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That refi deal sucks. Pass. edit: I'm assuming they will nail you with all kinds of early payoff penalties if you kept paying your same monthly payment. If not it could be okay but I'd still hold off.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:32
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Droo posted:If you are looking for good food storage containers, I really like the Pyrex storage bowls like these: SpelledBackwards posted:You said the lids weren't microwaveable; what do you do to cover the food while reheating it at work? Use a paper towel (BFC Approved option if work is paying for them)? E: Also I think CreditKarma had a SNAFU overnight. My TransUnion credit score listed on CK for the last 3mo just jumped by ~60pts... And it shows it went down for January, but a few days ago it showed ~60pts lower and an increase of a few pts from December.. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 06:21
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SiGmA_X posted:I am pretty sure you were just posting this to show "yay improvement is happening!" not that you're interested in this, right? That's what I got based on your other comments about waiting a few months. That refi deal sucks. You want to reduce interest and not reduce payment amount. You know this, though, and will shop around when the time comes. Yes pretty much just showing a little good news. I posted that wondering if BFC would advise me to look into it further, but I'm weary of refinancing based on a Credit Karma offer (unless it was a big well known bank or company). Plus I don't like the fact that you can't see the loan terms before hand. I wouldn't want to run a hard inquiry to see if there are early payoff penalties - although early payoff penalties I'm told are illegal now (region specific?), but I can't confirm online. As far as Credit Karma jumping up - I was thinking they may have changed the way the calculated scores. We'll see if numbers drop again though (my score went up about 20 points with the change). And yes agreed - that's a super shady way of showing "savings". I'm still aiming to refi through our credit union. At least the money stays local. E: Yes they updated the way they're calculating scores; you can see your old score here: https://www.creditkarma.com/myfinances/scores/transunion-archive and more info here: https://blog.creditkarma.com/credit-karma/credit-karma-is-transitioning-to-the-vantagescore-3-0-score-provided-by-transunion/ Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 17:34
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Humm I wonder how the score measures up to actual FICO scores. I got my FICO from Chase fall 2014 and spring 2014, and they were very close to the CK numbers. I like having a higher score, but is it for real. I'm guessing no. When you go about refinancing in the spring/summer, I'm curious what CK says vs what FICO/bank says. I doubt I'll have any need for pulling a real FICO score for a bit, so I am left wondering.
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Jan 23, 2015 21:59
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From a link on CK about why they changed scores: https://blog.creditkarma.com/credit-karma/credit-karma-is-transitioning-to-the-vantagescore-3-0-score-provided-by-transunion/ quote:This week, Credit Karma began to slowly roll out a beta website redesign, including a new type of credit score: the VantageScore 3.0 score provided by TransUnion. We want you to know why we believe these changes will deliver more value. Sorry for the derail but looks like it is legitimate. My score is 809 under this scheme 
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Jan 23, 2015 22:14
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Derail is kosher - this is a comedy forum/BFC/KG's thread! So am I reading that right that mortgage underwriting uses VantageScore vs FICO? I've seen so many people saying their CK score (VantageScore 2.0 at the time) was a fair amount higher than what their lender said their score was when getting a home or auto loan.... I'm not 'concerned' about my score at all - and the bump is fine hah - but I am curious as to who really uses Vantage and etc...
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Jan 24, 2015 00:49
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My bet is they get to use Vantage for a much smaller fee than FICO.
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Jan 24, 2015 04:18
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I'm reading Tuyop's thread from the beginning. I'm happy to see that 1) I don't have the most debt this forum has seen and helped with, and 2) that I'm not the only person BFC has yelled at trying to help. I didn't realize it was par for the course. My bad guys - I apologize for getting all upset about it. I'll try to take stuff a little less personally from here on out in the thread. Beyond that I see some parallels like us both being underwater on cars by the same amount (at the point I've read to obviously). I'm now intrigued to see what happens with that. I've read the part about his back injury, but I always skipped the beginning, and never really read past that except for the last couple of pages. Interesting. Amazon Prime is running out next month or in March, and we have no Costco card. Should I try to start an Amazon Prime pool like I did last year? I signed up and sold all of the spots for I think $15 or $25 a piece.
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Jan 25, 2015 08:21
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Ask the people who signed up if they want to re-up. Also get a Costco membership already. In the beginning everyone yelled at Tuyop to save up more money and pay off debt because nothing in his life was 100% secure especially his job. Then he tried to convince everyone his job is 100% secure no way nothing could happen to where he could get fired. Also from an outside view really pay attention to Tuyop's impulse control and understand you're at least as bad and probably worse.
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Jan 25, 2015 08:29
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 From CreditKarma. This doesn't include a few things in my wife's name like our personal grandma debt, but it does include the appendix surgery and miscellaneous bills related to that. The actual hospital bills are $22,431 in collections Non-hospital collections: $1,674 (all small accounts, $438 may be a hopsital bill it doesn't give much info) That debt figure includes these values. Obviously it doesn't include new ones that aren't reported to credit, like taxes. I'm not going to pay the hospital bills though. It's just too much money. It's not like I chose for my appendix to go out when I didn't have insurance, and it'll hurt more than it helps I think. E: ^ will do. I saw a couple people bringing up impulse control in the first couple of pages. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 08:30
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Knyteguy posted:
Remind me because I might have forgotten. You said your plan is to re-finance the car and I know you've posted in the past about how happy you are your credit score is going up. Are these hospital bills far enough in the past that they aren't going to affect either of these goals?
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Jan 25, 2015 08:39
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Knyteguy posted:I'm not going to pay the hospital bills though. It's just too much money. It's not like I chose for my appendix to go out when I didn't have insurance, and it'll hurt more than it helps I think. I'm not implying it should be the top priority (it shouldn't be), but just saying "I'm not going to pay it" seems a little too carefree, unless you're confident that you're protected from that sort of scenario.
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Jan 25, 2015 12:52
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How old is that medical debt?
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Jan 25, 2015 12:54
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After seeing that last updated post, and as someone who's about 2 months off being a father, I'm loving glad I live in a first world country with UHC, holy poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2015 13:19
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Knyteguy posted:
So you took out a $25,000-ish loan for a car that was worth far less than that, and that wasn't too much money, but something that actually saved your life, you don't think you should have to be responsible for? You really have no concept of priorities. You do realize that you can often negotiate medical bills down, and/or get on a payment plan?
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Jan 25, 2015 14:03
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It is definitely the right thing to do right now to make the medical debt the lowest priority. As people have said, this is an emergency, and triaging the medical debt makes sense. Looks like the appendix happened roughly 3 1/2 years ago. Posted Sep 3, 2014: Knyteguy posted:I also have more multiple medical bills in collections one being $22,000 when my appendix went out suddenly and I didn't have insurance. That was just 3 years ago. A quick google shows the statute for medical debt in Nevada is 6 years. April, you're right that he could probably pay a very small fraction of that. I worked as a debt collector for 4 years. Obviously I worked for one company in a different state, and I did credit cards not medical debt, so pile of salt, but here's what I'd do. We definitely would not sue someone for $20k. $50k (or really blatant poo poo like holding enough money to pay off the bill in our bank) was when we'd start considering it. Getting a judgement is really easy. Collecting on a judgement is what is hard. That said, smaller collection agencies are much more likely to sue for lower balances. I'd stay the course of what you're doing right now. Pay down your car, keep working on your emergency fund, etc. Don't contact anyone holding your debt (and definitely don't make or talk about payments to reage the account). Don't worry about the medical debt, but don't completely write it off in your head either. Just because a collector cannot sue you after the statute of limitations, doesn't mean they can't collect on it. They just can't sue (or threaten/imply in any way that they can/will) or demand payment. Granted, you have no legal obligation to pay at that point, but that doesn't mean they can't call and annoy you about it. Once you've solved the immediate emergencies (refinanced your car to a non-usurious rate, no longer underwater on it, stable emergency fund, no other debt), if the statute hasn't expired at that time, consider making a settlement fund to deal with the medical debt. Definitely consult with us at the time, because depending on when it happens, it might not be worth it (your credit score will temporarily go down when you settle very old debt, weirdly). It might be worth the peace of mind if you can settle it for a small amount. I'm using a lot of words to say very little. TLDR, keep doing what you're doing, but instead of 100% writing off your medical debt in your head, 75% write it off, and resolve to revisit the situation once you're more stable to make a final determination of what you're going to do.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:30
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Grumpwagon posted:We definitely would not sue someone for $20k. $50k (or really blatant poo poo like holding enough money to pay off the bill in our bank) was when we'd start considering it. Getting a judgement is really easy. Collecting on a judgement is what is hard. That said, smaller collection agencies are much more likely to sue for lower balances. I agree with most of what you said, and I'm not sure how long ago you were working as a debt collector, but I don't think "We wouldn't sue for $20k" applies much of anywhere these days. Maybe you just weren't exposed to that side of the business, though. I worked at a company that served processes all over the country, and a lot of the non-foreclosure work was debt collection in the $1k-$10k ballpark (a sad number of the debts at that level are engagement rings). And with foreclosure work drying up for the past few years, more companies are now looking at medical debt to fill the gap. I would not be at all surprised if KG's collection agency already got a judgment against him that he isn't aware of, and they're just waiting for his bank accounts to be in better shape before they proceed. We got tons of wage garnishment business along the lines of "Hey the statute of limitations on this is running out next week, so we need you to serve this TODAY."
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Jan 25, 2015 19:54
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Zanthia posted:I agree with most of what you said, and I'm not sure how long ago you were working as a debt collector, but I don't think "We wouldn't sue for $20k" applies much of anywhere these days. Maybe you just weren't exposed to that side of the business, though. I worked at a company that served processes all over the country, and a lot of the non-foreclosure work was debt collection in the $1k-$10k ballpark (a sad number of the debts at that level are engagement rings). And with foreclosure work drying up for the past few years, more companies are now looking at medical debt to fill the gap. Would that be a public record? Also how could I possible receive a judgement without a summon? That would be unethical as hell on the court's side. Here's what CreditKarma has to say about public records, but I'm not sure they're the same thing:  If they try to come at me with that medical debt, I'd think bankruptcy would be the ideal place to start. Medical bills are absurd in this country - insurance or not. I can deal with that when it's a choice like having the baby, but when I'm unemployed living in the worst unemployment county in the nation due to lovely national policy and stingy taxpayers don't want universal healthcare? I don't feel a moral obligation to pay that debt. Now that I have insurance and a job I'd choose to pay it, but there was a lot of stuff out of my control at that point. Unemployment was nearly 16% and every job I applied (hundreds) to seemed to have 100 applicants. Even the military was having trouble getting recruits in (I tried) (Navy, Air Force) because the economic down turn sent a lot of people that way. And for the majority of the time I've had that debt, we were bordering on poverty. So yea I'm not going to cry too many tears over not paying for profit health care when I had a life-threatening medical emergency. Making payments on it would hurt me because of the way collections work in this country, as Grumpwagon just mentioned. As far as the car goes, the car wasn't $26,000 itself. It was mostly the old loans that hurt us. I think the actual car was $21,000. It's a Corolla Eco (I need to double check the exact model, I'll do that tonight). It's actually a pretty nice car, and the gas mileage is great. If I could take it back I would in a heartbeat, but if we're stuck with a car at the moment, it's not a bad car to be stuck with.  It shows on my report as "closed" (god Credit Karma kicks rear end for good free info). Does that mean anything? There's a couple of accounts like that. E: the medical debt is from Sept 11, 2011 E2: $25000 is what we currently owe, the loan was higher than that by $1000-$1500. E3: But I'm open to input. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 20:27
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Knyteguy posted:Would that be a public record? Also how could I possible receive a judgement without a summon? That would be unethical as hell on the court's side. It isn't that you would receive a judgment without a summons; it's that you wouldn't have been informed of the summons and you would have failed to appear in court because you didn't know about it. If the debtor doesn't show up to defend him/herself, the company wins by default, so they're very motivated to make sure the debtor doesn't show. There are lots of laws that try to protect debtors from that behavior, but it still happens. Knyteguy posted:If they try to come at me with that medical debt, I'd think bankruptcy would be the ideal place to start. The fact that they aren't trying to collect on your debt is actually a sign to me that they consider you to be broke. Knyteguy posted:
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Jan 25, 2015 21:30
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Zanthia posted:Yeah, judgments against you would be public record. A court would issue a judgment, and then some company would collect that info from public record and sell it to the credit agencies, who then add it to your credit report. Thanks for the info. Can I hide assets from THEM at least (I wouldn't do this to a court)? Can they see my bank account, or do they use credit info? Should I buy a fireproof bolt down safe and store savings as cash? Should I take my name off the bank account and divorce my wife temporarily? (I'm joking). Should I try to settle with them? I loving hate that idea, but I'll do whatever it takes to save money. I'd take the gamble if it was less money, but that's nothing to sneeze at. If they're looking for a judgement against me, well I don't need to be a homeowner that quickly anyway.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:39
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I'm confused why you hate the idea of paying them what you owe. Either way it seems like you should just lay low and try to avoid it through the statute of limitations with it being 6 years.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:53
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Knyteguy posted:Can I hide assets from THEM at least (I wouldn't do this to a court)? Can they see my bank account, or do they use credit info? Should I buy a fireproof bolt down safe and store savings as cash? Should I take my name off the bank account and divorce my wife temporarily? (I'm joking). Should I try to settle with them? I loving hate that idea, but I'll do whatever it takes to save money. I'd take the gamble if it was less money, but that's nothing to sneeze at. Much less shady, yes they can pull your credit info because you owe them money. I think trying to settle with them when they aren't doing anything is a terrible idea. If I were in your shoes, I'd aggressively build up an "oh poo poo" fund, watch the mail and credit reports like a hawk, and hope they forgot. With the understanding that at any point in the next few years, a collection agency might suddenly take an interest in you.
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Jan 25, 2015 23:00
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Zanthia posted:I think trying to settle with them when they aren't doing anything is a terrible idea. If I were in your shoes, I'd aggressively build up an "oh poo poo" fund, watch the mail and credit reports like a hawk, and hope they forgot. With the understanding that at any point in the next few years, a collection agency might suddenly take an interest in you. I think this is a good plan on merits, and also because it makes sense even if they never contact you. I'd get refinanced and not underwater on the car before I did anything else (and it goes without saying a healthy birth for your wife and son even before that), but after that the next logical step is to build up your emergency fund. That fund could easily double as an "oh poo poo, the collectors finally called" fund. If they call, get their mailing address and hang up. Then (come talk to us, but if for whatever reason you don't do that) send a certified letter stating you have no knowledge of this account and need them to send you all paperwork, balances, applications, etc. If they're able to do that, you'll probably want to pay them, because that's enough information to sue. If they can't do that, we'll come up with an alternate plan. The agency I worked at was closely associated with the original lender, so we had motivations to be very not-shady. I'd take Zanthia's experiences as closer to your situation than my experiences, but it seems like Zanth and I agree on most things. I have no trouble believe judgments are occurring more often now than they did when I was a collector (2007-2011). Veskit posted:I'm confused why you hate the idea of paying them what you owe. Grumpwagon fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 23:23
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Veskit posted:I'm confused why you hate the idea of paying them what you owe. Whether somebody owes a hospital money they don't have because they got a life-saving appendicitis surgery is more of a social justice question, really
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Jan 25, 2015 23:26
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Thanks for the collections info. I'll take the advice and sit on it for now, and I'll definitely update the thread if something happens. OK I made some things. The data isn't perfect, but it's really close (it's a month behind or so at times, and it might be off by a couple hundred dollars at most in some places). The couple hundred in errors would be additive, not multiplicative however, so it should be close enough. I've included all the collections I can find data on (and some I just remember that have fallen off), and all the debt I can find.       This is the best tell-all total financial situation information I can come up with. Data used to make graphs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MPs-YnQUkv3q01nlOz1BMKfyKgzMluhQeo40dsEqX0Y/edit?usp=sharing Let me know if anyone wants anything else I have a couple empty months as well because my bank didn't have statements (?), but the next month reflects true values and the effect over time. January is technically incomplete and took a little guess work in regards to my wife's pay. (I guessed $750 for her last paycheck) I'll update this every few months, as I have all the data in Excel now, and the graphs update automatically when I add more data. E: Added another graph, debt vs money E2: Take January with a grain of salt because it's probably December + January, and each graph should be read independently. You guys are all awesome; thanks a lot for helping us get even to the point we're at. Here's to the next year! I'll do my best to make this one more successful. 
Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 23:43
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slap me silly posted:The checking balance is the wrong thing to look at, and from that info I have no idea what or how you're doing with your money. I said this before and it applies to all that stuff you just posted, too. Make a graph of your debt. Make a graph of the money in all your savings accounts. Those two things completely reveal your progress. Anything else is just pointlessly moving numbers from one column to another.
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Jan 25, 2015 23:55
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slap me silly posted:Whether somebody owes a hospital money they don't have because they got a life-saving appendicitis surgery is more of a social justice question, really I can't really argue what's right or not, but I think it's fair to say there was a tangible cost to save your life and it seems weird to me that you'd hate contributing a fair amount toward it. This doesn't hold up if you feel that it shouldn't have any cost, but if you do then hate is a strong word for paying what you owe. Grumpwagon posted:I totally understand your mindset Veskit. It's exactly how I felt before I worked collections, and its still usually how I feel. I think we can all agree (KG included) that ideally this would get paid. That said, we should be preparing for all contingencies, including the one where it makes the most sense for him not to pay it. In Knyte's shoes I'd straight up do whatever I could to not pay, but I wouldn't hate the idea of paying it. I hope the difference makes sense. Also I'm glad you worked for a good debt collector cause I'm dealing with some shady ones now and it is god drat frustrating and annoying.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:01
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Imagine that net worth graph if you can sell that Corolla in a year or two and buy something much cheaper. $4000 cars still have lots of life left in them.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:02
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slap me silly posted:I said this before and it applies to all that stuff you just posted, too. Make a graph of your debt. Make a graph of the money in all your savings accounts. Those two things completely reveal your progress. Anything else is just pointlessly moving numbers from one column to another. Well the debt I can definitely do, but I don't have good data for over-time savings. Instead of checking those graphs should just read "Total Money". We just have all of our money in one place, but use YNAB categories to differentiate. I tried to using multiple savings categories, but it just wasn't a good fit for me, partially because of the tedium of managing it through our Credit Union (which was awful, their system isn't very good). I should be able to transition to YNAB graphs exclusively soon, which should have the data you want to see though. It's just not complete enough to provide meaningful trends or anything at the moment. E: (Posted this to next post) Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 00:04
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Nocheez posted:Imagine that net worth graph if you can sell that Corolla in a year or two and buy something much cheaper. $4000 cars still have lots of life left in them. Yep I'd love that. Definitely the next goal. I didn't keep track of it, but the interest paid towards these loans has been astronomical, so it would really save us some money quickly. I'm not sure if I'm more disgusted by the amount of total money in interest we've paid so far, or the fact that we spent $8,000 in one month twice. (Though at least one of the times was moving out and using savings for our deposit). Added another graph above, debt vs total money by month.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:19
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Veskit posted:I'm confused why you hate the idea of paying them what you owe. I'm not saying he shouldn't try and settle the debt, but the way medical billing in this country works is total bullshit. If he had insurance, that $22,000 bill would probably end up at under $5,000 once the insurance company adjustments come into play. Medical insurance in this country is like paying protection money to the mafia - the system is so hosed up that you have to pay it, but it's not exactly fair or good for anybody.
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Jan 26, 2015 00:59
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Droo posted:I'm not saying he shouldn't try and settle the debt, but the way medical billing in this country works is total bullshit. If he had insurance, that $22,000 bill would probably end up at under $5,000 once the insurance company adjustments come into play. Medical insurance in this country is like paying protection money to the mafia - the system is so hosed up that you have to pay it, but it's not exactly fair or good for anybody. Yeah, our healthcare system is so hosed up that I don't really agree that he owes $20,000 for a relatively common medical procedure, nor do I believe that it really cost $20,000 for them to take it out and hold him in a bed for a day or two. The numbers our healthcare industry uses to price things is insane and completely divorced from how much it actually costs. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-appendix-surgery-costs-differ-around-us/
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Jan 26, 2015 04:08
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Yeah, even with insurance, anything medical is so expensive. I went to the ER for a minor issue a couple months ago, I was in for less than 2 hours, and it came to over $600. Yet when I had my ACL rebuilt several years ago I think that was about $1500. That pricing just seems off to me.
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Jan 26, 2015 05:14
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I've heard the same story with a friend of mine who was unemployed and uninsured and had an emergency appendectomy (I think) and the bill was really high. Makes me wonder if some places purposefully bill high if they know the patient is under/uninsured so they can sell it off to collections for less of a loss, but claim the amount on the P&L.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:12
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Medical billing is all over the map, but a lot of hospitals have need-based assistance - they can get a tax write-off for charity care. You have to contact and work with the billing department before it goes to collections, though. I would highly recommend people with a lot of medical debt fully explore reductions and payment options with their provider before letting it take you into bankruptcy or tank your credit score.
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Jan 26, 2015 06:45
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I agree with not feeling morally obligated to this one. It's just another case of it being more expensive to be poor. Insurance companies pay FAR less than sticker price. The U.S. healthcare system is obscene.
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Jan 26, 2015 07:58
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Been gone a week - amazing how many posts / b.s. there is to catch up on. Your family might get pissy about cheap gifts (which is totally WTF if they are adults) because on the surface - the new car / new place / etc you're doing great financially. Ironic because things are not going well. Why are you unable to track your spending from your credit union into mint? There is not excel export? You're a computer dude, I bet you can figure something out. If you want to be all analog about it, just start saving receipts and putting them into mint/excel/etc. What is your current budget? Have you been able to stick with a set amount of money spent per month for the past few months? It seems like the BFC threads can devolve into minutia very quickly. What is your monthly savings goal? Have you been meeting that goal? I don't understand why you keep worrying about the shell game portions of your budget. Why can't people discuss your total amount saved vs. total amount spent. If you come up with a reasonable number, who cares if you spend a little more on groceries one month vs. the other. When was the last time you looked at your budget on the macro level? I've ready every page of this thread, and I still have no real idea what your net incomes are and what you are trying to save per month.
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Jan 26, 2015 17:06
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Old Fart posted:I agree with not feeling morally obligated to this one. It's just another case of it being more expensive to be poor. Insurance companies pay FAR less than sticker price. The U.S. healthcare system is obscene. Couldn't you make the same case for the idiotic car loan he took out though? They allowed him to borrow way more than the value of the car at a predatory rate. Should he skip out on that bill as well?
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Jan 26, 2015 17:12
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April posted:Couldn't you make the same case for the idiotic car loan he took out though? They allowed him to borrow way more than the value of the car at a predatory rate. Should he skip out on that bill as well?
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Jan 26, 2015 17:37
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SiGmA_X posted:No. He had a choice there. Far different than a potentially lifesaving procedure. Medical care should both reward providers for expert skill, and provide a social service. In America, it rewards some of the providers and primarily the institution where the service is performed. The comparison of cost for the exact same service (say, overnight bed stay, or a round of Harvoni) in the USA vs Canada is obscene. Which is why there are options for reducing or eliminating medical debt for indigent patients. I'm not saying that the cost of medical care is in any way OK in this country, but something about "I don't like the price of this service I used, so I'm just not going to pay it" rubs me wrong.
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Jan 26, 2015 17:46
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