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ActusRhesus posted:http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/...lFlowFB_CTBrand "I think I was out for 3 days." Interesting, since measles is contagious 4 days before and 4 days after the rash appears. How very irresponsible of your doctors and parents, or perhaps just you're a loving moron who doesn't know what the gently caress they are talking about. Also, "Disneyland is a source of ongoing measles transmission", according to the Orange County Health Department, as now 5 employees have come down with it as well. Two of the employees infected were fully vaccinated, causing the anti-vaxxers to take to the comments sections of every article they can find, screaming "It looks like vaccination doesn't help after all! GOTCHA!" Yes, and seatbelts don't always save you in a car accident either, so you should definitely not use them. I'm off to sit on hold forever in an attempt to get my Disneyland tickets refunded. We got tickets for the first week in February through a program where they offer extremely discounted tickets to Californians with permanent disabilities...unfortunately, my immune-compromised child who recently had surgery won't be enjoying his day at the 'Land this year. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Five-Disneyland-Employees-Contracted-Measles-Health-Officials-289259921.html
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Jan 21, 2015 19:02
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For a special dose of batshit, check the facebook page of the first commenter on the article I linked.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:08
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ActusRhesus posted:http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/...lFlowFB_CTBrand It's just an instance of not really thinking things through. She had measles once and it probably didn't inconvenience her much more than a bad cold or a case of chickenpox would, and the same is almost certainly true of the infected teens and any other members of their high school, so to her, it seems like a big wacky overreaction about something that doesn't seem to be all that big of a deal. The part she doesn't realize, though, is that while measles is only really an annoyance to teenagers and adults, it's extremely dangerous to young children - most measles fatalities are under the age of 5. She's only really thinking about the immediate transmission to other students, which isn't particularly harmful...but she isn't thinking about (and it likely never occurred to her to think about) who those other students at risk for infection might in turn transmit the virus to, including younger brothers and sisters. Still, that's mostly just working from her own personal experience and not thinking widely enough about how widely diseases can spread and how it might affect other demographics besides her own and her own kids'. It's really not at the level of kooky conspiracy garbage.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:25
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no, she's not spewing lizard people nonsense, but she's still dumb. And this just happened on a friend's facebook: "to each their own. thats what i say. if your kids are vaccinated then you should have no worries for unvaccinated children to be around them.. some of them have disgusting ingredients in them though.. need to research which ones are mandatory and which ones are not, and what is in all these things. also watch for the chip, i know you think im crazy, but thats how they are going to get you. through iv. and they wont even tell you. all the ivs i had in the past year at the hospital, i probably have a chip in me already." Watch for the chip. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 19:33
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It is should not be a surprise that Disney employees are infected. Measles is incredibly contagious, and just going off the potential for a number of exposures versus the percentage of how often do you vaccine is ineffective, there will be employees who will be infected. It may seem unreasonable to close the park or find a temporary staffing for a necessary window, but those five employees may have had contact with many more people than an average person would and things may get a bit more hairy because of it. These employees may refocus things on Disney though, as they do not appear to be off to a good start of handling the issue, Instead of keeping the focus where it should be on vaccines.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:40
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ActusRhesus posted:no, she's not spewing lizard people nonsense, but she's still dumb. I don't know, the government sneaking microchips into injections is almost lizard people levels of paranoia.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:41
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I don't know, the government sneaking microchips into injections is almost lizard people levels of paranoia. two different posters though. one is misinformed about how measles works. One is batshit.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:44
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torpedan posted:Watching this outbreak unfold is as terrifying as it is depressing. So that, you know, at least their autism was due to natural causes and poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:56
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ActusRhesus posted:two different posters though. Ah, OK. I thought it was all the same person.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:15
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ActusRhesus posted:no, she's not spewing lizard people nonsense, but she's still dumb. This is insane Number of the Beast poo poo. How do you honestly keep yourself from going off on these people? Tact? gently caress tact. The Internet has no room for it when it's actual verified bullshit like this. Like, who the gently caress is 'they' and why are they micro chipping us? How does this person know this? Why does no one else know this but them? What's their morning urine intake* like? Is it helping them fight Big Pharma organically? *http://www.universal-tao.com/article/therapy.html Armani fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 21, 2015 |
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Jan 21, 2015 20:22
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Disney should use it's resources as a giant megacorp to make a pro vaccination campaign.Would do more good than those anti-bullying ones.(Which is a problem, but a smaller one.)
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Jan 21, 2015 20:22
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Armani posted:This is insane Number of the Beast poo poo. well, it wasn't my friend who posted it...it was one of her friends (who disturbingly has an associates degree in medical assisting) I bite my tongue so as not to cause a flame war on a friend's page. Were it on my page...oh yes, the gloves would come off. But luckily, it appears none of my friends are that goddamn stupid.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:25
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PhazonLink posted:Disney should use it's resources as a giant megacorp to make a pro vaccination campaign.Would do more good than those anti-bullying ones.(Which is a problem, but a smaller one.) This would be a really good idea. I'm wondering if there might be a Carnival Cruise-style suit against the parents of the kids impending.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:48
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I saw this NPR article about anti-vaxers the other day, apologies if it's a double post but I didn't see it.quote:Although vaccines are among the safest, most effective ways to protect children from major communicable diseases, some parents still doubt this. As a result, some choose immunization schedules that defy science or refuse to vaccinate altogether. They're like a walking bio-weapon.
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Jan 21, 2015 23:52
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I had a nurse suggest staggering and delaying som vaccines for my kids. I looked at her and said "no." I'm loving amazed this even happened.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:35
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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I am a nurse and have had co-workers who refused to vaccinate their children. Ultimately I think every person on earth is forced at birth to choose at least 1 crazy thing to believe and a lot of them probably just close their eyes and point because there's no other explanation.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:41
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I had a nurse suggest staggering and delaying som vaccines for my kids. I looked at her and said "no." What I hate about myself, at times, is that I instinctively look for a valid rationale- "oh, there's a concern about an extreme allergic reaction to the suspensio-oh, google says the staggering thing is because of autism fears. Dammit." Speaking of which, aforementioned googling turned up a Robert Sears, MD, out of (surprise!) California, as the origin of the staggering idea. Joy of joys, he's also a FAAP. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 03:46
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Delayed scheduling is like a bizarre application of the truth in the middle fallacy. My biggest issue with it is that t lends some credence to vaccines being responsible for what the are not.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:56
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I would pay money to have an RFID tag installed in me, if only so I could replace my door locks with RFID scanners and open them with MAGIC POWERS. What are microchips supposed to do to you, did they watch too much star trek and think that gluing bits of electronics onto you is how the borg assimilate you?
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Jan 22, 2015 04:08
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OwlFancier posted:I would pay money to have an RFID tag installed in me, if only so I could replace my door locks with RFID scanners and open them with MAGIC POWERS. They're going to let the gubmint spy on you! Totally unlike the cellphones we all carry and the inordinate amount of extremely personal poo poo they post on social media.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:11
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Discendo Vox posted:What I hate about myself, at times, is that I instinctively look for a valid rationale- "oh, there's a concern about an extreme allergic reaction to the suspensio-oh, google says the staggering thing is because of autism fears. Dammit." He's also the son of William Sears and works with daddy's practice in Orange County. I give you exhibit a that the "Sears Method" of attachment parenting leads to hosed up kids. Another fun fact: they are big backers of the juice plus ponzu scheme. Edit: autocorrect changes ponzi to ponzu. A ponzu scheme sounds delicious. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 04:17
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ActusRhesus posted:He's also the son of William Sears and works with daddy's practice in Orange County. I give you exhibit a that the "Sears Method" of attachment parenting leads to hosed up kids. We need to all band together, put our thinking caps on and figure out the whole CA medical license revocation thing. We could save a lot of lives.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:48
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Hot Dog Day #31 posted:I am a nurse and have had co-workers who refused to vaccinate their children. Ultimately I think every person on earth is forced at birth to choose at least 1 crazy thing to believe and a lot of them probably just close their eyes and point because there's no other explanation. Was this your crazy thing?
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Jan 22, 2015 07:35
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Discendo Vox posted:We need to all band together, put our thinking caps on and figure out the whole CA medical license revocation thing. We could save a lot of lives. Yeah. Sears is ridiculously popular among attachment parenting backers. Knowing that he and his kids all practice in the same clinic in an area where vaccine rates are unusually low suddenly makes a lot of sense. And yeah, something seems to be up with CA and its docs. A doc I prosecuted for sexually assaulting his patients was also a CA doc.
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Jan 22, 2015 12:19
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ActusRhesus posted:Yeah. Sears is ridiculously popular among attachment parenting backers. Knowing that he and his kids all practice in the same clinic in an area where vaccine rates are unusually low suddenly makes a lot of sense. And yeah, something seems to be up with CA and its docs. A doc I prosecuted for sexually assaulting his patients was also a CA doc. That had to be a good day at work.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:17
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Solkanar512 posted:That had to be a good day at work. It would have been far more satisfying had the government not chosen to ignore my recommendations and let him plead to a ridiculously trivial agreement and pathetically low jail sentence....and then tried to dump it all on me when the victims and Congress said "wtf?" Take home point: Do everything in writing. Save all your files. I did. Thank God.
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Jan 22, 2015 16:52
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What is "attachment parenting" in this context? I assume it means something other than tethering your child to you with a rope or the general sense of emotional attachment between children and parents?
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Jan 22, 2015 17:41
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OwlFancier posted:What is "attachment parenting" in this context? I assume it means something other than tethering your child to you with a rope or the general sense of emotional attachment between children and parents? The child is placed in what is essentially a large food processor, mulched, juiced, run through a filter, and then injected into the parent's reproductive organs so that they can take a second shot at the whole thing. Wikipedia has a decent summary, although it's too neutral in tone. What I'd stress is that the whole thing is completely unscientific, but wraps itself up in scientific rhetoric and invalid sources of evidentiary proof. In particular, "attachment parenting" should be understood as distinct from, but falsely claiming the authority of "attachment theory" in developmental psychology, which is not looking so hot itself these days anyways.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:48
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OwlFancier posted:What is "attachment parenting" in this context? I assume it means something other than tethering your child to you with a rope or the general sense of emotional attachment between children and parents? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_parenting It's basically a host of practices all of which proponents say promote a healthier bond and attachment with the child. However, a lot of the recommended practices are either unrealistic for working mothers, or explicitly questioned by other pediatricians (e.g. co-sleeping.) At the end of the day, I think it's up to parents to figure out what works best for their family, and if you want to got the attachment parenting route, good on you. Not my cup of tea, but also, not my kid. But many attachment parenting advocates can be a little on the judgmental side and argue (without evidence) that their method is superior and other methods are borderline child abuse. Not surprising there is a lot of overlap between attachment parenting advocates and anti-vaxxers. EDIT: Also what discendo vox said. I think as a general rule with parenting...so much of it is uncertain. Do what works for your family because it works for your family, not because "questionable study by Dr.-sells-juice-for-a-Ponzi-scheme" says that something something "or else your child will grow up to be a low IQ anxiety prone failure." If it's working for you and your kid, you shouldn't need to go trolling the underbelly of the internet to find "proof" that it's the correct method. And besides...there are all kinds of ways to gently caress up your kids. formula vs. bottle, co-sleeper vs. bassinet in a different room, baby wearing vs. neglect-o-matic 5000 baby swing will not really matter in the grand scheme of 18 years of stabbing in the dark. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 17:51
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Discendo Vox posted:The child is placed in what is essentially a large food processor, mulched, juiced, run through a filter, and then injected into the parent's reproductive organs so that they can take a second shot at the whole thing. That sounds like someone sat down and said "I wish my kid was more like Oedipus, how do I achieve that?" Edit: Also slightly amused that tethering your child to you with a rope is apparently part of the method. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 17:58
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This Disneyland thing has spread like crazy. Its on track to be the worst outbreak in decades.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:05
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OwlFancier posted:That sounds like someone sat down and said "I wish my kid was more like Oedipus, how do I achieve that?" heh. yeah. it's not for me. But really I wouldn't mind it so much but for the fact that so many attachment parenting types are complete douchebags about it to anyone who isn't into it. Same with a lot of other parenting theories. Just do what works for your kid and stfu about it. Oh, and baby leashes? No. Hell no.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:05
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ActusRhesus posted:Oh, and baby leashes? No. Hell no. Yeah, that poo poo is crazy as hell. I'd rather just follow my kid and let him explore than strap him into a leash like a dog. pentyne posted:This Disneyland thing has spread like crazy. Its on track to be the worst outbreak in decades. loving morons are literally killing people with their pseudoscience beliefs.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:09
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, that poo poo is crazy as hell. I'd rather just follow my kid and let him explore than strap him into a leash like a dog. Are the anti-vaxxers blaming immigrants or are they trying to pretend like measles is no big deal?
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Jan 22, 2015 18:11
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This is the very reason I kept 40 pounds of rice and dried black beans in my pantry. Living in north San Diego County in the midst of all this, no loving way am I going to grocery store for a while.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:12
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pentyne posted:Are the anti-vaxxers blaming immigrants or are they trying to pretend like measles is no big deal? They are pretending its no big deal. They argue that Measles and other diseases are 'Natural' and that you can gain a 'Natural Immunity' by being exposed to it. They literally have never seen the horrors of a pandemic, and make appeals to nature.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:13
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ActusRhesus posted:He's also the son of William Sears and works with daddy's practice in Orange County. I give you exhibit a that the "Sears Method" of attachment parenting leads to hosed up kids. Dad is pretty explicitly pro vaccination: http://www.parenting.com/article/ask-dr-sears-vaccinationimmunization-concerns quote:Because of my "historical" perspective, I have grown to appreciate the value of vaccines as a necessary public-health measure. Currently in our pediatric practice, we follow the vaccine schedule recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:22
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Discendo Vox posted:What I hate about myself, at times, is that I instinctively look for a valid rationale- "oh, there's a concern about an extreme allergic reaction to the suspensio-oh, google says the staggering thing is because of autism fears. Dammit." According to the link you posted, it's not "because of autism fears" so much as it it "because people stopped vaccinating due to autism fears". Your link, at least, suggests that staggered scheduling is something Sears offered up as a compromise position to skittish parents that otherwise might not vaccinate at all, and is designed (using real medical knowledge about the vaccines and the diseases they combat) in order to increase risks of infection and sickness as little as possible. If he was pushing it on everyone who walks through his door it'd be a bad thing since it does present some risks over the traditional vaccination schedule, but your article suggests he came up with it exclusively to appease vaccine skeptics and convince them to vaccinate their children, which makes it a good thing. And the risks are pretty slight anyway as long as herd immunity (which staggered scheduling doesn't really damage) holds up. pentyne posted:Are the anti-vaxxers blaming immigrants or are they trying to pretend like measles is no big deal? Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 18:24
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Main Paineframe posted:According to the link you posted, it's not "because of autism fears" so much as it it "because people stopped vaccinating due to autism fears". Your link, at least, suggests that staggered scheduling is something Sears offered up as a compromise position to skittish parents that otherwise might not vaccinate at all, and is designed (using real medical knowledge about the vaccines and the diseases they combat) in order to increase risks of infection and sickness as little as possible. If he was pushing it on everyone who walks through his door it'd be a bad thing since it does present some risks over the traditional vaccination schedule, but your article suggests he came up with it exclusively to appease vaccine skeptics and convince them to vaccinate their children, which makes it a good thing. And the risks are pretty slight anyway as long as herd immunity (which staggered scheduling doesn't really damage) holds up. I'd buy that if he hadn't published a book promoting it. Johnny Cache Hit posted:Dad is pretty explicitly pro vaccination: quote:Perhaps the one-size-fits-all vaccine policy may not sit well with every family, yet it's prudent to have an overall vaccine policy. It's best to discuss your individual concerns with your child's doctor, though, since there may be medical and lifestyle circumstances within your family that warrant individualizing your child's vaccination schedule. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth to maximize his client base.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:26
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Discendo Vox posted:He's talking out of both sides of his mouth to maximize his client base. Yup. Good post with some of Dr. Bob's thoughts: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/appeal-to-brady-bunch-vaccine-fallacy/ and also this one. http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/21/quoth-dr-bob-sears-poor-poor-pitiful-me-you-stupid-people/ Basically he's been making tons of money as the "reasonable middle ground" for the anti-vaccine crowd, and is now butthurt that he is being called out for his bullshit. He's also backed off of some of his earlier stances...probably for the same reason Jenny McCarthy did...it was costing him money. http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/03/is-dr-bob-sears-moving-away-from-his-profitable-anti-vaccine-pandering/ As for William Sears...he's the senior physician in a clinic with a known anti-vaxxer on his staff who also happens to be his son. Nope. He doesn't get a pass. ActusRhesus fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 18:30
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