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I finally finished The Stand. Some thoughts: I really enjoyed the character development that happened throughout. The collapse of civilization was gripping to read and it did get a little slow during the middle like you guys said it would. There are a few characters I wish Stephen King had explored more: The Rat Man, Randall Flagg (seriously), and the "normals" of Las Vegas - especially the kids. I also wish King had spent some time talking about cleaning out Boulder and all the horrible poo poo that was found there. The church scene was alright, but what about supermarkets and office towers and even the homes? The "shuttered tombs" line got dragged to death. I can see how the climax is open to interpretation regarding the Hand of God. I'm going to side with the "not a literal hand" camp, where the Las Vegas people and Flagg brought it on themselves/himself through cocky overpower with a healthy dose of spiritual guidance. Though I don't know why the four Free Zoners had to go to Vegas if Trashcan Man was just going to bring the nuke back anyway and cause the explosion. He had no idea they were in town, he was out in the desert. The very end was also sort of silly. Island peoples? What? It felt like the sort of tacked-on ending lame horror films have.
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Jan 26, 2015 08:41
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Damo posted:Wow dude, talk about being condescending. I made it through reading all the poo poo you wrote in your post, so based on that I think I'm pretty patient. Good for you. There is no accounting for taste. If you think I'm being condescending because Black House starts out slow, then, here: You can like it or lump it. I only explained one particular device Straub uses to good effect. Not patient enough to enjoy it? Not your style? I give zero fucks, and you are perfectly free to disagree. Ok? Good.
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Jan 26, 2015 09:42
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Dr. Faustus posted:Good for you. You're a dick, a very weird dick.
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Jan 26, 2015 14:34
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ExtraNoise posted:I finally finished The Stand. You are 100% right about the lameness of the last chapter. It was as if King had to hammer the home the point that the battle between good and evil is cyclical and will never end. We get that from the ambiguous ending, which (in the shorter, original version) was Stu and Franny talking. That left it beautifully open ended. The original Stand had both a better beginning (the car crashing at the gas station) and ending (Stu and Franny talking) than the long version. While I think the longer version has some advantages, in terms of narrative and pace the shorter version is superior. King himself did the editing first time round and he got it just right (I mean, I know the transition between parts 2 and 3 is rather rushed, but I mean in terms of working with the novel he had written King did a good job with the first edit, considering he was asked to cut a fair amount). If I had to "fan edit" The Stand, I would have the long version minus opening and closing chapters, and I would revert to the 1978 setting (1990? why???). I might cut a few of the added passages later but those first points really grate. Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 26, 2015 18:34
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Ariza posted:You're a dick, a very weird dick.
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Jan 26, 2015 18:55
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Black House is worse than Song of Susannah and Gerald's Game combined. The biggest insult I can find. Getting into the home stretch of a re-listen to the DT series. Man, is that narrator change harsh as gently caress in book 5. (Yes I know why) Still, I like them both. Someday I should probably listen to the new recording of the Gunslinger, but I as a rule dislike special editions. Song made me slightly less angry than it did the first time around. I still think it has the problem where it just feels like leftover business to set up the final novel, without any narrative focus of its own. With some much needed editing the final 3 could have been 2. I still think the golden sneeches returning in book 7, particularly the second time, is the single greatest mistake in the series. I'm still a big fan of most of what goes on in book 7. But most of the real world references that were fresh at the time already feel distant a mere decade on. Granted SK is known for his timely reference which date his books, but they're usually not so central to the plot. 9/11, harry potter, and king's own accident don't have the punch needed anymore that they're designed to have. One question I have, is any death in a SK story ever a surprise, or does he literally always tell you in advance? I can think of a suicide in The Regulators that seemed very sudden and had nothing leading to it. But I know in the Stand, It, and Dark Tower (my most recent rereads) he always tells you when someone is about to die.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:14
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Wait, doesn't the cut edition remove the "No Great Loss" chapter? That's like the best part of the book.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:50
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GreyPowerVan posted:Wait, doesn't the cut edition remove the "No Great Loss" chapter? That's like the best part of the book. Best thing he's ever written. If it got cut, that's a great loss indeed.
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Jan 26, 2015 19:54
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ConfusedUs posted:Best thing he's ever written. I was asking because I haven't read the edited version, but I thought that was near the start of the book so... Anyone?
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Jan 26, 2015 19:56
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ExtraNoise posted:
Because Trash doesn't cause the explosion. Flagg does, when he invokes his little fireball to melt Whitney's face off. If they don't go, then they don't get captured, Flagg doesn't summon his followers to witness the execution, Whitney doesn't speak out against it. Instead of the fireball manifesting as the hand of god and setting off the nuke Trash shows up with, we'd have some other ending that doesn't invoke the superficial and lazy theology of God as Chess Player, and Abigail would just be some crazy old biddy instead of a divine prophet. I mean, a *real* God could just blow up Vegas on his own and incinerate everyone there, kids included, in a burst of holy fire, but the god that King writes about is much smaller and punier.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:00
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rypakal posted:Black House is worse than Song of Susannah and Gerald's Game combined. The biggest insult I can find.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:07
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Phanatic posted:Because Trash doesn't cause the explosion. Flagg does, when he invokes his little fireball to melt Whitney's face off. If they don't go, then they don't get captured, Flagg doesn't summon his followers to witness the execution, Whitney doesn't speak out against it. Instead of the fireball manifesting as the hand of god and setting off the nuke Trash shows up with, we'd have some other ending that doesn't invoke the superficial and lazy theology of God as Chess Player, and Abigail would just be some crazy old biddy instead of a divine prophet. I mean, a *real* God could just blow up Vegas on his own and incinerate everyone there, kids included, in a burst of holy fire, but the god that King writes about is much smaller and punier. I think this captures the end of the Stand pretty well. As I mentioned before, the Stand is his major work that I least liked, and a good part of it is that it has a very superficial theology. But as superficial as that theology is, it is still not just "literal hand of god as deus ex machina."
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Jan 26, 2015 20:12
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Phanatic posted:Because Trash doesn't cause the explosion. Flagg does, when he invokes his little fireball to melt Whitney's face off. If they don't go, then they don't get captured, Flagg doesn't summon his followers to witness the execution, Whitney doesn't speak out against it. Instead of the fireball manifesting as the hand of god and setting off the nuke Trash shows up with, we'd have some other ending that doesn't invoke the superficial and lazy theology of God as Chess Player, and Abigail would just be some crazy old biddy instead of a divine prophet. I mean, a *real* God could just blow up Vegas on his own and incinerate everyone there, kids included, in a burst of holy fire, but the god that King writes about is much smaller and punier. I think my only qualm is that everyone in Vegas was totally obliterated whether they were gathered or not. The nuke was SO large that Stu felt its heat from over at least six hours away (by car travel). I got the impression the nuke was bound to go off regardless of a magic fireball. That being said, your explanation makes a lot of sense and pretty much clarifies things. Thanks. Edit: GreyPowerVan posted:Wait, doesn't the cut edition remove the "No Great Loss" chapter? That's like the best part of the book. I got to this chapter after everyone here had built it up and was a little disappointed. I thought it was good, but I was expecting more. Something more visceral or heart-wrenching. Something.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:17
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GreyPowerVan posted:Wait, doesn't the cut edition remove the "No Great Loss" chapter? That's like the best part of the book. I really can't be sure. It's been about 20 years since I read the short version. I think it was either shorter or cut. Some goon will have a copy to check.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:36
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ExtraNoise posted:I think my only qualm is that everyone in Vegas was totally obliterated whether they were gathered or not. The nuke was SO large that Stu felt its heat from over at least six hours away (by car travel). I got the impression the nuke was bound to go off regardless of a magic fireball. Yeah, but if they don't gather to gawk at what will no doubt be a stirringly brutal execution, then Whitney, one of the dissidents, doesn't speak out against Flagg and draw his wrath, so there's no face-melting. It's Whitney's speech about how "This isn't how Americans behave! We resort to more human methods of execution, like the electric chair, or smothering with cushions!" that provokes flag to summon the fireball, and it's that summoning that winds up setting off the bomb. Absent that, there's just a bomb sitting there in a trailer, no reason for it to go off. Granted, Flagg's little ball of fire suddenly turning all big and hand-shaped and making a beeline for the bomb isn't much of a "reason" either.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:45
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Phanatic posted:Because Trash doesn't cause the explosion. Flagg does, when he invokes his little fireball to melt Whitney's face off. If they don't go, then they don't get captured, Flagg doesn't summon his followers to witness the execution, Whitney doesn't speak out against it. Instead of the fireball manifesting as the hand of god and setting off the nuke Trash shows up with, we'd have some other ending that doesn't invoke the superficial and lazy theology of God as Chess Player, and Abigail would just be some crazy old biddy instead of a divine prophet. I mean, a *real* God could just blow up Vegas on his own and incinerate everyone there, kids included, in a burst of holy fire, but the god that King writes about is much smaller and punier. Ignoring later books, Flagg is pretty obviously a divine servant sent to test the people who survive superflu in The Stand. God activates him specifically to force a choice on the survivors- will they stay with the old world, or abandon it for something new? By making their stand against Flagg and rejecting the old world, they pass the test, and God annihilates them for it. But mankind is allowed to survive.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:46
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Effectronica posted:Ignoring later books, Flagg is pretty obviously a divine servant sent to test the people who survive superflu in The Stand. God activates him specifically to force a choice on the survivors- will they stay with the old world, or abandon it for something new? By making their stand against Flagg and rejecting the old world, they pass the test, and God annihilates them for it. But mankind is allowed to survive. That doesn't even work unless you ignore the extended re-release. Unless God's such a dick that even beyond annihilating most of the population of the developed world, he then decides that he's going to send Flagg to some random rain forest tribe to test them as well, even though they're still perfectly happy with their old world and don't seem eager to abandon it. And with that idea in mind, doesn't _The Stand_ seem so provincially American? About the only things we know about the non-American parts of the world is that, whoops, they got infected too so their populations crashed. But nobody in Russia or Europe got dreams about Abigail. No Cuban hopped on a raft to make his way to Nebraska. What with all the border guards being dead, it'd be easier than usual for Mexicans et al to walk North Across the border, but God's apparently not interested in their choice re: the old world vs. something new. I'm bored at work.
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Jan 26, 2015 20:53
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Phanatic posted:That doesn't even work unless you ignore the extended re-release. Unless God's such a dick that even beyond annihilating most of the population of the developed world, he then decides that he's going to send Flagg to some random rain forest tribe to test them as well, even though they're still perfectly happy with their old world and don't seem eager to abandon it. I inferred that Flagg's reappearance was meant to be occurring at a different, maybe much earlier point in time. But it's been a long time and maybe King did explicitly say that it was still the post-Trips world.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:02
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Phanatic posted:That doesn't even work unless you ignore the extended re-release. Unless God's such a dick that even beyond annihilating most of the population of the developed world, he then decides that he's going to send Flagg to some random rain forest tribe to test them as well, even though they're still perfectly happy with their old world and don't seem eager to abandon it. That's clearly a different world, and a different test. It even tells you what the test is going to be when he says he's going to teach them civilization. It's the only thing that makes sense with him suddenly getting magic when Captain Trips gets loose, and losing his magic when people refuse to be intimidated by him. King explicitly wrote it as an attempt at an American Lord of the Rings, so I don't know why you're surprised. If you like, you can figure the rest of the world, not being condemned by a cruel God, got back on their feet.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:15
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Dr. Faustus posted:I think that is incredibly harsh and undeserved. Black House was quite a slog to get through. I skimmed quite a bit of it and I don;t normally do that with any book.
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Jan 26, 2015 21:33
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:I really can't be sure. It's been about 20 years since I read the short version. I think it was either shorter or cut. Some goon will have a copy to check. Doing some comparisons with phrases from Google book search to my cut copy, I can confirm the "no great loss" chapter is gone. In the uncut version, Chapter 37 ends with "But it was a long time before he could get back to sleep." That line concludes Chapter 29 in the cut version. Chapter 30 of the cut version starts with "Lloyd Henreid was down on his knees." That's Chapter 39 in the uncut version. Chapter 38 was the "no great loss" chapter.
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Jan 27, 2015 04:34
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Effectronica posted:That's clearly a different world, and a different test. It even tells you what the test is going to be when he says he's going to teach them civilization. It's the only thing that makes sense with him suddenly getting magic when Captain Trips gets loose, and losing his magic when people refuse to be intimidated by him.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:00
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I finished Revival a little bit ago, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It was a great life story for sure, but it felt like my creeping dread (what little there was) didn't really pan out. At least not in a way I find particularly horrifying.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:32
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I don't want to start a war here, but since a few goons mentioned Straub recently, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on Ghost Story or Floating Dragon for my next read. I've never read any of Straub's stuff before.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:35
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WattsvilleBlues posted:I don't want to start a war here, but since a few goons mentioned Straub recently, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on Ghost Story or Floating Dragon for my next read. I've never read any of Straub's stuff before. Ask Dr. Faustis. He has very strong opinions about Peter Straub. Me? I've found Straub hard to read but, admittedly, I was very young when I tried. I've been reading Lisey's Story, which everyone here seems to hate, but 150 pages in so far I think it's OK. The phonetic writing is a tad grating and over the top but the story itself so far is compelling.
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Jan 28, 2015 00:58
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Someone needs to start a Straub thread to get this poo poo out of here. Edit: Not genuine recommendations for what to read. The forum drama poo poo.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Ask Dr. Faustis. He has very strong opinions about Peter Straub. Me? I've found Straub hard to read but, admittedly, I was very young when I tried. Read Shadowland. It's like The Talisman,, but scarier. Then read Floating Dragon. It will gently caress you up. (so will the end of Shadowland.) Look how strong my opinions of Peter Straub are! ExtraNoise posted:Someone needs to start a Straub thread to get this poo poo out of here.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:35
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Dude if you can't tell you're being a giant dick in comparison to the standard tone of the book barn posting you are one dense weirdo. Just chill out man. Or take it to gibbis.
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Jan 28, 2015 04:59
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i do think it's funny that people make fun of koontz's inevitable ADORABLE DOG CHARACTERS but give king a pass for his equally consistent use of Magical Indigo Children, but koontz is absolutely 100% poo poo at writing anything apart from dogs, so yuo can't blame him for including them whenever possible
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Jan 28, 2015 05:03
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joepinetree posted:Speaking of other authors, anyone with recommendations for recent horror books? I enjoyed Cutter's The Troop someone mentioned a few months ago here, and like the first 2/3s of Cronin's The Passage (but was seriously annoyed by the twelve). Cutter actually just had another book called The Deep come out and it looks awesome. I'm definitely gonna read it soon. Adam Nevill's Last Days is one of my favorite recentish horror novels. It's about a 60s hippie cult gone bad and was very dark and creepy. Talmonis posted:I finished Revival a little bit ago, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. It was a great life story for sure, but it felt like my creeping dread (what little there was) didn't really pan out. At least not in a way I find particularly horrifying. I had the same reaction basically. I think for me it might have been because the book started out so dark, what with the Rev's family getting wiped out in that brutally described car crash after becoming attached to them in the book's first act and none of the other horror-type stuff that happened after that came close to matching the dread of that one scene for me.
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Jan 28, 2015 05:37
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savinhill posted:I had the same reaction basically. I think for me it might have been because the book started out so dark, what with the Rev's family getting wiped out in that brutally described car crash after becoming attached to them in the book's first act and none of the other horror-type stuff that happened after that came close to matching the dread of that one scene for me. Yeah, as the father of a toddler, that scene shook me up pretty good. Had to put the book down for a day or so. What the Rev was screaming there isn't something I want to think about ever again. Sometimes King is really good at plain old human grief and emotional pain as a horror device. Nothing else in that book came close to it.
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Jan 28, 2015 06:12
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Dr. Faustus posted:I think that is incredibly harsh and undeserved. An opinion is not "undeserved". Nothing "deserves" a good opinion. And yes it's harsh, but I hated Black House with a seething passion. Gerald's game is his most awful book on thematic grounds, but Black House is worse to me because it's tied to the Talisman, one of his best. e: and song of susannah is his most unnecessary book. Take the three final dark tower books and trim them down to two. No great loss. e2: No great loss is indeed cut from the original Stand. rypakal fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 15:19
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corn in the bible posted:i do think it's funny that people make fun of koontz's inevitable ADORABLE DOG CHARACTERS but give king a pass for his equally consistent use of Magical Indigo Children, but koontz is absolutely 100% poo poo at writing anything apart from dogs, so yuo can't blame him for including them whenever possible The only book of Koontz's I like was Intensity and it was the first one I ever read by him. It suckered me into thinking he was good and I wasted time reading 3 or 4 more of his before I came to the conclusion that he sucks.
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Jan 28, 2015 16:54
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I liked the first 75% of phantoms.
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Jan 28, 2015 17:30
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If anyone REALLY likes Salems Lot and wants to throw money at King - Super deluxe limited edition version Special Features For This Deluxe Special Edition: • an introduction by Stephen King • an afterword by Clive Barker • many deleted scenes that were cut from the original manuscript • the short stories “Jerusalem’s Lot” and “One for the Road” • deluxe oversized design (7 inches X 10 inches) featuring two color interior printing as part of the page design • printed on a heavy interior specialty paper stock that is much thicker than the paper in a normal trade edition • epic wrap-around full color dust jacket artwork by David Palumbo • a different full color dust jacket for the Numbered Artist Edition painted by David Palumbo • full color interior paintings by David Palumbo • interior artwork will be printed on a heavy glossy stock and tipped into the book • an original map of the town drawn by Glenn Chadbourne exclusively for this special edition • signature sheet artwork for all three editions by Glenn Chadbourne • high-quality endpapers and fine bindings • an exclusive reproduction of the first reader’s letter to point out the Father “Cody” error and several internal memos from Doubleday about changing the pricing after the first edition of the book was already printed • extremely collectible print run that is a tiny fraction of the TENS OF MILLIONS of copies of this novel you’ve seen in bookstores over the years!
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Jan 28, 2015 18:02
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$95 regular edition in slipcase (3,000 copies) $250 signed and numbered by artist edition in traycase (presumably they mean "clamshell") (150 copies) $1,250 signed and numbered etc by Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 18:27
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Note that none of those editions are signed by King. Based on Carrie , though, it's going to be a lovely book.
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Jan 28, 2015 19:04
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Most of this content seems similar to the Illustration Edition released a few years ago. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Salemslottrade.jpg
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Jan 28, 2015 19:25
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What would you guys say is King's most underrated book? Based on this thread, I'd say Cujo, Gerald's Game and Rose Madder. Also, is it mainly the phonetic spelling in Lisey's Story that most bothers people about it (because it is a pain in the rear end to parse) or is there some other thing in it I'm going to be crushed by?
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Jan 28, 2015 19:39
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BiggerBoat posted:What would you guys say is King's most underrated book? Based on this thread, I'd say Cujo, Gerald's Game and Rose Madder. I've never felt the desire to read Rose Madder, though I thought Cujo was fantastic. What would you recommend about it?
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Jan 28, 2015 19:55
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