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Yeah, it's meant to illustrate how focused Sherlock is on knowing only things that may be useful, which is why he's able to make deductions so quickly, because he has all the relevant information to hand and nothing trivial or unimportant. It doesn't really work, because that's not how knowledge works and you can never actually know what might be relevant in figuring out what happened or why someone may have done something, but it is from the original stories.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:15
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Tiggum posted:Watch Elementary, it's way better. I like Elementary but it is a 100% by the numbers procedural. Its the mentalist or numbers lie to me or perception or monk or CSI or Castle with the numbers filed off, except they havent bothered to give him "magic face reading powers" or "magic maths powers" or "magic untreated schizophrenia powers" or "magic pseudoscience forensics powers" and have gone straight to "magic crme solving powers" which I imagine saves the writers about 10 minutes per script. As an american take on holmes it could be much worse, its a perfectly watchable procedural, but the average script for it could be made into a script for an episode of half a dozen other shows with more or less a find and replace of character names and inserting the words "We sent the sample to the lab and it told us that" or "I did the math and it told me that" or "if I was writing this as a novel I would have it that" instead of "I deduced that....". A lot of the time they overemphasise what will turn out to be the crucial fact 20 minutes later, which has the effect of making literally everyone in the cast except sherlock look borderline retarded as opposed to making holmes look good. Its a decent procedural with a really great cast of actors, but as a show it isnt anything particularly special.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:45
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SiKboy posted:Its a decent procedural with a really great cast of actors, but as a show it isnt anything particularly special. And yet it's still way better than Sherlock. 
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Jan 18, 2015 17:48
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Tiggum posted:Watch Elementary, it's way better. Agreed that he was never "autistic" (which is a term goons throw around anyway) but still had some sort of diagnosable mental condition. I mean, manic depression is right there in the stories really obviously for one example. One thing kind of overlooked is that he was just about always endearing towards humble or down people whilst detested the snobbery elite upperclass. Downey's Holmes is far more accurate to the original character then people want to admit. Downey's is still played in a more typical action movie way the the tropes are all lifted straight from the books.
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Jan 18, 2015 17:54
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Non Serviam posted:My girlfriend insisted that Sherlock was great (she's, thankfully, not into the fandom or any of the actors) so I gave it a shot. Have you gotten to the Hound of the Baskervilles episode? Like you, I liked the first episode, and the dynamic between Benedict and Martin kept me watching for a while, but that was the point where I couldn't handle it anymore.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:12
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Non Serviam posted:My girlfriend insisted that Sherlock was great (she's, thankfully, not into the fandom or any of the actors) so I gave it a shot. Irrationally Irritating Irrationally Irritating Movie Moments Moment - Describing Alan Turing as "retarded genius". Oh also the movie has him being blackmailed to cover for a spy. Sure movie, just lie to me about Alan loving Turing committing treason.
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Jan 18, 2015 20:43
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Squalitude posted:In one of the earlier Bumberbatch Sherlock episodes they have a bit where he didn't realise Earth revolves around the Sun, or something ridiculous like that. Was that Sherlock (or the writer) just having a laugh, or an actual thing we're meant to think he thinks? It's worth it to read the stories and novels. In the books, he is almost helpless without Watson. I believe that he actually says that he doesn't know about the rotation of the earth in the books but I'd have to look again. He also depends on Watson for medical knowledge as his understanding is limited to fatal wounds and poison.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:18
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mostlygray posted:It's worth it to read the stories and novels. In the books, he is almost helpless without Watson. I believe that he actually says that he doesn't know about the rotation of the earth in the books but I'd have to look again. He also depends on Watson for medical knowledge as his understanding is limited to fatal wounds and poison. He does, its in A Study in Scarlet; Arthur Conan Doyle posted:His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it. Its not massively consistant, I'm pretty sure in other stories he is fairly knowledgeable about contempary politics. Its a few years since I read the books though.
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Jan 18, 2015 23:37
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Lotish posted:Have you gotten to the Hound of the Baskervilles episode? Like you, I liked the first episode, and the dynamic between Benedict and Martin kept me watching for a while, but that was the point where I couldn't handle it anymore. I actually really enjoyed that episode right up to the moment that the Hound turned out to be real. I know it was like that in the book, but the episode had done such a great job of making it appear to be a paranoid delusion caused by that secret research facility that ALSO including that moment that actually appears in the books felt quite silly. Irrational, I know, but that's what the thread is for! I really enjoy the modern day Sherlock though, particularly the most recent season that a lot of people REALLY disliked. I like that Sherlock is actually, if not exactly becoming a regular human being, growing or at least making the attempt to be (or at least successfully fake being) a better person for John's sake. Then again, the after-the-credits teaser for the following season was pretty atrociously bad.
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Jan 19, 2015 00:25
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Jerusalem posted:Then again, the after-the-credits teaser for the following season was pretty atrociously bad.
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Jan 19, 2015 02:11
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Pilchenstein posted:The bit with Moriarty? Yeah, it was particularly disappointing since i liked the idea of "Moriarty" now being Sherlock projecting his darker urges onto the image of the guy, and having him chained up in the deepest part of his mind indicated that Sherlock really was making an attempt to be a "better" person. I thought that was a neat way to get around wanting to have Moriarty around without resurrecting the actual character. Still, maybe it'll be revealed early in the next season that the whole thing was a fake-out to get Sherlock out of his exile, or some final gently caress-you trolling from Moriarty in the event of his death, or some other bad guy co-opting Moriarty's image to draw attention away while they did their own thing. Anything other than,"Psyche I faked my death too!"
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Jan 19, 2015 02:19
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Jerusalem posted:Still, maybe it'll be revealed early in the next season that the whole thing was a fake-out to get Sherlock out of his exile, or some final gently caress-you trolling from Moriarty in the event of his death, or some other bad guy co-opting Moriarty's image to draw attention away while they did their own thing. Anything other than,"Psyche I faked my death too!" To chime in on the Downey Jr version of sherlock, I'd recommend skipping the first film entirely - it's pretty bland but the second one is fantastic.
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Jan 19, 2015 02:28
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Pilchenstein posted:Hopefully, yeah. I'd chime in with the exact opposite opinion. The second film is a wonky action movie, where the hero is basically psychic, and can 'see' other people's fighting moves in advance. The first is a fairly fresh take on a Holmes story, with the villain using apparently supernatural means to come back from the dead and kill his political opponents, and Holmes having to try and figure it out, plus a number of fun action-y setpieces and RDJ's manic acting.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:17
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Lamprey Cannon posted:I'd chime in with the exact opposite opinion. The second film is a wonky action movie, where the hero is basically psychic, and can 'see' other people's fighting moves in advance. The first is a fairly fresh take on a Holmes story, with the villain using apparently supernatural means to come back from the dead and kill his political opponents, and Holmes having to try and figure it out, plus a number of fun action-y setpieces and RDJ's manic acting. I agree that the first movie overall is a bit more focused, but the villain in the second film is so much more interesting to watch! And I will disagree with the "basically psychic" bit, because to my memory the first movie indeed had scenes where Holmes successfully "saw" other people's moves in advance and countered them, and the second movie had at least one scene where he "saw" his opponent's moves, but his instincts turned out to be wrong, and he had to improvise. But it's been a while since I've seen either, so I may be misremembering...
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Jan 19, 2015 03:28
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Pilchenstein posted:The bit with Moriarty? He's really loving bad in general. It seems to be a common theme with BBC shows to mistake "camp" for "villainous". It was kind of terrible at the end of Ashes to Ashes when the bad guy started loving hissing at people but the worst offender is Dr Who, especially when they got John Simm, one of the finest actors of his generation, just to have him dance about a bit and pull stupid faces. Dr Who is amazing because theres literally 50 years of it and not one good episode
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Jan 19, 2015 03:33
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Van Dis posted:Dr Who is amazing because theres literally 50 years of it and not one good episode There are lots of good episodes, just like there are lots of good episodes of Bananas In Pyjamas and Peppa Pig - if you're the right demographic for Dr. Who, then it's a good show. It's just that the appropriate demographic is children aged 8 through 12. If you're an adult, then you can recognise it for the contrived, shallow and simplistic show that it is.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:47
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I really love the first Holmes and the second didn't really do much for me. I was really looking forward to it too. Welp bye.
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Jan 19, 2015 03:49
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The concept of Dr. Who is pretty cool. It's just that the show doesn't follow through with it all that well in a lot of cases.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:27
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Memento posted:There are lots of good episodes, just like there are lots of good episodes of Bananas In Pyjamas and Peppa Pig - if you're the right demographic for Dr. Who, then it's a good show. It's just that the appropriate demographic is children aged 8 through 12. Can we stop dragging idiotic GBS trash into other forums? I'm not a fan of Dr Who but pretending that its a show for children and otherwise "beneath you" is just a stupid bandwagon opinion.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:20
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The second Holmes movie was a bit of a letdown but Jared Hess an amazing Moriarty.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:27
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Your Gay Uncle posted:The second Holmes movie was a bit of a letdown but Jared Hess an amazing Moriarty. The penultimate act in the train yard was a bit of an overlong letdown but the final scene at the waterfall was REALLY well done and the two actors played off each other really well. An inconsistent film to be sure. People also forget how good Jude Law is as Watson. Both characters are always shown as being a bit too old in most adaptions. Watson is in his 30's in the books, not pushing 60.
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Jan 19, 2015 06:11
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edit: too bitchy, not worth it
Memento has a new favorite as of 06:30 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 06:24
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Nutsngum posted:The penultimate act in the train yard was a bit of an overlong letdown but the final scene at the waterfall was REALLY well done and the two actors played off each other really well. The first film had that wonderful moment where Holmes tries to deduce all about Watsons fiance, gets it wrong (because all his statistical inference is off) and calls her a ruthless callous money grabber. It actually felt like Holmes had no idea he was being an arse, and Jude Law nailed the sense of impending doom.
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Jan 19, 2015 09:47
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Tiggum posted:And yet it's still way better than Sherlock. And yet it's really not.
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Jan 19, 2015 12:44
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Lamprey Cannon posted:I'd chime in with the exact opposite opinion. The second film is a wonky action movie, where the hero is basically psychic, and can 'see' other people's fighting moves in advance. The first is a fairly fresh take on a Holmes story, with the villain using apparently supernatural means to come back from the dead and kill his political opponents, and Holmes having to try and figure it out, plus a number of fun action-y setpieces and RDJ's manic acting. I might be wrong about the first one being bland, it's been a while and I don't remember much of it. Really though, they're just a couple of action films to me - if I want to watch a proper Sherlock Holmes, I'll watch Jeremy Brett. 
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Jan 19, 2015 15:34
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Edge of Tomorrow stuff ahead: The movie was better than I expected for the majority. Sure, it was a little ridiculous, but at least it was a good time doing so. Nit-picking little things didn't change the overall enjoyment of the film; it was funny, had cool alien design, neat mech-suit things, and Tom Cruise getting his rear end kicked. It even hand-waved the whole "How do the characters know they've lost the connection without dying [permanently]? But the ending... wow. That was pretty awful. I wonder if there was an unpopular test screening where Cruise's character stays dead, because the entire theme of the movie falls apart when he magically resurrects one last time. Originally, the movie dealt with the very real cost of sacrifice and death in war. The idea is that Cruise dies a million deaths so other soldiers don't have to. He goes into a no-return situation because he has seen the consequences if he does not. It's noble; he starts as a coward and ends as someone who is willing to die knowing he WON'T come back. And his comrades give their lives for his cause, without ever truly knowing that it was just (like real soldiers tend to do). So to bring him back again is ludicrous. And the logic in it is even worse? He doesn't even rewind to his normal wake-up moment, because then he would still be disgraced. He gets to go back to when he was still popular, too. How? Why? How did the alien heart die the night before he actually killed it? It makes literally zero sense. God forbid that Cruise has to stay dead as a sacrifice for saving the Earth. Nope. Not good enough. What a cop-out.
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Jan 19, 2015 17:44
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Watch the asylum Sherlock Holmes ripoff of the Downey movie. Sherlock's brother decides to become steampunk iron man and is the villain.
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Jan 19, 2015 18:06
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Light Gun Man posted:Watch the asylum Sherlock Holmes ripoff of the Downey movie. Sherlock's brother decides to become steampunk iron man and is the villain. Is that the one with the giant robot in London, because that was hilarious.
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Jan 19, 2015 18:55
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Eclipse12 posted:Edge of Tomorrow stuff
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Jan 19, 2015 19:12
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Eclipse12 posted:Edge of Tomorrow stuff ahead: Not to defend the ending because it was a bit of a cop out but. him waking up at a different time actually makes sense plot wise. He woke up when he did the first few times because of when he got the magic time travel blood spilled on him. Depending on when you die you get shot back about 48 hours or so in time. In the end he died much earlier in the day prior to the invasion, so it makes sense he would be sent back earlier in the loop. I agree though, I think the movie should have just ended and cut to black as he died killing the Source or whatever that big alien at the end was called.
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Jan 19, 2015 19:58
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Not to defend the ending because it was a bit of a cop out but. him waking up at a different time actually makes sense plot wise. He woke up when he did the first few times because of when he got the magic time travel blood spilled on him. Depending on when you die you get shot back about 48 hours or so in time. In the end he died much earlier in the day prior to the invasion, so it makes sense he would be sent back earlier in the loop. I agree though, I think the movie should have just ended and cut to black as he died killing the Source or whatever that big alien at the end was called. Then, when he died only a few hours after awaking in his normal loop, why didn't he go back further on the days where he died before he went into the fight (getting run over by the truck, getting killed in the training room, etc)? Yes, what this guy is saying. VVVVVVV Eclipse12 has a new favorite as of 23:10 on Jan 19, 2015 |
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Jan 19, 2015 22:42
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Your Gay Uncle posted:Not to defend the ending because it was a bit of a cop out but. him waking up at a different time actually makes sense plot wise. He woke up when he did the first few times because of when he got the magic time travel blood spilled on him. Depending on when you die you get shot back about 48 hours or so in time. In the end he died much earlier in the day prior to the invasion, so it makes sense he would be sent back earlier in the loop. I agree though, I think the movie should have just ended and cut to black as he died killing the Source or whatever that big alien at the end was called. But he dies at several different times throughout the movie, but that's the only one that changes when he wakes up? I don't buy that. Either the movie should have ended with a noble sacrifice to escape the loop or a return to start to show the futility of it all. The happy ending was so loving terrible and forced.
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Jan 19, 2015 22:45
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PYF Rationally Irritating Movie Moments: The fact that studios don't release the different movie variations that were shown to test audiences. Hell, even if it's sold as part of one of the "ultimate" editions, just release the scenes. I know they won't have the final makeup/audio/effects, but the fact that the scenes were complete enough to show to test audiences means they're complete enough. Show me the damned writers' and directors' original visions instead of the watered down crap that the planned target demographic wants. I don't care that test audiences want tacked on romantic subplots and happy endings no matter what the movie is, give me something that is less tainted than the final product
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Jan 19, 2015 22:47
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kazil posted:But he dies at several different times throughout the movie, but that's the only one that changes when he wakes up? I don't buy that. Either the movie should have ended with a noble sacrifice to escape the loop or a return to start to show the futility of it all. The happy ending was so loving terrible and forced.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:23
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I kinda got the idea that it was because he got WAY MORE special blood on him from the super whatsis that he killed, versus the little bit he got on him when he killed the land solider version of the same thing. More blood (better blood?) means a bigger "boost" to go further back. It's still horseshit though, cause the "bad" ending where he just died would have been awesome.
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Jan 19, 2015 23:29
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I like to think about this clip when things get analyzed too much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkMaxdhzzMw
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Jan 19, 2015 23:29
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mng posted:I like to think about this clip when things get analyzed too much. It's better when sung: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ugebzq3juE
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Jan 20, 2015 00:07
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Movies that disobey their own rules to make the ending happier at the cost of it making sense are dumb and using "it doesnt matter it's a movie" as a cop out argument to make people stop poking holes in it makes you a spineless jerk, hope this helps
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Jan 20, 2015 00:12
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How do you know he's breaking the movie's rule when he's getting an infusion of new super brain time blood, which means room for a new rule!?
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Jan 20, 2015 00:42
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Sentient Data posted:PYF Rationally Irritating Movie Moments:
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