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orange juche posted:Only the most retarded stay in, eh MML? Or the ones with kids... 
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Jan 20, 2015 08:44
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Just to dispel the "200 Ensigns for every 1 DH" thing a little more, the number of DH's that need to come from each year group is somewhere in the neighborhood of 275 (plus or minus a few depending on some minutia). If that 200:1 ratio were true that would mean that the SWO community alone would have to assess 55,000 ensigns a year. Edit: For actual numbers, the retention rate for the last decade or so is around 30% or so for the SWO community. ManMythLegend fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 08:58
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Boon posted:I think I'm one of the few exceptions to that policy. As an Officer 
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Jan 20, 2015 09:12
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ManMythLegend posted:Or the ones with kids... I still remember SWOSDOC - one of the instructors asked "how many of you are going the full 20?" Not a single hand went up. Then he said "yeah, let's see how those numbers look after your girlfriends get pregnant"
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Jan 20, 2015 13:33
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Stultus Maximus posted:I still remember SWOSDOC - one of the instructors asked "how many of you are going the full 20?" Yeah, it's absolutely true. I'm pretty candid with both juniors and seniors alike that I would have gotten out even with my MSR ending in 08/09 at the height of the recession if it weren't for having a newborn. It was like the perfect storm.
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Jan 20, 2015 13:42
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Don't have kids.
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Jan 20, 2015 13:44
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Eh. Kids are ok. I don't regret having them. They're not for everyone though.
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Jan 20, 2015 13:49
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I remember when we got asked "So who's doing 20?" and looking back, those of us that raised our hands are the ones that talk the most about getting out after first tour now. Meanwhile the ones that sat and snickered are the ones that re-upped. I think it's because the hand-raisers set higher expectations about what this would be like when they joined and wanted to "do 20" that for whichever reason weren't met. The snickerers had no expectations going in and were met with a relatively simple "show up, get money" lifestyle that only requires the exact amount of effort you're willing to put in to keep the paychecks coming. Hand-raisers get out or are embittered through a second tour, while the snickerers never knew they'd have it so good and said gently caress it. I was a hand-raiser, though I don't hate the Navy or anything all things considered. I just think the things it does are loving stupid sometimes.
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Jan 20, 2015 14:07
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Analogical posted:I remember when we got asked "So who's doing 20?" and looking back, those of us that raised our hands are the ones that talk the most about getting out after first tour now. Meanwhile the ones that sat and snickered are the ones that re-upped. I think it's because the hand-raisers set higher expectations about what this would be like when they joined and wanted to "do 20" that for whichever reason weren't met. Yeah you're right nubs are loving stupid as poo poo
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Jan 20, 2015 22:55
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I always took mental note of the dudes that re-enlisted and 9 times out of 10 they had a fat wife and or kids Also god drat all the guys I met early on are married with kids pretty much. Barracks suck I guess
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Jan 20, 2015 23:21
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Getting married, knocking someone up/getting knocked up and loading a credit card with 10k+ debt are the biggest catches for people in terms of re-enlisting, imo. I can understand the stability that it promises, in addition to padding your savings account with 20k~ net for "just four more years". Then when those four are up "well you're only halfway to retirement". The smart money is lining everything up so you get the absolute most training, work experience and college credits/degrees.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:47
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Analogical posted:Getting married, knocking someone up/getting knocked. Getting married to a great chick and not having kids while the Navy pays for us to hang out in Hawaii for a while getting experience in a field that has civilian job prospects. Also getting my certs. Feels good man. Moral: don't knock up your chicks so drat soon
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Jan 21, 2015 03:25
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Where was all this DC help when I asked a few months ago?  Anyway, what's the Navy (DOD) policy on marrying and then getting divorced in terms of paycheck? I've had several junior guys asking me this and I can't give them an honest answer other than don't get married, but I've heard all sorts of sea-lawyer poo poo from some of the salty first classes ranging from "it doesn't matter if you had a prenup, the Navy will dock your pay," to "if you were married for 10 years or more they get 50%, but otherwise they don't get a dime as long as you don't have kids/child support." Does having separate accounts matter?
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Jan 21, 2015 04:04
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germskr posted:Where was all this DC help when I asked a few months ago? The Navy won't do anything to their pay. It works like any other divorce settlement.
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Jan 21, 2015 04:17
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Had a guy go to mast because his wife had filed a restraining order against him and then kept harassing him so he would violate it (idiot should have got one against her, too so that wouldn't happen) and the CO put him on restriction until he filed for divorce. He had those papers in hand in about 2 days through base legal. poo poo was funny as hell.
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Jan 21, 2015 04:50
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A Marine buddy is in the process of a divorce and they make him pay $900 to his wife. I don't remember if it was until it was finalized or for x amount of time. They keep tricare if you're married for 20+ even after a divorce, no? Some poo poo like that This is all sea lawyer poo poo so idk
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Jan 21, 2015 04:50
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:A Marine buddy is in the process of a divorce and they make him pay $900 to his wife. I don't remember if it was until it was finalized or for x amount of time. They also get part of your retirement.
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Jan 21, 2015 04:56
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Stultus Maximus posted:They also get part of your retirement. And they should. As you all know, the hardest job in the military is 'wife'.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:49
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Nostalgia4Dicks posted:A Marine buddy is in the process of a divorce and they make him pay $900 to his wife. I don't remember if it was until it was finalized or for x amount of time. They are only eligible for TRICARE if you retire, you were married for at least 20 years and there was 20 years of overlap in the marriage and the time on active duty. This goes away if the dependent spouse remarries. If the dependent spouse has insurance coverage of their own then TRICARE becomes a secondary payor. As for your Marine buddy, he was probably getting his pay garnished as part of his divorce settlement as ordered by the state with jurisdiction. Stultus Maximus posted:They also get part of your retirement. USFSPA covers provisions for military divorce. It doesn't automatically entitle a divorcee to a portion of the retirement, it merely says that the state may treat the retirement benefits as marital property and divide it accordingly. In practice this can mean up to 50% of the retirement benefits but this is completely negotiable. A buddy of mine avoided this by basically selling his home and dividing the money between him and his ex-wife. They didn't have kids and weren't married that long so it was fairly simple. PneumonicBook posted:And they should. My wife thinks this attitude is absolutely hilarious.
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Jan 21, 2015 06:21
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PneumonicBook posted:And they should. if they are actually faithful they earned it as if that ever happens
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Jan 21, 2015 06:50
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Any of y'all ever been to BUD/S? feel free to ridicule me I can take it
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Jan 21, 2015 11:14
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:Any of y'all ever been to BUD/S? I asked a SEAL in the smoke pit about BUD/S, he laughed and called me loser.
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Jan 21, 2015 11:15
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Null Integer posted:I asked a SEAL in the smoke pit about BUD/S, he laughed and called me loser. lol I went to SFAS in the army in 2009, got injured, recovered, went on deployment, and when I got back was at the tail end of my enlistment, so I got out and went to school. I learned a couple years ago that I had a slight abnormal spinal curvature, managed to correct it through physical therapy, and holy god everything is just a million billion times easier for me now. I was always kind of average in the army, but I never ever quit anything; in basic on the really long ruck marches (I was a scout) I'd always be in the back, sucking, my back in searing pain, and even when they had to constantly get on my rear end the drill sergeants gave me credit for pushing on despite very clearly being in a lot of pain. I thought I was just being a pussy, now I know it was because the army's lovely doctors didn't catch the fact that my spine was all hosed up. On deployments I just shifted my weight around on my kit so that it wasn't all on my back and I was always fine, but in basic (And at SFAS...) that wasn't allowed. But now I feel loving great, I feel like I can do anything. I'm about to start my final year of school, and after the end of last year I started thinking about what I want to do when I'm done. I gave it a lot of thought and research and decided that I wanted to give BUD/S a shot. Started learning how to swim (I could get in the water and not drown, but I had never been taught how to swim before and couldn't bear, psychologically, going underwater). That was an ordeal but now I've got it, I can swim and swim and swim; the farthest I've gone so far is 2 k but I think I can go farther.
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Jan 21, 2015 11:29
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yw
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Jan 21, 2015 12:46
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:BUD/s poo poo You better be drat sure you will have absolutely no issues in BUD/s. Most BUD/s duds I've known had to go undesignated immediately after failing out and then you're in for the Navy's Wild Ride. If you want a preview of this Wild Ride, shadow your nearest High School Janitor while simultaneously partying with the students. Also get the shahada out of your title you fgt this is GIP and you come in here full Quranic with diacritics. You're going to give one of our grunts a PTSD episode 
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Jan 21, 2015 12:47
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Analogical posted:Also get the shahada out of your title you fgt this is GIP and you come in here full Quranic with diacritics. You're going to give one of our grunts a PTSD episode if anyone unironically throws a tantrum over it I am going to laugh, hard also yeah barring legit injuries that occur during training I don't think I should have any "issues", other than just deciding I can't hack it and DORing. I can run, I can swim, I can ruck, I'm stronger now than I ever was in the army and I'm going to get a lot stronger before I'm ready to re-enlist. hahahaha yes/yes/yes is obviously how my first enlistment went. gonna try again, though, and if I fail I'll try one more time before I'm too old. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 12:58 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 12:56
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Have you looked into the SEAL Officer route?
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Jan 21, 2015 13:01
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Analogical posted:Have you looked into the SEAL Officer route? Yes, I have, and I'm still not sure which way I'll go. I've heard from a reliable source that, due to the rigidity of officer career progression, if you fail BUD/S once that's it, you can't go back. I feel pretty confident I can make it through, but, as I learned at SFAS, there's all kinds of unexpected stuff that can happen. At SFAS I slipped in soft sand with a 60 pound ruck on my back and suffered a minor achilles' rupture. This time I'll be married, and if something happens with my wife's family or she has some other kind of emergency and I can't keep a clear head for six long months of hard training? Yeesh. I'm confident I can make it through but not so confident that I'm super willing to bet everything on one go. I'll talk to a recruiter and get all of the details (or as many as I can) in writing before I make the decision, but right now I'm leaning towards enlisting, and then maybe trying to commission from the ranks (especially if I take two tries and still don't make it).
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Jan 21, 2015 13:14
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:Yes, I have, and I'm still not sure which way I'll go. I've heard from a reliable source that, due to the rigidity of officer career progression, if you fail BUD/S once that's it, you can't go back. I feel pretty confident I can make it through, but, as I learned at SFAS, there's all kinds of unexpected stuff that can happen. At SFAS I slipped in soft sand with a 60 pound ruck on my back and suffered a minor achilles' rupture. This time I'll be married, and if something happens with my wife's family or she has some other kind of emergency and I can't keep a clear head for six long months of hard training? Yeesh. I'm confident I can make it through but not so confident that I'm super willing to bet everything on one go. Go SEAL Officer. So you get one shot at BUD/s, if you fail out you can throw yourself at the mercy of SWCC or EOD possibly. Either way, failing out of BUD/s as an ENS is a lot better than failing out as Seaman Apprentice and cleaning ships, especially if you have a family. You'll be making more money and it's more responsible to take the opportunity and give BUD/s your one try. If you fail out of BUD/s enlisted you'll have a hell of a time getting back to it any time soon too. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I know a lot of BUD/s duds who have tried everything to get back. Maybe an officer can chime in on any stories they know of people that dudded out as officers going into another SPECWAR program. Bear in mind that there are a lot of different opportunities for officers to do SPECWAR that aren't advertised, if you're so inclined, in the intel community. So if you don't make BUD/s on that one shot you get, you aren't out of luck entirely though it may be still be annoying to get back in.
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Jan 21, 2015 13:18
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My Reserves OIC was a BUD/S washout. He's extremely in shape, maxes every part of the PRT, works as a SWAT cop now. I assume this story is true: He says he failed out because they were doing some cold water immersion thing and he went unconscious. He woke up in the ICU at the local hospital. Apparently he had developed hypothermia and either his liver or kidneys had failed, I forgot which. He pulled the IVs out, fell out of his bed, and was intercepted by the orderlies while trying to crawl to the door. They said he was screaming "gotta get back to the beach" over and over again until they sedated him. He ended up being redesignated into a SWO, did his mandatory time, then got out.
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Jan 21, 2015 13:20
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I'm going to finish my JD this year, so if I really want to be super responsible and put family first commissioning into the navy isn't high on the list e: hi OJ TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 13:20
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:I can run, I can swim, I can ruck, I'm stronger now than I ever was in the army and I'm going to get a lot stronger before I'm ready to re-enlist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a91oTyA0Oq8
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Jan 21, 2015 13:32
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Go officer. You've been on the enlisted side already. Don't make that mistake twice.
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Jan 21, 2015 14:20
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Fart Sandwiches posted:Go officer. You've been on the enlisted side already. Don't make that mistake twice. I'll put it more bluntly. If you reenlist you're an idiot. It's not uncommon to get rolled back in BUD/S. If you fail out entirely then yeah you probably aren't getting another chance, especially if it isn't medically related. If it is it will be a crap shoot.
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Jan 21, 2015 14:49
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Well there's also the fact that the officer billets for BUD/S are extremely competitive. You have to go to OCS, and then go to SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection where, as I understand it, they do a miniature "gut check" to see who is most likely to actually finish the course. Half the billets are reserved for academy grads, and there's apparently fewer than a hundred available most years. The good news is, if you go to OCS, and then you aren't selected, you have no obligation. If you joined saying "I want to be a SEAL officer" and then aren't selected you can just walk away. I'm not sure if enlisting is still an option if that happens, though. There's a lot of details like that that I need to get more information on before I decide.
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Jan 21, 2015 15:01
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So how much time passed between watching American sniper and deciding on buds?
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Jan 21, 2015 15:15
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Fart Sandwiches posted:So how much time passed between watching American sniper and deciding on buds? In that order? A negative amount, since I started training before I was aware it existed. I wouldn't want to be a sniper, anyway. I spent a little time on my company's sniper team in 06 while they cycled guys out on R&R and it hosed sucked.
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Jan 21, 2015 15:41
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:Well there's also the fact that the officer billets for BUD/S are extremely competitive. You have to go to OCS, and then go to SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection where, as I understand it, they do a miniature "gut check" to see who is most likely to actually finish the course. Half the billets are reserved for academy grads, and there's apparently fewer than a hundred available most years. When I graduated from the academy we had about 20 guys get selected for SEAL. They have to go through "mini-BUDS" which is run by SEAL officers and enlisted from USNA. They have to pass the training and be recommended by the SEALs on staff. It's definitely not half of accessions in a given year. I had a PR in one of my squadrons who was a civil engineer who decided he wanted to go SEAL. He was in BUDS and was dropped due to a pretty severe injury. As his reward he got to work on stinky flight gear for the remainder of his commitment while making considerably less money than he was in the civilian world. He was one of the lucky ones.
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Jan 21, 2015 16:25
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vulturesrow posted:When I graduated from the academy we had about 20 guys get selected for SEAL. They have to go through "mini-BUDS" which is run by SEAL officers and enlisted from USNA. They have to pass the training and be recommended by the SEALs on staff. It's definitely not half of accessions in a given year. Part of the NSW official recruitment team told me that.  e: it might have been academy + ROTC cadets. in which case that's still half I'm excluded from. TacticalUrbanHomo fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 16:38
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:Part of the NSW official recruitment team told me that. Probably ROTC+Academy. I'm sure accessions are up somewhat since my time as well. Even with that in mind I still think enlisting for the sole reason of going SEAL is A Really Bad Idea.
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Jan 21, 2015 16:51
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