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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What are some thoughts on One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I'm going to play it on Friday with around 8 players, is it just going to be garbage? I like it. It's a fundamentally shallow game, but there's some deduction to be had. The fact that the app just takes control and tells you exactly what to do helps you throw people directly into the bullshit, and the short play time works well for large groups. If they like it, buy Avalon for next week
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Jan 19, 2015 23:35
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What are some thoughts on One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I'm going to play it on Friday with around 8 players, is it just going to be garbage? Assuming your group has at least some players willing to lie and bluff well, it can be a lot of fun. We play it all the time here (+the Daybreak expansion which helps change things up regularly), and every person I've introduced it to has really, really enjoyed themselves.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:01
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What are some thoughts on One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I'm going to play it on Friday with around 8 players, is it just going to be garbage? The main comparison is going to be against the Resistance. ONUW has a lower player threshold (5-6 players works well) and is obviously faster (expect 15 minute games). The deduction feels worse/less satisfying than The Resistance, but I can't really quantify that in a way that isn't just gut instinct. I would use ONUW as more of an introduction to these sorts of games, since games of The Resistance with people who suck at logic/in general are real struggles, and at least ONUW provides a better escape route with its shorter game time. Like a sort of vetting process, I guess.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:03
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So what's the current best worker placement game going? Ideally something reasonably thematic and probably not too lengthy? Keyflower? Caverna? Agricola? My collection doesn't have any worker placement games at all, and I'm looking to fix that 
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Jan 20, 2015 00:07
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Caverna, IMO, but others will argue. I wouldn't necessarily call Keyflower a worker placement game I don't think, at least not a traditional one. The bidding mechanic is much more the heart of the game. Basically, it really depends how difficult you want your game to be. If you like games which are punishingly hard, get the 'Gric. If you like games which are a little more relaxed, Caverna.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:09
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I've enjoyed playing ONUW with people that I enjoy playing Resistance with, albeit a bit less. But people who would otherwise be white noise or just uninteresting Resistance players seem to completely break ONUW, either because they become "agents of chaos" and just sorta say things just to be capital-r Random, have stage fright or something and never say anything despite having pivotal information or roles, or get caught in really transparent lies which immediately end the game.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:10
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Has anyone here heard anything about getting replacement combat boards from the Dungeon Lords kickstarter? I don't expect to play the expansion content for a while but it's going to really poo poo me if I have to use the boards that don't fit together correctly. I filled out the form but there's zero feedback so I don't even know if I did it correctly.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:19
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Filled the form too, no feedback either.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:20
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What are some thoughts on One Night Ultimate Werewolf? I'm going to play it on Friday with around 8 players, is it just going to be garbage? I've found ONUW not very exciting and really just a big logic puzzle. If you have someone who knows the different roles well and/or is good at deduction they'll just work through the logic and figure out who the werewolves are. Short play time (what, 3 minutes a game?) means you can play as much or as little as you want. And you can get a narrator app where the guy sounds like George Takei. I much prefer The Resistance/Avalon, it just felt like I got more monies worth. It entertains for longer, has more interactivity and has more freedom to let you lie through your teeth and turn your friends against each other. I feel that in ONUW everyone at the table has to know what every role does if they're going to lie convincingly, in Avalon at least people only have to be comfortable with what their own role does which to start with can be as simple as "good guy" or "bad guy". Get The Resistance / Avalon is my two pennies.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:21
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Zveroboy posted:If you have someone who knows the different [ONUW] roles well and/or is good at deduction they'll just work through the logic and figure out who the werewolves are. This is really dependent on which roles you're playing with, and how good/bad people are at lying in my opinion. Every once in a while, usually with newer players, we can solve the puzzle as you say, but way more often than not there's some degree of uncertainty come voting time. We played a couple hours of this last week on game night, and the werewolf teams were able to win more than half of the games we played and was a ton of fun. Resistance/Avalon comparisons are fair though, and depending on the group may in fact be a better fit in the long run. I personally am not a big fan of them and prefer One Night. YMMV as usual, basically.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:26
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tarbrush posted:So what's the current best worker placement game going? Ideally something reasonably thematic and probably not too lengthy? Keyflower? Caverna? Agricola? Agricola is probably the best one I've played. I've heard Caverna is better, but am not convinced (also you can get Agricola and expansion for what they're charging for Caverna). Haven't actually played it so I can't say for sure. Some other worker placement games that I would consider worth investigating: Dungeon Lords (might wait until the Anniversary Edition is in circulation), Viticulture, Euphoria. Probably Dungeon Petz, too, but I have yet to play that.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:40
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tarbrush posted:So what's the current best worker placement game going? Ideally something reasonably thematic and probably not too lengthy? Keyflower? Caverna? Agricola? Agricola Caverna has a lot going for it with the much heavier box and prettier wheat tokens but Agricola trumps it all with replay value. It was mentioned earlier with Dominion having 10^15 possible set-ups. An amazing feat considering each Dominion set comes with only 20-30 unique cards! Agricola comes with 300 unique cards; just the base set of Agricola has as much gameplay crammed in as every Dominion expansion combined. The cards have a major impact on the way you play, puzzling out how to turn your opening hand into a productive farm is basically the entire game. Agricola isn't like Munchkin where you will see all of the cards in a few games; you only get a hand on 14 total every game. In theory it would take you at least 21 games to see every card. To see every starting hand (and thus every puzzle) would take a trillion lifetimes. Some people get put off Agricola after playing a few games and starving to death; but if you give it some time you will find a true masterpiece in it's subtleties. It takes a bit of a time investment to "click" with the game and understand the timing but it is totally worth it. You will not win or even survive your first game of Agricola, but that's ok. You have lots of game to discover as you improve. There are far more possible games of Agricola that could be played than days remaining in the universe. The expansions multiply this exponentially, adding hundreds of new cards, starting conditions, heating, seasons, etc. You get more than your moneys worth with Agricola.
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Jan 20, 2015 00:52
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tarbrush posted:So what's the current best worker placement game going? Ideally something reasonably thematic and probably not too lengthy? Keyflower? Caverna? Agricola? Overall my favorite is Key Flower, followed by Agricola. Yes in KF your workers are currency but you won't win unless you actually use them to produce. It has the most variability outside of maybe Agricola, it has a lot of player interaction, it scales well to any player count, it plays in a reasonable time frame (about 20-25 minutes per player) and the expansions are great. The biggest negative against it is there are a lot of things going on so the first game is going to be tricky for new players. By weight, Istanbul and Stone Age are really good lighter worker placement games (I posted a page or two ago about Istanbul being on sale). I'd put Key Flower in mid weight, and Bruxelles 1893 is also excellent. For heavier I love Agricola. I haven't played Caverna but they seem similar enough that you don't need both, but they scratch a different itch. Agricola can be hard and stressful, it makes you work for every point and for a decent farm, but it's very satisfying when you do well. Caverna I hear is more forgiving and gives you a bit more freedom.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:52
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Rutibex posted:Agricola So Agricola is preferred by you because of the replayability of the base game and expansions. What if Caverna offered an expansion that significantly improved the number of tiles to add to the replayability? I know it's not currently an option and therefore shouldn't enter the equation when deciding whether Caverna or Agricola is better, but just out of curiosity - would an expansion that puts the options of Caverna on par with Agricola change your opinion? Some people mentioned that the issue with Caverna is the fact that every tile is laid out from the start. Although I believe a variation was discussed where a group could just distribute tiles to each player. That's another discussion though. What about core gameplay and not just the replayability factor?
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Jan 20, 2015 01:53
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Tekopo posted:Filled the form too, no feedback either. On the form it says "Please note that we are not sending a confirmation email." so I guess no feedback is the norm. And they are not replying to the comments about it on the KS page either, so I gather that they are first trying to deal with the hurdle of getting everyone a game, with all the trouble they got on that front, before starting to send out replacements.
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Jan 20, 2015 01:56
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Replayability aside, Caverna is definitely less mean and off-putting than Agricola (and indeed other worker placement games at that complexity) but I found it really lacking in elegance. It's a good choice for people who love having a ton of components all over the board and in their stockpiles and different ways to get what they need. It made me realise that I fundamentally value the strict feeling of worker placement games though, that feeling that you really have to do 3 things right now so other people can't take them from you but you only have one action. Keyflower and Dungeon Lords both retain that feeling despite theoretically letting up to 3 people take the same action each round. I'd probably vote for Stone Age as the best game for people who want to dip their toes in to worker placement, Tolk'in seems alright as well but I've not played it much. I haven't played Dungeon Petz myself but I watched a game last night and it looks incredible.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:08
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SolitarySolidarity posted:So Agricola is preferred by you because of the replayability of the base game and expansions. What if Caverna offered an expansion that significantly improved the number of tiles to add to the replayability? I know it's not currently an option and therefore shouldn't enter the equation when deciding whether Caverna or Agricola is better, but just out of curiosity - would an expansion that puts the options of Caverna on par with Agricola change your opinion? Yeah no doubt in my mind if they added Occupation and Minor Improvement cards in a Caverna expansion I would be all over it. I have actually been half tempted to pick up a copy of Caverna and try to figure out a way to use my Agricola cards with it in some kind of super sized Frankenstein game. They both have almost identical resources and animals, etc. Rubies, donkeys, and reed would be problems. Caverna is much more newbie friendly. It doesn't make you feel like you are failing as badly. I expect that newbies will lose at Caverna just as often as Agricola but it won't leave as bitter a taste in their mouth. You have to figure out the timing of Agricola before you get to play that actual "game" which doesn't really add much to the game itself beyond making it harder to teach. In that sense Caverna is superior, in that a new player is much more likely to enjoy their first game even if it's explained poorly to them.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:18
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Bubble-T posted:Keyflower and Dungeon Lords both retain that feeling despite theoretically letting up to 3 people take the same action each round. I'd probably vote for Stone Age as the best game for people who want to dip their toes in to worker placement, Tolk'in seems alright as well but I've not played it much. I've found that in Keyflower, being able to take actions up to three times makes it feel more aggressive when you completely block someone's action with three meeples than in other WP games I've played.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:30
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unpronounceable posted:I've found that in Keyflower, being able to take actions up to three times makes it feel more aggressive when you completely block someone's action with three meeples than in other WP games I've played. It is a very aggressive game but I think it lets the players ease themselves in to that a bit more as opposed to Agricola where you automatically block other players any time you do something and then the game beats everyone up for good measure. Keyflower is really clever.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:41
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Stone Age was my own introduction to worker placement, so I've got a fondness for it. It's very streamlined, in that there are a few clear ways to get victory points (cultures, cards, huts), and a few clear ways to achieve those goals, (more tools, more meeples, more farms) while also giving you something to keep you on the back foot (feeding your dudes) to teach you not to overextend. There's no question of "what does this do" that can't be explained in a sentence or two.
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Jan 20, 2015 02:52
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Speaking of WP my Dominant Species (among others) just arrived, couldn't resist  Want to get the 'Gric and Dungeon Lords too. I'm debased. e: If you're gonna do a big order online ($125+ for free shipping) I would highly recommend Cardhaus. They're pretty much the cheapest out there, they have a ton of inventory, and the turnaround is fast. T-Bone fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 03:02
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Aggressive worker placement? And no mention of Caylus or Dominant Species?
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Jan 20, 2015 03:03
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Carson City, bitches. Although it's super out of print right now
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Jan 20, 2015 03:10
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CodfishCartographer posted:What's the thread consensus on King's Forge? I played a game of it over the weekend and had a pretty fun time, but we only played a single game so didn't really have a lot of time to get a solid read on it. My wife and I have played a few games and We really enjoyed it. So I think it will be amongst my collection sooner or later. I didn't back the kickstarter because my friend went on a rant about professional game companies using kickstarter.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:13
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The End posted:Carson City, bitches. Although it's super out of print right now Carson City is an amazing game. Agricola is a terrible game for unhappy people.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:31
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I just played my first game of Eclipse And I was really loving impressed with it. The setup was a massive pain in the rear end, but it was a really easy game to learn. With all of your possible actions clearly listed on your player sheet. The biggest load of bullshit was the diplomacy though, with no shared victory it seemed like there was little reason not to throw away your ally at the first moment you could take advantage of it.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:33
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In just got a copy of Tragedy Looper and I'm trying to figure out exactly how intrigue works. I know filling up paranoia will trigger an incident, and that certain plots have a loss condition tied to sites and intrigue. How else does intrigue work on characters? Does it work in the same way where intrigue triggers plots on characters as well?
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Jan 20, 2015 05:51
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Social Dissonance posted:In just got a copy of Tragedy Looper and I'm trying to figure out exactly how intrigue works. I know filling up paranoia will trigger an incident, and that certain plots have a loss condition tied to sites and intrigue. How else does intrigue work on characters? Does it work in the same way where intrigue triggers plots on characters as well? Intrigue is for specific plots, roles, and certain incidents. They are the prerequisite for murder or protagonist loss, typically. Paranoia is specifically for triggering incidents.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:57
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ONUW is the 4th best traitor game, and the shortest of the good ones. The better traitor games are BSG, Avalon, and Resistance, with Resistance only beating Avalon if you have the expansions added. ONUW is fast, for better or for worse. It falls apart when players are introverted or when somebody's incredibly good at deduction, but it's arguable that these are intended features designed to keep the game length as absurdly short as it is. Setup time is often longer than the actual game. tarbrush posted:So what's the current best worker placement game going? Ideally something reasonably thematic and probably not too lengthy? Keyflower? Caverna? Agricola? The End posted:Carson City, bitches. Although it's super out of print right now Social Dissonance posted:In just got a copy of Tragedy Looper and I'm trying to figure out exactly how intrigue works. I know filling up paranoia will trigger an incident, and that certain plots have a loss condition tied to sites and intrigue. How else does intrigue work on characters? Does it work in the same way where intrigue triggers plots on characters as well? One of the beauties of Tragedy Looper is how straightforward each resource is combined with how elegantly they muck things up. Paranoia is only for Incidents, but it's still scary. Goodwill is only for Abilities, but it's still precious. Intrigue is only for Roles and Plot Rules, but it still drives players insane.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:13
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I don't like Carson City for the simple fact that it's super susceptible to kingmaking. In the four games I've played of it, I won three of them because someone decided that I should win. It felt really hollow. Also Broken Loose's point about being able to bump dudes off doesn't sit well with me either. If I recall, there's not even a consolation action. It's pretty brutal.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:21
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quote:The biggest load of bullshit was the diplomacy though, with no shared victory it seemed like there was little reason not to throw away your ally at the first moment you could take advantage of it. With an actual alliance, there is shared victory and there is a VP penalty for breaking an alliance. I think alliances were just in the expansion (I haven't played base Eclipse in a while...)? Diplomacy is a more temporary, breakable arrangement by design.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:21
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:I just played my first game of Eclipse And I was really loving impressed with it. The setup was a massive pain in the rear end, but it was a really easy game to learn. With all of your possible actions clearly listed on your player sheet. The biggest load of bullshit was the diplomacy though, with no shared victory it seemed like there was little reason not to throw away your ally at the first moment you could take advantage of it. I actually love Eclipse's diplomacy. Peace offers economic benefits at the cost of end game VPs and the traitor card is just painful enough that it punishes players for acting as you suggest (unless you gain a ton of VPs from breaking peace you're probably hurting yourself and doing a favor to your victim). It makes diplomatic relations something you have to really think about instead of a no-brainer.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:22
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Have you fellas tried it with the cards versus the dice? Would make it a bit more strategic, and less random, possibly smoothing over the offence of having contestable worker placement?GrandpaPants posted:I don't like Carson City for the simple fact that it's super susceptible to kingmaking. In the four games I've played of it, I won three of them because someone decided that I should win. It felt really hollow. Also Broken Loose's point about being able to bump dudes off doesn't sit well with me either. If I recall, there's not even a consolation action. It's pretty brutal. Not entirely, you do get any losing cowboys back, so you have extra actions next round. Kind of sucks in the last round, but hey, if you don't have enough guns to stave off attacks by that point, you're playing it wrong.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:27
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Isn't an alliance in Eclipse only worth 1 point when all the combat result tiles range from 1 to 5? I haven't played in a while, and only once, but I remember thinking that making it 2 points, rather than equal to literally the worst possible combat outcome would make it more appealing.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:31
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ThisIsNoZaku posted:Isn't an alliance in Eclipse only worth 1 point when all the combat result tiles range from 1 to 5? I haven't played in a while, and only once, but I remember thinking that making it 2 points, rather than equal to literally the worst possible combat outcome would make it more appealing. Up to four from what I recall. The question is whether you can leverage the extra income into more VPs than you lose out on. It's already a close thing and I definitely wouldn't want to increase the value. I suspect it would kill any incentive for combat between players.
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Jan 20, 2015 07:43
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"Broken Loose"[/quote posted:
Without going into Spoilers, one of the intro loops does something a little dumb by making a character able to do the same thing via both intrigue and paranoia. It would be a little less confusing to understand if it was split between two characters instead, or just had a different incident. At the same time it might be helpful to teach, as when you understand that you then understand how those events can be completely separated. I'm really looking forward to running the game now. It almost reminds me of Picross, where players are chiseling away at the possibilities of what could be before their loops run out. I've read that there are multiple expansions in the works, but it seems like it'd be very easy to make new custom plots/roles/incidents and have them printed out. Seeing as my group has cut it's teeth on Avalon for a long time, the logic shouldn't be hard. Any ideas on how you could accommodate 5 people? I don't know if sharing a hand or having a deck rotate players would make more sense.
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Jan 20, 2015 08:01
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:I just played my first game of Eclipse And I was really loving impressed with it. The setup was a massive pain in the rear end, but it was a really easy game to learn. I was also really impressed with it. The iOS version is super well done as well, and the AI players are at least decent. They sure gave my dumb rear end a challenge, anyway. I particularly like how elements on the player cards do and track multiple things. It makes upkeep and planning much simpler. I think the humans are meant to look severe but every single one of them just looks like they discovered a nasty fart instead.
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Jan 20, 2015 08:06
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quote:Isn't an alliance in Eclipse only worth 1 point when all the combat result tiles range from 1 to 5? I haven't played in a while, and only once, but I remember thinking that making it 2 points, rather than equal to literally the worst possible combat outcome would make it more appealing. There's a twist, though, in that some of the "VP holes" only fit combat vps and some only fit diplomatic VPs (and this varies with races). The vanilla race, humans, has one slot that can only be filled by diplomatic VPs (I think, I haven't memorized the boards), so you're actually getting a small bonus for a bit of diplomacy rather than a hit. If you have no diplomatic-only VP holes, that means your race is themed as proud warriors or something, so it makes sense that diplomacy won't optimize your VP. In general, though, I'm glad the game rewards combat as well as it does - too many similar games make combat a black-hole for all participants. I actually quite like the diplomatic options in Eclipse (and the full-on alliances, so much so that we often have pre-set start-of-game alliances when we play). Overall, other than the terrible dicefest combat resolution, I find little to complain about with Eclipse. Oh, and if you want to dumpster the Eclipse app AI, you can use the same strategy you use against humans in base Eclipse - rush Plasma Missiles, then turtle with complete immunity or push people off whatever you want. For whatever people say, they were totally a problem in the base game, and bullying the AI with them is a fun way to prove this to yourself.
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Jan 20, 2015 08:39
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CodfishCartographer posted:What's the thread consensus on King's Forge? I played a game of it over the weekend and had a pretty fun time, but we only played a single game so didn't really have a lot of time to get a solid read on it. It holds up pretty well over multiple games because there's a lot of variety. Different gathering locations and different available crafts means there's no single best strategy. You always feel like you've got a chance at something but it's very expensive to be certain you can do it.
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Jan 20, 2015 09:00
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So, Dungeon Lords with only two people: Does it actually work? I might get more people occasionally, but mostly I guess it would just be the girlfriend and me..
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Jan 20, 2015 09:19
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