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pig slut lisa posted:I'll also point out that what makes the guy "feel like the 1%" is Owning A Thing, rather than Having Any Financial Security. Yep. The whole idea of possessions as "status symbols" is nonsense in the age of cheap and available credit. You didn't create it, you just bought it. Anyone with a credit card can do that, and almost anyone can get a credit card. That's true when it's a guy with a $1400 red Burberry coat or a "paycheck to paycheck" guy buying a $2500 gaming PC.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:21
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Haifisch posted:This isn't a case of "he spent more than $100 on a computer? I do believe I have the vapours." It's a case of "it would take minimal thought to get an acceptable level of gaming power for $1000 or less." Check out the SHSC PC building/part picking thread for sane price ranges relative to power. Note that their range for high-end gaming ends at $1500. No. I get it. He could get a cheaper rig. I'd still think all this noise was pretty silly even if he was spending the money on novelty duck turds. He's saving a little bit at a time over long periods so he can have something he wants. Nail Rat posted:It's no more weird than your stupid white knighting I feel like that's not true. Anne Whateley posted:If you've ever been at that level, you'd know $24/week is a huge chunk of your budget. Like your entire grocery budget. I've been very poor. I grew up very poor by any first-world standard. I've been out of work for a year, and am once again poor. I also have friends who live "paycheck to paycheck" on six figures because their kids just have to go to some particular school, or they insist on leasing new cars every two years, or they are unwilling to move to another neighborhood, or live in a smaller place. Some of them are even smart about filling up their retirement accounts. They complain constantly about being broke, and not having the means to do (even more) things they want or need to do. None of them are in any danger of being homeless, or being unable to feed their children. I couldn't even get rice and ramen for a week with $24 where I am. Edit: Barry posted:Higher earners with more unnecessary expenditures can weather the storm a bit better to be sure That was my point. The people I mentioned all say they are living paycheck-to-paycheck, but in reality they are just spending everything they earn. Sure, they're sunk if they become long-term unemployed, but the story wasn't about an unemployed guy buying expensive gaming rigs. Nail Rat posted:Yet somehow you flew off into the above rant and you don't think that's weird No, I think it's a hyperbolic but not-incorrect piece of moderately creative writing. Thanks to your quote, I re-read it, and I am pleased to say my initial analysis holds up. Centripetal Horse fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 18:22
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Centripetal Horse posted:They complain constantly about being broke, and not having the means to do (even more) things they want or need to do. None of them are in any danger of being homeless, or being unable to feed their children. We'll see how well that holds true if they ever have any long term unemployment. When you're living paycheck to paycheck (or some close approximation of that) and you don't get that paycheck, how do you pay the bills? Higher earners with more unnecessary expenditures can weather the storm a bit better to be sure but even so it's only a matter of time before you're pulling up stakes and moving to some crappy apartment because there's nothing left to pay the mortgage.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:28
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Centripetal Horse posted:I feel like that's not true. You got offended enough that we thought spending a used car worth every 4 years on gaming PCs while paycheck to paycheck with a kid was bad with money that you posted a ridiculous strawman where supposedly we hate anyone buying anything for gaming, period. quote:You might not know which thread you're in. This is the thread where people come to throw their hands up and decry the disgusting wastefulness of a man who saves $20 per week for his one entertainment indulgence. Then they work out on their Bowflex machines so they have the upper-body strength to crank the spinning rims on their cars before they roll out for their twenty-third consecutive restaurant meal. That was not what anyone was saying at all and plenty of people were advocating buying a 1-1.5k machine which last I checked is still nonessential. Yet somehow you flew off into the above rant and you don't think that's weird 
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Jan 27, 2015 18:30
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Centripetal Horse posted:You can't spend a dime on anything but second-hand shoes and day-old bread unless you have thirty-six months of living expenses saved up, fully-funded college accounts for all of your present children, as well as any theoretical children you may or may not have in the future, and enough retirement savings to found a dynasty. Agree 
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Jan 27, 2015 18:39
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Maybe Centripetal Horse can take a cue from a previous discussion in this thread about needlessly overpaying for performance:Centripetal Horse posted:No vacuum cleaner is worth $2K+ unless you're prepping your summer mansion for a spread in House Beautiful. That said, Kirbys (at least the old ones, I've heard mixed reviews in the last few of years) are actually pretty drat fantastic. If I were going to spend a brain-cancerously large amount of money on a vacuum cleaner, it would probably be a Kirby.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:40
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I'm in NY for my grandfather's funeral, staying with my family. I'm still on California time and slept in pretty late, but I woke up when I heard the doorbell. By the time I walked downstairs, I heard my dad finishing a negotiation with a dude. I peek out the window and it's a guy shoveling walkways. I laugh and said I know I was asleep, but he could have woken me up to go do it. He replied, "You would have saved me a hundred dollars if you were awake." I think my jaw hit the floor. This is not a large house. There's a 2-car driveway and a walkway, and it's a corner lot so there are two sidewalks, but honestly not too much. They finished in under an hour. His wife (remarried, owns another house) then said, "I usually give my guys $150 every time they come, wether there's two inches or two feet. They come every time it snows!" Make it a little sweeter and I'd fly out from California for the winter.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:40
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blugu64 posted:Agree People pay for day old bread? I get all my day old bread for free from my neighbor who's currently helping to remodel a bakery. The bakery's owner gives him all the day old and reject bread and bagels. He takes what he wants and gives me the rest
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Jan 27, 2015 18:41
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Inverse Icarus posted:I'm in NY for my grandfather's funeral, staying with my family. I'm still on California time and slept in pretty late, but I woke up when I heard the doorbell. By the time I walked downstairs, I heard my dad finishing a negotiation with a dude. I peek out the window and it's a guy shoveling walkways. God drat I am in the wrong line of work.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:45
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Inverse Icarus posted:I'm in NY for my grandfather's funeral, staying with my family. I'm still on California time and slept in pretty late, but I woke up when I heard the doorbell. By the time I walked downstairs, I heard my dad finishing a negotiation with a dude. I peek out the window and it's a guy shoveling walkways.  When I was a kid, I made pocket change shoveling all my neighbor's sidewalks for $20 a pop. Then I never collected the money because it was really easy and I was going to do it anyway even if they refused. I figured that since they were too old to do it themselves and someone had to do it, and I was outside holding a shovel, I might as well. I still do this, and it's why I will never be a successful business owner. Seriously, especially if he's in New York, there has to be some kid somewhere who will do it for a lot less.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:46
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blugu64 posted:Agree Fair enough, but Renegret seems to have an even more cost-effective system. pig slut lisa posted:Maybe Centripetal Horse can take a cue from a previous discussion in this thread about needlessly overpaying for performance: If I said that - and I am not admitting I did - I would point out that if someone's hobby is building vacuum cleaners, they are getting more for their money than just the raw performance. I would also point out that I* didn't get all haughty about what heels people with $2,000 vacuums are. * allegedly Nail Rat posted:It's completely incorrect I feel like that's not true. vv I thought it was pretty clear that I was just funning about not having said that. I really thought the "* allegedly" would seal it. Centripetal Horse fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 18:53
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Centripetal Horse posted:If I said that - and I am not admitting I did -  What on earth do you mean by this. I quoted one of your previous posts from this very thread.
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Jan 27, 2015 18:59
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Renegret posted:When I was a kid, I made pocket change shoveling all my neighbor's sidewalks for $20 a pop. Then I never collected the money because it was really easy and I was going to do it anyway even if they refused. I figured that since they were too old to do it themselves and someone had to do it, and I was outside holding a shovel, I might as well. Growing up my brother and I both did this. Most of our older neighbors thanked us with candy or homemade cake/treats, and the younger ones would kick us $10-$20. Now it seems like there are gangs of roving adult shovelers being handed hundreds of dollars. My sister also did not think this was odd. Inverse Icarus fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 18:59
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Centripetal Horse posted:No, I think it's a hyperbolic but not-incorrect piece of moderately creative writing. Thanks to your quote, I re-read it, and I am pleased to say my initial analysis holds up. It's completely incorrect because literally zero people said he shouldn't buy gaming PCs, just that he's being very irresponsible when he could have a lot of money saved for not really losing anything out of his childrens' hobby (that I also have).
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Jan 27, 2015 19:00
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Inverse Icarus posted:I'm in NY for my grandfather's funeral, staying with my family. I'm still on California time and slept in pretty late, but I woke up when I heard the doorbell. By the time I walked downstairs, I heard my dad finishing a negotiation with a dude. I peek out the window and it's a guy shoveling walkways. A guy I worked with told me at his previous company, they got a bill for a weekend of snow clearing after a big storm for six figures. It was for the parking lot/sidewalks of a manufacturing facility with attached offices that had maybe 800 people using the building. I always said that my retirement job was going to be starting a snow removal company in Massachusetts and make six figures working two weekends a year.
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Jan 27, 2015 19:21
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Was about to engage in a debate about smart spending with Centripetal Horse Checked Rap sheet first Only have one thing to say "Drop It"
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Jan 27, 2015 19:28
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pig slut lisa posted:
Admitting to account sharing is a bannable offense and getting banned is bad with yadda yadda yadda you guys and gals get it Inverse Icarus posted:Growing up my brother and I both did this. Most of our older neighbors thanked us with candy or homemade cake/treats, and the younger ones would kick us $10-$20. Now it seems like there are gangs of roving adult shovelers being handed hundreds of dollars. It did pay off in the long run though. I had to do a bunch of community service for assorted school related things, and I had years of free snow shoveling in my back pocket. I was able to get those old folks to sign off on ten hours of service for twenty minutes of work. e2: canyoneer posted:A guy I worked with told me at his previous company, they got a bill for a weekend of snow clearing after a big storm for six figures. It was for the parking lot/sidewalks of a manufacturing facility with attached offices that had maybe 800 people using the building. I'm at work right now, and spent my lunch break watching the guys plow the parking lot. Six figures sounds like a lot, but there's at least two dozen guys and too many trucks, snow blowers, and bobcats working that I can imagine it being a hefty bill. There's a lot of space to clear. Fuckers plowed in my car though 
Renegret fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Jan 27, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 19:33
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e: double post
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Jan 27, 2015 19:36
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Now they're turning on a gas fireplace on the other side of the house in a room without humans in it so the dogs can "stay warm." The house is 70 degrees.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:41
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Knyteguy posted:My brother-in-law and sister-in-law came into a decent sum of windfall money (~$15,000) a few weeks ago, and they've been going nuts with it. Update: They bought all new furniture, some new appliances (a new fridge I think), booked a trip to Hawaii in December, and booked a trip to Disneyland in June. They also bought a new car, bringing their car total to 3, and he wants to buy a truck now. And that's after they got a car repoed just around 6 months ago. It's making my head spin. Her job is a caretaker for an elderly woman at night. I'm guessing she makes about $400/wk. He's ex-military (E-5 or E-6) with a bonafide PTSD diagnosis (so I think 80% of pay grade per month) which is taxable income.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:12
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Knyteguy posted:Update: New furniture might be ok but could be unnecessary. A new fridge is often a good idea as a good selection can save power (unless they have bought a giant feature packed one). Why would they need 3 cars and a truck? That's just stupid. I've often looked at the financial situation of people who can't make their payments and they have multiple vehicles for no reason with an overextended mortgage. Are they financing all of their vehicles?
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Jan 27, 2015 23:20
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Devian666 posted:New furniture might be ok but could be unnecessary. A new fridge is often a good idea as a good selection can save power (unless they have bought a giant feature packed one). Why would they need 3 cars and a truck? That's just stupid. I've often looked at the financial situation of people who can't make their payments and they have multiple vehicles for no reason with an overextended mortgage. Are they financing all of their vehicles? Furniture is mostly unnecessary. They had really nice modern style couches, a nice tv stand, and well a kind of crappy dining room table (which they gave to us so that was cool). All of that has been replaced. The dining room table could be justified I suppose. He also just bought a new 60" HDTV, which he's trying to sell now because he wants a 4K. I'm almost certain they finance their vehicles. I dunno; they're not spending the maximum amount possible on stuff, but a bunch of it is just really unnecessary. I can see where they're coming from because they've been broke for so long, but the rate at which they're spending, and the stuff they feel the need to replace is crazy to me. e: trimmed the message down a little bit. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 27, 2015 23:33
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Devian666 posted:Why would they need 3 cars and a truck? That's just stupid. Look at this newb whose never heard of truck equity. There's probably research on why certain people hoard cars. Status symbol? Fear of a car breaking down with no backup? Poor people in some countries take the bus or ride a bike. White poor people in the US pick which Chevy they're going to drive today.
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Jan 28, 2015 00:47
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/ This family is this thread. 1.3 million in debt due to asking friends at their scammy Nigerian church in DC every time they have a financial question/issue. Some of the stuff they did is really, really dumb.
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Jan 28, 2015 02:30
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Knyteguy posted:Furniture is mostly unnecessary. They had really nice modern style couches, a nice tv stand, and well a kind of crappy dining room table (which they gave to us so that was cool). All of that has been replaced. The dining room table could be justified I suppose. How can they finance more cars with a recent repo?
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Jan 28, 2015 02:50
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laxbro posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/ Holy poo poo. Can they declare bankruptcy or no due to their relatively high earnings?
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Jan 28, 2015 02:58
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:How can they finance more cars with a recent repo?  The rent-to-own model exists in the used car world, too. Sell a car to somebody who just tripped over or scraped together some cash (bad credit? no problem! they specialize in working with good people with bad credit!), repo it when they inevitably can't make the payments, and flip it to somebody else.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:00
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Space Gopher posted:
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Jan 28, 2015 03:02
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laxbro posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/ Jesus Christ, this IS this thread, especially the part where the wife took out almost $100K in student loans while the family was nearly a million dollars in debt on a $100K combined annual income because "that's what you do in America".
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Jan 28, 2015 03:18
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laxbro posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/ On one hand I feel bad for anyone caught up in the mortgage bubble, on the other hand they make $100k and have been freeloading in a custom built $600k house for six years
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Jan 28, 2015 03:25
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Cicero posted:Yeah, right in the middle of reading this: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2015/01/26/investment-riches-built-on-auto-loans-to-poor/ Believe it or not, those loans are a cut above the typical products from a buy-here-pay-here lot. The loans described in the article are nasty, but if they're securitized, there's at least some assumption that the borrower will hopefully pay back the loan. The really scummy BHPH lots - the ones that are only too happy to extend credit to people who have just had their last car repo'd - look at repossessions as just part of doing business. Instead of auctioning off a repo to recoup costs like a bank, they'll just take it back and sell it again. The LA Times did a good piece on the business practices of buy-here-pay-here lots a few years ago. California actually put some consumer protections into place as a response, but of course, they didn't pass anything like a cap on interest rates. Having to squeak by on 17% over prime would have been just too burdensome to these hard-working small businesses, I guess. LA Times posted:Because Buy Here Pay Here businesses are both auto dealers and consumer lenders, it's not always clear who has authority over them. As always, it's expensive to be poor.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:32
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Thinking about the 2-4 car ownership thing. I wonder how many people are underwater on their car payments so when they need a newer more reliable car they just buy a new one because they can't sell the old one. e: This ties into it being expensive to be poor.
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Jan 28, 2015 03:36
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I'm a special ed teacher, and one of the para-eds (classroom support staff) was asking me today about how student loans and such work. She's 23/24, just had a baby in November… She mentioned she was thinking of taking out extra student loans out to pay off her car, and I asked what the interest rate on her car is. 24%. I about poo poo my pants. She also filed for bankruptcy last year. Oh, girl. 
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Jan 28, 2015 04:06
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I would direct her towards some decent informational sources if she wants some advice on money management. Don't let her end up like the people on r/personalfinance, some of those stories are awful to read when the person is at fault for never being taught some basics of finance. Just like the Best Buy $2k Credit "winner".
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Jan 28, 2015 04:40
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I know that buy here pay heres are scummy, but I didn't think that their repo/resell method was illegal, which is what that excerpt makes it sound like. Or is that just because the payment structure is designed for them to fail?
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Jan 28, 2015 07:18
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The impression I got was that it's not illegal, just so exploitative that it probably should be. Of course, it's debatable whether that's actually a good outcome or not.
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Jan 28, 2015 07:22
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:On one hand I feel bad for anyone caught up in the mortgage bubble, on the other hand they make $100k and have been freeloading in a custom built $600k house for six years They also evicted a tenant who wouldn't pay rent, which is the moment when I actually face-palmed. Still, how the hell anyone offered them that loan in the first place is just beyond belief. This loving country.
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Jan 28, 2015 07:42
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laxbro posted:http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/ Okay, I'm going to highlight some of the crazy poo poo this family did. I've been with this thread since the beginning and this is the craziest story I've seen so far. Here's the highlights. - In the article every single one of their major financial decisions is made based on advice or recommendations from friends at their Nigerian/Ghanian Church in DC. - 1.3 million in total debt. - Bought a $600,000 house on a $100k a year salary. They put a down payment of $60,000 which they got from refinancing on their townhouse. - Decided to rent out their townhouse instead of selling it. Obviously the renter they found didn't pay rent so they started the eviction process which took months. - Super predatory loan for their $600k house which ballooned after the first year. - The husband lost his job while the house was still being built. They could have walked away and just lost 20,000 in a down payment. Nope. Decided to lie and tell their lenders he was still employed. He eventually got a job again months later. - Various high interest loans were taken out to pay the mortgage. - The wife took out two separate $20,000 loans in the husband's name to buy Mary Kay MLM poo poo. The husband knew about the first one. She took the second loan out with telling him. - Over $100k in student loans for the wife to get a undergrad and graduate degree. - Paid $10's of thousands of dollars to a lawyer to help them fight the eviction process. Lawyer didn't do poo poo, and wasn't even allowed to legally practice law in their state. - Still living in the house somehow, probably because the bank owns too many of the houses in that neighborhood already and doesn't want to devalue them even more by making it a ghost neighborhood. - Wife contemplates moving back to Ghana to escape the debt. I'm sure there's more that I have forgotten. I'm not joking when the article prefaces every bad decision they make with them going to their Nigerian church friends for advice. Of course at the end of the article the family says that they don't blame the church friends, God does everything for a reason. grenada fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jan 28, 2015 |
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Jan 28, 2015 13:57
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Can't they just declare bankruptcy for most of that debt? Also, a small question on the whole 2008 mortgage debacle: were payments for mortgages not constant or something? IE: Why did people suddenly stop being able to pay their mortgages? Or was that due to the massive loss of employment that accompanied the whole deal?
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Jan 28, 2015 14:26
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1) That story is even more amazing given all those lending discrimination stats. That family is clearly Black Loan Dollars Georg. 2) The part about how they've been living in their $600k house with no payments for six years, but they tried to evict the condo renter after three months -- that is literally a Bible story. Like could not be any more accurate.
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Jan 28, 2015 14:33
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i like nice words