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The Bee posted:Smash 4's offstage game would be perfect in theory. You can recover from far, encouraging risky play because you have room for ever. You can steal the ledge, encouraging less edgehogging and more badass midair interceptions. Overall you're changing a more passive and boring form of recovery-stopping with a more active, risky, and engaging one. The problem is you add the overbearing airdodges to the mix and end up jumbling everything up. This is all true. Which is why it being lame is such a travesty.  I really do think if they removed infinite airdodge like... a good 50% of the problems in the game would be fixed. I can deal with the rolling.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:18
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laplace posted:This is all true. Which is why it being lame is such a travesty. ? If you can read a roll, you can read an airdodge.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:22
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at least 40% of my kills as bowser are forward airs off the stage
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Jan 18, 2015 22:23
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The only thing I really miss from Melee is the single-use airdodge. It was an escape button, but you only got one, and if you hosed it up you were gonna get whacked. Comparing that to Brawl and Smash 4 and it's just MASH MASH MASH oh I'm on the ground. I also miss the results screen and accompanying jingle after you clear a stage in classic or adventure. That was cool, why'd they remove it?
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Jan 18, 2015 22:24
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Maple Leaf posted:? If you can read a roll, you can read an airdodge. There's also less setup, less animation frames, the ability to maneuver while airdodging, less control in the air as compared to the ground, less endlag. Compared to a roll, which can often be easily punished by a perceptive player, an airdodge is really safe.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:25
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Which is all beaten by a good read. Every time I've seen someone bait out an airdodge, they've gotten the punish for it. Even in Brawl, where the problem was even worse than it is in Smash 4, if you're dumb enough to spam your "unbeatable" dodge you'll get wrecked for it, assuming your opponent is smart enough to pick up on your bad habits. "The ability to maneuver while airdodging" isn't that big a deal because most characters don't have good enough aerial mobility for that to matter - they're either going forward, or they're not, but they're definitely not going backward. They even made airdodging an unsafe idea onstage because of the huge landing lag it has. And yeah, they could abuse it offstage to avoid your edgeguarding, but the more they do it (because you're being exciting enough to chase them, knowing that they can either try to attack you, which is unsafe because they are in a bad position to begin with, or they can airdodge, which is still bad for the same reason and can be read and punished even harder) the less likely they'll be able to recover. And because of the new ledge mechanics, you can go as deep as you like as long as long as you know your character's limits.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:42
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I finally get why Marth and Lucina are so much worse. Their range didn't get worse, everyone elses's got better. FFS I just had a Sonic outrange my forward smash with his
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Jan 18, 2015 22:49
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In addition, because the majority of characters have good recoveries, it means they can go pretty deep, which is good.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:50
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Maple Leaf posted:Which is all beaten by a good read. You could say this about anything, which is stupid. A good read beats anything but doesn't make said option any less safe or spammable.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:53
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I believe that is the definition of making an option less safe, Sire Oblivion.
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Jan 18, 2015 22:57
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Maple you don't understand when you're in the air you get the starman sparkles and you're completely untouchable.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:03
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Nobody's saying you're invincible. Just that it's a far stronger tool than it needs to be, and slows down gameplay because it's far easier to be the defender than the attacker in most cases. Defences being riskier than attacks makes it more exciting because the attacker will feel the need to put themselves in danger more often to capitalize. It also makes the instances where a defense at a critical moment goes off without a hitch much more exciting, rather than the boring expectation.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:09
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Melee is the 6v6 of smash in that people will always be mad about it existing and the only people who want to watch it play the format.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:44
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Please make Gamer legal.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:45
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No Stage Hazard is a good or cool stage hazard.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:47
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Reiley posted:Melee is the 6v6 of smash in that people will always be mad about it existing and the only people who want to watch it play the format. Imagine 6v6 smash...!
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Jan 18, 2015 23:51
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laplace posted:No Stage Hazard is a good or cool stage hazard. I don't think you understand smash brothers if you honestly believe this. Like this isn't even about Gamer exclusively. Dumb stage hazards have been in every game for a reason. Gamers owns and is fun.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:53
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Just because they're in every game doesn't make them good or worthwhile. They've always been dumb. The bumper was dumb on Peach's castle, the hurricane was dumb on Hyrule Castle, Most people even hate Woody Woods despite him doing no damage. Stage hazards are dumb. Items are also dumb, but I at least understand people being excited about getting to see a pokemon or something. The whole randomness RNG thing is and always has been lame even outside of a competitive setting. The whole "It makes it more fun!" is about as fun as randomly getting herpes while walking through a crowd. RNG is lame. Getting punished for no reason is lame.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:00
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Sounds like someone doesn't get smash bros. Like you can play without hazards on some maps (and I do a lot of the time) but I can't imagine not having stages like Pokefloats or Gamer or Wario Ware. Some are poo poo like Yellow Devil and Ridley in 4 no arguments there as a aside but hating all of them ever? That's bonkers. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 00:01
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I'm less mad at the stages and more at how limited the stage creator was made. People are making some cool competitive stages, but there's no real way to share them in-game. The creator is also quite limited in scope, but I feel like you don't need that many tools to make cool competitive stages. It just sucks for funtime stages. They don't need to make a ton of competitive stages if they just give players the tools to make their own and easily share them.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:04
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laplace posted:Just because they're in every game doesn't make them good or worthwhile. They've always been dumb. The bumper was dumb on Peach's castle, the hurricane was dumb on Hyrule Castle, Most people even hate Woody Woods despite him doing no damage. Stage hazards are dumb.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:05
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laplace posted:Just because they're in every game doesn't make them good or worthwhile. They've always been dumb. The bumper was dumb on Peach's castle, the hurricane was dumb on Hyrule Castle, Most people even hate Woody Woods despite him doing no damage. Stage hazards are dumb.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:06
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stage hazards are only bad when they actually affect the match outside of the player's control. gamer's is a bit much for real competitive play because of how far 5-volt can see plus how many variations that stage has, but halberd's hazards are fine because both players can take advantage of them and most of the time they get ignored completely anyway, because they are really easy to avoid youre nuts dude
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Jan 19, 2015 00:07
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Rorus Raz posted:I'm less mad at the stages and more at how limited the stage creator was made. People are making some cool competitive stages, but there's no real way to share them in-game. The creator is also quite limited in scope, but I feel like you don't need that many tools to make cool competitive stages. It just sucks for funtime stages. Isn't stage sharing getting patched in later?
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Jan 19, 2015 00:07
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Isn't stage sharing getting patched in later? yeah
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Jan 19, 2015 00:08
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laplace posted:Just because they're in every game doesn't make them good or worthwhile. They've always been dumb. The bumper was dumb on Peach's castle, the hurricane was dumb on Hyrule Castle, Most people even hate Woody Woods despite him doing no damage. Stage hazards are dumb. He's too far gone. His mind is shrouded in darkness, and cannot be reached
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Jan 19, 2015 00:08
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Sounds like someone doesn't get smash bros. Pokefloats does not have stage hazards And WarioWare has been an awful stage some it came out in Brawl. Random buffs are bad. Gamer is my powerful friend though and is infinitely better
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Jan 19, 2015 00:08
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Also can you and a online friend do any sort of 2v2? I haven't really tried it yet and feels like it would be a odd oversight buuut.TheKingofSprings posted:Pokefloats does not have stage hazards I just like the adaptations of micro games that pop up. Everyone stopping to taunt and having that one friend go "poo poo I hosed UP" and ruin it for everyone is great.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:09
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Also can you and a online friend do any sort of 2v2? I haven't really tried it yet and feels like it would be a odd oversight buuut. Yes, if you play against other online friends
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Jan 19, 2015 00:09
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TheKingofSprings posted:Yes, if you play against other online friends Lame
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Jan 19, 2015 00:10
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Isn't stage sharing getting patched in later? Yeah they definitely said it and a real tourney mode as well as online tourneys were coming post-launch in the 50 fact video. Unrelatedly I discovered recently that the online friend waiting room has turned into that Miiverse stage they also promised.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:11
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Wild Knight posted:Yeah they definitely said it and a real tourney mode as well as online tourneys were coming post-launch in the 50 fact video. Yeah, sure, and next you'll tell me they're adding Mewtwo.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:12
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Wild Knight posted:Yeah they definitely said it and a real tourney mode as well as online tourneys were coming post-launch in the 50 fact video. it didn't turn into it, the wii u version's waiting room was always omega miiverse
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Jan 19, 2015 00:12
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Oh one more random question, as far as I understand it custom moves are banned because it takes forever to unlock them. If that's all that there is is there a chance of them getting unbanned down the line when it's more likely everyone's got em? I really wanna see them used because while there's some lame ones in there a lot are pretty neat.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:13
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I think I understand humans and interaction just fine. It doesn't make bad design any better.  Also, Reiley posted:Melee is the 6v6 of smash in that people will always be mad about it existing and the only people who want to watch it play the format. The only thing that beat Melee in viewership at EVO was UMvC3, and Beast 5's Melee bracket got more viewers on the VGBC side stream (peaked at about 15k) than Smash 4 did on the primary stream. Melee is definitely not just a niche ~only people who play it~ thing. I think more people watch it than they do play it by a huge margin. edit: ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Oh one more random question, as far as I understand it custom moves are banned because it takes forever to unlock them. If that's all that there is is there a chance of them getting unbanned down the line when it's more likely everyone's got em? Yes. There are tournaments that use them already. There is an effort to create hacked saves so everything can be unlocked from the start at tournaments, so this will likely become a thing.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:15
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I hope the next game expands on the custom moves. I think it would keep the game fresher with more variety in each character.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:16
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last i checked some people were trying to make use of a 3ds version that had every custom move unlocked and come up with a list of 8 most used custom move loadouts that they would transfer to as many wii u versions as possible so that everyone would have access to them, and if anyone wanted something else they would have to bring their own 3ds with them and transfer their own set for their match.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:17
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FactsAreUseless posted:I hope the next game expands on the custom moves. I think it would keep the game fresher with more variety in each character. i just want custom moves that make sense. mega man has probably my favorite set of custom moves because while they are all similar to his default moves in function they're still based off of different moves from his games and offer some nice variety without feeling like gimmicks.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:19
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FactsAreUseless posted:I hope the next game expands on the custom moves. I think it would keep the game fresher with more variety in each character. There won't be a next game.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:20
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 20:43 |
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i'm going to make super smash bros. 5
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Jan 19, 2015 00:21
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