitches that make the gameplay quite arcane compared to the rest of the series. From my own perspective I'm kind of sick of seeing the "it's not like 5x faster, bug/exploit riddled and I can't hang off a edge to kill someone so it's the worst thing ever and anyone who likes 4 is a casual loser". That's my main complaint, aside from the fact Melee is boring as poo poo to watch at this point as it's characters doing mostly the same exact thing with little to no deviation. 2 months in while stuff is still getting discovered and hearing "pft it doesn't have as much tech it's trash back 2 melee" is just really dumb
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Jan 18, 2015 18:09
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ledgegrabbing-based kills are goddamn awful and melee would be 5x as interesting without them
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Jan 18, 2015 18:11
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