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Tiggum posted:The thing is, we're getting the story from Watson's perspective to show how much more observant and perceptive Sherlock is. You're not supposed to be able to solve the mystery yourself, it's not that kind of story. It feels a bit awkward going to Holmes stories if you're used to reading golden age detective stories from after the rules for "fair" mysteries were established. We get a lot of Poirot's stories from Hastings's perspective, and the stories still show off how brilliant Poirot is, but they don't require the crutch of concealing the clues from the audience. If Poirot notices a strange stain on the rug in chapter 3, he points it out to Hastings in chapter 3, he doesn't wait until the last chapter to mention it. It's hard to blame the Holmes stories for not following rules that didn't exist when they were written, and that would never have existed had the Holmes stories not popularized the genre in the first place. But the 21st century adaptations don't have that excuse unless they're precisely retelling one of the original Holmes stories (which Sherlock, Elementary, and the movies are not), and if someone today is looking for a mystery story to read then I'd recommend one of the later, "fair" mysteries over Holmes. Lottery of Babylon has a new favorite as of 06:27 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 06:15
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Holmes is a mary sue and Watson is the reader eager to point this fact out at any opportunity. Someone buy Watson an account, he'd do good in this thread.
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Jan 21, 2015 06:21
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Silly Newbie posted:Returning Boomerang Traditional BIG CIRCLE FLIGHT…: http://youtu.be/4QX6g1oAAgc Not the ones that you hit things with.
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Jan 21, 2015 06:25
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ArcMage posted:Not the ones that you hit things with. That guy wasn't hunting with it, it was just throwing it, so it would have been one meant to return.
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Jan 21, 2015 07:24
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ArcMage posted:Not the ones that you hit things with. Excuse me, now you're going to tell me that this isn't true 
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Jan 21, 2015 11:56
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Just wanted to mention the best Sherlock Holmes adaption. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyGAc-OLAiQ
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Jan 21, 2015 14:46
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Memento posted:I get that a lot of people hate the movie because of that scene, and I agree with you that telling your audience to shut and and watch is dumb (unless you're Mastodon at the start of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie, or Austin Powers) but it's a movie about time travel and like all movies about things that will always be impossible, it's kind of nice to just be entertained. Admittedly, I apparently wasn't Loopers target demographic. Which probably had a lot to do with why I hated it so much. I'm one of those nerds who when I watch a time travel movie I prepare a pencil and notepad before I even hit play. I enjoy mapping it all out as I watch. In a box in my closet I have a half a spiral notebook worth of Terminator notes for god sakes. And you don't even want to see my Primer notebook. So to go into Looper with this mindset, and have the film essentially say people like me are idiots, felt like a personal insult. I get that maybe the method with which I enjoy time travel movies isn't for everybody, but there was no need to blatantly insult me over it. Had that scene not been included I would have let Looper fall into obscurity and never thought about it again. On a related note, Coherence irritates me. I've watched it twice and something just doesn't add up. Certain aspects of the plot only make sense if we assume the girl who arrived late to the party at the beginning of the film was the first person to jump realities, but that would mean she jumped before the realities converged so the timing is way off. And then throughout the film they make it very clear that the convergence took place on that night and all the realities are the same as before convergence and only began to differ afterwards. But then in the last ten minutes they throw this out the window so one of the girls can find a reality where she achieved her dream career. These two instances combined irritate me because Coherence is a drat good film and unless I'm missing something major then it appears the script was written by one set of very competent writers, and then someone else with a red pen and no concept of consistency jumped in undid it all. Esroc has a new favorite as of 15:00 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 14:56
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Dr_Amazing posted:Just wanted to mention the best Sherlock Holmes adaption. This isn't The Great Mouse Detective.
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Jan 21, 2015 17:52
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's hard to blame the Holmes stories for not following rules that didn't exist when they were written, and that would never have existed had the Holmes stories not popularized the genre in the first place. But the 21st century adaptations don't have that excuse unless they're precisely retelling one of the original Holmes stories (which Sherlock, Elementary, and the movies are not), and if someone today is looking for a mystery story to read then I'd recommend one of the later, "fair" mysteries over Holmes. Esroc posted:Admittedly, I apparently wasn't Loopers target demographic. Which probably had a lot to do with why I hated it so much. I'm one of those nerds who when I watch a time travel movie I prepare a pencil and notepad before I even hit play. I enjoy mapping it all out as I watch. In a box in my closet I have a half a spiral notebook worth of Terminator notes for god sakes. And you don't even want to see my Primer notebook. So to go into Looper with this mindset, and have the film essentially say people like me are idiots, felt like a personal insult. I get that maybe the method with which I enjoy time travel movies isn't for everybody, but there was no need to blatantly insult me over it. Had that scene not been included I would have let Looper fall into obscurity and never thought about it again. Are you guys sure that fiction is really what you're looking for? I think you might prefer murder mystery dinner theater, or magic the gathering or sudoku
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Jan 21, 2015 19:17
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swamp waste posted:Are you guys sure that fiction is really what you're looking for? I think you might prefer murder mystery dinner theater, or magic the gathering or sudoku One of those posters might fall onto the spectrum somewhere 
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Jan 21, 2015 19:20
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"If you enjoy Ellery Queen then you obviously shouldn't be reading fiction at all and should play tic tac toe with you'rself instead, and might be autistic" lol Detective novels are fun because you get to follow along and form your own theories and try to figure out what's going on yourself. It's unlikely that you'll actually succeed, but you can figure out pieces of it, the journey of trying to solve it is fun. The conclusion to the story is satisfying because the detective figures it out using the same information you had - if you didn't put it together, it's because it was a tricky puzzle, not because half the pieces were missing. It also makes the detective look smarter, since when he wins by putting together the information more cleverly than you managed to, he's actually outwitted you - he didn't just pull some extra clues out of his rear end that you couldn't possibly know about.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:16
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Fun?! Look pal, I don't read for fun ok.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:19
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Dr_Amazing posted:Just wanted to mention the best Sherlock Holmes adaption. This reminds me of the Farscape intro for some reason.
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Jan 21, 2015 21:50
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Wild T posted:Excuse me, now you're going to tell me that this isn't true I don't know what to believe anymore.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:21
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If you are such a sperg about consistent time travel movies you should watch Primer. It probably has consistent time travel but who the gently caress knows because it's terrible to watch.
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Jan 21, 2015 22:26
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Esroc posted:Admittedly, I apparently wasn't Loopers target demographic. Which probably had a lot to do with why I hated it so much. I'm one of those nerds who when I watch a time travel movie I prepare a pencil and notepad before I even hit play. I enjoy mapping it all out as I watch. In a box in my closet I have a half a spiral notebook worth of Terminator notes for god sakes. And you don't even want to see my Primer notebook. So to go into Looper with this mindset, and have the film essentially say people like me are idiots, felt like a personal insult. I get that maybe the method with which I enjoy time travel movies isn't for everybody, but there was no need to blatantly insult me over it. Had that scene not been included I would have let Looper fall into obscurity and never thought about it again. I really liked Coherence and I'm actually considering mapping it out (I keep showing it to friends hoping I can find someone who enjoys it on the same level as me). I think that you're making the same assumptions the characters do - I think Laurie and Mike being from different universes at the start disproves Mike's theory about 'and I've slept with your wife in each of them' is hella wrong too.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:07
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Looper put that line in to try to head off a bunch of inane time travel discussion, only for it to be a catalyst for the very thing it sought to prevent, mirroring Old Joe's quest. Coincidence?
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Jan 21, 2015 23:13
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I liked Looper because the guys using time travel didn't invent it, don't know how it works, and are using it for an incredibly awful function. It would be like if Paulie and Big Pussy from the Sopranos found a time machine, you wouldn't expect them to understand how time travel works, but you can be drat sure they'd try to exploit it for their own benefit. There aren't really any rules to be broken because the guys running things are just making wild assumptions about how things work and then forcing everybody to follow those "rules". It also allows for the main character to grow as a person, because he's confronted with his own future who - despite detesting him and claiming to be far more high-minded and selfish - is exactly the same hosed up, angry and selfish person that his past self is, just hiding it behind justifications of doing it for his dead wife. Joe destroying his own future is the first selfless act we see him ever actually make, and it is only possible because he's been forced to seriously face up to the future for the first time in his life, where before it was all fantasies of living the high life in France (and later China).
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Jan 21, 2015 23:19
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On a related note, Coherence irritates me. I've watched it twice and something just doesn't add up. Certain aspects of the plot only make sense if we assume the girl who arrived late to the party at the beginning of the film was the first person to jump realities, but that would mean she jumped before the realities converged so the timing is way off. And then throughout the film they make it very clear that the convergence took place on that night and all the realities are the same as before convergence and only began to differ afterwards. But then in the last ten minutes they throw this out the window so one of the girls can find a reality where she achieved her dream career. These two instances combined irritate me because Coherence is a drat good film and unless I'm missing something major then it appears the script was written by one set of very competent writers, and then someone else with a red pen and no concept of consistency jumped in undid it all. [/quote] But she wasn't the first to jump realities. I thought the start of when you could jump to different realities happened after the lights went out and the glass broke. Also you had to pass through a super dark patch to jump realities, right? Granted I forget if that happened to the women on the way out her car or not.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:38
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kazil posted:If you are such a sperg about consistent time travel movies you should watch Primer. It probably has consistent time travel but who the gently caress knows because it's terrible to watch. Upstream Color was really good though. It's a shame nerds didn't give a gently caress about that one.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:41
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Looper has a deleted scene where right after saying "we could explain this", he does. So if you people care that much about how it works, they do kindof explain it.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:19
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Under the vegetable posted:Upstream Color was really good though. It's a shame nerds didn't give a gently caress about that one. Nah, it was dumb.
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Jan 22, 2015 00:51
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I just hope we don't have to wait like another 9 years again for Shane Carruth to make another movie.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:06
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grate deceiver posted:Nah, it was dumb. SHUT IT DOWN BOYS
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Jan 22, 2015 01:19
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Esroc posted:Admittedly, I apparently wasn't Loopers target demographic. Which probably had a lot to do with why I hated it so much. I'm one of those nerds who when I watch a time travel movie I prepare a pencil and notepad before I even hit play. I enjoy mapping it all out as I watch. In a box in my closet I have a half a spiral notebook worth of Terminator notes for god sakes. And you don't even want to see my Primer notebook. So to go into Looper with this mindset, and have the film essentially say people like me are idiots, felt like a personal insult. I get that maybe the method with which I enjoy time travel movies isn't for everybody, but there was no need to blatantly insult me over it. Had that scene not been included I would have let Looper fall into obscurity and never thought about it again. If you have notebooks on movie plots then more power to you, I just think you're setting yourself up for disappointment when you hold them up to a higher standard than anyone working on them did.
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Jan 22, 2015 01:57
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Lottery of Babylon posted:"If you enjoy Ellery Queen then you obviously shouldn't be reading fiction at all and should play tic tac toe with you'rself instead, and might be autistic" Honestly, only a very small part of detective fiction fits that bill, Golden Age fiction being one of them. But Holmes and a lot of hardboiled and noir fiction is fun because of the journey rather than the destination: you're not supposed to figure it out, because the slow entanglement and confusion are what it's about. Raymond Chandler's writing is a good example of this: the type of story where it's all about becoming immersed in a certain vision of the world and enjoying the role, character and position of the detective rather than the solution to the case. Detective fiction can very well be about the detective rather than the case. Put shortly, I am a very big fan of this piece. That said, I can enjoy a good puzzle box from time to time. Personally, I prefer them in spy fiction, but that's just because I'm weird.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:06
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I always thought it was weird how in Jurrassic Park Hammond starts out as their tour guide. He's the CEO of a billion dollar international company, where is he going to find time to give 3 tours a day?
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Jan 22, 2015 10:24
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Your Gay Uncle posted:I always thought it was weird how in Jurrassic Park Hammond starts out as their tour guide. He's the CEO of a billion dollar international company, where is he going to find time to give 3 tours a day? That was a special tour, dude. His grandkids, and the fuckers he hopes will say "this is loving awesome, open it right away!" And his d-bag lawyer who wants them to say "shut it down before you get sued! It's too dangerous!"
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Jan 22, 2015 10:30
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It does fit with everything else; a lot of things haven't gotten much forethought besides "dinosaurs!" And the tour ride isn't even ready as we see.
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Jan 22, 2015 10:32
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kazil posted:If you are such a sperg about consistent time travel movies you should watch Primer. It probably has consistent time travel but who the gently caress knows because it's terrible to watch. The best thing about Primer is how Shane Carruth clearly doesn't want you to be able to map it. In his interviews about it, and everything to do with Upstream Colour he talks about how he's interested in the emotional side of it, how you react to a science or a reality that you do not and cannot understand. Primer is confusing, because it's structure encourages you to map it. But you can't, there's so many different maps out there, because the paradox you cause by going back erases that information. You physically can't know.
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Jan 22, 2015 11:42
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I just liked how the beginning of the movie captured the feel of being a real engineer/developer rather than the usual Hollywood mad scientist. Random crap strewn around, seeming Jerry rigged solutions to previous problems rather than a simple design, a workspace that seems used, the trial and error inherent in a project that is just barely out of his grasp, and the fact that the big eureka moment was initially a kind of anticlimactic "wait, what?" Instead of immediately going to the jumping for joy stage
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Jan 22, 2015 12:21
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time travel does not exist
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Jan 22, 2015 13:33
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sharts posted:time travel does not exist Truly irritating.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:04
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sharts posted:time travel does not exist It does, the problem is we can only go forward, and only within a very, very, VERY tiny range of speeds. But technically, if you take a LOT of long trips on planes (or even better, in orbit), you'll experience "less time" than other people. So...uhh...if you want to live as long as possible (at least, from other people's perspective, you'll still experience 80 years as 80 years,) always stay in a fast moving plane or on the space station.
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Jan 22, 2015 14:12
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sharts posted:time travel does not exist Au contraire! 
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Jan 22, 2015 15:16
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kizudarake posted:That was a special tour, dude. His grandkids, and the fuckers he hopes will say "this is loving awesome, open it right away!" And his d-bag lawyer who wants them to say "shut it down before you get sued! It's too dangerous!" No, in the tour's video he even references himself as if he'd be present at the tour each time it happened. "Hello John!" and "I'll need a drop of blood, your blood." only for him to start cloning more John Hammonds. I mean it could've been a video made for special tours, but it looks more like he's going to be there for each one. Of course, that could also just be John Hammond being a rich old kook who actually would be there for 3 tours a day. After all, he's got a million lines of code running his park, why would he need to do anything?!
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Jan 22, 2015 17:50
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But does he know the magic word?
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Jan 22, 2015 18:06
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DrBouvenstein posted:It does, the problem is we can only go forward, and only within a very, very, VERY tiny range of speeds. *swirlies u*
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Jan 22, 2015 18:11
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nucleicmaxid posted:No, in the tour's video he even references himself as if he'd be present at the tour each time it happened. "Hello John!" and "I'll need a drop of blood, your blood." only for him to start cloning more John Hammonds. I mean it could've been a video made for special tours, but it looks more like he's going to be there for each one. I'm pretty sure the plan was to clone himself to lead the tour at some point. I remember them discussing early Hammond clone failures. In fact, in the original novel, compys with bits of Hammond's DNA became a nuisance when they made it to South America by sneaking on cargo boats. The US government became involved when several Americans were killed. The compys spared no expats.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:35
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Professor Wayne posted:I'm pretty sure the plan was to clone himself to lead the tour at some point. I remember them discussing early Hammond clone failures. In fact, in the original novel, compys with bits of Hammond's DNA became a nuisance when they made it to South America by sneaking on cargo boats. The US government became involved when several Americans were killed. The compys spared no expats. That big red report button was callin' to me, man. Goddammit. 
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Jan 22, 2015 18:39
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